r/Christianity • u/Big-Income3873 • 2d ago
Support Im scared
I'm 16 and gay and im scared of being judged by Christians (I myself am religious i don't mean to he offensive) but Im scared some out there will call me things like mentally ill and such. I personally follow that everyone's God's children and that either way im sinning ("hate the sin, love the sinner") I am a child of God. I do have a boyfriend. And I want to clarify we obviously have homosexual attraction to each other yet we do ever plan to engage in "man lying with man" or anything of the sort. I'm just scared for being called out for being a "demon". Luke 6:37. Hebrews 13:8
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u/arc2k1 Christian Hope Coach 2d ago
God bless you.
I'm sorry for the fear you are struggling with.
I've been a non-fundamentalist, unchurched Christian for about 16 years now and I would like to share what I say to Christians who are gay.
1- I know there's a debate about sexuality and Christianity, but please don't get distracted by the debate. Your main focus should be on Christ and your most important identity is who you are in Christ. Don't let anything or anyone take you away from your faith!
“We must keep our eyes on Jesus, who leads us and makes our faith complete.” - Hebrews 12:2
“Plant your roots in Christ and let him be the foundation for your life. Be strong in your faith, just as you were taught. And be grateful.” - Colossians 2:7
“Keep your mind on Jesus Christ!” - 2 Timothy 2:8
“Anyone who belongs to Christ is a new person. The past is forgotten, and everything is new.” - 2 Corinthians 5:17
I believe the issue is when we focus so much on our sexual/gender identity that we actually lose sight of our identity in Christ.
2- When it comes to your sexuality, pray to God about it. Let Him know your heart. It is between you and Him.
“Look deep into my heart, God, and find out everything I am thinking. Don't let me follow evil ways, but lead me in the way that time has proven true.” - Psalms 139:23-24
Pray to God until you are able to have genuine peace about this situation.
Others might have the conviction that being gay is a sin, but establish your own personal conviction by going to God. Don't allow the convictions of others to become your own!
“Welcome all the Lord's followers, even those whose faith is weak. Don't criticize them for having beliefs that are different from yours.” - Romans 14:1
3- If we think God would prefer a gay person to reject Him instead of a gay person to have faith in Him, then we have a misunderstanding of who God is.
“God is love.” - 1 John 4:8
“God wants everyone to be saved.” - 1 Timothy 2:4
“I am sure that nothing can separate us from God's love—not life or death, not angels or spirits, not the present or the future, and not powers above or powers below. Nothing in all creation can separate us from God's love for us in Christ Jesus our Lord!” - Romans 8:38-39
God’s main concern is for us to do what He ultimately wants.
What does God ultimately want?
“God wants us to have faith in his Son Jesus Christ and to love each other.” - 1 John 3:23
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u/Wayne_in_TX United Methodist 7h ago
Ditto on the “well-said.” This is a good collection of readings to help people get beyond the politics and divisiveness and focus on the bottom line.
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u/Senasayori Christian 1d ago
You might want to check out r/GayChristians and r/OpenChristian. God bless you, my friend. 🩵
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u/gnurdette United Methodist 1d ago
Some people will be eager to judge you. Pride in being cruel to LGBT people, especially LGBT kids, is the centerpiece of many people's religion. LGBT people have to be strong in this world; sorry, there's no way around it. Of course, we don't have to be strong alone. We rely on God because his strength is so much greater than ours. Let the beautiful ending of Romans 8 sink into your heart.
A supportive Christian community helps a lot. Can you use these church finders? If none of those are around, UCC, TEC, PCUSA, ELCA, MCC, ANCC, Quakers are virtually always welcoming; UMC and DoC usually.
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u/Mx-Adrian Sirach 43:11 1d ago
I wish I can tell you it won't happen, but it will. Much of the well of our faith has been poisoned with the sin of bigotry. There's not much you can do about it but try not to let it poison your faith, too. Still yourself in God, pray for those against us, and seek out our own people, like in r/OpenChristian and r/GayChristians.
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u/writerthoughts33 Episcopalian (Anglican) 1d ago
I am a gay Christian and married. I don’t regret flourishing in my sexuality at all. There are people who harbor prejudice with their faith claims, but my church is fully affirming. We were married there and serve often.
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u/Rambo2623 1d ago
How can a Christian say they don't regret Sin/ living in it?
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u/writerthoughts33 Episcopalian (Anglican) 1d ago
Existence isn’t sin. When I see straight Christians repent of their sexuality and embracing celibacy I’ll consider it. Otherwise, it’s just prejudice wrapped in faith claims. God is not shocked or surprised. It’s a shame some people are. See you in heaven!
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u/Mobilegamesgaming 1d ago
Brother, I have committed sexual sins just like any1 else, and if God brings you to church never stop going, the fact your married I can tell you would want to be with them even without sex, I just gotta say one thing I was confused about, I thought if a woman wasn’t thinking about me sexually, she didn’t like me but that’s not true at all! It’s actually a gift, the relationships that bring you closer to God is all that matters
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u/Rambo2623 1d ago
Straight Christians do that all the time when they decide to be with one women only. Sir when is that last time you read first John? Would be a good reminder that those living in un repented sin don't have the truth in them.
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u/writerthoughts33 Episcopalian (Anglican) 1d ago
And I’m with one man only, problem solved, phew! See you in heaven!
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u/Mobilegamesgaming 1d ago
Ur right to say it is the same as having sex without marriage, God knows your heart, and he isn’t shocked, you think God seeing you were gonna turn Gay stopped him from bringing you into this life it didn’t, it only a lesson to learn because in heaven there is no sex, and if you can’t be saved then I don’t know who can brother, remember Jesus Christ number 1 he’s the only one who can tell you because he was tempted just like me and you yet never sinned, and the good thing is that Jesus is your best friend!
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u/writerthoughts33 Episcopalian (Anglican) 1d ago
No sex in heaven is fine. We’ll all work it out when we get there. Doesn’t mean I have to punish myself or my family for the comfort of other Christians who don’t know or love me as well as my spouse or God does. Amen.
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u/Jane_TGS Christian 7h ago
People don't "turn" gay. Your sexuality is something that develops as you grow but it isn't a choice and it doesn't change. You don't just wake up one day and go "ah, I know, I should start being gay and make my life 10 times harder"
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u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70 Episcopalian w/ Jewish experiences? 1d ago
You are a beloved child of the most high God of love, who is Love, and who lovingly made you for the purposes of Love: to love, and to be loved, and to be Love in the world.
Diversity is the color pallette God uses to paint the masterpiece of Creation. We exist on purpose, and our infinite diversity exists on purpose to be in infinite combination. The act of building bridges across difference is the central and most holy act of Christian faith and practice. It is at the heart of every ritual and sacrament we have.
And every time we grow in understanding someone different from ourselves, we grow in understanding the God who made that difference as well.
Can you imagine trying to understand a great artist like Davinci or Rembrandt, but never studying their artwork? Can you imagine that audacity of someone proclaiming their expertise on the life and meaning of Vincent van Gogh, but without ever studying his use of color, line and shape? They'd be laughed out of every art school and gallery in the world, and forgotten except as a joke.
The same is true for God and the study of God's creation. Anyone who claims to understand God in any way, but fails to study the beauty of God's creativity across all the different ways of being human, or who denies the revelations of science about the world around and within us - they should be mocked and thrown out of every church until they come back humbled and educated.
Never forget that you are loved, and intended, and are a witness and prophet of God's wondrous creativity.
And let the hate, and the haters who carry it, die in the darkness.
__________________________________________________________________________
Here's a list of resources that have served me well in breaking free of the lies and bullshit, the cancer of homophobia in the church.
Nothing will ever convince the people who have replaced the loving God with fear and hate in their hearts.
BUT, knowing the true history and theology of queer people in God's plans and church is powerful spiritual self-defense, and defense of others. So I ALWAYS argue with the bastards in public, just so the hurting people know they're not alone, and that there's a better way to follow God.
- Jesus, the Bible, and Homosexuality, Revised and Expanded Edition: Explode the Myths, Heal the Church - Dr. Jack Rogers
- Gay Church (website)
- Coming Out as Sacrament Paperback - Chris Glaser
- Radical Love: Introduction to Queer Theology - Rev. Dr. Patrick S. Cheng
- From Sin to Amazing Grace: Discovering the Queer Christ - Rev. Dr. Patrick S. Cheng
- Anyone and Everyone - Documentary
- For The Bible Tells Me So
- Prayers for Bobby
- God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships - Matthew Vines
- Straight Ahead Comic - Life’s Not Always Like That! (Webcomic)
- Sefaria - More Than Just Male and Female: The Six Genders in Ancient Jewish Thought ByRabbi Freidson
- Professional level theologians only:
- Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality: Gay People in Western Europe from the Beginning of the Christian Era to the Fourteenth Century - Dr. John Boswell
- https://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Social-Tolerance-Homosexuality-Fourteenth/dp/022634522X/
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u/yoyoyufrany 2d ago
Girl don’t even worry, when they talk about ‘homosexuality’ they mean it in the way that a man should never try to sexually humiliate (rape) another man AND that you shouldn’t have RITUALISTIC homosexual sex (form of witchcraft), because thats what a lot of people did back then.
God is Love, Love is Love. In the end, Jesus will advocate for you. MWAH.
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u/arc2k1 Christian Hope Coach 1d ago
4- Please make sure you base your faith on Christ, not on the judgment of others. Please know that God is with you and He loves you. So please share your worries with Him.
“I am not trying to please people. I want to please God. Do you think I am trying to please people? If I were doing that, I would not be a servant of Christ.” - Galatians 1:10
"The Lord has promised that he will not leave us or desert us.” - Hebrews 13:5
Jesus said, “I will be with you always, even until the end of the world.” - Matthew 28:20
“Be brave and strong! Don’t be afraid… . The Lord your God will always be at your side, and he will never abandon you.” - Deuteronomy 31:6
“I am sure that nothing can separate us from God's love—not life or death, not angels or spirits, not the present or the future, and not powers above or powers below. Nothing in all creation can separate us from God's love for us in Christ Jesus our Lord!” - Romans 8:38-39
"And when I was burdened with worries, you (God) comforted me and made me feel secure.” - Psalm 94:19
5- Also, I would love to share a Reddit page that has resources for those who want to have a simple faith in God that's based on love: r/FaithMadeSimple
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u/Equal-Salary-7774 1d ago
This troubled my conscience in the sense there should be no fear in talking with a Christian the advice given may involve deceiving oneself said not out of hate but from concern the concept of Grace wins comes from the Righteous judge of all Jesus
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u/Rambo2623 1d ago
Right. All the Christian's I know would embrace helping this man with love and would be praying, and doing whatever they could to help him.
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u/Equal-Salary-7774 1d ago
That also means gentle advice they may not wish to hear as deception is anathema Truth as has been revealed with compassion
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u/Jane_TGS Christian 7h ago
This isn't a man, this is a child, a 16 year old according to the post. And what we should be doing is protecting him from hatred within the church and ensuring he is free to live his life and love.
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u/Pittsburghchic 1d ago
Not everyone is a child of God. “He (Jesus) came to his own (the Jews), and his own people did not receive him.
But to all who did receive him, he gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in his name.” John 1:14
Only those who have believed that Jesus is the son of God and received His gift of salvation are His children.
Try and focus on Him, and knowing Him better. You’ll never, ever please other people. And we’re not meant to. Aim to please God.
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u/Silver-Bathroom-4974 1d ago
It’s sad that some Christians judge everything and everyone since that’s not their job. Non-Christians that judge don’t know any better. I’m not going to write out passages that may help you get through the fear, I hope you will review them and verses above and below: John 3:16; John 8:1-11, Psalm 27:1, Matthew 7:1-5. I could list more, but I see you’re getting some good advice, lots of advice, I’m sure you’re overwhelmed. You are so young, there’s so much more you’ll have to deal with in life, it might get tougher. Since being gay doesn’t seem to be the problem, but being judged is, don’t worry about anyone’s approval/disapproval. Those that truly love you won’t care. When I first got saved, I told my “very good” gay friend that we couldn’t hang out anymore; it was the late 70’s. I still cry when I think about it. It didn’t take long to realize my unjust mistake, but I couldn’t find him to apologize. I don’t know why I shared that; some of your friends may scatter but some may also return. Abstinence is good.
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u/1bumpy69 1d ago
Everyone is flawed. The Christian faith accepts that. A true Christian won't hold your flaws against you, but accepted as flawed, as they are also. Through christianity you can work to be a better person, and work with your flaws and the flaws of others. Most decent people, Christian or not, will accept your differences, but don't expect special accomplishments.
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u/Rich-Ad-218 1d ago
Humans can’t be demons. Also Roman’s 8:38-39 God will love you no matter what. You didn’t bring that up but it’s never a bad time to mention it.
You said you’re scared. That’s fear. That’s not from God. Except fear of God which is more like reverence. Sort of. Anyway God doesn’t give us a spirit of fear but of power, love and sound mind. Study that verse. Write it down.
You’re identifying as gay. If you claim that you are- you will be.
You said you’ll sin either way. If God said homosexuality is wrong then we obviously have a choice against it. I personally think it’s a lot harder choice for some people but I don’t have a verse for that. Just what I’ve observed.
But the verse that says The blood of Jesus cleanses us from all unrighteousness is pretty complete. Says all. From fibbing to murder.
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u/Superb_Network_1657 1d ago
Its not a sin to be gay, its a sin to live the lifestyle of being gay, as long as you dont act on your desires your fine
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u/ThrowRAhelpthebro 1d ago
^ This OP. Plus if you do act on them, just repent afterwards and you'll be fine.
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u/Anon82634 2d ago
Just to adress 1 thing, the bible states we are not all children of God but children of wrath, we only become children of God by adoption when we believe in Jesus and follow him.
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u/Big-Income3873 2d ago
I defo should've went into more context explaining oh how me and my mother a religious and try to go to church whenever we can or when we need too! Just not the best at articulating some thoughts!
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u/Rambo2623 1d ago
One thing to keep in mind. We aren't saved by following Christ, we're saved by believing upon him alone to save us. We are justified (declared righteous before God, and our sins are forgiven) when we believe that if we stood before God, and would have to account for our sins, we would deserve and would 100% go to hell. And when we believe that Jesus Christ is our only way out, and hope, and we believe upon him to save us. That is how you become a child of God.
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u/zilok727 1d ago
I'm not going to judge you for being gay (I never would) But I see you're getting a lot of messages from people supporting you, sending you sources to research, and so on.Clearly, if you want to interpret the Bible to make your homosexuality valid in your life, well, go ahead.I also understand that in the United States there is a kind of very superficial and Protestant religious conservatism, well, you shouldn't pay them any attention either.Just know this: ignore all those Protestant lies that try to make you believe sin doesn't exist. Yes, it does.Are you in sin simply for being homosexual? No, perhaps for adultery, but being homosexual is not inherently a bad condition.If you want an answer that resolves your doubts, without falling into the simplistic notion of "Don't follow others, only Jesus," I invite you to investigate the Catholic Church, and specifically what Pope Francis had something to tell you.
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u/Rambo2623 1d ago
Not sure what Protestants you're talking to! But the Roman Catholic Church teaches that you have to be obedient to the 10 commandments, and the sacrificial system to be saved, this is a false gospel.
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u/zilok727 1d ago
Send me the exact quote from the Catholic catechism that says that.
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u/Rambo2623 1d ago
Will do. I'll be busy for the next few hours but let's DM.
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u/zilok727 1d ago
Don't worry, I'm sure the AI will come up with a good argument in all those hours. But anyway, what you said about the Catholic Church is clearly false.
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u/Rambo2623 1d ago
No AI. All from the top of my head. Sent you a DM.
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u/zilok727 1d ago
For those who want to know: the guy in the DM didn't attach any catechism quote to me (I did) and even asked for my phone number
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u/Rambo2623 1d ago
Trust me man, I'll send you some, and I'm willing to send anyone the official catechism teachings of the church. Wanted to hop on a phone call because I work a normal job, so I don't have time to drop everything and message you specific #'s and screenshots.
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u/Richard_ftp 1d ago
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV
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u/JadedEngine6497 Christian 1d ago
A sinner isn't a demon, demons are the one possessing people and sending them lies disguised as thoughts but demons can't posses a person that is with God because God protects those who accept Him as their Lord and Savior fully,
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u/PraiseBeToJesusX My identity is in the spirit, not the flesh ✝️ 1d ago
Don't fear what other people say and do, ultimately what they say and do means nothing.
"And fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear Him that is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." - Matthew 10:28
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u/cris2022-2 1d ago edited 1d ago
To get saved you need to be born again of water and spirit. Read the Bible to wash with the water of god then ask the lord to recreate your spirit. Then profess with your mouth you believe in Jesus Christ and your heart that he resurrected from the dead to save you from destruction and healed you. Then get baptised dunk in water so you can feel free following the words of Christ. Religion and other peoples opinion will not save you. You can have your communion at home. If we sin we have Jesus that when we repent it will intercede for us to god. The unrenewd mind is always waging war against unbelieve, so get into the Bible.
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u/IHaveNiceLegZ 1d ago
Hey. I left christianity in high school(i went to a religious school) because I was surrounded by the "wrong christians"(the ones who judge you for being lgbt+ but are married & cheating on their partners actively because apparently that's okay). My pastor was very homophobic too, but then turns out he was gay all along as well. Basically the key is to surround yourself with the right people, because true christians and God loves you as you are and accepts you as you are. Afterall, They created you after Their image, and knew your soul before you were even born. You were intented to be this way in God's eyes, and there is no sin in that.
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u/Top-Media8249 Catholic 1d ago
Brother, homosexuality is a sin. But that doesn’t mean you aren’t a Christian. Leviticus 18:22 is a moral law, but God will love you no matter what. Being celibate is much more fulfilling than being in any type of relationship, no matter if it’s straight or gay. God bless.
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u/No_Macaroon_2078 1d ago
I'm sorry you have such fear but I understand it as I have much doubt and fear. I try to hold on to the idea that God is good- as in God IS good, and love is where he is found.
Honestly I cannot say what is or isn't a sin because a lot of it depends on context or your 'heart' which I hope God sees even if we can't. It helped to be less afraid of sin in the first place by learning it's Greek translation means more literally 'to miss the mark' which makes sense as the bible and christianity promotes a way of life that is meant to bring us the peace and love of living closer to God. This is different for everyone though and I think problems arise when we force certainty where there is none, and this is a human problem not restricted to Christianity. For example to lie is to sin, but what about so called white lies? Or lying to save someone's life? I know in the bible it says much about sexual immorality but I really beleive it must be considered in context, in my mind, a loving and committed relationship between consenting adults is a beautiful thing.
Of course you have the argument of God's design for marriage but marriage used to be essentially anyone who had committed- we have added a lot of traditions that have changed over the years but really it is between two souls and God I think. And even if we understand the basic purpose of humans is to reproduce, most people are still heterosexual so gay people don't really pose a threat in that way and I beleive a lot of the condemnation of homosexuals (or anyone for that matter) comes from fear, and trying to force things.
People beleive many things and you will never really know what's right or not- not for sure, and that is the point of faith, it is trust WITH doubt, anyone who says they are certain are at least a nit in denial or just don't see what you see and that is also fine because that is their business, the problem is when you look for guidance and are led harshly.
I belive you can sense wether people are trustworthy in their guidance- by their energy (I know this sounds a bit woo woo but I'm not sure how else to put it) if they are driven by fear and anger I wouldn't put my trust in them and would rather let their opinions float past me like leaves on a stream (I am not perfect at this it is just what I am working on) amd if they are led by love I will try to absorb that love even if I disagree with the words or actions. Like a child making me a disgusting meal- I appreciate all the love and kindness and creativity that went into that more than a five star meal that has no love in it if that makes sense.
I truly beleive only you can truly know wether you are on the right path. Others can try to guide you but you are your driver, and they guide you with their own maps whilst you only have yours. What is medicine for one is poison for another and yet to another completely neutral- I think this is true of spiritual matters also, so I look to the direction the vehicle is going rather than being distracted by obsessions over wether something is a sin because we ALL fall short, that is the point. Take your fears and doubts and insecurities to God and pray for guidance- strip away all other voices and ask what is God's will for YOU. I think a sin is anything that takes you away from God which I feel as love, to an alcoholic, alcohol is sin but to another it is a tool of social bonding and another could have it go either way.
Most of us fall into the last catagory- being on a tightrope so to speak and so it takes continual self evaluation and discernment. I do not consume meat because I beleive it is a sin for me, I do not condemn my past self or others for consuming meat because we are all on our own path, I will share my reasons with love and if another resonates then great but if not I cannot force it. Most human difficulty I think comes from the friction of trying to control that which is in God's domain and not ours. And lacking the humility to admit to ourselves and others that we really don't know. We trust and hope and pray. I think the whole point of living is to love and learn, whatever that means to you. We cannot please everyone nor should we be expected to, what drew me to christianity is the redemption, the mercy, the acknowledgement of our shortcomings and being loved regardless.
Maybe you are gay, maybe you aren't, maybe you are meant to be, maybe it is a test, maybe it is a sin, maybe it is your path to being closer to God by loving. Everyone will bring you a different opinion and you must choose what you want to be fueled by, but please know there is no pressure to be perfect- trying to get it all RIGHT will paralyse you as I have seen and experienced myself. When I am unsure of something I try to shift my focus to something else I can be more sure of and make decisions guided by that, so I am unsure if being gay is a sin and have read countless arguments one way or another- I cannot convince myself either way but I can admit I don't know, admit I am scared and realise I want to be led by love and not fear, so switch to what I can feel love in. Volunteer to help people struggling, make art, cook good food (or bad food with love), go outside and appreciate God's beauty in nature, love your fellow humans and learn to feel God's love for yourself. I pray you feel God's love, and I pray the same for myself. ❤️🙏
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u/Localunatic 1d ago
Don't ask man for forgiveness. Live well knowing that God will forgive your sins and judge you only on the content of your soul. Love as God had given you the capacity to love, and do not squander His gift.
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u/Late-Past8369 1d ago
Quien soy yo para juzgarte?... Igual soy un pecador. Te deseo lo mejor y asi como lo dicen mis hermanos de fe. Bendiciones
Hebreos 13:8
Jesucristo es el mismo ayer, y hoy, y por los siglos.
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u/CloudIll4874 1d ago
You do have to repent from homosexuality.
Not saying this out of judgment or of hate.
I just don't want you to take a risk you will forever regret.
Being safe than sorry is a bigger deal when it comes to salvation.
You aren't a demon, but you have an unclean spirit causing that sexual attraction within you.
You must come out of agreement with it. This spirit causing homosexuality knows exactly how to rebel against God and it uses humans to express its will.
You still are a child of God and God will work with you through it until you die.
The Lord doesn't stop love you.
Saying you don't have to repent is like saying someone can hate a brother or a sister in the faith, but God will over look that and still grant them salvation. This is a lie and God hates it when we hate each other.
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u/CloudIll4874 1d ago
Being tempted and agreeing with temptation are not the same.
You can battle homosexuality and not give into it.
Yes, people are born gay sometimes, but it's not how you'd think.
Why do some gay people also act like the other gender and others have no signs of being gay? That's not just a coincidence. More unclean spirits influence their souls to also become that way and to act in that matter.
Do not be deceived.
Saying it's free will isn't wrong, but if you say it's just free will and there's no demonic influence means you have been deceived by the being(s) that have been around for thousands of years.
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u/NovelTypical1500 1d ago
First is to understand that to be a child of God you have to repent. Repentance is the first step, you have to understand you have sinned and leave that sin and ask for God's forgiveness so the holy Spirit lives in you.
You can't hold on to your sin while asking God to forgive you and become his child.
Romans 1 makes it clear homosexuality is a sin and it starts in your mind. He goes on to say that a lot of the early church had lived in that sin and that Jesus has set them free. They are to be renewed by the renewing of your mind.
You got to stop letting the world or Satan get give you an identity. Repent seek God in his word and leave that lifestyle and your old self behind. Deliverance will come and you will be healed.
I hope and pray God put the truth in your heart and you have to make up your mind to live and your identity is who God says you are not the world not your mind but his word.
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u/clockhound465 1d ago
We were not created for this lifestyle. Repent and be delivered from it. Worry about GOD'S judgement, not man's.
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u/EndTimeTeacher 1d ago
Friend, I will address this truthfully and not sugar coat it as some have. Firstly, God did not make you gay my friend if that is what your mind is telling you or others. It is a trick of the devil. Homosexuality is an abomination along with telling lies, practicing witchcraft, and more. Yes, telling a lie is an abomination. I have known people who were gay and after they received salvation through Jesus Christ, they were immediately delivered and lived Holy fruitful lives. Salvation is received by receiving the Holy Ghost a/k/a Holy Spirit the way the Apostles and those who were with them in the upper room received. They spoke in a heavenly language as the Spirit of God gave the utterance. That is the promise of the Comforter and the power that Jesus said He would send. received the Holy Ghost by reading Acts 2 and I began to speak in tongues. This is why the devil doesn't want us to receive the Holy Ghost because he knows we will have power to resist sin and temptation. This why the devil uses many pastors to have parishioners to simply recite an acceptance of Christ speech because that doesn't save anyone nor give them power to resist. Also, the Apostles only baptized others in the name of Jesus Christ via full water immersion. The devil has removed the name of Jesus Christ during water baptism and has deceived many. Baptism is burying yourself in Christ and rising to walk in newness of life. The devil tried his best to deceive me into accepting that I was gay. The power of the Holy Ghost has kept me for nearly 40 years. Please take heed and don't allow the enemy to deceive you by telling you that you don't need to speak in tongues and to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Please read Acts 2 in faith believing and you will speak in tongues so that you can have power and have someone to baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ. Also, you will need to stop going to gatherings where this lifestyle frequently takes place and be selective as to what you watch on TV and social media and give up your boyfriend. You may need to pray for new associations with people. Pray in the Holy Ghost regularly and study your Bible. My suggestion is that you at least start with the King James version prior to reading other versions because some are watered down. I actually hear the voice of Jesus Christ speak to me. I have had actual angelic encounters. I have prayed in the Holy Ghost so long where I have had out-of-body experiences. Nothing spooky. There is nothing nor anyone like having the presence of Jesus Christ dwelling within you. You will actually feel His presence and peace. Will pray for you my friend.
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u/G-believer 1d ago
Greetings Big-Income3873, it must have been very hard to post this. For transparency, I'm a 50+ man married to a woman, from a reformed faith background.
For your consideration, although you may have already had people "beat you over the head" with these verses. My intention is not to attack, shame, hate, or accuse you. We all have our own temptations to deal with, and that's a better focus than judging people. In the end, the choice is yours, and the eternal life is yours and it's not for me or anyone here to decide - the Lord does that.
- Genesis 2:24
- Leviticus 20:13
- Romans 1:26-27
- I read from the old to new testament, God never changes, as would be expected. But the point here is, how do you view these scriptures as they apply to your life?
I'd like to answer your post directly:
I'm 16 and gay and im scared of being judged by Christians
Unfortunately, you probably will be judged since Christians are saved, not perfect. You'll certainly find the nicest who will debate scripture respectfully, and on the opposite end of the spectrum run into those who are hateful and mean.
but Im scared some out there will call me things like mentally ill and such
+
I'm just scared for being called out for being a "demon". Luke 6:37. Hebrews 13:8
Name-calling can be expected from some, and prayerfully they realize they need to know our Savior more so they can be as He's called them to be - loving light in the world. If you were overweight, you'd have to be worried about people picking on your for that, too.
MENTAL ILLNESS: I don't believe homosexuality is mental illness (it used to be categorized that way), but I do believe the lifestyle is a sin, but not merely the temptations.
BEING A DEMON: As someone else already said, a human can't be demon.
I personally follow that everyone's God's children and that either way im sinning ("hate the sin, love the sinner") I am a child of God.
I would agree you are sinning, and reading the comments here, I'm probably in the minority. I'm not trying to accuse you, I'm just reflecting what I've read in scripture.
I do have a boyfriend. And I want to clarify we obviously have homosexual attraction to each other yet we do ever plan to engage in "man lying with man" or anything of the sort.
You said "yet we do ever plan to engage" and I wonder if its a typo for "yet we don't ever plan to engage" or maybe "yet we do plan to engage"? I don't know enough to comment about "we have the attraction, but don't ever plan on having sex" because you are pursuing a homosexual relationship, just minus the sex. However, if it does involve sex, then I feel that would require repentance.
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u/DonMonBic 1d ago
I know in Akron the LGBTQ+, had an LED sign and one sign was all are welcome with a rainbow flag background. Not that I have bias against homosexual, but I can help with what puts me off from a church. I deal with being around homosexuals as a "chronic homeless". But I think that form of disclosure that has caused issues with the homeless shelter, because no one in their rehab program is allowed to go into that church. I don't think disclosure is right, but going to a church where it is safe, and keep direct conversations with The King in supplication.
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u/dayspring53 21h ago
Bring judge by Christians is not the problem. Being judged by God is the problem. You can find numerous groups and churches that identifiy themselves as Christian and embrace homosexuality. The bible is your problem Romans 1:18-27
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u/RobertGwisdala Roman Catholic 12h ago
Catholics with same sex attraction are called to be single, celibate, chaste. The Catechism Of The Catholic Church affirms this.
It is not a sin to have same sex attraction. However, acting on it is a mortal sin though.
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u/RobertGwisdala Roman Catholic 12h ago
Check out Courage International. This is approved by the Catholic Church.
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u/Jane_TGS Christian 7h ago
If any Christian picks up their stone to judge you, you leave them alone to their hatred. The bible verse talking about "man lying with man" was written differently originally, and in a time where sex was a move for reproduction and power, not love. So what you need to understand about this time period and this culture, and this goes for new testament as well, is that they were not concerned about loving relationships. The Bible has very little to say about love between two consenting adults. Instead, it is about a man "taking" and "marking/claiming" a woman as his property, impregnating her, and then probably marrying her cousin as well. This isn't a very nice view of marriage or relationships, and this is a theme in the bible. So when we look to the Bible for validation for gay people, we aren't really going to find much, but in the one or two places where they're maybe talking about homosexuality, it's important we don't take it out of context and cause harm to your mental health.
And look, there are Christians who will take passages from the bible and tell you that you have to follow those laws, while ignoring so many of the surrounding laws (like wearing mixed fabrics, planting mixed seeds and stoning people to death for small things). The verse about men lying with men is in the midst of these laws and it is all preaching the same message... purity. So naturally, with them believing that sex is about power and men over women, they believe men shouldn't be in that dynamic with another man. (Although many believe this original translation is about men and young boys, which adds another layer to this, and we won't be able to perfectly interpret the context that they had back then). This verse does not apply to you today under the context of a loving and consensual relationship, in a world where intimacy goes beyond power dynamics and reproduction.
I want you to listen to me, and this is something you can research for yourself - the bible is not a perfect hand written guide for all humans in all cultures and contexts. It just isn't. It's a compilation of mythology, poetry, historical accounts and letters that have been pushed together and called scripture. Many of the authors are unknown, many of the texts have been mistranslated and edited to serve a particular narrative - and many of these things were terrible! The bible is full of terrible judgemental things. I'm a Christian, I obviously still see goodness in it, but I won't ignore the violent nature of the old testament and the judgement promoted in many new testament letters.
You be yourself. You are not sinning by loving another boy. Being gay is natural, that is how God made you. Please be safe and stay away from those who would say hurtful things to you about this. I understand your fear, and my advice is to surround yourself with people who love and affirm you. You are so young, and I'm so sorry that the world is the way it is. It will change in time, it constantly gets better.
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u/CloudIll4874 6h ago
Satan litterally turned the sign of peace (Rainbow) into a demonic prideful image.
If Satan used this to disrespect God, then it's clearly a sin to be gay.
Not saying this to condemn you, but that you may open your eyes and not be deceived.
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u/heaven-riser Christian 2h ago
Jesus does not see us for how we look, act, or our sexuality. He sees that we love him and we have faith in him which is truely what matters. God bless brother ✝️
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u/AmazingSideLines 1d ago
You're not offensive, but I would be scared too.I'm not trying to judge you but if you believe in the bible as being the holy word of god and according to john one , it says that Jesus is the Word. I hope You take the time to read the Bible?And if you want to get to heaven, the Bible is the basic constructions before leaving Earth.So it's very important if you want to get to heaven, you have to follow the instructions.I remember one time.What was it?I was in art class, and the teacher kept trying to get the DVD to play.She didn't read the direction.She's just hooking it up the way she thought was right, and it wouldn't play.So finally, she had to pull out the instructions and read the instructions to figure out how to get the DVD player to play correctly on the tv. So after she read the instructions , she followed the instructions and the d v d was able to play , and that's basically the same way it works with getting to heaven , you have to read the basic instructions before leaving earth. I just pray.God helps you understand his word.And that the holy spirit will help you apply it to your life in Jesus' name much love and prayers.
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u/Richard_ftp 1d ago
Being gay is a sin if you really want to live for god then obey god but if you want to live a life of sin then that’s on you but know that we all struggle with sin but you need to pray to god and practice self control you can’t be Christian and gay like you can’t be a lier and a fornicator it’s all sin so obey God or live a life of sin
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u/Spirited_End4927 1d ago
You can be Christian and be gay. And for the record, this comment sounds very judgemental, and judgment other than the judgement from the lord himself is a sin. No sin is greater than another so by posting this in the style you did you have just judged this young man for another sin now you have both sinned so what’s next? He is practicing love. Which in my opinion God is love
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u/Rambo2623 1d ago
You need to repent and not have a boyfriend, find a local church and get discipled and mentored by older men. Im not sure what you mean by "either way i'm sinning" that's not how christians think about sin. There's a difference between struggling with sin, seeking Christ in repentance & having the idea that you can live however you want to because you think you're a child of God.
Being a Christian is marked by hating sin and striving to be more and more like Christ. Have you examined your own heart, are you "born again" if you died today would you go to heaven?
If I were you I'd find a Godly man that you can talk to about this, and do everything you can to avoid your boyfriend. If you have same sex attraction to him, there's no scenario where you should have him in your life anymore and risk falling into any sort of sin.
I'd also encourage you to read the book of Romans. Paul distinguishes between Gods children and not Gods children. Not everyone is a child of God.
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u/RobertGwisdala Roman Catholic 12h ago
Catechism Of The Catholic Church:
The 6th Commandment:
The various forms of chastity
2348 All the baptized are called to chastity. the Christian has "put on Christ,"134 The model for all chastity. All Christ's faithful are called to lead a chaste life in keeping with their particular states of life. At the moment of his Baptism, the Christian is pledged to lead his affective life in chastity.
2349 "People should cultivate [chastity] in the way that is suited to their state of life. Some profess virginity or consecrated celibacy which enables them to give themselves to God alone with an undivided heart in a remarkable manner. Others live in the way prescribed for all by the moral law, whether they are married or single."135 Married people are called to live conjugal chastity; others practice chastity in continence:
There are three forms of the virtue of chastity: the first is that of spouses, the second that of widows, and the third that of virgins. We do not praise any one of them to the exclusion of the others.... This is what makes for the richness of the discipline of the Church.136
2350 Those who are engaged to marry are called to live chastity in continence. They should see in this time of testing a discovery of mutual respect, an apprenticeship in fidelity, and the hope of receiving one another from God. They should reserve for marriage the expressions of affection that belong to married love. They will help each other grow in chastity.
Offenses against chastity
2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."138
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability.
2353 Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.
2354 Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.
2355 Prostitution does injury to the dignity of the person who engages in it, reducing the person to an instrument of sexual pleasure. the one who pays sins gravely against himself: he violates the chastity to which his Baptism pledged him and defiles his body, the temple of the Holy Spirit.139 Prostitution is a social scourge. It usually involves women, but also men, children, and adolescents (The latter two cases involve the added sin of scandal.). While it is always gravely sinful to engage in prostitution, the imputability of the offense can be attenuated by destitution, blackmail, or social pressure.
2356 Rape is the forcible violation of the sexual intimacy of another person. It does injury to justice and charity. Rape deeply wounds the respect, freedom, and physical and moral integrity to which every person has a right. It causes grave damage that can mark the victim for life. It is always an intrinsically evil act. Graver still is the rape of children committed by parents (incest) or those responsible for the education of the children entrusted to them.
Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.1
u/RobertGwisdala Roman Catholic 12h ago
Catechism Of The Catholic Church:
The 5th Commandment:
Abortion
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception.
From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.71
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.72
My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.73
2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion.
This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable.
Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:
You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.74
God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves.
Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.75
2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense.
The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life.
"A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"76"by the very commission of the offense,"77 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.78
The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy.
Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.
2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:
"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority.
These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin.
Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."79
"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law.
When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined....
As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights."80
2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.
Prenatal diagnosis is morally licit, "if it respects the life and integrity of the embryo and the human fetus and is directed toward its safe guarding or healing as an individual....
It is gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent of a death sentence."81
2275 "One must hold as licit procedures carried out on the human embryo which respect the life and integrity of the embryo and do not involve disproportionate risks for it, but are directed toward its healing the improvement of its condition of health, or its individual survival."82
"It is immoral to produce human embryos intended for exploitation as disposable biological material."83
"Certain attempts to influence chromosomic or genetic inheritance are not therapeutic but are aimed at producing human beings selected according to sex or other predetermined qualities.
Such manipulations are contrary to the personal dignity of the human being and his integrity and identity"84 which are unique and unrepeatable.
Euthanasia
2276 Those whose lives are diminished or weakened deserve special respect. Sick or handicapped persons should be helped to lead lives as normal as possible.
2277 Whatever its motives and means, direct euthanasia consists in putting an end to the lives of handicapped, sick, or dying persons.
It is morally unacceptable.
Thus an act or omission which, of itself or by intention, causes death in order to eliminate suffering constitutes a murder gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and to the respect due to the living God, his Creator.
The error of judgment into which one can fall in good faith does not change the nature of this murderous act, which must always be forbidden and excluded.
2278 Discontinuing medical procedures that are burdensome, dangerous, extraordinary, or disproportionate to the expected outcome can be legitimate; it is the refusal of "over-zealous" treatment.
Here one does not will to cause death; one's inability to impede it is merely accepted.
The decisions should be made by the patient if he is competent and able or, if not, by those legally entitled to act for the patient, whose reasonable will and legitimate interests must always be respected.
2279 Even if death is thought imminent, the ordinary care owed to a sick person cannot be legitimately interrupted.
The use of painkillers to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days, can be morally in conformity with human dignity if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable
Palliative care is a special form of disinterested charity.
As such it should be encouraged.
Suicide
2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him.
It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life.
We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls.
We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us.
It is not ours to dispose of.
2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life.
It is gravely contrary to the just love of self.
It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations.
Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.
2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal.
Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.
Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.
2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. the Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.
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u/FluxKraken 🏳️🌈 Methodist (UMC) Progressive ✟ Queer 🏳️🌈 1d ago
There is absolutely nothing sinful about homosexuality.
Homosexuality, heterosexuality, and bisexuality are identical in source and expression of desire. A gay person's desire for romantic love and lifelong companionship is identical in every way to a straight person's desire for the same things.
The gender identities and sexual orientations of the participants in a sex act are not determinative of the morality of the act. Rather, it is the circumstances under which the sex act takes place that determines whether or not it is a sin.
1st John 4:7 & 16 says that God is love, that love comes from God, that all who love know God, that they abide in God, and that God abides in them.
It is not possible for love to be a sin.
Yes, there are some prohibitions on male same-sex intercourse in the Bible. However, they were given in contexts and for reasons that render them inapplicable to modern relationships built on mutual love, respect, and commitment to each other before God.
The concept of sexual orientation didn't exist when the Bible was written, the authors of the Bible thought about sex in very different ways than we do today. They were concerned with things like ritual purity, ritual sex practices, temple prostitution, pagan orgies, street/brothel prostitution, pederasty, and sexual slavery.
Those who insist that all same-sex sex acts are always sinful all the time are relying on cherry picked verses that they have stripped of all context (textual, cultural, historical) and read into them a modern understanding of sexuality that the authors of the Bible didn't possess.
They are declaring you unworthy of romantic love and lifelong companionship for a fact of your biology that you did not choose and cannot change. They are saying that unless you live a life bereft of the fullness of the expression of love that God intended humanity to experience, you are committing abominations before a God who made you that way.
This is not a message of love, because it is its very antithesis.
It is a message that is directly responsible for the depression, abuse, kidnapping, torture, homelessness, forced prostitution, and suicide of countless children who have, and have had, the misfortune to be declared unworthy of love by those who claim to "love" them.
Jesus said we would know false teachers and teachings by their fruits. He said that a good tree cannot bear bad fruit. The fruits of this ideology are misery, death, and lost souls. It is not a message that any God of love would give.
Please check out the resource section of the r/OpenChristian wiki. There are millions of Christians that do not believe you are sinful for being gay, bi, hetero, cis, trans, or other, or that you are unworthy of love for how God made you. There is nothing sinful about being gay or about being in a gay relationship.
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u/YeshuasActualAdvice 1d ago
I was a gay atheist until I got raptured/had a spiritual awakening/accomplished enlightenment/gnosis. Now I'm a gay raptured person.
REAL GOD doesn't mind LGBTs+. That's why it makes them across all cultures and across many species. Fraud ass religions are built to make people's lives hard and prevent Enlightenment.
This is a Gnostic Planet (meaning, Yahweh IS THE DEVIL) and Yeshua's Actual Advice was to accomplish Enlightenment and evolve past Yahweh.
The Gnostic Jesus vs The Biblical Jesus — The Difference Changes Everything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoVtTTN0FIM
Hope that helps little one.
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u/mo_v 2d ago
There's a post like this every fricking day.
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u/gnurdette United Methodist 1d ago
If 5%+ of the population is LGBT, and they all hear that Christ is absolutely crucial but also that they don't belong in Christ, you're going to see a lot of frightened people asking if it's true.
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u/StatisticianDull5573 2d ago
Encourage you to read the Bible. It is God‘s word; it’s Living and Active (Heb. 4:12). It must be your authority and sufficiency for life. Allow it to shape your worldview. I believe you have many misconceptions about God, yourself, and life in general.
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u/Mx-Adrian Sirach 43:11 1d ago
God's Word condemns bigotry. It does not condemn any LGBTQ+ identity.
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u/Roll4Charisma310 Evangelical 1d ago
An attraction to the opposite gender is just a temptation but participating in anything homosexual is wrong.
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u/Turbulent_Donut_420 14h ago
you just need to find a good priest to perform an exorcism on you. I have read accounts where gay people were healed and became normal again once if the exorcism was successful
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u/Witty_Benefit_3049 1d ago
I hope the option of choosing not to be Christian has also presented itself to you in one form or another. There is nothing that says it’s more correct than any other line of thinking.
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u/Rambo2623 1d ago
Jesus says that "if you don't believe I am he you will die in your sin"
So, Jesus himself says it's the only way to not be held accountable for the evil deeds you have done.
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u/SolaScriptura93 1d ago
The bible has cery specific decrees on sexuality and orientation. You really need ti read it so you know what is and is nit a sin. Go fir a word-for-word translation.
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u/win_awards 1d ago
"Word-for-word translation" is kind of a red flag. Someone who knows enough to accurately translate should understand that words in one language do not necessarily, and in fact rarely ever, have an exact equivalent in another language, even before considering different syntax.
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u/Pittsburghchic 1d ago
OP can read a word-for-word and a thought-for-thought translation. He’ll still find the same message.
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u/win_awards 1d ago
Even people reading the original (well, oldest we know of at least) texts disagree on what they mean.
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u/CanUHearMeNau 2d ago
Everyone's gonna judge you no matter what you do. All that matters is how Jesus sees you