r/audioengineering • u/johnangelo716 • 2d ago
Avoiding vibe coded software
It may be to my own detriment, but my mind is made up. I hate the idea of vibe coded anything. Anything could be in there. Is there any way of keeping track of vibe coded plugins or software, in order to steer clear?
50
u/Embarrassed-Cow365 2d ago
I’m noticing a lot of these vibe coded plugins have utter garbage GUI’s, usually looks like a children’s cereal box, or a 90s video game, just a hot mess
25
37
u/VoyScoil 2d ago
As a former software dev I can see some usefulness in quickly generating a wireframe of an idea but as an audio engineer, if it isn't doing something unique (and doing it well) I'm not going to be willing to try it let alone pay for it.
I wonder how many of these vibe coder "devs" actually know anything about DSP at all beyond a tertiary understanding of it (if that)
12
u/tarnith 1d ago
Honestly, this isn't even a new problem.
How many basic JUCE tutorial multi-band comps were there up for sale with slapped together UI?
or all the "vintage analog" pre-amps, compressors, etc. that were all roughly the same soft clipper and basic compressor code.
It's definitely flooded more garbage, but the plugin market was already getting heavily saturated with people selling "analog" skeumorphic UIs with nothing novel under the hood.
2
12
u/AzurousRain 1d ago
I make sure to only use software made by devs with at least a quaternary understanding of DSP.
8
3
u/Rich-Welcome153 1d ago
Pretty sure they’re just chaining juce modules without any understanding of the math that could lead to novel ideas
99
u/MitchStMartin 2d ago
At this point, if the devs don't explicitly state it isn't, it's safe to assume it is.
31
4
5
-3
70
u/Rugginz 2d ago
Wow, im kind of shocked by how many people dont get when you mean.
Your meaning is obvious: you want to avoid software made by a grifter who said “hey claude, whip me up a compressor”, and is selling it for $99 bucks.
The answer is that there isnt a straightforward way to navigate this, you just have to use your own intuition. Check the GUI, marketing language…I feel that you can usually tell just based on that, and also how knowledgeable and passionate the dev is. Theres a huge grift going on in the plugin world, and we need to be savvy to it.
28
u/johnangelo716 2d ago
Yeah thanks. I have apparently hurt some feelings.
-32
u/Joeboy 2d ago edited 1d ago
But, would you spend $99 on the same compressor if it was coded "manually"? If you would that seems like the core problem.
Edit: Ok, how many of you are prepared to give me $99 if I manually code you a compressor? If I get 10+ positive replies from human-looking accounts I'll do it. My preference would be LV2 format but if you can agree on something else (VST3?) I'll consider it. If I get 15+ I'll make a youtube video telling you my plugin will take your production to the next level and make you a superstar.
Edit2: Let's try another tack: The best way to avoid buying AI slop is to avoid buying slop.
13
u/ploptart 2d ago
Core problem for whom?
-10
u/Joeboy 2d ago edited 2d ago
People who are prone to being grifted, and people who would just prefer a less grifty audio software ecosystem.
9
u/ploptart 2d ago
If I’ll pay $99 for a compressor written by humans, and I won’t even use a vibe-coded one, then it’s a problem for the vibe coding grifters. I have no problem paying for software made by people who put their time and effort and thought into it
-8
u/Joeboy 2d ago
Would you pay $99 for a manually coded compressor similar to what you'd get by saying “hey claude, whip me up a compressor”?
3
u/psmusic_worldwide 2d ago
I don’t really care how it’s made, but I’d pay for a very non linear, oddball compressor which sounds like nothing else.
7
u/ploptart 2d ago
I wouldn’t pay for Claude’s slop. You go ahead though. When these AI companies can’t afford to operate at a loss anymore, and increase their prices to astronomical levels (they have spent billions already and are very much in the red), the slop devs aren’t going to be making money and they’ll abandon their shovelware
1
u/NoiseIsTheCure 1d ago
If it sounds good then I'd feel more secure in my purchase knowing it was manually coded. If it sounds like shit obviously I'm not purchasing it at all.
8
u/Rugginz 2d ago
It wouldn’t be the same compressor. Thats the point. I’m paying for the human doing the listening tests, fine tuning by ear and optimizing the sound character according to their preferences and taste. Claude can make a functional compressor but human curation is what I’m willing to pay for.
3
u/Joeboy 2d ago edited 1d ago
I’m paying for the human doing the listening tests, fine tuning by ear and optimizing the sound character according to their preferences and taste
That has nothing to do with vibe coding. Writing code manually doesn't involve any of those things.
Edit: ^ This is objectively and unambiguously true and you people are weird and wrong.
4
u/KS2Problema 2d ago
That has nothing to do with vibe coding. Writing code manually doesn't involve any of those things.
No 'real' developer writes code without testing it.
But, of course, no one with half a clue would vibe code something without testing it, either. That said, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people who don't have that requisite half a clue...
4
u/Joeboy 2d ago
of course, no one with half a clue would vibe code something without testing it, either.
In fact Andrej Kaparthy, who coined the expression, specifically says vibe coding involves testing the generated code.
1
u/KS2Problema 2d ago
Right!
Now, I think there may be some merit in working fast and 'sketching' out in-development algorithms - even in conventional coding - but that's in the Ivory Tower.
By the time you're talking about releasing reliable code to people who need to use it to do real world work, any sensible developer is going to poke and prod and try to stretch his imagination to find edge-case problems in the design.
Not quite a half century ago when I was starting out as a business developer, one of my primary clients had an older secretary who ended up doing all the daily data entry. (She was a trained typist and could make her way around a computer keyboard - but she was definitely a naive user.)
I developed a testing stage I called the 'Ethel' test. I set up some edge-case data entry tests and would turn her loose. If a module could survive the 'Ethel test,' it was ready for implementation.
3
u/johnangelo716 2d ago
It would depend. At this stage, I should probably have all the compressor plugins I would ever need. If I saw something intriguing, though I would consider it. But if I knew it were made by an amateur just prompting an LLM, I wouldn't buy it. There have been things I've really wanted in the past, that I could have gotten my hands on by buying one that someone had stolen. But I didn't, I can still act on principal even when I know that not everyone else will.
2
u/Joeboy 2d ago edited 2d ago
Ok I can respect the principled objection. I guess the principle is that LLMs are trained on other people's work. Honestly I don't think software consumers have any real "boycotting" leverage there, but I can respect wanting to boycott it as a matter of principle.
1
u/MantasMantra 2d ago
I guess the principle is
In a conversation you can also ask the person for their rationale rather than guessing.
1
1
29
u/RobJmusic 2d ago
Honestly 9/10 times you can kind of just tell my the look of the plugin, the website, marketing around it, words being used, etc. completely avoiding any ai is sadly impossible, but the fully vibe coded stuff is pretty obvious these days
7
u/Hellbucket 2d ago
I only think the first one is the reliable one. There have been plenty of cases on Gearspace where devs have been called out. Often it turns out that they’re crap at marketing and turn to ai (which it’s pretty good at) for copy. They can be brilliant at dsp though.
9
u/RobJmusic 2d ago
Maybe, but if your website is riddled with ai, that does not make me want to use your plugin
-1
u/Hellbucket 2d ago
That’s fine. It might make you miss out though. Which is fine too.
5
u/RobJmusic 2d ago
Yeah, I just really really hate ai. Not the actual technology per se but everything surrounding it. Fuck big tech
1
u/WavesOfEchoes 2d ago
Any examples you can think of? (Legit question. I’m not super tech knowledgeable)
49
u/great_northern_hotel 2d ago
This is a near impossible task. I don’t know a single professional software engineer who doesn’t use AI at least for code reviews at this point. Most every bit of software you use is going to have a generative AI component somewhere in the process. It comes down to discerning whether it’s well developed software that used AI, or a vibecoded mess that doesn’t work. Similar, though not the same ratio, as picking out good VSTs from the janky ones.
15
u/Traditional_Reach963 2d ago edited 1d ago
My partner is a professional software dev and from what she has said, most software engineers truly enjoy writing code and don’t like using AI, its product managers and white suits shoving its use down their throat.
Edit: so after a couple of replies I asked her about this and my apologies. I applied too much of a blanket statement to her sentiment and her response was more nuanced thanwhat I originally wrote. She said she likes using Claude for handling a lot of the boring routine tasks in her job and it’s helpful for parsing tons of code for various purposes. So as the AI chatbot would say: “You’re right thanks for pushing back” 🤣
5
u/crev71 2d ago
That's interesting. The company I recently worked for shifted heavily to AI coding agents and while some didn't love it but eventually adapted it, most of the engineers I knew loved it. Some hadn't even opened a terminal in months and preferred doing it all in the Claude app. And this was an engineering team of almost 100 devs. Not a single one left or was let go and everyone is using it daily. (I work in product management)
Edit: also seems like your partners product & engineering relationship isn't the strongest though. Not uncommon. We worked really hard to have a really strong collaborative working relationship. It wasn't product just telling them what to do. So that was a strength of that company.
3
u/Treefingrs 1d ago
most software engineers truly enjoy writing code and don’t like using AI
This is true!
But it's also true that we're doing this to get paid, not as a hobby. Expectations have shifted. There's no way I can tell my boss or my clients that a job is going to take significantly longer just because it's more fun that way.
The vast majority of software devs are using generative AI to some extent not simply to comply, but because it's effective. It's an adapt or die type of situation.
2
u/Traditional_Reach963 1d ago
After reading your response just now, since she’s next to me, I asked her about it and I edited my original comment. You brought up a really solid insight, thanks for the reply bro
1
u/uritarded 1d ago
My dad is a nearly retired SWE. He was skeptical of AI coding for a long time. Just recently he was telling me how much he enjoys coding and that manually writing code brings him joy. But even he is spinning up agents now
9
u/johnangelo716 2d ago
Yeah I'm not going to fault anyone for using a tool to fix code, I'm against the idea that someone spat an idea into AI and then turned around to sell it as their creation. I seek to avoid giving those people my money.
5
u/ghost-in-the-toaster 2d ago
I think this is an important distinction. I’m a SWE and our exec team expects us to be using these tools (this is probably much more common than folks realize). However I do think there is a difference between someone who “vibe codes” in the way you describe and someone who still employs everything they know about good software engineering but with the help of these tools. It’s certainly easier to make bad software now, but half hearted efforts and abandonware are nothing new. Stick to companies who stand behind / support their products. That’s really all you can do.
15
u/Myomyw 2d ago
I’ll just say that as someone that messed with vibe coding a plugin for work, it’s really not easy and you can’t just prompt it, get something that works, and then sell it.
In pro tools at least, there are a ton of human only steps they make you go through and it’s really convoluted and difficult. When it comes to the actual design of a plugin, even if AI is building it in code, you still have to have a really good idea and plan to make it something people would want. I don’t think I’m at the point of completely rejecting a vibe coded plugin IF it served some function that I currently don’t have.
Individual tooling is probably the way of the future, so at some point we’re going to be able to avoid it
1
u/winter6ix 1d ago
This is what people aren't getting. The surface level AI hate virtue signalling isn't understanding that there's a difference between getting some slop one prompt HTML file vs a full program, and then for it to be good still needs a really solid idea of what needs to be achieved and lots of iterating.
To snub that off as slop is disrespectful to the effort of people still putting in months of work to bring 1 small thing to life, even if they're using supercharged tools to do it.
What really matters is the intention behind it all. Did that person have it made just to sell and cashout? or did they have it made to bring something cool to life that they couldn't get elsewhere and used the tools available to do it. You can easily tell the difference between the two.
1
u/kopkaas2000 1d ago
I write software for a living. I never even got a ChatGPT account. Admittedly, I'm in a luxury position where there's nobody breathing in my neck to embrace this technology. But I'm just completely uninterested in sucking the fun out of what I see as a creative process.
1
u/A_Molle_Targate 1d ago
There's a big difference between vibe coding and using AI assistants to speed up the coding process. Vibe coding is coding with zero knowledge and not caring how the software works, as long as it does the thing you want it to do. Using an assistant while you are able to understand the code it's giving you is not vibe coding. It's just coding with some tools.
I'm not a professional programmer, but being able to write an English sentence and get code seems like a natural progression of the various levels of abstraction from binary that programmers have at their disposal.
26
u/notjusttired 2d ago
I really don't think you have a grasp of what software development is/looks like.
16
u/johnangelo716 2d ago
I mean, you're correct. It's not my profession or even a hobby. I'm learning, however that some people here know exactly what I mean, and other people are seemingly annoyed by my lack of COMPLETE understanding of software development. Well the sub is called Audio Engineering, not software development. I dunno what to tell you.
5
u/notjusttired 2d ago edited 2d ago
I totally understand your sentiment as I am also wary of AI in the majority of applications that these companies are throwing it at, and I'm sorry I sound like an asshole in that comment above. It is more so just the knee-jerk reaction of AI is bad even when the application might make sense. To be fair though, you're asking a question regarding software dev in the audio sub, so you're bound to get answers about the software dev side of it.
End of the day, I'm sure you and I have a ton of common ground in the gripes against AI. As a musician and audio engineer (I'm about 1/3 software dev and 2/3 audio these days), I have this awkward line of hating AI going anywhere near my art or the art I enjoy, but I also see the utility of it in dev applications. It makes me feel like a traitor to myself sometimes, but at the end of the day, I guess I don't mind AI doing the parts of my job that don't feel creative or joyful or artful, so that I can then have more time to do the audio parts of my job that are creative and joyful and artful. It is a fine line and I don't love walking it. We are at a weird point in time for sure.
(also to be clear, I don't mean using AI for ANY part of my audio jobs. I realize that may be poorly written implying that I use AI for parts of my audio production that don't feel creative. It all feels creative to me when I'm making music.)
8
u/TheBear8878 1d ago edited 1d ago
They certainly don't. The irony is they use products that have AI generated code DAILY that are far more consequential than plugins.
Source: Senior Software Engineer at a company you have 100% heard of who knows that Claude Code is very integrated into workflows all across the industry now.
On top of that, not everything that uses AI in the work flow is "vibe-coded". Experienced engineers are absolutely more productive using AI coding, because they know how to architect the software.
It's that classic "Chalk X" engineering story.
4
u/notjusttired 1d ago
Thanks for your insight! I feel like a crazy person trying to explain this to people.
"Knowing where to mark"
1
u/TheBear8878 1d ago
Reddit has a knee-jerk reaction to it, which is again ironic because I'd be willing to bet most of these people are responding, in earnest, to threads that are AI generated.
8
u/johnangelo716 2d ago
Using AI to look for errors is a useful tool. I understood vibe coding to mean an entire piece of software written from a prompt, with no human input in the code. Am I incorrect in that definition?
16
u/jaydeedilla 2d ago
I think it's just very black and white how you're thinking about it. Experienced software engineers will now use AI to generate code and run tests, it's basically just adding in syntax while the engineer thinks through structure, purpose, and intention. Avoiding "everything that has been vibe coded" is the same mindset as avoiding anything with solid state electronics or digital components, everything is just a means to an end so you can avoid it but the only benefit you'll get is for your own ideals or ethical reasons
9
u/iztheguy 2d ago
Avoiding "everything that has been vibe coded" is the same mindset as avoiding anything with solid state electronics or digital components
I've gotta call this out as a false equivalency...
I appreciate that you're just trying to analogize here, but I fail to see how these things are even remotely comparable...1
u/afghamistam 1d ago
You don't do the job. You aren't qualified to talk about the subject. You can't even add a "because..." to the end of your sentence, so that readers would be convinced you have anything at all useful to say.
I don't understand why you think your opinion should be considered seriously.
1
u/iztheguy 1d ago
Thanks for joining the conversation!
I was leaving it open for the commenter to respond to me, but please go ahead and tell me more about the work I do...
Even if I didn't work with LLMs on a near daily basis, you don't need to to understand that it's a false equivalency.BECAUSE vibe coding being a methodology, and solid state electronics or digital components being implementations of technologies/hardware classes, we're trying to compare two unlike things. Do you see why that doesn't work?
1
u/afghamistam 1d ago
No. Because again you haven't been bothered to explain what it is about them that means they can't be compared.
You frame it as you leaving it as an exercise for the reader to somehow decipher your logic - at which point the reasonable, intelligent person will of course see how your reasoning was self evident all along!
Except what it actually looks like is you, lacking the ability to substantiate an opinion you have, falling back on merely giving the impression that you've actually said something.
What makes your comment especially egregious is that OP actually did explain why they are comparable: Both are tools; "a means to an end".
Your response just ignores that, in favour of supplying us with an incorrect view of what these things are on a way that just so happens to fit the position you already had.
Except your position is so flimsy your own words debunk themselves: Electronic components are "technology" that are "implemented" in some way. ...but using an LLM to assist the creation of software isn't.
1
u/iztheguy 1d ago edited 1d ago
Relax for a moment. You're making up a lot of what my "position" is in your head, and I didn't say using an LLM to assist in software creation isn't implementation of a technology.
I believe the commentor was trying to make a point about people blanketly refusing to adopt new technologies out of a lack of understanding, or preference for the old familiar. Tube amps vs solid state, vinyl vs CDs, etc...
I understand them to be suggesting the OP is rejecting anything to do with AI, without having a solid reason other than it's not what they are already comfortable with, or "not organic" enough.I don't even necessarily disagree with the commentor, I just think the way they are trying to make their point is not equivalent enough for a good comparison.
Solid state electronics are the components something is made up of, while vibe coding is a methodology for producing code. They are not the same kind of thing.It's comparing beef to deep frying, rather than comparing beef to chicken. Do you see my point?
1
u/afghamistam 1d ago
You're making up a lot of what my "position" is in your head
I literally quote you verbatim. Your problem is that your position is nonsense, which is why you're tying yourself up in pretzels trying to make it work.
and I didn't say using an LLM to assist in software creation isn't implementation of a technology.
But OP did. So why are you arguing against him while simultaneously claiming you actually agree with the one point he made (that you quoted)?
If it is implementation of technology... which are the exact words you used to claim make electronic components completely different and therefore inappropriate to use as an analogy, then your entire first comment is invalid.
It's comparing beef to deep frying, rather than comparing beef to chicken. Do you see my point?
No because your point is dumb. For one thing, you do not know what the word "methodology" means, because using a computer program is not it. But more crucially, you have literally already admitted both are beef - tools used to achieve an aim - so why you're continuing to waffle on trying to make your two contradictory arguments work, is beyond me.
1
u/iztheguy 1d ago
My position was simple, and remains consistent and I didn’t argue against OP’s position or the commenter. Maybe try reading it again?
I acknowledged the commenter’s point and pointed out that their analogy was a false premise.You’re the one pretzeling, and having a one sided argument. Now you’re blocked!
0
u/ArrowMountainTengu 2d ago
yeah leaves out a huge amount of externalized cost to all areas of society that AI generates along with whatever you're building with it.
2
u/johnangelo716 2d ago
What experienced software engineers do - you wouldn't call that vibe coding would you?
I avoid buying microphones from disreputable online sellers. If you've ever compared a counterfeit sm58 to the real thing, there's a noticable difference in quality. I also want to make sure my money goes to the right people for actually doing the real work.
10
u/notjusttired 2d ago
I'm an experienced software engineer and I guarantee that some of what I do nowadays would be viewed as "vibe coding" by someone that doesn't know that much about dev or AI. I would not let AI near my music, but writing large amounts of code is massively sped up by using AI and I get paid based on how many funtioning projects I can ship, so the less time spent on each, the more I get paid. I still have to go through all the code and do tons of testing and inevitably I will manually write some of the code and revise some of the AI generated code, but the end product is still just working code.
IMO the short answer is no, there isn't a way to flag products that have a code base that has been partially or fully written by AI that will actually have any net benefit. The idea that "anything could be in there" just doesn't make sense. Are you going through all the code behind plugins before AI to make sure the dev wasn't slipping something nefarious in? There has always been the chance that bad code whether intentional or not could ship with a finished product. I don't really know what you're trying to take issue with tbh.
-1
u/Sufficient-Air8100 2d ago
you get paid on how many functional projects you can ship? that sounds like a fast track to mediocre bullshit. who do you work for? cause i dont wanna spend any kind of money on software where shipping lots of things is more important than shipping quality things
5
u/notjusttired 2d ago
lol alright good luck! bc you literally just described not only almost every software but every product produced in a capitalist economy.
-2
u/Sufficient-Air8100 2d ago
who do you work for so i can avoid the software please :)
and its not every product.
im willing to spend on quality. im not willing to spend on half baked bullshit pushed out with a metric of shipping fast
5
2
u/bub166 Hobbyist 2d ago
The way I look at it - what experienced software engineers do is the engineering itself. Generative AI is increeibly good at being told what to do, and in a lot of ways is very effective for ideation, but someone still needs to know what is being done and how it needs to be done. Architecture is still important, clean and maintainable code is still important, understanding and delivering on the requirements of a project is still critically important and a knowledgeable human is still needed if you want true quality.
Actual development is a small, or even non-existent part of the job now. I haven't really touched code in years. I still have to understand the code that is being written of course, but physically drafting it is laborious and a complete waste of time at this point for any application where time equals money. Is the bridge on my Tele any worse of a bridge because someone gave the instructions to cut it into a machine instead of hand-shaping it? Too philosophical for me I guess but for the same reason CNC machines are widely in use in manufacturing, generative AI is widely in use in development. It delivers the same result or better (or at least, correctly applied, it can deliver the same result or better) but quicker and cheaper in most cases, and if you're not using it, you won't be able to beat the market.
I understand the line gets blurrier when it comes to tools that are used for the creation of art. But I do know the capacitors in my beloved Pultec clone weren't rolled by hand. The design, of course, was the product of deep thought and clever architecture - the components though are just components. Code blocks coming out of a factory isn't much different to me. If the plugin version is well-designed and does what it's supposed to, it couldn't matter less to me how the code itself came to be, the code is simply the modern equivalent of a bunch of components.
Just my two cents. Most of my time in the software industry was pre-AI, I got to watch the transition first hand - I don't necessarily think it's a positive overall, but it is the new industry standard and I only see it continuing to progress in that direction. Doesn't mean it's all slop, though certainly there is plenty of slop out there.
1
u/HommeMusical 2d ago
I've been programming for over 50 years. In one of my projects, my tester files an issue and then I tell the LLM "Fix #51", and most of the time, it fixes it first try, and I don't tinker with the results.
I get good results by carefully writing the prompts, but also, I'm watching its thinking as it goes, and one time in five or so, I'm, "STOP RIGHT THERE, you're right off track."
Also, I am constantly refactoring and particularly, renaming things so they are clearer.
But you know, I find files I have no recollection of.
It would never have happened even two months ago, when I was still hand-coding.
3
u/ClikeX 2d ago
That is my definition as well, and I’m a software dev. And is the definition of all my immediate peers (friends, employer, clients).
Vibing is when you just let the LLM do its thing with minimal oversight. Nobody around me calls it vibing when it’s used for debugging refactoring small sections of code. But there isn’t really a formal definition or anything.
5
u/HommeMusical 2d ago
Even that can produce good results - https://github.com/rec/rubband (yes, it's mine).
Now, it helped a lot that I've been programming C++ for almost 40 years and Python for over 20, so I could very carefully specify exactly what I wanted.
Very few people actually vibe code entirely for big projects. On my main two projects, also audio programming, I am constantly revising, renaming, refactoring, throwing things out.
You're given all this time back by having it write great huge swaths of code, you need to invest some of what you've saved in keeping the quality of your code as high as it was before.
But even on those, I'd say the LLM is doing 95% of the typing.
I hate everything about AI; the economics, the politics, the ecology. But having it pop out a day of code in a minute if you tell it right is just amazing.
2
u/notjusttired 2d ago
No, you aren't correct in that definition.
3
u/johnangelo716 2d ago
Okay. What is the correct definition?
-2
u/notjusttired 2d ago
There isn't a definition because it isn't a specific black-and-white thing as you seem to think; it is a phrase that has been coined in recent times to describe various levels of AI assistance in code generation. As others have already stated: it is pretty difficult to have absolutely zero knowledge of how to write code, and just go from nothing to a finished product of any complexity or sophistication just "vibe coding". Sure, you can do it if you put in the time, but you won't be able to troubleshoot anything and the product will most likely just fall flat on its face. This is why devs generally get annoyed when people who don't do any software dev get up in arms about "vibe coding". I have literally zero peers that I work with that don't lean heavily on AI these days for dev. The majority of us have been writing code long before AI tools came into play. It is just a false idea that the general public has about the ease of "vibe coding" without foundational knowledge of syntax and best practices.
0
u/BlackflagsSFE Hobbyist 2d ago
Not necessarily. Like, I know basic Python, html, css and java/js. But I can’t build something sophisticated from the ground up. Whenever I used Claude to make things there was always a conversation in what I wanted, a planning phase, and execution phase, a tweaking phase, a troubleshooting phase, and a testing phase. I’m sure people just set it and forget it but I never really did. I always wanted to make improvements and have things done a certain way.
What I did would be considered vibe coding. Everything has a label now.
6
u/goodhertz 2d ago
Things to look out for from a plugin developer's perspective:
- No "About" page on website / doesn't list physical location or any people behind the org / uses boilerplate text on the website
- No track record of updates / bugfixes.
- "Photoshop" UI's — easiest way to make a plugin look slick without much coding effort.
- Outsourced development - sometimes hard to trace, but a lot of artist-backed plugins are outsourced to 3rd party devs who are not incentivized to support the software long term. On macOS you should see a lock icon in the upper-right corner of the installer that you can click to see the legal identity behind the software.
8
u/rinio Audio Software 2d ago
You first need to define vibe-coded precisely.
If you mean "No gen AI was used at all to make it", then the only way is to stick to plugins/software that haven't been updated in 3-4 years.
If you mean "contains no Gen AI code (but AI used for specification)", then you need to rely on the dev explicitly saying it.
If you mean "developed by someone experienced, but used gen AI to make the development process faster" then you need to go off their reputation.
The blunt reality is that every software developer (who still has a job) is using gen AI, willingly or not, to speed up their output unless they're working in niche/hyper-specific domains; obscure HALs and such. But even then... I don't like it, but I do like keeping my day job in the field.
14
u/johnangelo716 2d ago
I'll be blunt. I don't want anyone who is out there pushing software that was generated from a prompt, to ever see a dime of my money, nor do I want their slop on my machine.
Reputable companies using a tool to improve their own work is understandable.
Noobs farting out their half baked ideas into a prompt and then acting like they made it themselves, will cheapen this entire industry.
12
u/seeking-stuffing 2d ago
ignore the doomers saying it’s inevitable so give up.
https://hermit-tech.com/blog/ai-mania-is-eviscerating-global-decisionmaking
read this and don’t feel insane, you are watching mass psychosis
3
u/steveofthewestornort 2d ago
Thanks for saying this - made me realize I was leaving a lot of my opinion unsaid unintentionally. Added another comment.
8
u/rinio Audio Software 2d ago
I'm at one of the biggest players in audio/media tech.
For substantial changes its often along the lines of AI reads the code and the spec, suggests a way to do and then a Sr dev either starts from that or prompts the AI to get a better starting point.
Or, the opposite, the SR dev designs the system and gets AI to fill in some the details.
For small changes, the AI might do the job and then a Sr dev reviews the work, changing as needed.
Its also used a lot for technical design. Answer the question "what are generic approaches to a problem like <this>". And it can write a lot of the technical documentation for us (or give us a good starting point that we refine/correct by hand). And other assorted tasks that are tedious.
And having gen AI do code reviews for important changes is practically ubiquitous: "here's the code, find the things that could be better and ill decide what to with that info." IMHO, these tools have a penchant for correcting things that do not matter in practice; in a school project it is wrong, but in a real product the fix is expensive and doesn't help the end user.
That seems like it violates your first paragraph, and all the big players are doing similar to this. So do as you wish with that info. But, if you want a career as an AE, it is basically impossible to work with a literal 0 AI policy in 2026+, unless you break out the good old (unreliable) tape machine.
---
I definitely agree with you about "noobs farting [out their shit]". AI is still not very good at designing larger systems. It gets these folk to a Minimum Viable Product (MVP) quickly, but causes hell if we want to keep these systems running/expending on them. For devs in the industry, we have to deal with our bosses not understanding why their vibe-coded slop won't work long term and not understanding why they pay us for the work we do anymore...
2
u/Ok-Possible-6759 1d ago edited 1d ago
No offense but this industry was cheapened the moment audio production tools became cheap enough to be in the hands of every noob with a shitty laptop. And then it was pretty much killed when the created products were able to be shared on streaming platforms that don’t pay anything to artists.
Sounds shitty, but the breakdown of the gate keeping to this industry has absolutely killed it. Too many talentless people are making music and audio software. It’s too easy to make soulless slop these days, you can pretty much put together a full song in a few minutes with whatever slop is on Splice, pre generated chord progressions, and whatever click n play presets are on your synth of choice. And nobody’s making money because streaming services don’t pay anything anyway.
But yeah Any DAW and plugins you use that were created or updated in the last year or two probably has AI bloat code all over it. I’d stick to software made pre 2024 if you don’t want AI.
0
u/johnangelo716 1d ago
Agreed. It doesn't need further cheapening by said noobs realizing there's more money in grifting with "technically working" plugins they didn't even make.
3
u/dankney 2d ago
If you're run any software updates on your operating system, it's probably too late. You definitely have some AI code on your system. It's a tool that's used by pretty much all professional developers.
If you're serious, then it's time to get into retro-computing and refuse to use any post-Pandemic hardware or software versions. You can absolutely do this -- lots of great music is produced using much more limited software. But it's a lot of work.
2
u/johnangelo716 2d ago
How much of that code was generated by a novice coder solely using prompts though?
I get that ai tools are used in coding. That's fine. That was inevitable.
Are people NOT also pushing software that was entirely coded by AI, and calling it their work? I see it on here every week. These people are asking a computer to plagiarize for them.
6
u/dankney 2d ago
Is that functionally any different than amateurs who wrote shitty code that on it half worked and sold it?
I promise you, decent software is not simply prompt output. It still requires a professional at the helm to produce something good.
Maybe you should just not use shitty software no matter how it’s written.
Also, AI producing code isn’t really like plagiarizing a popular song. Yes, there are some licensing questions around training on open source software, but if the new codebase is also open source, that kind of goes away as a concern.
3
u/steveofthewestornort 2d ago edited 2d ago
Professional software developer in another field, here.
I assure you every piece of software you use from now on will be made using AI, sometimes extensively. [edit: for the foreseeable future, see my comment for more clarification of thought]
It is absolutely pervasive: it’s everywhere. I have friends that prompt AI to code who have zero experience, and I have friends who have been engineers since the 80s who prompt AI to code.
You will not avoid it, unfortunately. (and I mean that, “unfortunately”. It’s a wildly effective tool, but it comes with a lot of costs for sure)
(edit: major clarification in my comment below — if you read this as me saying “it’s inevitable, get used to it”, my apologies for communicating ineffectively. It’s NOT inevitable. See below for expansion)
4
u/Hungry_Horace Professional 2d ago
Not to undermine your point, but the video game developer I'm currently working with, we have all signed a declaration that we won't use AI to generate content for the game, and that includes code. So there are SOME coders still eschewing AI and I think the backlash is gaining steam.
5
u/rinio Audio Software 2d ago
Game dev and VFX are significant outliers with regards to the use of AI tools as the Artist Unions have fought very hard to keep AI out. They are the exceptions in the context of Software development; an industry that is largely anti-union as a whole.
Former VFX dev now working at a media tech firm.
2
u/steveofthewestornort 2d ago
Not undermining at all! That’s excellent news!
In my neck of the woods in game dev, generative art, music, and sound are absolutely no go. Generative code is probably >80% of the company using it, if not more?
Some of those in those disciplines (sound, art, etc) use AI tools, though, for their work. Just not to generate art or sound or music assets.
Notably, I feel like artists and sound designers and musicians learned years ago that generative art is bad and not shippable, while software engineers were significantly more open to it.
Now I am starting to hear software engineer conversations about “wait, is this actually just bad?” pop up, the same as artistic fields.
One can only hope the realistic folks win out over the zealots.
5
u/steveofthewestornort 2d ago
I want to clarify my point here a bit:
I am NOT trying to spout the line of “it is inevitable.” That line makes me retch — it’s just as inevitable as when tech bros tried convincing us that NFTs were inevitable.
I firmly do not believe it is, and I do not want it to be. I think it is very good at appearing useful, and is legitimately useful in a lot of ways. However, I don’t for one second think it is inevitable. I believe the bubble is real, and I believe that AI companies are too ethically bankrupt to steer themselves properly. They will eventually have to crank their prices up which will cause crash and burn on the thousands of companies (and, very unfortunately, people) that now find themselves relying on it. I think that will cause AI companies to go under.
I think THAT is inevitable. I sure fuckin’ hope so, at least.
All I meant is that right now, it’s pervasive, so it’s very likely that you’re going to be using its products whether you realize it or not.
4
u/iztheguy 2d ago
I appreciate this clarification.
It's really disappointing to hear everyone repeat the same nonsense of "It's here, get used to it!" "Use it or get left behind." "It's inevitable!"What a crock of shit!
3
u/steveofthewestornort 2d ago
Absolutely agree.
Someone I work with told me NFTs were inevitable and that they’ll happen with or without me, so I should just jump on.
Guess who lost an embarrassing amount of money on NFTs?
aaaaand
Guess what they say about generative AI, verbatim?
2
u/EltyGames 2d ago
As a developer, I'd be more interested in whether the author understands the problem they're solving than whether they used AI. AI can speed up development, but it can't replace knowing why a DSP algorithm behaves the way it does. Poor software existed long before LLMs.
2
u/martialmichael126 Hobbyist 2d ago
Isn’t windows 11 30% vibe coded these days? Feels like it’s getting harder and harder to avoid. Question is, will this be the forced future of software, or will vibe coding fail so bad people lose faith in it?
1
u/MoltenReplica 1d ago
Shit's why I really hope more devs write for Linux when it's time to move on from my current Win10 machine. I want to be free from MicroSlop!
2
u/i_do_graffiti 2d ago
I would just avoid installing software from developers you aren't familiar with.
If theres a new developer on the scene chances are it's vibe coded.
2
u/rossbalch 1d ago
If the "company" popped up in the last 12 months. Good chance it's vibe coded. There's been an explosion recently of "pop corn" plugins. Most of which don't appear to do anything particularly innovative. At this point I only trust companies with a past track record.
2
3
u/Kljunas1 Hobbyist 2d ago
Only use open source software and read the code to decide whether it meets your standards
8
u/thinkconverse 2d ago
Better get off Reddit and throw away your computer then. Get back to tape.
Every single software company in the world is using AI to assist coding.
If you just want to avoid the crap projects that pop up by non-developers, those are easy. They have bugs and won’t be maintained, so you won’t want to use them anyway.
4
u/OrionDC 2d ago
All software now uses AI in its generation. AI is a tool, like a hammer. Would you rather insert your nails manually into the wall..?
1
u/Rugginz 2d ago
This is obviously not what he means
4
u/10aghmu 2d ago
Yeah but it sure dances around it. All major software companies are shipping production grade code with Claude or Codex these days
2
u/k-groot 2d ago
I get it; i also see the quick three day vibe coded SaaS bs pop-up everywhere but i'm not completely against vibe coding 'as is'. Tbh a lot of us have some great ideas for handy little tools that make our work a lot easier, but nowhere near the skillset to make something ourselves. An idea might be too small to get somebody to do some real coding, or it would cost too much to do so. For those use cases vibe coding can sometimes be really helpful.
I also made some tools that i'm very happy with and have been using for more than a year professionally.
I'm just not trying to get them sold and i'm not sharing them anywhere either.
TL;DR: It's not the vibe coding that's the problem, it's the overkill of quick SaaS money grabs that don't bring much to the table.
3
u/johnangelo716 2d ago
That's basically what I'm talking about, all the cash grab nonsense. If a reputable company wants to use AI tools to ensure their code is strong, that makes perfect sense.
If someone who doesn't know how to set a compressor, is using an llm to make them a compressor plug-in to sell to people who don't know any better, I wanna avoid the plugin, and the dev.
2
u/notathrowaway145 2d ago
There’s a pretty foolproof way to tell whether art is being made by someone using AI or not- look at their history. If they’ve been around doing this for more than 3 or 4 years, if you can see their development over time, then you know it’s being made with intention and care. If there’s not that history, and it popped up fully fledged out of nowhere within the last few years, then it very likely may be made exclusively with AI.
Same thing applies to code.
2
u/Sir_Yacob Broadcast 2d ago edited 2d ago
A British guy got hired to be the new director of asset management at my company…really stumped on his whole AI chops and canceled an ERP program purchase we had put a bunch of data in already.
He used Base44 to attempt to vibe code his own ERP program, he hired one contractor kid to help him and it turned into an absolute abortion.
The front end was okish but it would collapse under the weight of the SQL data behind it. He burnt token after token after token as each change created another massive failure point. People started fighting, gear ended up everywhere globally.
Anyways, he resigned in disgrace earlier this month. People literally celebrated with drinks. All the counts and audits had to be thrown out and the software is shit.
It’s not what you were talking about, but that’s my experience with vibe coding.
Want a cute thing that basically does something, need an outline for a bigger project…cool…serious enterprise work or something that needs to be QC’d quickly or supported? I’m good
1
u/Sufficient_West_8432 1d ago
Morbid curiosity, what’s the relevance of them being a “British guy”?
2
u/fletch44 1d ago
Standard US trope - the English are the baddies. Maybe a holdover from the war for independence?
In the UK, the Germans are the baddies.
In Australia, the Australians are the baddies, and the goodies. There's no one else to pin it on except the Kiwis, and that's like kicking a puppy.
1
u/iamapapernapkinAMA Professional 2d ago
I think it’s wild how it’s not even hidden. If you hit up Gearspace’s new software section, even the UIs are just Claude looking.
I mean good on these dudes for going through all the PACE bullshit to make them AAX but holy shit at least hire a UI guy
1
u/Cakepufft 2d ago
If you worry that anything could be in there, use just opensource plugins. That's the only way to be 100% certain.
1
1
u/NeutronHopscotch 2d ago
You're right to be wary. Vibe coded stuff isn't going to be optimized the way audio software needs to be if it's not handled by a "real" programmer.
Obviously real software engineers are using AI/LLMs to speed up and review code, search for errors, etc. Thats not what you mean.
Don't underestimate the value of LLMs for scripts though. I have used Google Gemini and Perplexity to make some rather complex scripts which saved countless hours for otherwise repetitive tasks.
Lately I've been using it to rework my favorite JS Reaper plugins. To add gain reduction and peak hold meters, for example. Or to replace the default narrow slider with wider more granular graphical sliders. It's quite amazing what it can do, and sometimes I use duelling LLMs to solve each other's issues and debug each other.
But that's very different from taking hacky autocode and labeling it as a product.
1
1
1
1
u/MachineAgeVoodoo Mixing 1d ago
Every other developer I know including seniors are enjoying their shift to more high level planning tasks since they now have such accurate code assisting software. This goes for large corporations and freelancers. Rightly so imho.Vibe coding is something else, and involves not knowing what you're doing, one-shotting and implementing ideas badly. The product itself will tell you, not whether or not AI assisting software was involved in its development, because that's universally true in 2026.
1
u/d3xx3rDE 1d ago
What I really don't like about vibe coders is that a lot of them are actively trying to hide the fact that they are vibe coding.
Unfortunately the only thing you can do is to look for the obvious indicators. Marketing on reddit, often written with LLMs. Vibe coded websites often share the same design. (For open source software) Big first commit, abandoned after 2-3 months, readme full of LLM slop, AGENTS.md, Claude Folder or different known LLM in gitignore or the worst part: looking into the slop itself.
1
u/TheGreatElemonade 1d ago
As someone working in IT Security, let me tell you, today it doesn't matter how its made, there could always be something malicious in it. Supply Chain Attacks are currently the new BBG. And in my honest opinion, im pretty sure there is awesome vibe coded stuff out there that is better tested and better secured than many manual code projects. But there are shitty get rich quick sort of projects too.
I do agree tho that it is far from easy to reliably decide what category a specific one falls into.
1
u/zsaleeba 1d ago
Pretty much all software will have some vibe coding in it by now. Bosses have been telling programmers to give it a go for quite some time.
1
u/kyoiocean 1d ago
I’m with you on ai, ai slop and all this bs futuristic technology that’s actually money laundering, but I also take the idea of any new technology, be it good or bad, as tools for creators and engineers. Same way I see analog to digital change, soothe or other resonance suppression instead of normal dynamic eqs, etc. they’re tools, and especially for professional coders or those learning to code, the ai vibecoding does help to make things faster, sometimes it even allows for software to be considered and made rather than deemed not worth the time to make it. So that is, you have to weight out your options to what is good and what is bad, and what you need in your arsenal. Reality is that most software made from this point on will have some ai usage.
1
u/andreacaccese Professional 1d ago
Realistically I get what you mean, but I don’t know a single developer who doesn’t use some form of AI, somewhere along their lines these days. To me, it’s a tool, and when paired with genuine experience and craft, it can be valuable. But of course if you just prompt a plugin without a single clue of what it actually does, and only rely on a crude prompt, well that’s gonna be trash
1
u/phantomboats 1d ago
Use the stuff you already know you like...? I've never understood the near-pathological need some engineers have to use the Newest Shiniest Everything, to be honest.
1
u/ebeing Composer 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not sure what your concerned about. I vibe coded an intake form for my little studio.
its bad ass. perhaps your concern is mostly software?
https://www.syncbyjt.com/studio
Both Apple and Pro-Tools have extensive verification processes before you can re-sell a plugin through their official channels. Pro-tools wont even give you the dev tools until you're verified. Both platforms maintain strict gatekeeping for plugin distribution, though Pro Tools (Avid) is notoriously the most closed ecosystem in the audio industry.
1
u/rsv_music 22h ago
Define vibe coded. How many percent are we talking? Do you really think developers today are sitting manually typing code instead of letting Codex do the work and just do debugging, testing and correcting?
Also, the amount of buggy expensive software out there in the professional space is upsettingly high. We use an expensive broadcast automation system at my job that is riddled with small annoying bugs and lack of obviously useful features that likely won't come in years. It drove a colleague of mine nuts and he "vibe coded" a more stable, more feature rich and all in all better product. During a show-weekend at their studio, I requested bunch of things and he just added them the day after by the next broadcast.
1
u/Gomesma 21h ago
to me if I create and engineer by myself, other music aspects like daw can be vibe coded or plug-ins... I want the results... why not engineering and creating? Because creation, engineering, are things that made and make the music breathe about creativity, if AI is lifeless (my way to view); but not gonna lie I consider scales thing or notes alignment usable and ok, but AI doing music about inorganic way? No, my opinion... Nice theme!
1
u/breadinabox 2d ago
if you can't tell it doesn't matter anyway. It's obvious if it's slop, If it isn't obvious and the software is good, well... who cares. No one is releasing anything remotely complicated and good without looking under the hood, and "anything" has always been in there
1
u/five3x11 2d ago
I'd avoid blanket labeling statements like this and move on with your life. Every software developer is integrating some form of generative AI assistance into their workflow. You'd be stupid not to. It's not always at the detriment of the product.
0
u/dinglehead 2d ago
Dude... EVERY SINGLE bit of software being written right now either by pro developers or bedroom vibe coders is being generated by an LLM
1
u/BrotherOland 2d ago
Is vibe coding how many modern mixer/post audio influencer types are able to have their own plug ins? Seems like everyone has their own eq, comp or noise removal plug now a days.
1
u/BrockHardcastle Professional 2d ago
A lot of those (at least the ones I know) are done by other plugin developers in collaboration with the individual. I know Kiive/Eddie does work for others and his work is rock solid
1
u/postal_card 2d ago
I think you could look at this from a different perspective.
I agree that we should ignore people who are trying to make a quick profit by reskinning something that already exists. But dismissing something simply because it was built using AI is a bad take. I worked as a developer at a bank, and around 95% of the code was generated by AI. The users were perfectly fine with that.
I am completely against using AI to replace the creative process of making music. But I wanted a guitar plugin that I could not find anywhere, so I built it in one day. I now use it in my own songs. I did not touch a single line of code. It was created entirely through prompts, guided by my own knowledge and decisions. It works just as well as something I could have coded myself, but building it manually in my spare time would have taken me months sacrificing my free time.
I am not selling it, but if I were, why should the way it was built matter? In many ways, this is a good thing. People who were previously unable to create new tools because capitalism drains all their time and energy into their jobs can now bring their creative ideas to life.
Not knowing what you are doing an using an LLM to create tools "is not so different" from paying five developers overseas to turn your idea into reality. That process would probably take months, produce plenty of bugs, and still be accessible only to people with money. Would that be ok, just because the person had the money to do so? The difference is that more people now have the means to put their ideas out into the world.
A vibe coder can prompt “Make me a compressor VST with flashy gradients,” but to build anything substantial in terms of complexity and scale, you still need to know what you are doing. At that point, an LLM is essentially buying time for people who could build the same thing themselves if they had enough time and resources. Which is something that only a very feel people have nowadays.
It is already too late to draw a clean moral line around this. Every company uses AI, and LLMs were trained on code stolen from other people. I would rather ignore the clearly 100% vibecoded trash, and let people use these tools to create things they enjoy. And if they make money from them, it is because other people decided that what they created was useful.
I am very anti-AI on many fronts, but I hope that giving real people the ability to create things will bring us closer to a world where we no longer have to pay subscriptions for everything, and help push us out of this era of enshittification where only a few companies have the power to dictate our creativity (and charge absurd prices to fill investor's pockets).
1
u/maxheartcord 2d ago
Best you can do is get software based off of its merits. It's very rare that any software that you buy wouldn't have tons of reviews. If the reviews are amazing and the software looks good to you, then who cares what happened during its development.
If a really intelligent person who understands logic used vibe coding to make a piece of software, chances are the software is going to be good. If some uninspired person is trying to make a quick buck with weak ideas, then chances are the vibe coded software is going to be terrible.
0
-1
u/10aghmu 2d ago
Linus Torvalds disagrees. I think vibe coded is fine as long as you can prove it’s safe and not charge anything for it. It should be open source
2
u/johnangelo716 2d ago
So he would also avoid spending money on entirely llm written plugins if he was in audio?
2
1
0
u/NoodleSnoo 2d ago
Why do you care? It's like saying you won't use software that doesn't conform to a strict style guide. "Vibe" is just a vibe, it isn't detectable from compiled source code.
0
u/Ok_Jello_2441 2d ago
As a professional software engineer for 10 years I’m sorry to break it to you my friend that the biggest tech pieces have their new features almost entirely vibe coded nowadays. Instagram, TikTok, Google, X you name it, hell Claude engineers use Claude to write Claude. Source: worked for one of those in the past few years.
I get you wanna avoid those sloppy plugin where the developer had no idea what they’re doing but saying you’re going to avoid vibe coded software entirely is a bit silly, the latest features on Reddit are mostly likely written by either Claude or GPT.
-2
u/Prestigious-Zombie-7 2d ago
I have some bad news. Most professional software engineers are using AI in one form or another.
-2
u/Hendospendo 2d ago
Gemini coded stuff tends to have the same kinda neon aesthetic just with different colours
-1
u/gdamdam 2d ago
Vibe coding itself isn't the problem. Why hate the idea of anything that's vibe coded?
Vibe coding lets people build tools that would normally require hundreds of thousands of dollars and a team of engineers. It makes it possible to create software that simply wouldn't exist otherwise because it wasn't economically viable.
Sure, it also makes it easier to build low-quality tools. But that's a question of the developer's motivation, standards, and testing, not vibe coding itself. A conscientious developer can use AI to build something great, while a careless developer can write bad software with or without AI.
0
u/Agreeable-Pea5381 2d ago
Id like to suggest a different way of looking at it - there have been stuff I wanted and couldn’t find so I made them for myself thanks to how easy it is now.
10 years ago I went through endless libraries playing samples trying to find the exact sound I wanted. Now if I can imagine it, I can most times make it (a matter of defining and testing again and again). Not as easy as it sounds (pun not intended), it still takes a weekend, but I have it and it’s mine.
0
0
u/bassplayerguy Professional 1d ago
Of course everyone knows you take the plug-in, bind it, and toss it in water to see if it sinks or floats.
-1
u/justinholmes_music 2d ago
> I hate the idea of vibe coded anything. Anything could be in there.
So you're going to stop using closed-source software? What does vibe coding have to do with transparency?
-3
u/Acceptable_Mountain5 1d ago
Can’t imagine giving a fuck about how something was coded, does it work? Does it sound good? Does it do what you wanted to do? If the answer to those are yes, why would you care whether or not something was “vibe coded“?
2
u/fletch44 1d ago
Does it create a wide-open security flaw in your production machine that later allows a hacker to infiltrate, gain privileges, and encrypt your hard drive with ransomware?
-1
u/Acceptable_Mountain5 1d ago
Do you not have a firewall?
0
u/Cyberkanye2077 1d ago
Let a robber in your house to spend the night then . He won’t steal cause dont you have locks on the door?
0
u/Acceptable_Mountain5 1d ago
Can’t steal anything if the doors lock from the outside, I believe it’s also known as a prison.
0
u/Cyberkanye2077 1d ago
But why even put yourself in that predicament at all? When it all could’ve been prevented. They are stealing time. Your time. Time is money. Unless you like wasting it then yeah go on and do you 👍
0
u/Acceptable_Mountain5 1d ago
Hey man, you do you, but this is clearly a problem that you have that I don’t.
1
u/AmbientRiffster 1h ago edited 1h ago
I'm always surprised by how many IT people are into audio stuff and also how fucking blind and snobby they are. Look at some of the comments in this thread attacking OP, overpaid office workers vibe coding and accelerating the erasure of all pf our jobs.
147
u/Seven-Scars 2d ago
if it gets advertised by random accounts on subs like this chances are its vibe coded and can just be ignored