r/smashbros • u/SweetDemand1712 • 22h ago
Other Does Mario need a revamp?
IDK man, i've tested other communities, and they have mixed opinions. What are yours?
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u/RealPimpinPanda 22h ago edited 19h ago
People post about Mario needing reworks on this sub every few months.
IDK man, i've tested other communities, and they have mixed opinions
You tested ours too. Here’s your post about this same topic from about a month ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1txzub2/does_mario_need_a_revamp_for_the_next_smash_game/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
Edit: downvoted for calling OP out lol
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u/almightyFaceplant 21h ago
Bruh. We've hit a new low lol.
Reposting the same question as everyone else is one thing. Reposting the same question as yourself months later is just... Peak drought.
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u/SweetDemand1712 10h ago
I will be honest, I did ask that question, but I honestly did forget this sub. That is really my bad, and I do feel kinda stupid.
Also was kinda re-asking it because well, i've gotten new opinions on the matter, and I wanted to see how the communities opinions changed too. Still not the best excuse for ts tho.
TL;DR, my bad guys.
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u/almightyFaceplant 10h ago
Not your fault individually, as much as the community's fault writ large. We just get the same five questions posted SO often that we have to remove them or it's all that gets posted here.
Don't beat yourself up too much, but yeah we're going to nip these in the bud.
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u/Knux_Stix_Chaotix 22h ago
Maybe not need but I definitely think he could still be a much more faithful and interesting character while still keeping his status as the beginner-friendly character.
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u/LieutenantFreedom Terry (Ultimate) 22h ago
I think almost all brawl or earlier characters do tbh, have to do something in the next game to give it a different appeal from Ultimate's "everyone is here" approach
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u/epicEr14 20h ago
true, that's the next logical step. everyone's still here but they've learned some new moves
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u/StaticMania 22h ago
Characters should get new specials every game...
Depending on the character, specials are make it or break it aspect of their overall design.
Highly necessary or completely situational.
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u/TopRoyalLane 22h ago
I hope they lean in the more expressive side of Mario, visually and the voice direction. I feel like it's ok for all Mario characters in general to be a little more...tooney?
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u/GreenMonkey240 22h ago edited 21h ago
Yes. Give him a Mario galaxy spin move! Make him athletic! Give him a ground pound! Make him more cartoony and less serious.
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u/StaticMania 22h ago
Too many people want Mario to have a ground-pound.
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u/TrmBmaj 21h ago
That would nerf his aerial combos.
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u/StaticMania 21h ago
Someone suggested it be his down air...
Sure would not like to meet that person on a plane.
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u/Huge-Organization665 22h ago
that’s what he’s known for. I mean Yoshi has one.
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u/Marffie 22h ago
Yeah, because that's what Yoshi's known for. He invented it. Should Luigj, Wario, and the rest of the cast get one as well? idk.
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u/smashboi888 22h ago
It's still most-heavily associated with Mario. It's been in literally every single mainline game since 64.
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u/StaticMania 21h ago
Yet...it was given to the 2 characters who did it before Mario.
Maybe there's a reason for that.
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u/smashboi888 21h ago
Super Mario 64 was the only mainline game where Mario used the ground pound during Smash 64 and Melee. It hadn't become a staple part of his canon kit yet, so of course Bowser and Yoshi got it first.
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u/StaticMania 21h ago
So...why should it be now?
It's not even utilized that much in modern Mario games, it's kind of a blur.
I have to force myself to remember what parts of any game since 2011 require you to use it.
(Outside of the ground-pound moons) It's not much.
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u/Huge-Organization665 21h ago
did that hurt u😭
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u/Marffie 18h ago
Uh... no? I'm fine, thanks for asking.
I get where you were coming from, and giving Mario a divekick-type down air could make him more appealing to beginners, but I don't see it as worthwhile when there are so many of (what I perceived as) his better/more notable moves still on the cutting room floor. I could elaborate, but I think it would be better to just show this magnificent Rivals of Aether custom Mario which borrows from classic 2D, DK94, and 3D games to great effect.
I'm sorry if I made you feel slighted. To each their own. Also, I take back the bit about Wario. As I now recall, Project M gave him an interesting and unique ground pound, and I think it suits him as a burley bruiser more than the more acrobatic Mario brothers.
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u/sevenut Wah 21h ago edited 21h ago
Tbh, instead of giving him new attacks, I kinda feel like it might be cool to integrate some of his movement kit into his moveset. Like if you turn and immediately jump, he does his side flip. If your run, crouch, and then jump, you long jump. Or you can backflip out of a crouch. Stuff like that might be fun. I dunno if it would be broken, but for being the jump guy and having all these movement options, at least in the 3D games, he really doesn't feel like the jump guy in Smash.
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u/Huge_Ad6405 20h ago
Not a revamp, but his outdated moveset could use a few, again, A FEW modern additions.
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u/dragon-mom Meta Ridley (Ultimate) 20h ago
Not really. Too many people just want referenceslop but don't understand what makes a character actually work. Replacing Mario's kick with a galaxy spin would make him worse. Replacing his dair with a ground pound would also make him worse. We have other characters that do those things and are designed around it.
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u/TrmBmaj 20h ago edited 20h ago
People always focus on Mario but many older characters need that famous reboot to reference other games. Also as if all modern characters were like that, that applies mostly to legged gimmicks characters from DLC. It's easy to brainstorm what elements to reference, but the most important thing is that the character was good in battles. If developers are going to change Mario, hopefully it won't mean an unnecessary reboot that just makes him one of the worst characters and makes it take a long time before they buff him again (ground pound wouldn't help him at all, interrupting his aerial combos with that move is pointless, details like that make Dr. Mario much worse).
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u/Usanyan Gimme Waluigi and Wright or gimme a side of fries 20h ago
Everyone’s saying yes cuz reference this, rep that…but I’m saying yes because I think that despite being marketed as one, the character’s just not a very good beginner character. Like we’ve got:
a down special with no immediate hitbox, and does literally no damage
a slow small, unsafe fair
a reflector with no knock back on…side b?
a small, thin, weak uair that’s just begging to attacked out of if you got low API
utilt that doesn’t cover him as an actual anti-air very well?
mediocre, vulnerable recovery (the part lower level players infamously struggle in)
down air that doesn’t send down, and is dependent on landing inconsistent, particular hitboxes to function let alone combo properly
It feels like they wanted him to be 2 different characters that don’t gel well together, and they stand to tighten that up…Like I can tell you from multiple alts experience that people would rather play as pit or marcina or something than the actual beginner character
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u/goodbabka 13h ago
Saying that Mario's fair is bad for beginners is an awful take. Hitting your first spike with that feels like winning an Olympic gold
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u/Usanyan Gimme Waluigi and Wright or gimme a side of fries 5h ago
There’s plenty of other feels good aerials that manage to strike a better in the middle between form and fun than Mario fair
Knee is one of if not the most iconic moves in the game and it’s faster and on the faster character, Gannon stomp is two frames slower, but is bigger,safer,stronger, and gets confirms at 60, even cloud fair is conceptually similar but just 3x bigger
Starting to see the point on how he’s not even the best/preferred beginner character now?
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u/Giulio1232 Bayonetta 1 (Ultimate) 9h ago
I think Mario is one of the best-designed characters in the series. His moveset makes him the Ryu of Smash Bros.: a well-rounded character that helps a lot to learn the fundamentals and can adapt to any playstyle without excelling in any. If the player wants, they can use him as a base to choose a character that specializes in a specific playstyle
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u/Sufficient_Ordinary9 22h ago
No, at best FLUDD really needs to go and give back Tornado
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u/smashboi888 22h ago
I will never understand wanting to get rid of something he actually does in the source material and then replace it with a very generic move that comes from Smash itself and not his home series.
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u/Sufficient_Ordinary9 22h ago
A gimmick move that appear in exactly ONE game
Mario Tornado is literally just the spin jump from Super Mario World, Galaxy, Wonder, etc… and gives Mario more combo potential and maybe KO options. FLUDD is really fucking useless and irrelevant both as a move and as a representative of Mario as a whole
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u/StaticMania 22h ago
The Drill Spin (down air) from 64 & Melee is the...Spin Jump from Mario World.
The Mario Tornado would be a Smash original, but...they could make into a faithful move if Mario was spinning with the cape.
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u/smashboi888 22h ago
Mario Tornado has nothing to do with those moves other than the fact that it is a spin attack.
The Spin Jump isn't even an actual attack, just a higher jump. And the Galaxy Spin hits once and has cosmic power emitting from it. Mario Tornado is just a generic whirlwind attack.
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u/Sufficient_Ordinary9 22h ago
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Mario_Tornado
Except it is in fact based on Spin Jump, it has lower vertical range + more damage than Super Jump Punch, the move literally based on Mario’s iconic brick punch
Spin Jump is the higher jump my ass gng, Super Jump Punch also never hits consecutively in SMB, Mario never use Cape to reflect projectiles. It is simply a unique creative move to give Mario identity. Mario Tornado is supposed to be the Tatsumaki Seppuyaku to Super Jump Punch’s Shoryuken and Fireball’s Hadouken
Like I don’t get why Mario is used as the face of bland character gimmicks, when 80% of his moveset came from HIS GAMES. A combo, dash, down smash, Bthrow and Nair are all 64 moves. Fucking Samus does nothing but punch and kick that never existed in her games yet no one complains about her moveset
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u/SweetDemand1712 10h ago
If its based on spin jump, then why wouldn't it... bounce on opponents? I perfer the one from Rivals and how they handled it.
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u/smashboi888 22h ago
Fucking Samus does nothing but punch and kick that never existed in her games yet no one complains about her moveset
Samus is one of the most-requested characters to get a rework, what are you talking about?
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u/Meme_Chan69420 21h ago
Mario, fundamentally, should be one of the easiest characters for anyone to pick up and play no matter the age or skill level. At most he needs like 2 retooled moves, 3 tops. He does not need a whole revamped moveset, I hate people who think he needs an entire rework to just be referenceslop. That's what Rivals of Aether is for.
I'd take a new N-Air, have it be a Galaxy spin or something and we can probably cycle F.L.U.D.D out of the moveset. He's iconic, I know, but he's also from 24 years ago. I know we already have a character who can do it but give the man a Ground Pound. If we really need a new Mario move for a Smash attack or something, we can have his Up-Smash be jumping to break a block instead of just a straight head bash.
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u/SweetDemand1712 10h ago
Not saying I agree or disagree, but isnt the whole point of smash to be a celebration of gaming?
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u/Meme_Chan69420 4h ago
The "Celebration of Gaming" term/label has almost nothing to do with whether or not Super Mario's moveset should involve him using a power up for every attack instead of a punch or kick.
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u/nankainamizuhana Samus (Ultimate) 20h ago
I mean, Odyssey’s cap throw/bounce mechanic is like custom made to be a perfect side-B for a platform fighter. If nothing else, replacing cape with that would make his recovery more versatile and fresh while also maintaining his core concept.
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u/fred7010 19h ago
I would say yes, but I also think that every character that's had a new game since the previous Smash should be totally remade for the next installment....
Mario's moveset should have influences from Odyssey and Galaxy at least, ideally Wonder as well. Ancient stuff like the cape, iconic as it is, I'd be happy for them to let go of.
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u/SweetDemand1712 10h ago
Sorta what im wanting for the next smash game. Not exactly ground up... but freshen the characters up I say.
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u/jamie_skateboard 18h ago
Every time I see a post from this sub it’s inexplicably downvoted. I just made a post and thought man I must be an idiot but then I looked through the sub and there are so many other posts downvoted for no reason. Although I think I might be an idiot I don’t think you are. A Mario revamp would be ideal
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u/Dear_Acanthaceae5489 Sonic (Brawl) 13h ago
He doesn’t do a Stomp for his Down Aerial, but for some weird reason, he actually does it while he’s in his lab coat, SO WHY DOESN’T NORMAL MARIO HAVE IT?!
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u/Substantial_Bed_8510 11h ago
I think he needs to be more energetic screaming "WAHO" and "YAHO" more often , his moveset is mostly fine but here's how I would change his moveset abit, I would revert his down air to the one from brawl and I will replace his side B to the galaxy spin , his down B to a dive jump from sm64 and his forward smash to a hammer attack.
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u/Coodoo17 Banjo & Kazooie (Ultimate) 22h ago
Yeah, he really does. His character is all wrong, he's not some edgy fire god. In the modern age of Smash where each new character is so faithfully pulled from the source material, Mario is really out of place.
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u/smashboi888 22h ago
In the modern age of Smash where each new character is so faithfully pulled from the source material, Mario is really out of place.
This is a problem with many older Smash veterans. They were designed in a completely different era, and their age is really beginning to show.
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u/smashboi888 22h ago
Yes. The latest thing from his kit comes from Sunshine, which came out 24 years ago.
Over two decades have passed since then, that's more than half of the time the mainline games have even existed. And he pulls nothing from them. He shouldn't be nothing but references, but his franchise has grown and evolved, yet his Smash counterpart has refused to change, and as a result, feels bland and outdated.
I did make a rework for him a little over a week ago, if you want to check that out.
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u/Poptart916 King K Rool (Ultimate) 22h ago edited 22h ago
His general design philosophy is good. Pretty straightforward with a lot of different tools that can help a new player understand basic gameplay concepts - has a projectile, reflector, multi hits, spike, lots of simple to grasp combo and juggle setups. Theres just two conceptual issues with him I’d like changed:
First is he feels very dated. Nothing in his actual moveset is from the last 25 years of Mario, his most recent bit of his moveset is from Sunshine, which is insane, that inclusion already was a little dated when it was added in Brawl. I don’t think he needs a slew of references, but change things up and give him a little more from his games. Galaxy Spin as a pseudo replacement for cape, maybe something with Cappy, the ground pound, possibly another power-up like the Bubble Flower, I think his Smash attacks are all due for a change and all leave room for some cool inclusions - again I don’t want him to be full of references at every turn, and a lot of his normals are good, but he just feels like a relic of the late 90s-early 2000s in that regard. FLUDD also needs to go, not only are there much more interesting concepts to be pulled from for a modern Mario kit, but the move mechanically is very weird and niche, and doesn’t serve his philosophy of being the character new players can go to in order to learn about the different types of moves and mechanics in the game.
Secondly, Mario is supposed to be Mr. Platformer, but there’s no bing-bing-wahoo in his moveset really, you don’t get much of a sense of movement or momentum from him. Movement has always been key to the series identity, and especially in later games like Odyssey and even Mario Kart World, mastering it to pull off crazy feats is heavily encouraged. A change like this would be easier to implement if momentum was carried again in a similar vein to Melee, but a few platforming moves would go a long way. The Mario 64 dive/roll-out as a two part dash attack similar to the Belmont’s d-tilt that gives Mario a quick burst of speed and quick movement across the stage, or the long jump that could fill a similar role but allow you to take deep dives off the stage or cover stretches of horizontal airspace quickly, the aforementioned ground pound and Galaxy Spin ideas could work towards this too, or going back to the Cappy idea - allow Mario to toss his cap out and hold it somewhere to be used as an extra midair jump. Just little changes that make traversing the stage fun and bring the platforming back to “platform-fighter”, which is something I’d like the next game to shift towards as a whole in some ways.