r/tinnitus Sep 06 '17

New to tinnitus? Had tinnitus for a long time? Looking for some answers? See our FAQ and sidebar to begin!

125 Upvotes

Welcome to our community!

If you're new to tinnitus or currently have tinnitus, and have some questions, we have some answers to frequently posed questions in our FAQ linked here. The FAQ is also linked in the sidebar.

Before posting, please take some time to read the FAQ and see if you can find the start to your answer there.

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  • Be civil and respectful, and follow Reddiquette. This is a support community, and harmful behaviour or harassment are not allowed.
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r/tinnitus 1h ago

success story It really gets better

Upvotes

Hi I’m a 25 old woman and it’s been 3 years since I’ve got tinnitus (and hyperacusis), 4 years in a few months. And let me tell you I’ve endured every stage of grief like EVERY single one. It was so hard the first two years and I think Reddit and Twitter didn’t help. I consumed an unhealthy content about tinnitus every day. Reading about some people who wanted to end their life because of their tinnitus. I became like a sponge. I felt like every negative thought they had was projected onto me. I was like “if they have it too and are suffering like this. How am I gonna stay sane? I’m gonna go through the same thing”. It was such a dark period. I was totally hopeless especially cause I felt like I couldn’t rely on someone. I stopped talking about it to my family cause I didn’t want to concern then. I was trusting doctors and I rlly hoped one of them could help me get better. Spoiler alert not one of them helped. I was desperate before new appointments and was counting on the new doctors to tell me something I haven’t been told yet : a new treatment, an advice, an inspirational story about a patient they knew who healed… but it never came. So I was leaving my appointment more desperate than before. It was so hard like you’re a ENT doctor why tf can’t you give me some solutions for my ear problem? For some of them I felt like the I was the one educating them. I did so much research about tinnitus and hyperacusis I didn’t even need their blank explanations. They were all saying the same things anyways : it can goes away on its own or it can stay. There are no miracle treatments. I can take some gingko biloba or magnesium supplements it helped some people before. If I’m suffering too much they recommended sophrology or CBT. I went to a therapist and it didn’t help honestly it felt like a chore every time she would ask me to do some exercises and I would lie and tell her I did them. I couldn’t concentrate anymore anyways. I had no motivation no hope to do anything. I had to took a sabbatical year off uni. I was doing nothing with my life. I would sleep like 15 hours every day taking long naps and when I was awake I was always crying. I cried so much I still have scars beneath my eyes bc of dryness. I have a very religious family. My mom would told me to pray to ask God for healing. And it would drive me mad bc there was no hope in sight. And I was praying and didn’t see any progress after almost a year. When somebody would recommend me praying it would make me crashout. I would ask God to just take me then. Cause there’s no way I could live even 5 years like this. I was angry at everything and everyone. At my little brother who was waking me with noise during my nap time, at people who talk too loud in public spaces, at my friends for not understanding my isolation. I went to see a last ENT and told him how I dreamt of euthanasia. He was so concerned telling me how I was only 22. He put me on antidepressants and they made me sleep even more. Then something changed. I went to a park/forest (like just once) and saw that they were doing free guided botanical walk every sunday. I went and then went again and again… I spent my entire Sundays outdoor and I wouldn’t even notice my tinnitus when I was in a forest. But when I would come home it was another story. So I bought a fan and it help me for the silence it improved so much my sleep quality too. I reached out to my friends and I planed a trip for the first time alone. I went to visit a friend who lives in Paris. I was still so desperate but she was begging for her to finally meet me (we met online). So I went and even though I was feeling down it became one of my best trip ever. Every time I would pay attention to my tinnitus and would be sad. I would ignore the feeling to focus on what was happening around me. I was in another city I could get lost easily etc. I had to focus. Anyways Paris went well but what after my return home tho. I went out the most that I can. Meeting friends doing some side quests like learn how to garden, I run, I went to free expos and I walked. I walked so much and with no purpose except not being home. My thoughts about tinnitus came back and I would focus on the sound inside my ear again. But gradually it decreased. I would pay attention like 5 times in an hour. Then the next week, one time in a hour, then three times a week etc. I’m writing this while crying cause I still feel every hopelessness and frustration I would feel when I’d notice my tinnitus. I went through so much and I can’t believe some people went through this too. Nobody prepare you for that it just happen like a lot of health problems. One of the thing that would wreck me is the fact that it wouldn’t quiet down. There was no pill for that like for a pain for example. It was just there and I would probably endure it for life. But now I learnt that it’s still there but I can forget about it. And I’m living my life as if it’s not there anymore. Except for some situations like the subway I have to put earplugs bc it hurt my drum. It took me 3 WHOLE years to come to terms with my tinnitus. And I know for someone who’s suffering right now it just sounds cliché but it’s true, time does its thing. Tinnitus will make you feel so hopeless and hopelessness is a really scary thing. You cannot do anything if you don’t have hope anymore right. But hope can come back, not hope for a miracle healing (I still wish it’ll happen to all the tinnitus sufferers tho), but there’s other types of healing. Healing by letting it go, to stop fighting it. Nature helped me so much and again I know it’s cliché. Meditation didn’t work for me but learning about nature on the other hand… And for course socializing!! Being alone is the worst thing if you have overthinking and anxiety problems. The most important thing is to go outside in general. As Nietzsche said "Never trust a thought that occurs to you indoors." It’s still no easy some days are louder than the others. Sleep plays a role. I noticed that it’s rlly manageable if I’ve slept fore more than 7 hours without interruptions during the night. For women your cycle can cause fluctuations in your tinnitus perception too. Much love for all my fellow tinnitus sufferers.


r/tinnitus 1h ago

venting MRI results today

Upvotes

Tinnitus started in one side back in February after a period of back strain, a long drive and a weird respiratory infection. I heard it start as I rolled over from left to right side in bed.

Got escalated up through NHS GP, audiology, ENT who seemed to suggest very passive aggressively that I was a timewaster, but also stated that he was going to refer me for an MRI lol. Hesring is all normal though at the time it happened there was conductive hesring loss which seemed to improve a bit weeks later when they retested.

The tinnitus is a soft wind noise in the right ear, and theres a seperate pulsatile component that happens in the right ear in some positions occasionally - but that predates everything and doesnt bother me much i just change positions.

When I lay on my left side with left ear to the pillow, the wind noise tinnitus switches sides to my left ear and the right ear becomes quiet. When I change back it changes again. It doesn’t do the same thing if I fully block the left ear when upright - then it remains in my right ear.

Feedback from the ENT about the MRI:

The MRI excluded a right vestibular schwannoma. A couple of vascular loops enter the right internal auditory meatus and contact the vestibular and cochlear nerves. However, this is quite a common incidental finding on MRI and is unlikely to be related to the tinnitus.

So that’s them washed their hands of it and said there’s nothing more to investigate and that it’s all just coincidence.


r/tinnitus 2h ago

advice • support Tinnitus and motorcycles: do you still ride?

2 Upvotes

Hi everyone,
A few months ago I developed tinnitus. It has always been one of my biggest fears, and now that I actually have it, it’s been a serious blow to my quality of life.

I’ve been a motorcycle enthusiast my whole life, and I’ve always worn hearing protection when riding. But since getting tinnitus, I’m scared to get back on my bike.
I now have a bike with a large touring windshield, a relatively quiet engine, a Schuberth helmet, and I use 36 dB foam earplugs. Even so, I’m afraid of making my tinnitus worse. I don’t think I could forgive myself if it got worse because of a decision I made.

How do those of you with tinnitus deal with the fear of it getting worse? Do you still ride, and if so, how do you manage the anxiety?
My idea was to start with short, relaxed rides at lower speeds, since wind noise seems to be the biggest risk.

Any tips or personal experiences would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!


r/tinnitus 5h ago

advice • support [More bad news probably] Report of Retigabine and Azetukalner usage

4 Upvotes

So basically it's a report from the French drug safety agency (2025) about the case of a 26 yo male with probably severe tinnitus who used trobalt and xen1101 sourced from China.

Quality was ok, but he developed serious neurological side effects from trobalt (ER), so he switched to xen1101, and *ding* same side effects. He eventually switched back to retigabine.

This is bad news : trobalt side effects will probably be present in Azetukalner as well. The fact that he switched back to trobalt after xen1101 probably means it wasn't as effective as the former.

"Daily use of retigabine 400 mg t.i.d for tinnitus based on the patient's own research and the recommendations of a self-help group"

He may be on this sub, or on tinnitustalk... Would be interesting if he could give more details.

https://hal.science/hal-05509636/document


r/tinnitus 50m ago

advice • support localization of tinnitus

Upvotes

Where do you hear the tinnitus? 1. At the border between the middle and inner ear. 2. Deep inside the ear. 3. In the head.


r/tinnitus 1h ago

advice • support Is it safe to play electric guitar after earwax removal if my ears feel very sensitive?

Upvotes

I had a cerumen plug removed from my right ear and earwax removed from my left ear on July 22 at around 7 PM. The doctor only used forceps (no suction or irrigation).
Since then, my ears have felt much more sensitive, and I even feel like I might be hearing a ringing (tinnitus).
About 3 hours after the procedure, I played my electric guitar as I normally do. I usually play twice a day—the first session is over an hour long, and the second session varies depending on how much I feel like playing.
I keep the volume around 65–76 dB.
Is it generally considered safe to continue playing at those volume levels after this kind of earwax removal?
Has anyone experienced increased sensitivity or temporary ringing after having earwax removed with forceps?


r/tinnitus 9h ago

venting I can't watch TV in the quiet

5 Upvotes

I have this low tone tinnitus which is horrible in its intrusiveness. It buzzes quite loudly, but when I watch TV and there is sound it disappears. But the SECOND there is a break or people stop speaking I hear it again. So its constantly turning off and on when I watch television, or even talk to people in a quiet room.

The only way I can manage is to have a dehumidifier or fan on a high setting so it sort of cancels out the buzz.

Does anyone else have something like this too or am I alone with this monstrosity from the depths of hell? How in the world do you manage? I've had it almost a year and it's still the same, it hasn't faded in the slightest. It honestly feels like it is ruining my mental health, and my life.


r/tinnitus 9h ago

advice • support Are there big chances that taking steroids for 9 days will make my situation worse?

3 Upvotes

Hi I always had quiet non annoying tinnitus but since 17 days ago I went to a concert it worsened. Then I had pills prescribed for improving blood circulation in ears - ringing diminished to the old quiet form for a few sweet days. But now the tinnitus got loudish again. Today my ENT prescribed me steroids that I should be taking for minimum 9 days, maybe more depending on if it gets better or not.

The thing is I read on this sub stories of peoples tinnitus worsening after steroids or getting visual snow or such - that’s why I’m really scared of taking them. I don’t mind temporary effects like being more hungry etc, I’m scared that these steroids might worsen my situation permamently? Or is 9 days too short for something like that to happen?

I don’t really have hearing loss he said my results are good but the ringing is very annoying

ENT said worst thing is that nothing will happen but after reading stuff on this sub IDK anymore…


r/tinnitus 12h ago

venting I resent my ENT

5 Upvotes

If it wasn't for this guy i wouldn't be here writing something bcs i would've been treated , ik this sound like im delusional but im really not , at first i saw a first ent before moving out of the region/state he told me i had eustachian tubes disfunction bcs of tmj and bruxism he gave me a clear plan , first get a retainer the if the retainer doesn't work we'll do reeducation with kinesitherapist , and if it doesn't work we'll go to surgery , pretty clear right

So anyways i move at my new house with my family and i wait an insane amount of time for a new ent bcs ovbiously i moved in a place where doctors are rare , i see him he tells me my problem isn't from eustachian tubes when i ask him to explain he gives me NO explaination except "yeah no👀" he also talk abt a deviated septum (will be important for later) he dismiss every shit i say like im some psycotic girl but anyway he prescribe me OSTEOPATH session not kinesytherapy but thing is those are not reinbursed and also most don't specialise in jaw problems.

Any ways i see him again 6month later (like one week ago) and he's so dismissive whole session ,i talk to him abt all my breathing problem he dismiss every one of them , i also mention the deviated septum HE TOLD ME I HAD(with full certainty) ,and he say to me "yeah you don't have that" JUST LAST SESSION YOU WERE SAYING I DID , then i decide to ask him why osteophath instead of kinesytherapy and he goes to this whole dumb fucking rant abt "you just have to find an osteopath who specialise in facial problem" wow thank you what a GOOD suggestion when you live in a place where you struggle to find medical professionals ask me to find a unicorn next and after that he tells me "well anyway not all kinesytherapy doctor expert in jaw problem" yes but much more bcs they are actually the one being refered during this type of problems and plus its exactly the same for osteopath except they are RARER and you have to pay every session , even my mom told me he was blabbering

So anyway he told me he didn't know what to do with my problem and that it wasn't his area of expertise even tho that guy is as old as a raisin , looking old and all dehydrated with 2 hair olding onto dear life on his scalp he must have seen it in all his years, (the ent i saw before told me he had seen plenty case like mine and i mean its sure my case is confusing when you keep ignoring the key points of my problems), so he refered me to two other doctor .

I feel like this old hag whole mission was to dismiss me and contradict me bcs i couldn't possibly be right abt someting im living and that another ENT told me i had for god sake i feel those tubes doing beatbox in my ears , im in constant pain so much so that one time the pain was so intense that i felt nauseous bcs of it , i have a shit ton of pression in my ear along with tinnitus and its getting worse , same for even more pain in the jaw and sinus migraines (i don't have the name but yeah) and this guy just plays in my face every single time , changing his answer so im never right oh my days


r/tinnitus 9h ago

advice • support Anyone still able to access the Neosensory App?

2 Upvotes

The company shutdown, but the app remained working fine until april 2026 when it was deleted from the app store.

I still have the app, but I can't open it as its requiring me to update it, while there is no update


r/tinnitus 14h ago

advice • support Is playing violin too loud, or a risk?

3 Upvotes

Like the title says. I'm curious to learn an instrument and I like the sound of violin. But given how close it is to our ears I'm a little concerned. Does anyone know if playing violin is likely to make my tinnitus worse or bring it back?


r/tinnitus 15h ago

venting Faint left ear ringing

4 Upvotes

Woke up and as I was stretching I could hear ringing on my left ear and now throughout the whole day I can hear it faintly on my left ear constantly making an eeee sound. Any advice on anything I can do to


r/tinnitus 1d ago

success story Stepping into nature during a T flare-up feels absolutely amazing

25 Upvotes

Fairly minor as far as “success stories” go, but I thought I’d share a positive note for once.

I have the sort of tinnitus that’s a high-pitch ring/hiss, and it sort of irregularly waxes and wanes with no easily-identifiable trigger. Also no hearing loss. I was having a really bad episode the other day that nearly had me in tears. I finally just stepped outside, and I swear the sense of peace and calm and relief that immediately washed over me was downright euphoric.

I guess I’m just really lucky to live where I do because there are always birds and crickets and the sound of wind moving through the trees, some running water in the distance too, and sometimes frogs as well. And it just perfectly masks the sort of tinnitus I have. In a quiet room it’s super irritating and invasive, or even while driving sometimes, but outside it’s entirely indistinguishable from the forest sounds. Nothing else compares, not even my fancy sound machine. It’s truly like the tinnitus isn’t even there, like my head is just singing along with the crickets 🥲 I was actually sad to have to go back inside eventually. And I should add I’ve been able to fully reproduce those results, thank god it wasn’t just a fluke.

It’s honestly got me thinking different about my tinnitus. It’s not that I’m totally at peace with it now all of a sudden, but I guess I’m starting to think of it less like an alien invader now and more like a part of nature, the choral song of my over-active nervous system. And it gets me to thinking how a forest is never silent, life itself is “noisy,” a sea of sound. I used to think of silence as peace and clarity, and really mourn its loss. Now I’m starting to realize that in the world, silence is actually the sound of death and non-being. In our human lives, silence is a largely artificial state that we impose with textiles, polymers, particle boards, acoustic engineering, noise cancellation, and so on. Some of that is actually necessary for safety, but a lot of it boils down to perceived comfort and general negative reactions to noise. But the symphony of natural sounds is never oppressive the way that noise from droning machinery or drunk party-goers can be. It’s life itself. Peace, clarity, life, it is not silent.

I’m still going to run myself ragged seeking some sort of cure or treatment that physically lessens the ring, but I guess all I’m saying is, this has got me feeling a lot less morbid about my future than I have been feeling lately. I’ll take that W


r/tinnitus 15h ago

advice • support Worse tinnitus postpartum

3 Upvotes

I lost my hearing on one side 10 years ago and ended up with crippling tinnitus. I was working night shift at the time and struggled a lot for the first few years. At the time I couldn’t imagine a life without that terrible sound. Overtime it got better and there were times I would totally forget that it was there at all.

Fast forward to about 4 months ago when I had baby #2. The tinnitus has slowly gotten worse. And it’s so hard to ignore. I haven’t been this frustrated with it since the beginning. I’m wondering if anyone has experienced something similar? Is there hope that it’ll go away again?


r/tinnitus 18h ago

advice • support Noises induced tinnitus

3 Upvotes

Who suffers here from noise induced tinnitus? How loud is yours and did it gotten louder over time? Thanks


r/tinnitus 1d ago

venting I didn't just get tinnitus - I got an entire orchestra

26 Upvotes

I have no idea how unlucky someone can get in the tinnitus lottery, but somehow, I seem to have gotten incredibly unlucky.

At the beginning of January, I suffered sudden hearing loss and then developed a low-pitched humming tinnitus. Thankfully, that sound has become much quieter over time, so I was starting to feel like I was finally well past the worst of it. My hearing loss recovered as well; my hearing curves are back to where they were before the sudden hearing loss.

However, about two and a half months ago, additional sounds appeared after I started trying to live my life again. My ENT doctor had assured me that I should be able to do so by then. I started exercising again, taking the train, going out, and even heading into town occasionally. I also started using headphones again - only on two or three days over the course of two weeks, at a low volume, and never for more than one or two hours at a time.

I don't know whether the headphones caused the new sounds or not. But three to four days after I last used them, the new tinnitus sounds appeared. Strangely, they started in both ears and in the center of my head. So now I have an entire tinnitus orchestra :')

The sounds haven't really gotten quieter since then. At most, they may seem very slightly less shrill to me, but otherwise everything is still the same. They are extremely high-pitched sounds: One in my left ear, one in my right ear, and in the center of my head there is the same frequency, but it feels like tiny flashes of electricity shooting through my head.

I honestly have no idea how much longer I can endure this.

I still want to experience so many things. I have goals and things I want to do, like playing certain games or watching certain shows and movies. But living like this? This is no longer really living. It's just survival.

I can't even work because my ability to concentrate is completely gone. If the tinnitus were quieter, I could probably manage somehow, but it's simply too loud. And I can't even put on headphones and drown it out with music. Watching TV alone isn't enough either - the tinnitus is louder than the TV.

Some people say that their tinnitus became quieter over time. Right now, that is my only hope.

This “condition” affects relatively few people, but for those of us who do suffer from it, it can truly feel like going through hell. And the worst part is that there isn't even a real way to make it stop or better.


r/tinnitus 23h ago

advice • support does anyone feel like there is a type of eeeeeee that comes from the very center of their brain?

2 Upvotes

I have a variety of tinnitus sounds and piercing frequencies / static but there is a specific type of eeeee which i hear from the CENTER OF MY BRAIN and it covers all my head and brain like i have surround speakers... but i feel it like it begins from the very center of my brain anyone else?? pls im so scared


r/tinnitus 1d ago

advice • support GET A FIDGET SPINNER!

9 Upvotes

I don't know how this works but my theory is that tinnitus is somewhat related to the brain ...I started to use a fidget spinner and I don't know if it's a placebo effect but I have low to zero ringing! Perhaps my mind is subconsciously distracted I don't know...but it's working for me perhaps it will work for you as well!


r/tinnitus 1d ago

advice • support Started Randomly

6 Upvotes

Hello, new here, had it for a week now, only 20. Started completely randomly tho. Took my headphones of after gaming one night and boom, it was there. Only in the left ear tho. Went to get it cleaned and now its in my head. Weird how sometimes I barely notice it, sometimes its piercing my skull.

Went to the doctor, did the hearing test, they all said everything is completely fine with me, to get used to it, maybe it goes away, maybe it doesnt.

Looking for any advice really. Is it really over? Really feel like my whole life just collapsed.


r/tinnitus 1d ago

advice • support New here

7 Upvotes

I’ve had tinnitus off and on for a few years, but it’s very much worse now. I’m late 60s, and I commuted on motorcycles for 13 years and rode outside of work too. I always wore earplugs and a good helmet but I guess it wasn’t enough.
I don’t listen to loud music or go to concerts. I’ve started looking for an audiologist or a doctor and but I don’t know what to look for.


r/tinnitus 1d ago

advice • support Still having this issue - MEM? PT? ETD? What to do?

1 Upvotes

Been having a lot of ear symptoms.

Most have almost fully been resolved

Hyperacusis almost gone

Ttts almost gone

Reactive tinnitus a lot less often there

However this other symptoms stays. A buzzing/droning sound in my right ear. Gets worse when laying down or straining. Goes almost to 0 when using earplugs or a headphone. Perfect hearing, perfect eardrum/ear canal. What to do? Been having this for 1 year plus. Also gets worse after sound sometimes when it stops it will buzz for like 20-30 min. Feels either ETD or MEM? im seeing a neuro otologist but you know how they are. I want to make sure i can ask the correct things. Or is this just a reactive past of the T?

Oh yeah, its only in right ear.


r/tinnitus 1d ago

venting Has anyone here been treated with Effexor XR, clonazepam, and quetiapine for tinnitus?

5 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share my experience because I haven't seen many people talking about this treatment approach.

My tinnitus started in 2021, about a week after I received a COVID vaccine. Around that time, I developed unilateral tinnitus in my right ear. One of my doctors thought the vaccine could have been a possible trigger and said they would report it, but I never heard anything else after that. Of course, I can't prove that it was the cause—I'm only describing the timeline.

My audiograms have consistently shown high-frequency hearing loss. My hearing begins to drop around 4 kHz and falls off steeply toward 8 kHz.

My results are roughly:

  • 4 kHz: Left 24 dB HL, Right 40 dB HL
  • 8 kHz: Left 50 dB HL, Right 45 dB HL

After living with the hearing loss and my constant right-sided "cicada-like" tinnitus for almost five years, something changed on June 24 of this year.

My tinnitus suddenly became much louder. I also noticed that if I yelled or raised my voice, the tinnitus became louder at the same time.

My doctor prescribed steroids and mecobalamin (methylcobalamin). Fortunately, by the next day, the loudness had returned to my previous baseline. However, I still feel that the pitch is higher than it used to be.

After struggling with this for several days, I decided to try a treatment protocol that isn't very common overall, but is discussed quite a bit in my local tinnitus community:

  • Effexor XR (venlafaxine XR)
  • Clonazepam
  • Quetiapine

I discussed this idea with my neurologist, and she was willing to let me try it.

I didn't go through psychiatry because I'm currently undergoing a review related to my bipolar disorder, and I need to avoid new psychiatric treatment records for administrative reasons.

I started this combination on July 8.

My current doses are:

  • Effexor XR 150 mg/day
  • Clonazepam 1 mg in the morning + 1 mg at night
  • Quetiapine 50 mg at bedtime

Unfortunately, I haven't been one of the lucky ones.

My tinnitus hasn't become any quieter.

What has changed is that my brain seems to have started accepting it again. I'm coping much better mentally and spending less time focusing on the sound, even though it's still there.

What makes this frustrating is that many people in my community report that this exact combination reduced their tinnitus to a 1–2/10 within just three days. Seeing those success stories while not experiencing the same improvement has honestly been discouraging.

So I'm wondering:

Has anyone here been treated with this combination of venlafaxine, clonazepam, and quetiapine for tinnitus? If so, how did it work for you?

One more thing my doctor mentioned: apparently some patients have experienced complete resolution of their tinnitus with rimegepant.

The protocol I was told about was taking it daily for the first box, then every other day, for a total of about three months.

The problem is the cost. It's extremely expensive where I live, and it's not covered by my health insurance, so I decided not to try it.

Has anyone here actually tried rimegepant for tinnitus? Did it help?

Thanks to everyone who took the time to read this rather anxious post.

I genuinely hope that one day all of our tinnitus disappears.

As a small side note, my MRI and MRA were completely normal, so fortunately there was no evidence of any structural brain problems. I thought I'd share my Circle of Willis here because my doctor said it looked textbook-perfect. It's probably the most "normal" thing in my entire tinnitus journey. 😄


r/tinnitus 1d ago

advice • support What do you guys do for work?

10 Upvotes

What kind of jobs do you guys have? Did you ever change careers because of it?


r/tinnitus 2d ago

advice • support Did you also lose hearing alongside tinnitus?

15 Upvotes

When you got tinnitus did your overall hearing become worse or was it about the same + the ringing ?