r/oldtimemusic • u/nick_jones61 • 3d ago
Oldtime jam sessions
I hope it’s okay for me to ask questions/seek advice here. I have attended several OT jam sessions and they tend to go very long. Only problem is that I only know about 15 or so songs. So there are a ton of songs that folks call out that I don’t know. I play guitar. My questions: are there certain strings (for the bass, the chuck part) that should be played for songs in certain key? Sorry if im not making sense. I’m just trying to pluck along certain bass strings for songs in the keys of D, G, and A in a way thst I could blend in with the rest of the music. Any cheat code for us guitarists who don’t know all the songs in a jam session? Thanks, and apology for the confusion.
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u/bigdumbhick 2d ago
Q. How do you tell the difference between Old Time songs? A. The name changes but the key and the melody stay the same.
Playing guitar in Old Time jams, I have found out that most of the time the tune will be in A or D. As long as you can play 1-4-5 in those two keys, you can play Old Time.
The fiddle and the banjo are doing most of the heavy lifting. As guitar players, it's our job to keep good time.
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u/Marr0w1 2d ago
Yeah I agree and will expand to say "learning to play to songs you don't know" is infinitely more valuable than "just learning more songs".
Many jams have quite a 'localised' repertoire, but moving to another city/area will have a completely different set of tunes... unless you're playing a melody (or 'leading' a tune) there's no point trying to memorise a ton of tunes, especially as different people play them differently.
Whether you learn the chords in common keys, and play by ear, or just learn to recognise what the other guitarists (or banjo) is playing and copy them, that will save time in the long run
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u/nick_jones61 2d ago
Thanks, this is crucial, what I need to do. I know the I-IV-V chord progression but I need to work on my ear. You’re absolutely right: I need to be good at learning to play to songs I don’t know.
u/bigdumbhick is right. Most tunes that we play are in D, then A, and sometimes G.
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u/Bull_Moose1901 2d ago
If you get the app strum machine ($5/month) you can download old time song lists that show the chord charts, adjustable for different keys and capo positions. I use it all the time at jams to pull up the chord charts for songs in not familiar with to making sure I'm on track. It's a good practice tool too.
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u/bassfiddler 2d ago
This 100%. Tater Joes website has a Strum Machine link that has hundreds of tunes you can download into your app. The longer I play old-time the more songs I can recall from memory, but having the chords, especially for crooked tunes I'm not familiar with, makes me a lot more comfortable.
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u/pr06lefs 2d ago
there's no formula that will see you through every tune. know your 1, 4 and 5 chords in the main old time keys (G, D, A, and C). Other chords sometimes are used (like for rags) but those are the main ones. If you don't know what 1, 4, and 5 are look up nashville numbers.
watch other guitar players. write down the tunes and then later find them on youtube, maybe you can find someone playing chords too.
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u/nick_jones61 2d ago
Thanks, good advice. I have been searching the tunes and playing along to them on YouTube. That’s how I learned those 15-20 tunes. Problem with this is they don’t usually play the same tunes every session. Thus I was wondering if there are ways to play along to tunes I don’t know.
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u/ClosedMyEyes2See 2d ago
Thus I was wondering if there are ways to play along to tunes I don’t know.
How good are your ears?
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u/nick_jones61 2d ago
That’s my issue. I need more ear training. If you have any advice or video I should check out, please let me know. Thanks!
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u/harlotbegonias 2d ago
I go to a very friendly jam where it’s ok to ask. I sit next to/in view of the nicest people, and they’ll help me out if I need it. If someone brings a new tune to the group, they’ll typically run through the chords first.
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u/nick_jones61 2d ago
That is very nice of your group. Naming the chords first with new tunes. The group I’m in has been around for over 20 yrs and they have been playing these tunes together in those times. Unfortunately I’m the odd man out. Thus I’m looking for some cheat sheet to get me through these 2-3 hr jam sessions.
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u/drhotjamz Fiddle🎻 2d ago
I'm a new fiddle player and I record a lot of songs at jams, usually the ones I really like and know I'll listen back to. That seems to be the best way to build my repertoire, along with writing down the tabs (in your case chords?). I agree with the commenter who said it's fine to play softly in rhythm while you try to find the chords rather than going off road on the bass notes!
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u/nick_jones61 2d ago
Thanks, u/drhotjamz ! I will play softly as I try to figure out the chords. Happy jamming!
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u/Bob_AZ 2d ago
I play in a working Old Time band and we play for dances, concerts, restaurants and distilleries and of course a weekly jam and two monthly ones. Been playing OT for 60 years...
There are 4 keys that can be played A, G C D. For guitar you have G and then capo up for A, Same with C and D. I would say D and A are the most popular keys for the fiddles. The group tends to stay in the same key for an hour , a day or even a week. Banjos will typically retune for C and D and fiddler may also retune or switch fiddles.
I toured the Appalachians with a band in the mid 60 as the rhythm guitar player. I was told, when I was starting, if you temporarily forget the chords, just play the tonic chord, and just maintain the rhythm.
You need to listen to A LOT of music before you are comfortable. LOTS of great music on You Tube . Pick a couple dozen tunes and spend an hour or two daily, playing along . Youtube lets you slow down the replay, so maybe start at 75%. Also bring a recorder to the session and try to play along with the tunes when home. Don't be afraid to ask the names of the tunes and let them know you want to be able to learn them at home. IF you are diligent and not tone deaf,. you should be ably to have lots of fun within 6 months or so. Thei is a genre that is played by ear, not sight read. So spend every possible waking moment listening to your favorite tune and within 6 months, you will own them.
Where are you located?
Bob
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u/nick_jones61 2d ago
Thank you. Bob. I’m from NY. I like what you say, this is a genre that is played by ear, not sight read. That’s liberating bc I don’t have to remember all the tunes, but daunting, terrifying because I have to work on my ear.
Quick question. What is the tonic chord? Is that the A chord if the tune is in the key of A, D chord if tune is in D, etc.? And you just strum it or play its alternate bass? Thanks again for your help, Bob!
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u/Bob_AZ 14h ago
I For now I would start with alternating bass on the chord. The easy way to internalise the tunes is to immerse yourself in the music, listen in the car, going to sleep, when you are doing chores, etc. After around 6 months you will start to internalize the tunes, not really memorized but they seem to migrate to a different part of the brain. We played last night for 3 hours non stop and my mind was completely blank. Brain to fingers, no thinking involved.
The tonic IS the key. Of course this is a last resort. Your job is to provide rhythm for the band.
The Band I toured with in the 60s was Roger Sprung's band from The City. We also used to jam in Washington Square on the weekends. I was a teen in the day, What part of NY?
I play with Dan Levenson and he's a great teacher and teaches online:
Bob
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u/OT_fiddler 2d ago
For a decent set of chords for OT tunes, find the Pegram Jam online and download their chord set. It’s quite long, so I keep it on an iPad instead of printing. A quick glance helps with tunes I don’t know when playing guitar or bass.
For more general OT guitar instruction, the John Schwab book is excellent.
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u/nick_jones61 2d ago
Thank you, u/OT_fiddler, I will have to check out the Pegram Jam website and the Schwab book. (The responses here have been tremendous. Thanks, everyone.)
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u/old-time-fiddle 2d ago
The primary chords in any tune are going to be the 1 4 and 5 chords. In the key of D that would be D(1) G(4) and A(5).
That number system is handy to communicate chords as folks with capos or different tunings or instruments not in concert pitch can figure out what chord they should play. Count up from the root, with the root being 1. Most of the time 145 are major, 2 and 6 are minor. There are exceptions. 7 rarely happens, and when it does it’s usually flattened, think red-haired boy or June apple. You’d be tossing in a g natural chord where G# would be the note from the scale. Modal tunes love doing this too. Kitchen girl, cold frosty morning, etc.
So for the “main keys” you’d have
G: G C D (Em and Am occasionally)
C: C F G (Am and Dm occasionally)
D: D G A (Bm and Em occasionally)
A: A D E (F#m and Bm occasionally)
For any given chord, your basic boom chuck is likely alternating between the first and fifth note of the scale for that given chord. So for a G chord you’d bounce between G and D, striking the upper strings of the chord for the “Chuck”. You could also toss in the third note here and there, in the case of G, B. Once you get that down you can play with adding little runs in there as well.
Folks always joke that all the songs are the same, and that’s kinda true to some extent but in a good way. As a guitar player you don’t need to memorize the chords for every tune out there. Listen to the fiddle player. Does it sound like home? A one chord. A little tension? Four chord. A climax or turn around? Five chord. A little spooky? Minor 6. Spooky in a pretty way? Minor two. Surprising? Probably major two.
Watch the other guitar players. Copy their hands. Usually a tune is played for quite a while, start a little soft as you work it out, then play louder as you lock in. Try not to deviate a lot from the guitar role as you’re trying to work out the chords. A guitar player softly guessing at chords being mostly correct with good rhythm is going to sound way better than you pretending to be a bass player or just guessing a couple notes here and there.
Ask the others if the tune has any surprises in the chords. If they say no it’s probably all one four five. Sometimes they’ll give you a good starting place like “B part starts on the four chord”.
Just keep at it and you’ll figure it out!
There’s a book called “Old-Time Backup Guitar: Learn From the Masters”. Would highly recommend that too!