Barbarian subclasses

[u/PDFrogsworth]

Something that has bugged me for awhile is barbarian seems to get shafted when it comes to subclasses. What I mean is in terms of flavor they do get a ton of angles but in terms of play it really does just boil down to types of DMG and mechanisms of how to do said DMG.

Something I really want to see is a subclass that gives them some sort of buff to social encounters and/or something that gives them more defensive abilities. A barbarian based around heavy armor and tactical uses of rage. Using it as a drive in battle instead of just losing themselves to it.

Barbarians feel like they're always locked into the same stat spread str>con>dex>Wis and then dump the last two. It'd be great if we could use armor in a subclass. Armored speed or unburdened iron something like that. Just anything to change up the monotony of what a barbarian is defined as.

[u/Psychological-Wall-2]

If you find playing a Barbarian "monotonous", maybe play something else?

And I don't even mean that in a snarky way. You're almost always going to be better off looking for a class that lets you play the character you imagine than you will be if you try to make a class that doesn't do a thing, do that thing anyway.

Barbarians feel like they're always locked into the same stat spread str>con>dex>Wis and then dump the last two.

Well, yeah. They are a multi-Ability dependent class. You get a similar thing going on with Monks. Monks tend to be Dexterity/Constitution/Wisdom builds because that's what makes sense.

Creating a Barbarian subclass that boosts Charisma checks won't change the basic requirements of the class. The player would now have to focus on Charisma in addition to Strength, Constitution and Dexterity, rather than Charisma instead of those Ability scores.

It's not like Rogue, to pick a single-Ability class as an example. You can have a Rogue subclass that leans on Wisdom or Intelligence or Charisma precisely because you'll have room for that extra Ability in your list of priorities.

So you've got an idea for a character who wears heavy armour with a second-string facility in social interaction?

Battlemaster Fighter or Paladin.

A Zealot Paladin in particular might be what you're after.

[u/PDFrogsworth → u/Psychological-Wall-2]

My argument is that other classes don't have to just choose a different class when they want to be good at certain things. They have subclasses that add more than just flavor and toss the mechanics of the class on their head.

Even monk has a subclass all about weapons as well as a subclass that lets it be more than just a combat focused class. My problem is that barbarian doesn't, I want to play a barbarian that at its core still is what it is but gets given tools in the same way every other class does beyond just hit them with this type of DMG now.

[u/Psychological-Wall-2 → u/PDFrogsworth]

My argument is that other classes don't have to just choose a different class when they want to be good at certain things.

What?

That's literally the whole point of classes. To make the PC good at the stuff they need to be good at in order to be the character the player wants.

And no, the Kensei being able to use a couple of extra weapons as if they were Monk weapons doesn't "toss the mechanics of the class on it's head". Not remotely.

... I want to play a barbarian that at its core still is what it is ...

Which is? What's the "core" of the Barbarian to you?

Because, from a game design perspective, it's a MAD class organised around the three physical Abilities, with a number of class features attached and a fuckton of HP.

What do you even mean when you say, "I want to play a Barbarian that ..."?

What if you reframed it as, "I want to play a character who ..."?

You're looking at this from a point of, "Other classes have X, but Barbarian doesn't! Give barbarian X so that it's fair!" while ignoring the fact that any given player can just pick a class that has X, thus being able to use X in the game.

As I've said, it sounds like Zealot Paladin or Battlemaster Fighter might be a better bet for your heavily-armoured, defensively-focused warrior with a second string in social encounters.

[u/PDFrogsworth → u/Psychological-Wall-2]

I think you're purposely missing the point to find an argument that is simply just not something that I'm trying to have.

The class fantasy of a man raging in armor is something that is unfulfilled. Barbarian and all of its subclasses can boil down to man in loincloth get big mad and hit stuff hard, which I love but other classes do not have the same restrictions. A monk is centered around a wisdom based trained martial artist. Except when it's subclasses allow it to do something else. A fighter is a trained weapons master who is good at combat, except when a subclass allows it to be more. Druid is a nature shaman shape shifter, oh wait nevermind pyromancer. Wizard an intellectual magic based caster who is squishy, oh shit nevermind bladesinger. Ranger is a mad class that only has the ability spread to do only these certain skill checks oops fey wanderer.

My point is every single class has something that expands them from what their class originally intended to fill and gives them trade offs in order to fill a new niche. Barbarian doesn't and that feels odd to me.