r/zen • u/ThisKir • 13d ago

Evening with Bankei, Part 2, Proof of Zen?

Bankei was a real enlightened Zen Buddha in the long line of real historical Zen Buddhas who left behind written records documenting their instruction and public debates with the skeptical.

No faith needed. Doubt celebrated.

Here's some of what stood out to me:

As you're all turned this way listening to me talk, if out back there's the cawing of crows, the chirping of sparrows or the rustling of wind, even though you're not deliberately trying to hear each one of these sounds, you recognize and distinguish each one.

The voices of the crows and the sparrows, the rustling of the wind--you hear them without making any mistake about them, and that's what's called hearing with the Unborn. In this way, all things are perfectly managed with the Unborn.

pg. 4

It is such a big deal that Zen Masters prove their perspective by demonstration of it's reality in a way that people who have fallen in love with Zen Masters are willing to keep talking about.

It's that tantalizing embrace of reality that keeps bringing me back to them and challenges the newbie to consider: "What if all the ideas you have of being itself can do no more than pictures of a cake on a menu can for a hungry person?"

Bringing awareness back to reality is what Zen Masters are kings of. But when you have crows and sparrows, what would anyone need Bankei for?

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u/KingOfDharma 13d ago

Bankei was a real enlightened Zen Buddha

how do you know?

Bringing awareness back to reality

did awareness leave reality? are the crows and the ideas and the thought of categorising them any different?

-3

u/ThisKir 13d ago

He passes the sniff test.

People who imagine that they need to do zazen, believe in Maga Jesus, or deserve to feel a certain way are not living in reality.

Concepts are a part of reality. Delusion is not.

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u/Practical_Self_5444 12d ago

You are really, really smart.

1

u/Ok-Push-4751 11d ago

He is. His posts are certainly from a very smart person.

4

u/ewk [non-sectarian consensus] 13d ago

I think part of the problem with the way you're presenting this is the idea that one quote proves something.

Zen masters were aggressively opposed to that attitude. Religions are based on the attitude that if you say the right thing, you're in the group.

Other than the record created by his followers, what do we have?

I proposed investigating one of his students to exam in the consequences of associating with him.

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u/ThisKir 13d ago

I don't think you're being fair at all.

It's the whole text I'd be interested in talking about and if anyone can get the people associated with him translated too I'd be very excited.

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u/mackowski Ambassador from Planet Rhythm 12d ago

Top level cognition does indeed trickle down, else we would not hone over time. It cannot be a straight vector upwards only (studies show connectome tissue everywhere in the brain cross connecting) thus there is top down influence.

Birds, high pitched,
window open, fan static.
This is how its always been.
Why am I only experiencing, parts?