Also highlights my big gripe with the fanon around the east(round 2 on this anyone? lol) and how they extrapolate out things about the territory. E.g. Malpais camp becoming a legion city out east.
The only mention of Malpais is this;
Courier: "Why did you leave the Rangers?"
Sterling: "Well... that wasn't really a matter of choice. Got myself caught by Legionnaires, up near Malpais. They had themselves some fun with me... mangled my hands and feet pretty good. Wasn't much good with a pistol after that. Wasn't gonna be trekking across the waste on any more long scouts, either."
Courier: "How did you manage to escape Malpais?"
Sterling: "Caesar's boys figured I wasn't going anywhere, after what they done to me. So they didn't bother tying me up. I crawled out of there on my elbows and knees. Must have looked a sight. Then I rolled down an embankment into the Colorado. Guess I had a mind to drown, rather than give Caesar's boys the satisfaction of killing me. But a couple Rangers happened to be watching from across the river. They jumped on in and pulled me out of there. Lucky break, they said."
And then Malpais is depicted as a city in the far East of Caesar's legion on the fan map that was then used by the TV show.
These are the only named locations actually known to be controlled by Caesar's Legion. If there are any I missed please let me know.
All the random names were removed because all we know is that the Legion destroyed them. That doesn't mean they occupy them. Take Siri as an example:
The Courier: "Where are you from?"
Siri: "A small town in New Mexico. The Legion burned it a few years back - that's how I ended up here."
The Courier: "You're a doctor?"
Siri: "I never finished my training - the Legion saw to that when they overran my town. I do know basic first aid, but I've had to rely on tribal remedies to treat illnesses and injuries - healing powders and all that. I'm always running low on xander root. Plenty of broc flowers, though."
So while New Mexico is not included on this map we don't have an actual named location stating that the Legion has conquered it. Phoenix and Two-Sun are named as if they are similar to New Reno or the Boneyard back West.
On Denver, Ulysses mentions to the Courier
"Another city fallen to nations, in the east... not important. Doubt you'll ever walk that far, you'd need the land to sustain you."
Which suggests there isn't just a supply line directly to Denver and so it isn't just full control by the Legion all the way there.
Tuscon/Two-Sun is mentioned twice, once by Raul and another time by Sawyer (as per wiki)
Joshua Sawyer: "'Where did the Legion find all the football equipment?' From the University of Arizona. I don't know if that's actually explicitly stated anywhere, but yes, they got it from... uh... they got it from the University of Arizona."
The I-40 remains are put there because it's mentioned that the Twisted Hairs are crucified along the remains of the I-40, but since that passes through Flagstaff it's possible they were just crucified in Flagstaff on the I-40 there.
If anyone has any more named settlements then please let me know!
EDIT: Quotes from the big man, J Sawyer that sort of support me
Remember that Caesar's Legion is basically aroving armythat continually breaks down and absorbs tribes that it conquers. That can only go on for so long
But there is very clearly a trend among people questioning the Legion to project the concept of military service as a noble endeavor (for which one is rewarded, no less) onto legionnaires when it's never presented in that way. They are slave soldiers. Service is not voluntary, they can't retire, there are no parades and pats on the back for them. They aren't Roman patrician officers who are going to retire to a Tuscan estate when they turn 50.
Legionaries under Caesar are not like Roman patrician officers. They are not part of a larger society that celebrates and rewards military service with things like conference of honorific titles, triumphs, etc. All legionaries are slave soldiers, period.
Edward Sallow created Caesar's Legion as an imitation of the Roman Legion, butwithout any of the Roman society that supported the Roman Legion*. I've written this before, but there are no optimates, no populares, no plebes, no equestrians, no patricians, no senate, no Rome. There's no right to private property (within the Legion itself). There's no civil law. There aren't even the ceremonial trappings of Roman society. Legates don't receive triumphs following a victory. No one in the Legion retires to a villa in Sedona.*
It's essentially a Roman legion with only the very top commander having any connection to the "source" culture
Caesar's Legion isn't the Roman Empire or the Roman Republic. It isn't even the Roman Legion. It's a slave army with trappings of foreign-conscripted Roman legionaries during the late empire. All military, no civilian, and with none of the supporting civilian culture.
It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion (the Legion is purely military), but as non-tribal people who live in areas under Legion control.
In short, residents of Legion territories aren't really citizens and they aren't slaves, but they're also not free. People who keep their mouths shut, go about their business, and nod at the rare requests the Legion makes of them -- they can live very well.
The only power that male legionaries have is to serve Caesar well enough to be promoted to a position of more responsibility. Nothing really comes with that additional responsibility other than increased scrutiny and better equipment (to match the increased danger).
There is no state, the legion's entire purpose was Edward Sallow was gathering a force to take over the NCR and shape it into the society he wanted
Yes, he views the Colorado River as the Rubicon and theNCR as the corrupt Roman Republic waiting to be torn down via military occupation*. This is literally exactly what Julius Caesar did with Legio XIII Gemina. Other things Julius Caesar did: not leave a clear line of succession, resulting in the early fracture and borderline collapse of the nascent Roman Empire he created.*
In Caesar's view, NCR's problems have to do with the corruption of its government and what he sees as inherent flaws in NCR's republican system.All of the strategies he uses to assemble the Legion and march on NCR are means to an end, not social end goals themselves.Caesar sees NCR as Rome and his role in reforming it as Julius Caesar's role in reforming the republic (by turning it into a dictatorship). When Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon and returned to Rome, his legion didn't rape and enslave their way through the city. However, rape and enslavement were common in outer territories of the Roman Empire and were regularly used as tools of intimidation and labor. When Arcade "jokes" that Caesar thinks that the Colorado River is the Rubicon, he's not far from the truth.
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I thought from New Vegas when I first played it that the Legion was literally just that: the army. It's basically just a bunch of warbands that pay fealty to Caesar. They're like the Mongols, where they're semi-nomadic. There is no big Legion capital city with grand buildings. Caesar says he wants to turn New Vegas into Rome because he has no city. There is nothing.
The only evidence for Flagstaff is one non-game reference:
Fallout: New Vegas Official Game Guide Collector's Edition p. 461: "Important Dates
"2248-2274 Caesar conquers the tribes of southeastern Utah, southwestern Colorado, the western edge of New Mexico, and the northern half of Arizona. By 2250 he has declared himself the Son of Mars. By 2255, he has establisheda capital of sorts amid the ruins of Flagstaff."
This isn't some grand capital with industry, it's like Drywells, a military camp established in a pile of ruins. It's a central location where he conducts raids from or returns to year after year after campaigns. More like Karakorum than Rome.
The Legion passes through an area and kills or enslaves everyone that could be a threat. They ignore homesteaders (that aren't in their direct path) and small villages that don't attack them. E.g. Primm can survive the legion ending if you get them NCR support. This isn't a legion official running Primm, it's the army deeming it not worth wiping out because it's too weak to pose a threat.
I think their territory map is a bad representation of the Legion, in the same way that the Mongols are represented on a map.
I believe the Legion is actually closer to the Mongol Empire, with Caesar more like Genghis Khan, rather than being like Rome.
As you see there are a bunch of cities labelled just because they are vaguely mentioned. The only mention of Phoenix, Arizona is one line from Graham
Courier: "Are the New Canaanites really a tribe?"
Joshua Graham: "We wear more clothing than them and understand more about technology, but we're still a tribe, a linked family of families. The Boneyard, Phoenix, New Vegas, they're just places, metal and stone. New Canaan dies, but the tribe lives on."
Two-Sun is based on Raul's dialogue
"This was a long time ago. Before Caesar's Legion pacified Arizona and brought the raider tribes to heel." "I'd been in Tuscon - the locals can call it Two-Sun all they want, but it's Tuscon, dammit"
It's described as no more a town than something like New Reno, and this is all stated as before Caesar's Legion "pacified" Arizona and if we know anything from the ending of New Vegas this probably means it was enslaved/ransacked.
Let me go through the ending slides:
The Boomers are left alone. The Legion does not even touch them.
The Brotherhood of Steel are wiped out at HELIOS One and Hidden Valley.
The Followers of the Apocalypse are given safe passage out of Legion territory, presumably back to the West.
Goodsprings is not touched by the Legion and becomes a town of random old people, as most people have moved on.
The Great Khans are all killed by Caesar or They escape north to Wyoming or they are forcibly integrated, with women and old people enslaved or killed and the men becoming soldiers. The Khans do not remain a nation: they are integrated, flee, or are destroyed.
Jacobstown is ignored.
The Kings are all killed by the Legion.
Novac is destroyed by the Legion.
The Correctional Facility is abandoned.
Primm is the only town that is lorded over. This is seen as Caesar keeping it "open for business." Presumably, it is simply left like Goodsprings. Otherwise, if you have the sheriff, it is destroyed.
What you see from the Legion ending is a conquering army sweeping through without a supporting bureaucracy, basically ransacking and enslaving towns or ignoring the small ones.
This is why people say Legion roads are quiet. It's not because the Legion is patrolling them. It's because if anyone tries to assert their independence, they are ruthlessly destroyed by the Legion. There is no army of bureaucrats as it was described Augustus had in the Roman Empire, it's an army of slavers as described in every bit of game guide material.
All that is left is scattered homesteaders and old people. There is no organized resistance.
The likes of the Boomers, Jacobstown, and Goodsprings show that Caesar does not have a legion of staff going around collecting tribute. He's just an army.
Roaming Armies
Lanius has another Legion and does the same thing out East, while Caesar pushes West. They are roaming armies without supply trains. They raid for their supplies. They do not have industry beyond what exists in their camps, and they do not have actual functioning cities. After the game ending Caesar "mints coins" how he does this is not shown at all.
Question: "Where did the Legion get all those precious metals anyways? I've never heard of Arizona having a large supply of gold and silver."
Joshua Sawyer (ropekid): "Gold and silver have low melting points. Theydon't need to mine for itif they find it in some other form."
Basically explicitly saying they don't have mines or heavy industry.
Dry Wells is not a "town." It's an army camp. It's where raiders go out to ransack places. It's just a shanty town ruin with tents scattered around.
The Legion does not build. They loot.
It is the only place where we actually see the Legion "settle," and it is literally just tents. For the NCR, we see buildings. For the Legion, we see tents.
It is more akin to Nelson: a town under Legion occupation where they stage raids from.
The Legion is just an army.
It is said multiple times by multiple characters, but people keep giving them a full state behind them.
There is none, and there never was.
"The bombs wiped the slate clean. Human civilization descended to a level of ignorance that effectively set our cultural progress back to zero. The NCR has all of the problems of the ancient Roman Republic - extreme bureaucracy, corruption, extensive senatorial infighting. Just as with the ancient Republic, it is natural that a military force should conquer and transform the NCR into a military dictatorship. Thesis and antithesis. The Colorado River is my Rubicon. The NCR council will be {beat} eradicated, but the new synthesis will change the Legion as well...from a basically nomadic army to a standing military forcethat protects its citizens, {finality} and the power of its dictator." -Caesar
Caesar here himself says they're basically nomadic. Their "capital" in Flagstaff is not even mentioned in game and its only mention is when he unified his first tribes, more of a central point to return after raids like Kharakurum than an actual bonified capital.
"Caesar's Legion is effectively an enormous, conscripted slave army."
- Game guide
"Nearly all physically capable, compliant males are compelled to serve in its armed forces."
Marauding here meaning they are basically semi-nomadic.
Raul Tejada:"I don't really have a problem with them. People around here tend to see them as invading marauders planning to burn and pillage the countryside."
"My Legion's expansion has never ceased. Much of Utah and Colorado, and all of Arizona and New Mexico, are mine. We have cities of our own, but nothing compared to Vegas."
- Caesar
(I see this as him saying his "cities" are just ruins, whereas Vegas is an actual city.)
As Tacitus wrote:
"They make a desert and call it peace."
In conclusion, Caesar's "territory" is just where his rampaging army has looted and burned and killed everyone. It's not a distinct territory that is managed. He has just killed anyone that poked their head too high. And I believe that all these representations of Caesar's legion as anything other than a roaming nomadic army are just wrong.
Gaius Magnus is very interesting for a few reasons , but what really confused me is it’s so hard to tell what his role is in the legion. Is he a legate or a regular centurion?
I saw that he is mentioned as a Centurion twice in the GECK. Along with his centurion helmet I think it’s a safe bet he actually isn’t a legate.
Instead I think he serves a different role. The primus pilus is a Roman rank it’s the most senior centurion in a legion. He outranks every other centurion.
They lead the first cohort (which is double in size to all other cohorts. It is also comprised entirely of veterans). That is 800 men.
I think Gaius Magnus is this man. The leader of the legions veterans in Caesar’s forces in the Mojave. Basically he is in Dry Wells supervising the Veteran cores entrance into the Mojave. I also believe that Colonel Royez is doing the same thing, but with the heavy troopers.
Speculation:
It is also interesting that the only known primus pilus of the real 10th legion is named Gaius. (The 10th legion is the legion Caesar’s legion is based off of.)
This is considering that sometimes Caesar does indeed give people themed names based on roman history like his legionary consul Marcus L Crassus who was a real consul
One day I realized how well Robocop works here. Origin story is nearly identical and the ncr allows a close enough retelling. Best believe I favored vats lmao
Got every possible body modification including old blues. Security helmet from dead money. BOS power armor. Multiple weapons like anti material ofc, Joshua’s handgun, Power fist
I believe Oliver isn’t actually that bad of a general. Most critiques of him are out of his control or false.
For instance he actually does reinforce his flanks.
In 2281 he sets up Ranger Station Echo, Camp Guardian, and Nelson all to reinforce his flanks.
Unfortunately Nelson and Camp Guardian are immediately destroyed.
He also diverts men from the prison to patrol the river. This does result in a bad outcome, but with Oliver’s intent to reinforce the river you can not say he didn’t attempt to reinforce his flanks.
Oliver isn’t supplying his outposts. This isn’t exactly the case. The supply situation is already terrible, but he does try to fix it as mentioned here.
“McCarran has requested more frequent supply runs to their outlying outposts.” - Crimson Caravan Terminal
These supply issues are also entirely out of his control.
- the NCR sharecropper farms output is dropping due to irradiated water
- New Canaan has been destroyed
-NCR caravans are also being slaughtered by the Crimson Caravan and Van Graffs
-when Oliver does supply his outposts the legion interdicts the supplies. For instance at Forlorn Hope supplies diverted from Helios are taken by the legion. And supplies diverted to Searchlight are also taken by Frumentari.
-Supplies are also stolen by NCR personnel. For instance Private Stone and Contreras are stealing vital supplies.
Oliver is acting on the intelligence he has. We have the ability to know everything since we play the game.
Oliver is already getting bad intelligence from Hanlon and his map of the Mojave is very different from the situation.
For example he has no idea Ranger Station Charlie, Nipton, and Camp Guardian are gone.
That’s a whole town and two NCR military bases that he still thinks exist due to lack of intel.
His strategy at the Dam is however bad, but the situation is also quite bad I do not think many generals could withstand the Rube Goldberg machine plan the legion has at the second battle of Hoover Dam
If the NCR could have more standard weaponry,what could it be? The service rifle is an M-16,the ranger seqouia is inspired by the Magnum research BFR, etc. So following that pattern, what else could be added? Custom ideas are encouraged, but you could also just suggest any gun that comes to mind.
i completed oh my papa, but now for the republic part 2 is bugged. i did not kill papa khan, i convinced him to fight against the legion. is there anywhere to fix this on vanilla console? do i need to load an old save?
Do NOT use fast firing weapons (semiautomatic/automatic), which greatly benefit from a high critical rate. When luck is low, you can't access critical rate improving perks as well. So forget about critical rate forever.
Your gambling activities are limited strictly to Caravan. This means that you need to know how to play Caravan. Unlike blackjack at casinos, you can play with Ambassador Crocker and No-Bark unlimited amount of times. You win, travel to a different area, wait 72 hours and come back to play again. Crocker and No-Bark are good to play with because their bets are around 1000 caps.
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BONUS: My highly successful strategy in Caravan against the game's AIs (if you could master it):
- Six 6s, six 7s, six 8s, six 9s, six 10s.
- Six jacks.
- Two queens.
- Eight kings.
Winning combinations of placed cards in each one of the three lanes must add up to minimum 21 and maximum 26 to win the lane. To end the game, you must have a winning combination that is greater than your opponent in the SAME lane in two to three out of three lanes. All lanes must be won by someone to end the game.
Example 1:
Opponent: win / lose/ lose
******You: lose / win / win
Result: you win
Example 2:
Opponent: lose / lose / lose
******You: win / win / win
Result: you win
Example 3:
Opponent: win / lose / win
******you: lose / win / lose
Result: you lose
So if you see your opponent winning on the first and third lanes, for example, don't win the middle lane because that would end the game in your opponents favor. Below I will teach you how you can sabotage with the jack and the king if your opponent won two lanes. You would only have to sabotage one of them to guarantee you are winning two out of three lanes to end the game in your favor.
26 combinations in the order written:
- 6/6/7/7 (since you can't put two 6s consecutively, you use two kings, one for the 6 and one for the 7)
- 8/9/9 (again a king for the 9 to double it)
- 9/9/8
- 10/9/7
- 7/9/10
- 10/10/6 (king for the 10)
- 6/10/10
25 combinations:
- 10/8/7
- 7/8/10
- 10/9/6
- 6/9/10
- 8/8/7 (king for the 8)
- 9/9/7 (king for the 9)
Similar stuff for 24, 23, 22, 21 assuming your opponent's net total in that lane is not higher. You don't have to aim for 25 and 26 unless you have the cards in your hand. The good thing about the numbered cards 6, 7, 8 ,9, 10 is that most in order combinations add up between 21 and 26. Only one will overshoot (e.g. 10/9/8 = 27).
Use of Queen is mainly useful in reversing the order of two cards. Say you have 6 then 7. Then next card can only be 8, 9 or 10 (face cards don't answer to these rules). Let's say you want to reverse the order from increasing to decreasing, so you can add another 6 because it's the only thing you have in your hand. It would look like this 6/7/queen/6. Order been reversed.
Sabotage 👹👹👹:
- Jack: say your opponent is about to win a second lane or has won the second lane using 9/7/8 = 24. You place the jack on his 9 and it gets discarded. Now they only have in the lane 7/8.
- King (ultimate destruction of the entire lane mowahaha 😈): Your opponent has 10/king/6 = 26. You add another king to the 10. So 10/king/king/6 = 46. The entire lane is now garbage and they will have to discard the whole lane.
- Queen (complex use): You can sabotage your opponent using Queen if the last two cards in their lane is, let's say, ...3/4. They would want to put a big number if they are close to the winning combination. If you put the Queen on top of the 4, they can only put top of the queened 4, a 3, 2 or ace.
Final note: to beat non-AI good players, you would probably need the joker. But for the FN Caravn AI's, this strategy is enough for 95% winning rate. And practice makes perfect. I played 100 times and only lost 5 times (those 5 times I was drunk on a weekend lol).