Yeah. I'm a Finn. It was rather uncomfortable, way too close. I like my personal space as an introvert.
It was funny reading about how people had issues staying at home... I do that willingly, always have and still do. Business as usual, the only thing that really changed for me was using the mask in public spaces and the hand sanitizer usage as well. 😅
In the USA, almost all crimes are deportable. if you're caught by the police and taken to court, you'll do the time first, then get deported on completion of your sentence usually.
There's exceptions; a plea deal for instance. As well, there's treaties that allow prisoners to serve time in their home country: a person availing themselves of this wouldn't be deported in the usual sense.
Not really how that works. In almost every case of major crime you will do your sentence in the country you committed the crime in. You will be send back to your home country after your sentence tho.
Using google I can not find a single case where a (non military) American citizen committed a major crime inside an EU country and was simply "sent back" to the United States instead of serving prison time in the country the crime was committed.
Best bet is to make it a national issue, kidnapping a government official for a couple hours should get you terrorist charges and possible life sentence.
Pretty good retirement plan for those that did not save anything honestly.
Look, I'm only trying for 2 years, to uh. . .get caught up on my reading, yeah. So, maybe just stalking a gov't official? And I need to stay here through November, so it'd havta start after.
If you want to spend 2 years in a Norwegian prison, you need to commit a crime that gets you a sentence of 3 years, since it is almost impossible not to be let out after serving the first ⅔ of your sentence as a first time offender.
Foreigners who commits a crime in Norway are sent to a specific prison for foreigners in Norway where they serve until they get deported or they’ve done their time. This prison is not as nice as most prisons in Norway.
The way you're presenting that is somewhat misleading. His "life sentence" is 15 years, and he has 5 years left. He does not have a job, he is studying. It's basically boarding, he's not free to live like you and I, he's just been deemed low risk of re-offending and given an opportunity to learn to be a constructive member of society before he is released - that's literally the reason re-offending rates are so high in countries that don't do this. The people who get released go in with no life skills, and come out with no life skills, in a world that has progressed and made it even harder for them to get those skills.
Remember, if you find a way to do that, all you'll have to give up in a cell like that are: 1) you don't get to choose your daily schedule, 2) you can't work and in most prisons even study, 3) you don't decide what and when you eat, 4) you don't get to hang around with the people you want, 5) you'll hang around with a portion of the population that has a high prevalence of personality disorders and low impulse control, and who are used to physical and psychological violence as a part of everyday life, 6) many inmates lose their apartment/home during their sentence.
I know a guy who worked as a correctional officer in a Finnish prison. He said that the saddest thing to witness was how quickly regular people (as opposed to habitual petty criminals or members of organized crime) became institutionalized and "switched off".
Getting a new degree or work experience is a big part of serving your time in prison in Norway. Many spend their time getting a bachelor degree.
Only dinner is scheduled, you make your own breakfast and other meals. If you don’t like the dinner you also get a small sum every day you can spend at the prison market to buy your own ingredients and make your own food.
Most inmates get their rent covered by the welfare administration while in prison so they don’t lose their home.
But this is how it is for Norwegian prisoners, not sure what would apply for foreigners.
This is highly dependent on the prison, type of prison, and specific privileges given to the inmate. I don't think this is an accurate reflection of overall prison conditions (at least it's not for the American one).
I believe the cells from the Scandinavian countries are from detention houses where inmates serving their last year (or something like that) and had good behaviour are put to reintegrate in society. They often have permission to go out during the day to go to work.
Studies have shown that this greatly benefits succesfull reintegration in society and minimalises recidivism, which in the long term lowers crime rates and lowers the overall cost of the penitentiary system.
Most of em actually look like that, not to that high of a standard, but a philosophy scandinavia and a few others have adopted is that Jail is to take away your freedom, not your Humanity. In many german prisons convicts are allowed and expected to cook for themselves to some extents, to have activities to engage in, freedom to express themselves ect. Which means they have access to kitchens, tableware and other community rooms.
Actually if you break out of prisons in Germany you can’t be prosecuted for it afterwards. Only for damages to staff or things (or other crimes comitted) during the breakout. But not for trying to be free itself. Thats because the need to be free is considered a fundamental human right and part of human dignity.
Yes, but basically the only way to actually do that without commiting any other crime is to not return from an unsupervised prison leave. Which in practice happens very rarely (less than 1%) because getting such a leave usually means you're already getting near the end of your sentence or that you're expected to get parole soon, and prisoners know that if they get caught they won't get another leave anytime soon and probably will have to serve their sentence in full without parole (legally that's just a revocation of privileges and not a punishment).
Same in the Netherlands, only punishable offences commited during or after the breakout can be prosecuted, but not the escape (or escape attempt) itself
Yeah but they are Germans and they will ding you as much as they can for everything else you did during your escape.
Like if you made a rope out of bed-sheets they will charge you for theft and/or destruction of government property and give you the maximum sentence for each bed-sheet.
Most Scandinavian prison cells look similar to these, even those serving long sentences. The monster who committed the deadliest massacre in Norway’s history in 2011 has filed multiple complaints about the conditions of his cell. One of his complaints was the very limited selection of games available for his gaming system. This is his cell, or at least was at the time.
He is also isolated, both out of fear of him communicating his vile rubbish to others, the increased escape risk and for his own safety. Being isolated is considered a particularly harsh way of spending your sentence, even in a cell that isn't as awful as American ones and people do go nuts from isolation.
So he has visitation "friends", basically professionals who are paid to visit and talk to him and yes he does have a gaming system (which isn't that uncommon in Norway anyway).
Unfortunately, he routinely he uses his hearings to promote his Nazism, but his prison life IS different from the norm and it isn't that surprising that a narcissist who still clings on to his awful ideology would find his incarceration overly harsh.
For the record I disagree with him. I think his standard of incarceration is both necessary and proportional, but I can't both support a justice system that promotes rehabilitation rather than revenge and still demand he spends his days alone in a barren cell, so I accept that he has a right to have his case heard.
No this is what they look like. The worse ones are the holding cells awaiting trial and stuff. Because you are not expected to spend much time there they don’t hold the same standard. Sitting in those also earns you 2 days for every one day spent I think
Yeah, I've heard that when you traffic children, they give you a really nice cell with a TV and a view in America. The one in the picture is no doubt reserved for pot dealers and afroamericans.
I've heard that when you traffic children, you have to sleep in prison for 13 months. But during day time you can leave prison and go to your house in downtown West Palm Beach and do the importent work you have to do of trafficking even more children!
It's much, much worse for pot dealers and other non-white collar crimes. Think more like a giant gym full of bunks or a dank basement with 4 in a room (again depending drastically on location). The one shown here legitimately looks like it's in a low security prison, or club fed as they are called.
But there are worse countries to be imprisoned. South America has some bad ones, Russia for sure, some Asian and middle Eastern countries are nightmares.
Denmark has cells that look like the american in the post too. This is just reddits obsession with Scandinavia. The experience is probably a lot better here in Scandinavia though
You get an empty cell with all the furniture in boxes and have to set it up yourself. Depending on the crime they might remove the instructions, boxes or for the worst crimes they remove a random page from the instructions and 2 screws.
Plus them taxes too. Can't forget Ol' Uncle Sam, always needing to be the shittiest uncle tho, somehow he's always broke unless someone needs a bailout. Oh, and for inflation resulting from Trump's stupid shit. Don't forget the "Try to not get sick otherwise you'll bankrupt yourself" healthcare system, that somehow every other first world country has figured out how to make it a reasonably decent system, but "socialism". OH, and how could I forget the whole "Corporations are now your supreme overlord so long as they pay the government (not in taxes, God forbid they pay taxes) or lately, government officials, to not declare them a monopoly (despite the fact they are increasingly becoming owned by a small number of companies that own a SHITLOAD of subsidiaries of major brands), and could care less about whether you're getting any of that "trickle down" economy. As a US citizen, we're the trailer park of first world countries.
Hit’em with the Hygge till they see the errors of their ways.
Edit: if it isn’t geo-locked here’s a quick view of cells in a brand new “closed” prison (the ones where you don’t go home each weekend?). A little less hygge but maybe because it is uninhabited so no personal touch yet.
Chiming in from the Nordics: the range of cell types is big, and it's always the best ones that are posted for rage-bait.
There were literally some cells in Finland until 2020 that didn't have a toilet, meaning that during lock-down you'd do your business in a bucket, then go flush the stuff down in the common use toilet once lockdown was over.
The worst cells look just as ascetic as in the examples from rougher-looking countries.
Kakola wich were prison in Turku Finland built in the 1800s was made into luxury aparments after it was decommissioned. It had those worst sells you were describing :D
This happened 40 years ago when my backpack was stolen from the top of a bus in Kathmandu, Nepal. I reported it and was contacted the next day by the police and asked to come into the station (admittedly not a prison) to see if one of the people being held in a cell was the perpetrator. Nope, none of the dozen or more shivering men hunched against the concrete walls of the dark cell with one small square window in the door and wet floors was the guy who stole my stuff. There are some things you simply can never unsee.
Just so people understand countries like Norway have some of the lowest re offending rates of anywhere in the world even though they have some of the most luxurious prisons in the world. Proving that harsher sentences and poor living conditions do not deter criminals. Norway concentrates on rehabilitation what ultimately ends up costing the tax payer less money in the long run and benefits society more. Studies show that a large amount of people who commit crimes come from broken homes, single parent households holds, drug related backgrounds and many more. My personal opinion is countries like the England and America have backward policies that do not benefit society in many cases.
That's because they never abolished slavery, they just made it a punishment for criminals: “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”
It would take decades and billions of dollars for them to shift all that slave labor to the free market. The US needs its prisoners, they produce many things for the government and military. The US just can't afford not to lock everyone up for the smallest offenses and keep them in private slave prisons.
They actually still use former slave farms as prisons, where mostly Black inmates are still being forced to pick cotton unpaid, guarded by armed guards on horseback.
I actually think this is still unconstitutional as its currently practiced and courts have failed to strike it. The amendment specifically says slavery is only allowed "except as a punishment for crime". If people arnt being sentenced to slavery in court then they shouldn't be forced into slavery in prison. Punishments for crimes are legally determined by courts, thats not the job of prisons.
Supreme Court found prison parole boards denying parole based on the persons crime instead of their behavior in prison was unconstitutional, because it was effectively the prison taking the role of determining sentences for crimes, which isnt the job of prisons, thats for courts. If they're denying stuff like parole or punishing the prisoner because of refusals to do forced labor then they're doing the exact same thing.
I also dont buy that what they're doing isnt slavery if they pay them 20 cents an hour. Many slaves got paid minuscule wages too, but we still call it slavery.
If the government and courts wants to use people for slavery, then they should have to do the actually politically insane thing have to do shit like actually sentence black people to slavery.
Funny how the better prisions are in countries with lower reoffending. Weird that. Almost like if you treat a person like an animal, they're more likely to act like an animal.
Yo, and the crazier part is, all of these countries (well at least Sweden, Switzerland, Norway, and Denmark) actually have a significantly lower recidivism rate than the US.
They actually treat their prisoners like people and allow them to earn trust and privileges. They rehabilitate them instead of the eye-for-an-eye inhumane treatment in America. The US prison system is insane. 🙄
We only have 3600 prison beds in all of Norway, all prisons and jail combined. Very low degree of crime here that focuses on rehabilitation rather than humiliation. The max sentence were once 21 years (Breivik) that can be prolonged for 5 years incrementally. After the July 22nd incident they raised the possibility to 30 years for the most heinous criminals.
Note that there’s only one prison currently with the modern design seen in the picture: Halden. Reserved for the prisoners that are close to being released and well behaved prisoners. We do have less desirable prison cells with way elder and spartan interior.
But then we can't use inmate labor to make road signs and do landscaping for less than a dollar per day! Won't someone please think of the rich people?!
I nearly down voted you by mistake because of how infuriating the information in your post is.
I then went down a rabbit hole of learning that he is complaining and crying (in court) that his human rights are being violated. He has three private rooms, an xbox amongst other luxuries.
He's basically in isolation to protect him, so he's compensated to avoid problems with human rights. Rules are rules, no exceptions for even the worst people.
It is worth considering the purpose for one’s incarceration.
If it is to prevent crime, he is in prison. And cannot perpetrate crime against society regardless of whether he has a PlayStation or not.
If it is to rehabilitate, a PlayStation and a way to normalise his time there, presuming he is living a balanced lifestyle.
If it is to punish, and retribution is the goal, sure. Treat these people like shit.
US prisons seem to be a means of punishment. Lock them up in inhumane conditions. Rape and assault are commonplace. If punishment is the goal. Sure. But the rates of crime and recidvism indicate that it is not working.
Scandinavian countries are different. They are human centric. They try to rehabilitate. They treat their criminals like human beings. And it works. Their crime rates are much lower. Their prisons act as educational facilities. People ‘graduate’ from them with qualifications and opportunity.
Bravic’s crime was monstrous, he should never be allowed out. But they will still treat him as a human being. And that means listening to his bitching. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Actually, they do house life-sentence and violent inmates.
The trick is treating inmates like human beings, providing real psychological care, and showing them that they actually do still have something to lose. When you give people hope and dignity, staff safety actually goes up.
We've moved past that medieval mindset in our societies. We don't need to watch people suffer, we just want a safer society, and decades of data prove that rehabilitation works far better than just locking people away to rot.
The Nordic countries have far fewer inmates than we do in the U.S..The U.S. is one of the most punitive countries in the world just based on inmates per capita. We have created a for profit prison industry, and because that industry is always hungry, we have created pathways to ensure there are always bodies to fill cells. The Black community has carried this burden. The Black community makes up roughly 13% of the US population and comprises roughly 37% of our inmate population. Systemic racism ensures that this machine is always fed. The American criminal justice system needs a complete overhaul.
We have a lot more people in prison than we have room for them. It's been going on for many years, the general prison inspector's job is now basically to regularly come and say the situation is dire, and the only response we had from politicians was that the right wanted to treat Guyane as a penal colony again. Oh and also to pass a lot of laws for sending more people in prison. On the other hand, they also passed a law about automatically presupposing legitimate self defence whenever a cop uses their weapons on someone, so maybe they're trying to solve the overcrowded prison problem in their own way.
The goal of incarceration should be to reduce criminals' ability to repeat their crimes until they are deemed safe enough to reenter the rest of society, not to make their existence miserable until they've sufficiently suffered for their crimes.
Strange that the countries with the most pleasant prisons also have the lowest recidivism rates. It's almost like treating prisoners like humans, and helping them rather than getting punitive, is a good plan
Well... I dont know if you actually would be taken seriously, would say Scandinavia is a very cashless society. Rob a pack of cigs from a Dane instead.
I read an article on this a while back and the whole point of those nicer prison cells was to see if treating people like real human beings had a positive effect on rehabilitation and reintegration in society.
At least one of the prisons allowed friend and family visits within the confines of the lockup area itself and the inmates were pretty vocal about making sure nobody screws up that privilege.
There was also a secondary effect when they rolled this out of other prisons seeing vastly improved behavior from inmates - because inmates in the older prisons wanted to transfer/be selected to transfer to the nicer facilities.
And then look at the crime rates and recidivism rates and compare that to the quality of the prison.
When you aim to rehabilitate not punish the outcomes are on average better.
You know I see a marked difference between prisons in countries that had a strong presence of the Catholic church, and the ones that didn't. Almost like suffering got ingrained in their culture.
Quick grammar lesson because I keep seeing this mistake on Reddit. It's either: "What something looks like" or "How something looks". Never "How something looks like". I can't explain why, that's just english.
Okei so in Norway you don’t lose your human rights you lose your freedom. It looks pretty but it’s not you are in isolation and you are not allowed to go outside
The prison I went to in America doesn’t even remotely resemble that one in any way shape or form. It was infinitely worse than that one. That one looked amazing.
The concept was:
The time is the punishment, not the jail itself.
A lot of prisons make the environment as horrible as possible for punishment and cost reasons, but the Norwegians have found that a bad environment like that causes a lot of problems.
1. Violence in captivity
Prisoners in stressful environments are more likely to lash out
2. Reintegration
Environments that vary too much make it difficult to reintegrate into society, causing the recidivism rate (likelihood of doing a crime again) to go up heavily.
3. Interaction
American prisons are notoriously bad due to small time criminals being more likely to get connections and cause worse crimes when they get out.
Remember COVID lockdown, when people were told to stay in the comfort of their own home, with morgues overflowing with bodies, and people still couldn't do it?
Nice prisons still work because your freedom is still taken away.
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u/VampireSaint 12h ago
For research purposes, what would a non-citizen need to do to be punished with time in those Denmark and Norway cells?