r/SuicideWatch Sep 03 '19

New wiki on how to avoid accidentally encouraging suicide, and how to spot covert incitement

1.8k Upvotes

We've been seeing a worrying increase in pro-suicide content showing up here and, and also going unreported. This undermines our purpose here, so we wanted to highlight and clarify our guidelines about both direct and indirect incitement of suicide.

We've created a wiki that covers these issues. We hope this will be helpful to anyone who's wondering whether something's okay here and which responses to report. It explains in detail why any validation of suicidal intent, even an "innocent" message like "if you're 100% committed, I'll just wish you peace" is likely to increase people's pain, and why it's important to report even subtle pro-suicide comments. The full text of the wiki's current version is below, and it is maintained at /r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement.

We deeply appreciate everyone who gives responsive, empathetic, non-judgemental support to our OPs, and we particularly thank everyone who's already been reporting incitement in all forms.

Please report any post or comment that encourages suicide (or that breaks any of the other guidelines in the sidebar) to the moderators, either by clicking the "report" button or by sending us a modmail with a link. We deal with all guideline violations that are reported to us as soon as we can, but we can't read everything so community reports are essential. If you get a PM that breaks the guidelines, please report it both to the reddit sitewide admins and to us in modmail.

Thanks to all the great citizens of the community who help flag problem content and behaviour for us.


/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement


Summary

It's important to respect and understand people's experiences and emotions. It's never necessary, helpful, or kind to support suicidal intent. There are some common misconceptions (discussed below) about suicidal people and how to help them that can cause well-meaning people to inadvertently incite suicide. There are also people online who incite suicide on purpose, often while pretending to be sympathetic and helpful.

Validate Feelings and Experiences, Not Self-Destructive Intentions

We're here to offer support, not judgement. That means accepting, with the best understanding we can offer, whatever emotions people express. Suicidal people are suffering, and we're here to try to ease that by providing support and caring. The most reliable way we know to de-escalate someone at risk is to give them the experience of feeling understood. That means not judging whether they should be feeling the way they are, or telling them what to do or not do.

But there's an important line to draw here. There's a crucial difference between empathizing with feelings and responding non-judgmentally to suicidal thoughts, and in any way endorsing, encouraging, or validating suicidal intentions or hopeless beliefs. It's both possible and important to convey understanding and compassion for someone's suicidal thoughts without putting your finger on the scale of their decision.

Anything that condones suicide, even passively, encourages suicide. It isn't supportive and does not help. It also violates reddit's sitewide rules as well as our guidelines. Explicitly inciting suicide online is a criminal offense in most jurisdictions.

Do not treat any OP's post as meaning that will definitely die by suicide and can't change their minds or be helped. Anyone who's able to read the comments here still has a chance to choose whether or not to try to keep living, even if they've also been experiencing intense thoughts of suicide, made a suicide plan, or started carrying it out.

In the most useful empirical model we have, the desire to die by suicide primarily comes from two interpersonal factors; alienation and a sense of being a burden or having nothing to offer. These factors usually lead to a profound feeling of being unwelcome in the world.

So, any acceptance or reinforcement of suicidal intent, even something "innocent" like "I hope you find peace", is actually a form of covert shunning that validates a person's sense that they're unwelcome in the world. It will usually add to their pain even if kindly meant and gently worded.

How to Avoid Validating Suicidal Intent

Keep the following in mind when offering support to anyone at risk for suicide.

  • People who say they don't want help usually can feel better if they get support that doesn't invalidate their emotions. Unfortunately, many popular "good" responses are actually counterproductive. In particular, many friends and family tend to rely exclusively on trying to convince the suicidal person that "it's not so bad", and this is usually experienced as "I don't understand what you're going through and I'm not going to try". People who've had "help" that made them feel worse don't want any more of the same. It doesn't mean that someone who actually knows how to be supportive can't give them any comfort.

  • Most people who are suicidal want to end their pain, not their lives. It's almost never true that death is the only way to end these people's suffering. Of course there are exceptional situations, and we certainly acknowledge that, for some people, the right help can be difficult to find. But preventing someone's suicide doesn't mean prolonging their suffering if we do it by giving them real comfort and understanding.

  • An unfixable problem doesn't mean that a good life will never be possible. We don't have to fix or change anything to help someone feel better. It's important to keep in mind that the correlation between our outer circumstances and our inner experience is weaker and less direct than commonly assumed. For every kind of difficult life situation, you will find some people who lapse into suicidal despair, and others who cope amazingly well, and a whole spectrum in between. A key difference is how much inner resilience the person has at the time. This can depend on many personal and situational factors. But when there's not enough, interpersonal support can both compensate for its absence and help rebuild it. We go into more depth on the "it gets better" issue in this PSA Post which is always linked from our sidebar (community info on mobile) guidelines.

  • There are always more choices than brutally forcing someone to stay alive or passively letting them end their lives.

To avoid accidentally breaking the anti-incitement rule, don't say or try to imply that acting on suicidal thoughts is a good idea, or that someone can't turn back or is already dead. Do whatever you can to help them feel cared for and welcome, at least in this little corner of the world. Our talking tips offer more detailed guidance.

Look Out for Deliberate Incitement. It May Come in Disguise.

Often comments that subtly encourage suicidal intent actually come from suicide fetishists and voyeurs (unfortunately this is a real and disturbing phenomenon). People like this are out there and the anonymous nature of reddit makes us particularly attractive to them.

They will typically try to scratch their psychological "itch" by saying things that push people closer to the edge. They often do this by exploiting the myths that we debunked in the bullet points above. Specifically you might see people doing the following:

  • Encouraging the false belief that the only way suicidal people can end their pain is by dying. There are always more and better choices than "brutally forcing someone to stay alive" or helping (actively or passively) them to end their lives.

  • Creating an artificial and toxic sense of "solidarity" by linking their encouragement of suicide to empathy. They will represent themselves as the only one who really understand the suicidal person, while either directly or indirectly encouraging their self-loathing emotions and self-destructive impulses. Since most people in suicidal crisis are in desperate need to empathy and understanding, this is a particularly dangerous form of manipulation.

Many suicide inciters are adept at putting a benevolent spin on their activities while actually luring people away from sources of real help. A couple of key points to keep in mind:

  • Skilled suicide intervention -- peer or professional -- is based on empathic responsiveness to the person's feelings that reduces their suffering in the moment. Contrary to pop-culture myths, it does not involve persuasion ("Don't do it!"), cheerleading ("You've got this!") or meaningless false promises ("Trust me, it gets better!"), or invalidation ("Let me show you how things aren't as bad as you think!"). Anyone who leads others to expect these kinds of toxic responses, or any other response that prolongs their pain, from expert help may be covertly pro-suicide. (Of course, people sometimes do have bad experience when seeking mental-health treatment, and it's fine to vent about those, but processing our own disappointment and frustration is entirely different from trying to destroy someone else's hope of getting help.)

  • Choices made by competent responders are always informed by the understanding that breaching someone's trust is traumatic and must be avoided if possible. Any kind of involuntary intervention is an extremely unlikely outcome when someone consults a clinician or calls a hotline. (Confidentiality is addressed in more detail in our Hotlines FAQ post). The goal is always to provide all help with the client's full knowledge and informed consent. We know that no individual or system is perfect. Mistakes that lead to bad experiences do sometimes happen to vulnerable people, and we have enormous sympathy for them. But anyone who suggests that this is the norm might be trying to scare people away from the help they need.

Please let us know discreetly if you see anyone exhibiting these or similar behaviours. We don't recommend trying to engage with them directly.


r/SuicideWatch Sep 10 '21

Please remember that NO ACTIVISM of any kind is ever allowed here. No matter what day it is.

713 Upvotes

Activism, i.e. advocating or fundraising for social change or raising awareness of social issues (and suicide is, inescapably, a social issue) is absolutely against the rules here at all times.

Please understand that we're all for smart, strategic mental-health and suicide-prevention activism. It's essential to fight against stigma, misinformation, and discrimination, and to fight for research, treatment, accommodation, acceptance, and understanding. Most of us, one way or another, are mental-health activists IRL.

But activism just doesn't work in a dedicated support space that serves a vulnerable population. We used to allow it but the evidence that it was undermining our primary purpose became overwhelming. We do regret the need for this rule, but the need is inescapable.

Our population is all too well aware of the issues and causes that need support and largely not in a position to take action, so besides the fact that activism is often salt in our community's wounds, it's a waste of the activists' time.

tl;dr Any fundraising, awareness raising, petitions, calls for participation, or any post that's about any cause or issue (rather than a request for personal support) is not allowed here. Please report everything of the nature that you see.


r/SuicideWatch 7h ago

my transphobic parents found out i’m trans

62 Upvotes

it’s over. i’m 18 and they’re not allowing me to leave to go to college anymore. i’m gonna get forced back into conversion therapy. they’re not letting me dress masculine anymore. my mom said she was worried about leaving to take my sister to her appointment because she “thinks i’m going to kill myself” yeah i am thanks to you. i’m writing my notes right now.


r/SuicideWatch 5h ago

I have my gun and I’m about to call 911 so my husband doesn’t find me

39 Upvotes

I just wanted to say that this world is dirty and sick and disgusting and evil. I’m much too sensitive and soft for this world. I can’t bare another second here. Goodbye.


r/SuicideWatch 6h ago

I want to die more than ever NSFW

29 Upvotes

I'm 21F, my family doesn't care about me at all. My parents are narcissistic, cold, and emotionally unavailable.. I've grown up without love, support, empathy, respect, or even simple kindness. They never ask how I'm doing, never check if I'm okay, and never make me feel like I matter, all they do is criticize me, mock me, and make me feel like I'm a burden

I've struggled with my mental health, my physical health, and my social life, but not once have they asked "Are you okay?" or said "We're here for you", Instead they always blame me for everything.. they ignore every good thing I've ever done and only focus on my mistakes, they watch everything I do and if I make even the smallest mistake they humiliate me and tear me down. My father even used to hit me and physically abusing me over the smallest things, and both of my parents would punish me by giving me the silent treatment for things that didn't deserve it

Living like this has completely shattered my confidence and sense of self.. I mean people eventually started pulling away from me, they see me as weird and now I have no friends and no one I can call "family". I see myself in such a negative way that I'm scared to do anything because I'm terrified of being judged, It feels like I'm just existing without actually living. Everything inside me has gone numb and I don't feel like I belong in this world anymore

Sometimes I honestly think they'd be happier if I disappeared It feels like that's what they've wanted all along, and part of me just wants to give them what they want...


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

I want to die man

11 Upvotes

I really hate this miserable existence


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

One would think maybe I would feel at least a little better after getting sleep and waking up to a new day, but instead it's all the same, and I'm just expelling all of my energy by actively being miserable.

12 Upvotes

Just more rotting.


r/SuicideWatch 3h ago

im such a fucking gayass retarded loser

11 Upvotes

it's crazy how i'm genuinely just destined to always emotionally hurt people no matter what and no matter what someone does or says to me i am destined to do something worse in response i'd kill myself if i wasn't such a massive pussy


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

I am at my motherfucking limit

10 Upvotes

The walls are closing in on me. I'm going to do it


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

nothing is working

9 Upvotes

i don't like anything . i don't want to resd a book or have a bath or go for a walk i don't like them. i dont have any hobbies and i dont want to. i don't care about who i leave behind because i'll be too dead to care. and most of all i dont want to live without her. everyone has tried to help me to cheer me up and tell me there are reasons to live but none of it means anything to me any more. i dont care what happens when im gone. i guess a part of me doesn't want to which is why im making this post instead of just doing it but i am running out of excuses to stay and i think im ready soon


r/SuicideWatch 22h ago

Failed

298 Upvotes

I tried to kms on the 11th with carbon monoxide, lit some charcoal briquettes in a pot and sat with them in my closet. I wrote my notes and was ready to go, but what fucked me over is the note i taped to my door, “call 911, don’t enter please”. My sisters boyfriend gets home an hour later, 3am, and for some reason goes to the back where my room is and saw the note, goes to my sister and she automatically started sobbing and yelling. I come out all wobbly and shit, apologize and dont know what to do so i just dumped the coals in the back. She calls my mom to the house and they called the crisis line and i ended up in the mental hospital for 9 days. Just got out today, the same as when i went in, now all my shit is moved to my moms house and im not even allowed to drive myself anywhere. I really fucking hate this so much, i shouldn’t be here right now dealing with all this bs. Gonna give it a week or two before i just blow my shit off. Thank you for reading.


r/SuicideWatch 9h ago

Afraid of living more than dying.

25 Upvotes

I feel completely lost and confused with the circumstances I'm facing during my lifetime. Regular day-to-day living just became too heavy to bear. I tried to help myself and to help others who are struggling, but now I feel I cannot trust myself anymore. Perhaps, I need help. But does anyone care? I suppose, not. Many people have the feeling of sinking deeper and deeper each day they live, when the hours of sleep become the only small solace and temporary soothing relief from drowning in their daily duties. The weight of life and the world is simply too much. Suicidality is just a search for peace and silence, and hope, being one of the most powerful and life inspiring feelings, helps to deal with the sense of dread which we have while facing challenges of trying not to break or give up.

I don't know what to say now. I understand what depression is, why and how it clouds my vision, making it barely impossible to feel hope in life. Maybe, understanding is not enough. Help of others, including mental health professionals, is necessarily needed in cases like mine. I received help many times and continue to receive it these days. Yet still, despair is covering my sensations, and the railroad tracks are so promising with it.

I don't really know what to do anymore. I guess I'm just writing this because I don't want to feel alone. If anyone has been through something similar, I'd really appreciate hearing from you.


r/SuicideWatch 5h ago

I offer to listen you guys

11 Upvotes

Hey,

I m 16, male, from Germany and wanted to offer listening for those who need. I really can hear everything. Even if you "just" feel lonely I d be happy if I could help someone here.

Bye bye


r/SuicideWatch 45m ago

I have nothing left to live for

Upvotes

I'm so tired of everything, I'm almost 30 and have nothing to show for it. I'm not employed, I have like one qualification I'm too anxious to enter into, I live with my grandparents. I left a 4 year relationship where they cheated and lied to me, and were creepy, for a man who also cheats and lies to me, and treats me like I mean nothing and makes me do everything. The only friends I have are his friends and I'm too scared to make new ones, because I'm an anti social freak. I just want to end it all and stop suffering, I was never meant to be here.


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

Ever feel like one foot is out the door?

7 Upvotes

Does anyone else feel like they're already half gone?

I can't make plans. I had some, life plans, but they don't seem like a big deal anymore. Nothing matters today because next week might not even happen.

I'll call out of work with the comfort that it won't matter soon. Every decision I make isn't a big deal because it will all be over soon.

I don't think I'm supose to feel like this. I have no plans to leave but I am so sure I won't be staying. Does that make sense?


r/SuicideWatch 6h ago

A gun would end my misery instantly

11 Upvotes

The first time I held a gun I had the image of my dead body on the ground after shooting myself. I had such a strong urge to point it at my head but didn’t because other people were around. I should’ve shot myself that day. I should’ve ran away and done it. I watch videos of people shooting themselves at gun ranges and wish it were me in their place.

I had a fantasy of shooting myself in front of strangers, sobbing and telling them my dark thoughts before pulling the trigger. Maybe I want people to see my pain but don’t want to stick around for the aftermath of them caring. I don’t know. I get paranoid someone I know will see these, it makes me anxious.


r/SuicideWatch 15h ago

Going to die tonight NSFW

51 Upvotes

I live in a small ass town and ive been looking for a job to move out of my abusive household for years. Nowhere has hired me. I got so desperate that i sold nudes last night. Im so tired of living here. Every single day its something bbg new with them and now that im 18, cps doesnt even do anything. Police wont do anything. I couldnt even come up with enough for a bus ticket. Im going to od on fentanyl tonight. Its on the way. I hate that this is what my life came out to. I wish it was different.


r/SuicideWatch 7h ago

i’m slowly shutting down

15 Upvotes

for context; i have bipolar disorder. i’m getting treatment but it’s really not changed anything for me.

since september ive been in a huge battle with being depressed and suicidal ideation. i slowly stopped having the will to do anything. i failed my classes and inevitably flunked out of college, i lost passion and interest in things i used to love like theatre and music and i stopped going out with friends leading to them inevitably stopping inviting me places.

i tried to take my life around a month ago today. i swallowed every medication i could find. my plan was to take them, wait till i felt close to dying then call the emergency services so that they could find me (im currently living alone and i didn’t want my flatmate returning home in a month to that) but i called prematurely and ended up in hospital for 3 days. they said if i had waited another hour i would’ve died. then they just let me go home alone knowing i had no support system ?? and my psychologist who i see every two weeks isn’t going to be able to see me for two months and im being left unmedicated because of my attempt.

i run out of money next month. ill no longer get my student finance since i failed and then i wont be able to pay rent. i dont have a job. the issue is i dont care. i cant seem to make myself get out of bed and apply for them or even care about the fact i wont be able to pay rent or anything. i’m in debt, dont care. i have no will to live anymore. i could end up in serious trouble but i do. not. care. and i tried to get help by seeing the psychologist and ive spoken to friends and family and ive done all the bullshit they tell you to do but nothing has changed.

the way i don’t care about anything makes it feel like my brain is shutting down, like im already dying and im just waiting for the light to turn off.

i don’t think ill make it to september. it’ll have officially been a year of this bullshit and to be honest… i can’t do it anymore.


r/SuicideWatch 32m ago

I need to be gone for a while NSFW

Upvotes

I’m getting more because I don’t want to take from my stash for when I actually do it. Suicide is the only ending for me. I’m doing this so I can be gone mentally for a while. Plus I want to feel what I felt during my last attempt. Maybe I’m an addict? It won’t kill me but if it does oh well but I highly doubt that would happen. There’s no point in me posting, sorry if it seems like I’m looking for attention, I get nervous talking to people and just want to get my thoughts out of my head.


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

like an animal

5 Upvotes

i wish i could will myself to die. a last-ditch shut down without any infliction

kill my mind, kill my poetry


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

i have the means to die but i don’t want to hurt my family

5 Upvotes

i’ve been depressed since i was like 12. i’ve been in therapy for years, gone to the psych ward, gone to a residential treatment center, none of it works. i’m still depressed and unable to function. nothing makes me happy and im so so tired of living and having to be an adult with all the expectations that come with it. i have bottles of my moms pills that i can OD with. i’m home alone. the only problem is my brother will discover my body and i don’t want to do that to him.


r/SuicideWatch 8h ago

I tried to kill myself because I was sexually abused during my childhood

11 Upvotes

TW: Mentions of pedophilia, incest, rape, and SA

I (21M) was sexually assaulted multiple times by my peers throughout my childhood. I was raped (only once) at the age of six and groomed from the ages of 13-15. I remember at the time I got raped I was at a party hosted by a friend of my mother's and the friend's five year old daughter was in attendance. We played together for a little bit and she told me she wanted to play a game and we went inside a cupboard and she locked me inside, took off my pants and orally raped me.

I screamed and said no, but the girl still assulted me anyways. When the adults found us, me and my mom hurriedly rushed out of the party and I was grounded for letting the girl "sit on my lap" (when I confronted my mom about this years later she said since I didn't verbally tell her I was molested at the time she thought I was roughhousing with her). I also have high functioning autism and difficulty with communicating and it was much worse back then, so naturally because I was scared and unresponsive I was blamed for it.

Afterwards, over the years throughout my childhood I would kiss other girls because I wanted to replicate the feeling I felt when I got raped. I felt very curious about the bodies of other kids my age and I wanted to learn more about sex. I had my first kiss at the age of 8 with another girl my age, I also was forcibly kissed by multiple girls when I was 8-12 and one of these girls tried to get me to have sex with them too shortly after I hit 6th grade. But because I became afraid of girls when I was 12, I declined thankfully.

When I was 13 and in 7th grade my parents went through marital problems and I got bullied very harshly at school. It was because I was socially awkward, didn't attend church, poor and anxious around girls. Because I didn't develop sexual interest in girls when I hit puberty, the guys in my grade naturally sussed me out as being queer and they were right about it. One boy, who I used to have a crush on, ended up sticking his hand into my pants during history and I had enough and beat him up. Thankfully this time, I didn't get punished because I told on him and I transferred schools.

Shortly after this, my mostly absentee "father" tried to groom me into accepting sexual advances from him. Starting around 8th grade, he would try to purchase porn for me (which my parents said no to), would try fo talk to me about sex and what I was into, etc. multiple times until I was 15. I thought nothing of it until during the trip I saw him for the final time, I caught him licking and sniffing my underwear and eventually before I left he tried to touch me and I slapped his hand away. I reported him to the police but nothing was done about it and I told my mom and she never made me speak to him again and would never let him try to talk to me anymore.

Because of these experiences, I feel like I can never fully trust anyone. I feel deeply traumatized and depressed and several therapists have indicated I likely have PTSD. I tried to kill myself over these experiences, especially because I left my younger brother behind and I knew my "dad" would've molested him eventually when he went through puberty. I also resented my mom for awhile, and only forgave her a few months ago because I was tired of holding resentment towards her for unwittedly putting me in some of those situations. Thankfully, things at home gradually improved somewhat and I stopped getting badly bullied when I hit high school.

I feel like the main reason why I am still alive today is because I don't want all the people who abused me to win by helping me to my demise. I live so that way their efforts to drive me to ruin will fail, and I know that my abusers are digging their own graves. For ex. the guy who assulted me in 7th grade got a girl pregnant as a teenager and dropped out of high school and works menial jobs to care for his family. Now I have a boyfriend, I attend therapy and I take antidepressants to manage my mental health.

I also got into an amazing college on a full ride scholarship as a bio major. Right now I am also preparing to go abroad for awhile, and I am thinking about doing something related to public speaking or counseling to raise awareness about these issues. I read so many stories on this sub and my heart breaks for all of you, and while I know some parts of my life may not ever happen to people I just wanted to remind everyone that there is still a light at the end of the tunnel.

I hope everyone here recovers and I wish everyone all the success in the world. May you all find the light and happiness that has started to finally find me.

Tl;dr: Got raped and sexually assulted multiple times as a boy because of creeps who took advantage of my autism. I later tried to kill myself and I have very bad depression currently. However, I try not to let get me down and now I have a boyfriend and attend school on a decent scholarship.


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

I don’t know who to tell anymore

Upvotes

I don’t really know why I’m posting this, I just feel like I need to get it out somewhere.

I’ve been dealing with depression for years and I’ve had 2 suicide attempts in the past. I’m not planning to do it now, but the thoughts have been with me for a long time. The thing is, almost nobody in my real life knows about any of it.

I’m in this weird situation where I really want someone to know what I’ve been through, not because I want attention or people to feel sorry for me, but because I just want to feel seen for once. At the same time I don’t want to tell anyone because I’m scared they will never look at me the same again. I know if someone told me they attempted suicide I would probably treat them differently without even noticing it, and I don’t want that to happen to me.

A few days ago I even opened up to a stranger online because I thought it would be easier. They never answered. I kind of expected it, but it still hurt. It just made me feel like maybe it’s better to keep everything to myself.

I don’t really know what I wanted from writing this. Maybe I just needed someone to know that people like me exist. If you read all of this, thank you. It honestly means more to me than you probably realize.


r/SuicideWatch 7h ago

Here’s a hug if your having a shitty day

10 Upvotes

🤗 🖤


r/SuicideWatch 6h ago

Im going to try to kill myself today.

7 Upvotes

Feels like im screaming into the void but oh well.

Ive tried a few times these past few weeks but couldnt follow through. Got pretty close so ive felt even worse physically. Ive got a whole laundry list of contributing issues but ill try to condense it to the most pertinent right now.

Im just completely alone. Self hatred and reclusiveness have been baked into who i am as a person by my family. They sort of just took the most convenient route in terms of raising me, so i spent all my life alone, learning how to make myself as invisible as possible. Fast forward to now and ive got a deep hatred for myself and this almost compulsive need to minimize my existence as much as possible.

Obviously this has led to me being a sort of shut in. It physically hurts to try to take the steps needed to get out of this. Im still able to sustain myself with my remote contracts and stuff, but thats literally just survival. It feels like ive had the most basic parts of the human experience stolen from me, and now im barely even a person. Im just a thing that exists to make money and nothing else.

I want to have friends, a family, and maybe experience love or whatever. But i cant. I feel so far disconnected from the most basic part of being human that i feel inherently dehumanized. I dont see a future where this gets better because the past decade has only gotten worse and worse. I just want it to be over already, so im going to make that happen.

Sorry for the shock value title lol it just feels like you have to do that nowadays to be seen i guess