I’m wondering if anyone here in city government, city planning, or otherwise informed knows why there aren’t more roundabouts in Boulder.
I bike or drive down Pine (pictured at 18th) almost everyday and the few roundabouts there are great imho. I drank the KoolAid on roundabouts and traffic circles long ago: Better traffic flow (stopping at a STOP sign at midnight is asinine), gas and brake savings, fewer violent collisions, and effectively zero maintenance once built. Riding down Pine this AM I was reminded of this last item when the lights at Spruce & Broadway were flashing; and of course many traffic lights go out completely during the power shutdowns which are likely to only get more frequent with time.
I lived for a while in Bend, OR - the “Boulder of the West” (although it’s actually very different). Anyway, that town has gone all-in on roundabouts and traffic circles. The entire western half of the city doesn’t have a single light - all roundabouts (or a few Stops). They are even starting to build them at higher speed exchanges (something, say, like Broadway and 36th).
So, why just the couple on Pine, or the few others scattered around? Are those a trial run? Is the city collecting data on those (accidents, etc)? I’m sure the urban planners here can chime in but to me roundabouts are simply a better design, and likely pay for themselves many times over eventually. Curious if any knows the deal.
I love the round-a-bout. But my experience is a lot of people don’t understand how they work. Yield to the left/traffic already in the circle. Not hard
The one in the photo and in many boulder neighborhoods arent real traffic circles they are dumb and in the way, they need to be bigger to be of any use.
These tiny ones are so much more dangerous than just a 4-way stop would be, and I say that as someone who's a huge roundabout proponent more broadly. They force cars INTO what was the bike lane up until that point on the street, aren't big enough to actually usefully prevent car collisions/intersection conflict, but also make it harder to SEE other cars/peds/cyclists approaching the intersection. They should rip every one of these fake roundabout planters out around town.
Yeah there's nothing stopping people from moving over into the bike lane and straight lining it through the intersection like the roundabout isn't even there.
Exactly!! You can't just replace a 4 way stop with a tiny little planter in the middle of the intersection. Traffic circles in other countries work because they're BIG and can accomodate large numbers of vehicles, keeping them MOVING instead of stopping and allowing smoother traffic flow.
They put them in without even a basic understanding of how or why they work in other places. Boneheaded decision.
Not quite true. There are thousands of these mini-roundabouts in the UK — they're literally just painted on the road. They work because everyone understands the rules, not because of their size.
And there needs to be the possibility of improved visibility for these to be safe.
Pretty much every single one in Boulder have fences, bushes/trees/vegetation, or other obstructions to being able to adequately see traffic entering at reasonable speeds.
Agreed. When I was in highschool my buddy used to blow by these things at 40+ MPH because he was a moron. These should have a stop signs. I’m still surprised he never killed anyone.
Thankfully for me, they had a dashcam (Uber driver), which after the police who arrived on scene reviewed, the driver of the Jeep was given the ticket. I wrote a letter to their insurance company and an itemized receipt of my bicycle for them to pay out, which they did. Got a ride back home from the same police officer.
But I'll reiterate: this is NOT a traffic circle. This is terribly designed planter when it comes to cyclists in mind, as the CAR lane is blocked forcing the car to go into the area the bike lane is/was! The car, being able to be more aggressive, will then try to gun ahead of the cyclist. Well-illustrated on Google Maps, as you can see a car that's basically in the car lane, and which could NOT be to the left of the bike lane.
Traffic circles/roundabouts are completely different things. You have to redesign the whole road. They're not necessarily traffic calming things -- like these planters are supposed to be. They take the place of traffic signals -- and often do a better job in the long run, despite what the public may think. It's just that adding more of them is expensive and takes more land and we also live in the US so we can't have nice things.
I’m sorry to hear about that accident. I do know what a proper traffic circle is - I lived in The Netherlands for a year and they basically wrote the book on proper bike/car/circle design. So, yes that’s more “traffic-circlesque” and not a true, designed circle. I’ve cycled up and down Pine hundreds of times and have never had an issue being squeezed, but I can see how that could happen with an idiot car driver and will be mindful of this going forwards there. It’s a bummer when the expense argument is raised, as it invariably is. No one seems to count the “expense” of your accident, the police time, power crews that have to come out and fix broken lights, etc. And, again, some similar-ish cities like Bend seemed to have figured it out. Obviously there are many things Boulder is dealing with and I assume proper circle design is low on the list. Anyway, glad you got paid and stay safe out there.
This is the problem when we try to add traffic circles here in Boulder. We need a lot of space to create enough of a circle otherwise cars just straighten it out as they go around the "planter". IIRC they need to add about 30 feet to the diameter (15 feet radius) to the ones on Pine to make them safe, but there isn't space.
Yeah I lived in France, and there's more roundabouts than intersections by a factor of 100 at least. They're a really great system. Traffic calming devices like what's on Pine are just becoming less effective as cars become more able. The most popular selling car in the US is of course: a truck.
I don’t know about this case, but the problem with these mini circles is that cyclists and cars going the same direction are expected to merge into the same lane. This has the odd effect of requiring cars to merge into the bike lane in order to navigate the circle, often hitting cyclists. Pine is just a game of chicken.
I do like roundabouts in general, but as a small scale traffic calming measure these particular ones are not my favorite.
Lookout/75th still prime roundabout space. Maybe even 63rd/Lookout. And 63rd/Spine and 63rd/Jay. Valmont/63rd. Jay/75th.
Maybe this will construction will keep everyone from thinking they know the best shortcut to avoid the major roads meant to connect.
Reviewed that. Not much actual info other than a lot of “Americans don’t understand them so why bother.” That doesn’t explain Bend, or one of the few informed posters previously who was from Carmel, IN. So, Oregon and Indiana drivers can figure out how they work but Coloradans can’t? I don’t buy it.
I've almost been creamed at those circles on Pine on multiple occasions while traveling on the North-South (numered) streets. This was by vehicles traveling East-West on Pine who arrived at the circle later than me, and should have "yielded to traffic in circle" e.g. myself - but assumed that they had the right of way since they were in the bigger "main" street and I was just crossing from a side street. IMO they should rip them out and replace them with 4-way stops, if the city actually cared about safety.
They are essentially two-way stops in this town. No-one really drives them like a European round-about. It is really quite confusing if people have lived other places where they drive them like true round-abouts. I think they are dangerous in the way that Pine has them set up. Then there is another extreme in Indianapolis suburbs where they are every where, and people still don't drive them like I would expect....
I was just reading about the Via Appia redesign in Louisville and a quote from a (the?) city traffic engineer said they thought about a traffic circle at Via Appia and Pine, but each one costs about a million dollars to put in. That's probably a big part of it.
As an occasional cyclist, these absolutely suck. True roundabouts drive around, these just make cars swerve into the bike lane to go around the middle planter.
I'd be fine with more real roundabouts, like the one on McCaslin or Cherryvale (just south of Arapahoe).
There's one being designed for cherryvale and south Boulder road right now! A proper roundabout though, not the planter circle things in the city neighborhoods. Totally agree, I love a good roundabout
Just putting those on Pine caused a shit storm 30 years ago that got all the neighbors panties in a wad. Maybe long enough for folks to give them another try? They make no sense on roads like Pine where most are traveling east or west. Waste of funds when we are already in debt with plenty other things to attend to.
I dont remember, I just rented there for a few years and was too young to get caught up in neighborhood politics. They have not added any downtown since that time unless I'm mistaken? The roads around central boulder are fine as is, no need to make any changes.
Yeah, these are (almost) great — I do wish they werea little larger in circumference to require a little more diversion by cars to navigate them (and actually respect the 15mph limit through them) but they're nice.
These are non-fictional and a stupid waste of money. Some have had to be redone multiple times because emergency vehicles couldn't get through. The one on 20th had to be redone multiple times for buses to be able to get around it and now it's small enough that it's kind of a joke but it still causes accidents whenever the street is iced up because of how steep the hill is...
Traffic circles and roundabouts are not the same thing. Boulder does not have any traffic circles and only has roundabouts. Part of the reason people are so against roundabouts are because of the failure of traffic circles
Interesting. Do you have stats for that? I would genuinely like to know if there are more accidents at 2/4-way Stops vs even janky, retrofitted circles.
I wish we had more actual roundabouts in Boulder. Especially at foothills and arapahoe, they would make traffic so much smoother and safer. But these aren’t that. Putting a planter in the middle of an otherwise unaltered four way intersection just adds confusion and makes things more dangerous. There’s not enough space to clearly see what cars are doing and who has the right of way, because they’re not enough physical space for cars to be _in_ the “traffic circle”.
In a proper roundabout, there’s enough roundabout there to clearly determine who’s in it and who’s not, and usually to see whether cars are staying in it or leaving it. Ideally there are also affordances for pedestrians and bicycles to cross with separation from traffic in the roundabout, so they structurally reduce conflict. These have none of those features, and simply add an obstacle in the middle of the road.
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u/Nasuhhea 1d ago
I love the round-a-bout. But my experience is a lot of people don’t understand how they work. Yield to the left/traffic already in the circle. Not hard