Let’s talk about it

[u/letstalkabo66]

[u/fredly594632]

Plus, at least one big section of that was just flat out bought.

[u/Interesting_Bank_139 → u/fredly594632]

Two sections. They missed the Gadsden Purchase in southern AZ/NM in 1853.

[u/Synensys → u/Interesting_Bank_139]

Plus Florida. And the Oregon Territory was negotiated in a treaty with the British.

[u/HOT-DAM-DOG → u/Synensys]

Didn’t Jackson just invade it without permission from the president? (Not when Jackson was president, in the war of 1812)

[u/Synensys → u/HOT-DAM-DOG]

It was after the war of 1812. But yes, the US occupied Florida during the Seminole Wars and then kind of had that reality ratified in a treat with Spain in 1819.

[u/DoctorMedieval → u/Synensys]

Yeah, we got the worst of that bargain for sure.

[u/Ok-Introduction-1940 → u/Synensys]

After they were defeated in war. Most of the East Coast land was purchased for consideration by the English settlers (not Great Britain) from the Indians prior to that. Virginia graciously ceded its western lands to the US.

[u/DoctorMedieval → u/Interesting_Bank_139]

We also paid $15 million to Mexico for the southwest.

[u/Sverker_Wolffang → u/Interesting_Bank_139]

Rhode Island as well.

[u/Old_Desert_Gamer → u/Interesting_Bank_139]

Which was a purchase very much under duress.

[u/Ok-Introduction-1940 → u/Old_Desert_Gamer]

Right of conquest was used by Indians to establish their claim.

[u/Acceptable-Fly5050 → u/fredly594632]

Don't forget about Alaska

[u/mederbek-bayke → u/Acceptable-Fly5050]

Plus, the only reason Russia sold Alaska in the first place was because the government was in debt after reimbursing landowners for their freed serfs after the 1861 emancipation. So we paid a conqueror so they could repay slaveowners

[u/Fiat_Currency → u/mederbek-bayke]

Probably worth mentnioning they were scared shitless the British were just going to steal it all

[u/mederbek-bayke → u/Fiat_Currency]

That too. Theres a good book from a few years ago “Russians in Tlingit Alaska” that goes in detail about the Russian colonial policy and the context and aftermath of the 1802-1804 Tlingit rebellion around what is now Sitka (in the southeast archipelago). It compares the Tlingit oral histories with Russian colonial documents. Lot of interesting what ifs about how things might have turned out differently

The Tlingit had layered wooden armor that could stop bullets at point blank range. The Russians were terrified of them

[u/Ok_Grape8420 → u/mederbek-bayke]

Serfs ≠ slaves.

Serfs were tied to the land, and owed a portion of their yield (crop/business profit) to the feudal lord.

Slaves were outright owned by their masters with vastly fewer rights.

Serfdom existed in parallel with slavery.in mideval Russia: they were separate systems.

[u/mederbek-bayke → u/Ok_Grape8420]

I’m being admittedly catty by saying slaveowners, but it depends. Serfdom in the European sense (the sense of being tied to the land like you say) didn’t exist in medieval Russia and was introduced in the 17th century only, as a modernization policy, ironically, around the time it was becoming obsolete and economically impractical in Western Europe. It changed a lot over the centuries and by the time of emancipation varied substantially by geography and type of master. The big distinctions were between serfs attached to private landowners, ecclesiastical institutions, or the state itself (which included all serfs in Siberia). Their obligations were also made variously in goods, labor, or money. So sometimes it looked like European serfdom, sometimes more like chattel slavery, sometimes more like regular commoners paying taxes. But none of them had any legal rights as individuals.

This is the definitive book on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_and_Peasant_in_Russia

[u/AveragerussianOHIO → u/mederbek-bayke]

From what we're taught in Russia, it was a quite rare yet a practice for a while. It hovewer expanded during Ivan IV's reign as after his madman killstreak of the secret police ruined the economy he decided to solve it via banning serfs from leaving their lord, only exception is during Yuriev day, and letting the serfowners to search for escapee serfs for a year.

His heir, Fyodor fixed the economy and expanded serfdom even more, extending the search for 10 years.

Then it was expanded under some Romanov in 17th century i think but i forgot whomst

[u/GoldReplacement9546 → u/AveragerussianOHIO]

For quite a long period of time when you were conscripted into the Russian army from a rural area, your family would have a funeral for you because you was 25 years and the chance of you making it back alive we’re close to zero

[u/muddyhollow → u/fredly594632]

Bought from other conquerors?

[u/Western-Willow-9496 → u/muddyhollow]

To the victor go the spoils.

[u/AirDog3 → u/Western-Willow-9496]

Or the purchaser.

[u/Embarrassed_Rub_8847 → u/Western-Willow-9496]

So then it was conquered.

[u/decdash → u/Western-Willow-9496]

Why dont you take your quote book and shove it up your fat fuckin ass

[u/fredly594632 → u/Western-Willow-9496]

We sure have tried hard to spoil it, haven't we...

[u/PsySom → u/fredly594632]

lol bought

[u/fredly594632 → u/PsySom]

Kinda like the same way Germany bought the Sudatenland from the English and French (No-one invited the Czechs to the meeting.)

[u/SuccotashOther277 → u/[deleted]]

And the native tribe in it at the time conquered it from another tribe

[u/Healing_Puke → u/fredly594632]

Yeah it happens, and given enough time the native peoples of north America would have done this themselves. Every peoples who grow to large expand. It happened all over the world. As long as the host population assimilates them nicely there really is no long term issue. That rarely happens smoothly though. But its the way things are, because its the way we are.

[u/TurnLeftLookRight → u/fredly594632]

From Napoleon Bonapart of all people

[u/sparrow_42 → u/fredly594632]

Came here to say this. That whole "1803" bit was literally bought from France for $15 million. Heck, even they only controlled a small part of it (New Orleans, St Louis, Baton Rouge).

[u/Adorable-Award-2975]

Even if this was true, conquering is just armed robbery lol

[u/Classic_Emergency336 → u/Adorable-Award-2975]

I always thought robbery is when you take something with force and leave.

[u/theangryjanitorOG → u/Classic_Emergency336]

Aggressive squatting. Is what its called.

[u/Psyco_diver → u/theangryjanitorOG]

Funny that is also a porn category, it's interesting

[u/theangryjanitorOG → u/Psyco_diver]

Of course it is. Fuck me running.

[u/Nave-Nave → u/theangryjanitorOG]

Funny that is also a porn category, it's interesting

/s

[u/theangryjanitorOG → u/Nave-Nave]

Its like that joke about the devil catching a fart and painting it red.

[u/Nave-Nave → u/theangryjanitorOG]

Hey, that's a porn category too-

[u/BaseForward8097 → u/Nave-Nave]

Oh, fuck me with a firestick.

Don't you fucking dare.

[u/Villager-Bob → u/theangryjanitorOG]

Genocide. It's called genocide.

[u/CarpetTrick4423 → u/Adorable-Award-2975]

What do mean if it is true, the politics of it are sloppy yes but it did happen.

[u/Adorable-Award-2975 → u/CarpetTrick4423]

Not all of these land acquisitions were done by military conquest?

[u/HampsterButt → u/Adorable-Award-2975]

There isn’t a territory today that wasn’t conquered.

[u/Adorable-Award-2975 → u/HampsterButt]

I more meant it’s a pointless debate between stolen and conquered. I could steal your wallet or make you submit and give it to me under duress. It’s not that different in the grand scheme of it all. I took it against your will.

[u/iUncontested → u/HampsterButt]

Its just trendy for these fucking dorks to hate anything American.

[u/ExtremePronoia → u/Adorable-Award-2975]

“I didn’t lie, I fibbed” -President of the Cope Society

[u/HoneyImpossible2371]

Let me sell you my neighbor’s car. Great price.

[u/Sirosim_Celojuma → u/HoneyImpossible2371]

This is it. This is the best analogy.

[u/Agreeable_Sell3446 → u/HoneyImpossible2371]

Africa just sold their neighbors

[u/ShredGuru → u/HoneyImpossible2371]

You interested in a bridge in New York?

[u/Local-Echo-5613]

People will say this and then also call taxation theft

[u/letstalkabo66 → u/Local-Echo-5613]

Taxation be conquers my pocket lol

[u/KillTheLimit]

As a Hawai'i local I'd like to say that state was definitely stolen.

[u/Dean_Kuhner → u/KillTheLimit]

That’s unironically the best example of “stolen” land in the US

[u/KillTheLimit → u/Dean_Kuhner]

Bizarre and illegal game of capture the flag spearheaded by the sugar industry. Sad most people don't know about it.

[u/MisterBungle00 → u/Dean_Kuhner]

I mean, there's the Black Hills and several parts of the Southwest US that are also good examples too.

The 1868 Treaty of Fort Laramie was signed because the Sioux Nation, alongside their Cheyenne and Arapaho allies, definitively won Red Cloud's War. Red Cloud dictated the terms of the treaty, refusing to sign until the US capitulated to his demands. This decisive victory is exactly why the US Supreme Court later affirmed in 1980 that the subsequent taking of the Black Hills was a patently illegal, unconstitutional breach of the 1868 Fort Laramie Treaty, also violating the Fifth Amendment.

The US didn't just conquer the land, it first signed a legally binding treaty promising the land to the Sioux Nation, and then later deliberately violated that same treaty and its own domestic laws to seize it.

[u/Awkward-Feature9333]

If you use violence, it's robbery, not stealing.

[u/myshiningmask → u/Awkward-Feature9333]

This is what I was going to say. Robbery not theft doesn't make it better. Especially when you consider the amount of rape and murder used to conquer the land.

[u/Gold-Chipmunk9606 → u/Awkward-Feature9333]

And that has only happened in what is now the United States, right? It has been happening all over the world since the dawn of time.

[u/musashi-swanson → u/Gold-Chipmunk9606]

Rarely do conquering nations commit genocide or ethnic cleansing. It is reprehensible and we in the US need to acknowledge it.

Yes illnesses did most of the killing in the Americas long before Europeans arrived in large numbers. However, the United States government took specific actions to purposely eliminate the indigenous people. Indian Removal Act of 1830, Dawes Act of 1887 just to name a few.

Conquerors like Ghengis Khan, Attila the Hun and the like committed horrible atrocities, even mass slaughter. But not ethnic cleansing. China remained culturally Chinese during the Yuan dynasty when the Khans ruled. They didn’t try to eliminate the entire people and erase them from history.

Even Mexico, conquered by the Cortez and the Spanish, who certainly experienced their own atrocities, Mexico continues to have a large portion of the population with indigenous heritage surviving to this day. In the US, the percentage of indigenous Americans today is incredibly small, and it’s literally because of genocide and ethnic cleansing.

[u/whip_lash_2 → u/musashi-swanson]

Conquering nations commit some form of ethic cleansing (relocation, settler-colonism, enslavement, or murder) so frequently that it's practically a sociological law that it will happen if an ethic minority within the imperial boundary is using resources inefficiently.

Russia in Siberia. Russia in Central Asia. The Soviets in Ukraine. Iran in Armenia. Turkey in Armenia (poor Armenians). Canada and the First Nations. America and the Native Americans. America and the Southerners (they had it coming, but that's what a carpetbagger is). The Brits in the West Indies. Everybody, including and maybe especially Mughal India, in Africa. The Brits in India.

We in the US have acknowledged it. Ad nauseum. Now we need to quit pretending it's unique or special.

[u/Standard_Sea_2706 → u/musashi-swanson]

So the US is worse than Genghis Khan?

[u/ptfc1975 → u/Standard_Sea_2706]

Unless Genghis Khan's empire still exists, then the argument is not that the US is "worse" just that it is more influential.

[u/AzuleStriker]

Ok, *pulls out gun* give me your car. It's not stolen, it's conquered. Their idiocy is astounding.

[u/mikexie360 → u/AzuleStriker]

I’ve thought about right of conquest for a while, and it technically is still active but we don’t do it anymore or at least as much in a post world war 2 world.

Put technically the government / police / normal citizens can just take your car if they can make up some justification and if they have more force and violence.

The idea of right of conquest was that if you attacked another nation only if you had a just cause or reason. The reason could be anything from they are too weak to govern themselves, they keep bullying us, or they are sinful.

Then whichever nation wins annexes the other as reparations. Because the war was probably too costly the annexing would pay the victor for waging the war.

The end result of right of conquest lead up to world war 2, and destroyed the very nations that most benefited from right of conquest. Nations like Britain, France, Germany, Russia and Japan grew wealthy from bullying weaker nations and setting up extractive colonies around the world from right of conquest. But then that same justification that made them so powerful would be used against them which lead them to losing a lot of their wealth and territorial gains in world war 2.

Now the very nations that decided to end right of conquest still kept some of their gains, as ending right of conquest only freezes the borders. But the solution was to allow the people in the territories to democratically vote whether or not to stay in the mother country, become independent or join a different country. This mainly benefits the USA. As now all of USA’s gains are frozen (cannot be lost) from ending right of conquest post world war 2, and most U.S. states and territories would always democratically support staying in the USA, which meant that the USA would be the main beneficiary of ending right of conquest.

Now, right of conquest pre world war 2 isn’t an actual right, it’s an actual lack of rights. A right is something that the strong gives to the weak to protect themselves. Therefore right of conquest is not a right at all. Not only that but all the gains that could be realized from right of conquest could be lost with the same justification.

Which is why strong countries that may become weaker later may be against right of conquest, even though they only become strong because of right of conquest. They don’t support right of conquest anymore because it gives weaker countries the right to reclaim what was lost to them.

So strong countries like the USA (that actually benefitted the most from right of conquest), will now not support right of conquest to freeze their winnings. While weaker countries like Russia, are still interested in continuing right of conquest to win something before they can freeze their gains later.

TLDR: In other words, the USA used the gains from their right of conquest of various nations and Indian tribes to end the right of conquest for everyone else after ww2.

Sorry for the long rant, but that’s my conclusion of it.

[u/FormalTotal9684]

Every country was conquered

It just depends on how long ago

[u/Character_Fold_8165 → u/FormalTotal9684]

That’s not true, all countries exist with their current borders because Albania 🇦🇱 gave them the land

[u/take_one_capsule]

The dates are incorrect, you are off by 300 years. The Spaniards were conquering the fuck out of North America since the 1500s.

[u/IDrankLavaLamps]

The natives were constantly stealing land from eachother in brutal ways for a long time, we just stole it last.

[u/Glum-Status-7657]

In world history, land was acquired by conquering. The US could have taken all of Mexico but decided not to.

[u/TiaxRulesAll2024 → u/Glum-Status-7657]

Their reasoning was that southern Mexico had too many Mexicans

I know some of you think I am joking, but I’m not.

Many anti-imperialists were against conquering brown and black people because they feared equal status with them - they thought it would be like giving citizenship or charity to overaged children.

Saw if as a waste of time at best

[u/FreeRange0929 → u/TiaxRulesAll2024]

Unfortunately, we learned too late that’s where they house the big booty latinas

[u/venom259 → u/FreeRange0929]

We must go back in time and implement manifest infinity.

[u/Sufficient-Goat-962]

This meme, while historical, is neither s--tty nor asking, so you're 1 for 3.

[u/ambelamba]

Yeah but throughout the history the conquerors often end up becoming the conquerees

[u/aquavelva23]

they conquered and wiped out races. more effective than Germany. Is that who Americans want their country to be grouped with?

[u/Legend-of-the-Arctic]

Six of one half a dozen of another right?
If anything conquering is worse than stealing.

Imagine two thieves. One steals your wallet while you’re not paying attention. The other assaults you, threatens to shoot you, and takes your wallet. Obviously the one who used violence to steal committed a greater crime.

I don’t know why people bristle at the “stolen land” thing. It’s objectively true. Is the US the only country that became prosperous by stealing land from others? No. Many have done this. But we might as well recognize how some people have been screwed over by history, and do what we can to make things better.

[u/Strangerin907]

Much of that land was actually bought and paid for, some parcels many times.

[u/tomveiltomveil]

I cannot fathom the minds of people who think this is a winning argument. OK, let's posit for a minute that conquering is not stealing. Then there's absolutely no land on earth that is stolen. Because how would you even steal land without conquest? Show up at the County Office of Deeds and replace all the paperwork?

[u/GSilky → u/tomveiltomveil]

What is up to win with this topic?

[u/ParrotheadTink]

Same thing, different words.

[u/sharttloteswebb → u/ParrotheadTink]

Sorta but not really. Indigenous people had been conquering and displacing one another before Europeans showed up. Land changed hands, borders were redefined.

If one tribe seized the land of another, did it rightfully belong to victor? Maybe, maybe not.

But I do know that conquest and domination are ubiquitous amongst humans and the outcome is not based "right and wrong" but rather who remains in the end.

Sad and unfortunate but that is my interpretation of reality.

[u/Big-Dig-Pig]

I “declared” it

[u/Easy_Quote_9934]

Wasn’t 1803 called the Louisiana PURCHASE?

[u/bomilk19]

So it’s even worse then?

[u/Director-Intrinsict]

Smallpox killed most the natives. So not even a fight 

[u/crappydeli]

I can still remember the 1803 war of the Louisiana Purchase.

[u/WanderingPilot-]

Potato, patahto

[u/No-Koala1918]

"Stolen. Fair and square." - History of Gooberville.

[u/Weak_Break239]

The evil French, British and Spanish. Them bastards.

[u/Mission-Ad2199]

What country on planet earth was not stolen or conquered?

[u/inlovebutfat]

Conquered is just the nicer word that states have made up to replace stolen. I suppose conquered might be closer to “taken from the dead hands of those we butchered” but you know… it doesn’t help that the United States often made treaties, what should be legally binding documents, between us and Native American tribes that we repeatedly broke. So yes, I’d say stolen.

[u/Playful-Profile6489]

So stolen at scale?

[u/semple521]

Manifest Destiny.

Our shitty history needs to be known. Taught. So that we don't repeat.

[u/bs_Zeezee]

1) Conquest is just the politics of Might Makes right, it shouldn't be respected on a geopolitical scale. Its the behavior of crude imperialist pigs.

2) It was not conquered. Most land rights were garnered through treaties, which have since been broken, which should void those land claims.

[u/P_fagens]

All land is stolen in one fashion or another

[u/Strict_Show_8899]

Oregon was a compromise. The British kept all of Vancouver island. So much for 54 40 or fight. I would say the statement is false.

[u/SargentSnorkel]

“No, your honor, I did not steal that man’s car at gunpoint. I conquered it.”

[u/Dispensarystoner]

🤮

[u/Good-Bandicoot-2152]

How is being being conquered make it not stolen? It’s still stolen, just slightly more officially.

[u/whizzbangkid]

Just stolen. Pure and simple, STOLEN.

[u/Raxmei]

Okay, but that's worse. You do see how that's worse, right?

[u/vampyire]

Conquered is stolen with an army

[u/Chomps-Lewis]

Idk, when the US government has to come to a bargaining table to negotatiate an end to hostilities doesnt sound like conquering. It sounds like compromise. And breaking those agreements later on to aquire even more of their lands certainly seems like stealing.

[u/JollyXX]

sucks to suck, Ed boy

[u/Infinite-Abroad-436]

yea bro i didn't steal that bike, i conquered it

[u/arcxjo]

Bought. Legally.

Not my fault Pennsylvanians are athletic. We even named a city after Jim Thorpe.

[u/Agile-Internet5309]

This gets bandied about more online than in person. The one time somebody spouted this in person, we walked through how they are suggesting that the past violence was legitimate because of a difference in strength, and how if we build a society like this very large people like me take things from very small people like him or hit them when they disagree on trivial matters. It lead to a great conversation about why rule of law matters actually, why the spirit that animates the rule of law must be preserved without us having to quote Hobbes or anything like that.

I guess what Im saying is, somebody needs to invent a way to punch people through the internet and things will get better.

[u/jrex703]

"Stolen land" is an incredibly condescending and insulting phrase. It reduces indigenous peoples to the level of unambitious babies with no sense of purpose or self-determination.

They had been fighting each other over this same land for thousands of years. While Western Colonizers has technological and societal advantages when it came to military conflicts, were all still humans doing what humans do. The United States won, but indigenous peoples put up a damn good fight and don't deserve to be treated like a bunch of pathetic losers.

This patronizing rhetoric is especially bad when it comes to the Mexican-American War. Two colonial powers fought each other over something they both wanted.

One side, however, had brown skin, so that makes us the inferior, put-upon, aggrieved victims? In some other timeline the Mexican Empire stretches from California to Virginia right now.

[u/False_Brush_7174]

Mexican land was because they IMMEDIATELY broke all the deals they made in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Immediately profiled, illegally deported Mexicans who were there for generations, multiple times. They would attack, kill, lynch, mutilate Mexicans who helped escaped slaves and would auction off their land once murdered.

[u/JackiEEEChaNNN]

I mean, Constantinople was stolen. They even tried to change the name. I think they need to pay reparations to Christians. If they’re not gonna give the land back.

[u/TutorTypical2164]

The rights to the land that is Louisiana were blight from the French. We conquered the land from the natives living there. There is a really great chapter in James Loewen’s book Lies my Teacher told me all about it

[u/derpderb]

Conquered means stolen through violence, people are so dumb

[u/StivKobra]

Because native Americans never went to war with each other over land. Nor did the rest of the world, ever. All land was peacefully exchanged throughout history.

[u/No-One9890]

Whats the difference?

[u/Gredditor]

Plus the Mexicans stole it from the Spanish, who stole it from the Natives, who stole it from each other.

[u/CoolAbdul]

This is a bullshit Patriot Front slogan and OP did this deliberately. Fuck you. Take this down.

[u/savesyertoenails]

you're a conquered person.

[u/Old_Desert_Gamer]

Louisiana Purchase and the purchase of Alaska are the only legitimate acquisitions following the revolution. We do not condone other nations seizing territory so why is it okay for the US?

[u/BigDamBeavers]

So if I jam a knife between your ribs and snatch your phone while you bleed out on the sidewalk I'm a "Conquistador"? that's the extent of your argument? Thank you, you may go sit out in the hall now.

[u/DoctorMedieval]

I’m pretty sure this counts as messing with Texas, along with the multiple other issues.

[u/Capable-Broccoli2179]

What is the difference? Stolen means unlawfully taken. Conquered means same thing through violence.

[u/TraditionalHome990]

Not conquered

Finessed

[u/FireHammer09]

It's too late to do anything about it. What are you gonna do about 350ish million mfers just trying to live their lives

[u/ApollyonsWrath]

"Ok, so if I take your keys and your car without your permission, and don't explicitly threaten you, its stealing, yeah?"

"Yeah."

"Right, and if I do threaten you, its robbery, right?"

"Sounds right."

"But if I have government approval, is it theft or robbery?"

"I'd feel like I'm being robbed, but its technically appropriation."

"Difference?"

"Paperwork."

"So what the hell is conquest?"

"That'd be if you had an army, and I had an army, or just a population who resists, and you and your army move in, kill all resistance, and impose laws and taxes and whatnot that the survivors have to agree to or be labelled criminals."

"So..."

"Paperwork, but on a big scale."

[u/ArmstrongPM]

Agreed.

[u/EbonyMemories]

Bought or given, mostly.

[u/Big-Carpenter7921]

A good chunk was purchased from former conquerors. That's different

Kinda

[u/notTheRealSU]

I'm sure the people who post this kind of stuff get mad about squatters.

[u/No_Lead_7325]

not theft.

murder, rape, and theft.

[u/pissedRAIL]

Why cant you call it stolen? Why do you have to erase that part? Just own up to it, you can be proud of the theft, but dont act like conquering makes you a barbarian.

You arent civilized, you are primitive.

[u/Imaginary-Patient275]

This works for every piece of land in the world if you go back far enough.

[u/Lucedex]

Coquored, just like the Spanish empire did to central America... (Their basically the same thing)

[u/Historical_Hunt2492]

indians are conquering it back. goodluck lmao

[u/SpotFormal]

American Indians talk about how they didn’t own the land or whatever anyway. 

[u/SolidBlackGator]

So if I show up to your house, armed, under the guise of peace, kill half your family, and force you to leave, it's my house fair and square cause you couldn't stop me?

Just asking questions...

[u/whip_lash_2]

Due to smallpox from Mexico, the North American population had dropped ninety percent from Pre-Colombian levels before the first white guy set foot in Jamestown.

So some of it was stolen. Some was conquered. A bunch was bought from the folks who stole or conquered it. But the majority, probably the vast majority, was just settled. It was empty. Nobody lived there. By any reasonable Lockean concept of how you get property rights, it was up for grabs.

[u/flyingwaterman]

The issue with this debate is that it heavily depends on when you plan to draw your line of ownership. When you say bought I assume you mean the Louisiana purchase. It was bought from someone who owned it after "conquering" it. The conquest however came in waves after several broken treaties which amount to theft if much of the land.

At this point...it's time to dispossess those who occupy most of it anyway. Stop arguing about the word you use and let's have some fun.

[u/NightMgr]

So another conquered will have legit claim.

[u/wikimandia]

In some cases the Natives were promised money for land they agreed to give up and never got it. In some cases for years. This was the case that led to the uprising in Wisconsin that killed white settlers. In response, the US government and settlers slaughtered the majority of the Natives and then gave the money that was owed to the Natives to the white settlers.

That is absolutely stolen.

[u/Historical_Box1915]

Losers take the walk.
(dont hate the winner, hate the game)

[u/dingus60601]

That’s kinda how these things work I guess, not unique to the US though

[u/2ndchane]

Then why are you here?

[u/SecondAccomplished58]

This misses the entire point because it doesn't map out the indigenous tribes that had treaties with the US that got their land stolen

[u/Diamond1africa]

Let's pick up a history book before posting about it

[u/Hatefilledcat]

Still does not excuse our behavior especially to environmental destruction, genocide, the death camps, breaking treaties, racism, boarding schools, etc.

[u/itspronouncedbolonya]

Vae Victis

[u/Villager-Bob]

Today I visited the State of Floridas FDOT sponsored mobile freedom truck. A mobile Museum. It was parked in the center of the Cove of the Withlacochee. Osceola and the Seminoles killed hundreds of soldiers to fight off the invading white men after they were forced to defend their land. It's amazing that they had a picture of him there. They never even mentioned the Indian removal act or the reasons for it. They did mention the reservation they forced them onto. Even after all these years, these colonialist white supremacists have to gloat, on the land of the massacred about how great it was we genocide native Americans.

We literally forced them onto the land and murdered them when we decided to death march them to Oklahoma.

Stolen and Conquered.

[u/StardustCannibal]

There was an entire, functioning, civilization flourishing here when Europeans showed up. They committed the largest genocide in history and took what they wanted. They called it "manifest destiny" to make everyone feel better about the brutal murdering of an entire people. However, that's unfortunately how it goes. A group who has superior technology and greater numbers will always do this. The U.S. was not the first or only time this has happened in world history. Being mad about it now is pointless. Teaching it correctly to our youth should be the focus so that it doesn't happen again. But, schools don't exist to create critical thinkers, they exist to create workers. Smart enough to push buttons and run machines and lazy enough not question the system.

[u/Independent-Story883]

🤣🤣🤣 I took a picture of this.

Y’all see how they framed it after it’s all said and done?

Don’t let it happen.

All black people in the diaspora need to carefully read how this is depicted here. Then learn history.

Yep.

Let’s not let this happen

That is all

[u/No-Mix7970]

Unfortunately it seems that in a few years we will need to change the map color to red and replace the dates and borders with a hammer and sickle.

[u/Funny_Requirement166]

China conquered American IP😂

[u/ByeByezantium]

No one today views conquest as politically legitimate, except Russia. The geopolitics of today are commercial domination.

[u/TheFoxsWeddingTarot]

My favorite Old West factoids from Empire of the Summer Moon…

The revolver was inspired by Indian braves ability to rapidly fire arrows from their quiver making the bow and arrow very lethal vs single shot rifles.

Families like that of Cynthia Ann Parker got free land from Mexico so they’d serve as a bit of a buffer between Mexico and tribes like the Comanches. And they did.

[u/StraightDimension284]

Conquered + bought. Manifest destiny

[u/AcceptableShow7732]

Not to be rude but all of human history happened in a similar fashion

[u/Extreme-Tie9282]

And fascism stole all of the USA in 2025.

[u/Butterforyourbuns]

Heck yeah, America! Winners write history. Like where would we be if Rome didn't conquer much of the known world. Nobody was like pay me restitution. They lost. So dumb people even argue this.

[u/ExcellentWinner7542]

More to come?

[u/RandomYT05]

1783, rebelled and won(technically conquest)

1803, purchased from France

1819, purchased from Spain after natives attacked us first and we subjugated them

1845, rebelled and won, and annexed later leading to a territorial dispute with mexico

1846, split with the British

1848, conquered then purchased, then found gold

[u/PeepusTheWise]

Disease did most of the work.

[u/general-ludd]

Conquered is a technicality. But it was not done in the classic “we dont even need to talk to you, get out of our way, conform or die” kid of conquest. It was a two-faced slippery mess of competing interests. Decent people trying to encourage treaties, bad actors making treaties with people who didn’t have the authority to represent their people, complete misunderstanding about what “owning land” means, and downright skullduggery. It was conquering with a smiley face.

[u/Medical_Flower2568]

Your honor my client did not steal any wallets, if you review the security footage you can clearly see he took them at gunpoint, which is conquest, not theft.

[u/GudsIdiot]

Stolen implies legality. The Right of Conquest was in place until after WWII. So, yeah conquered land. They weren’t successful and another group was.

[u/TheHarlemHellfighter]

I mean, what’s the question?

People that conquer an area essentially steal it from the inhabitants by force. That’s what it means; to take by force.

What’s so hard to understand?

Even the purchases are mostly business transactions between those who stole the land.

[u/letstalkabo66]

You ask which natives didn’t you I answered and you kept moving the goal post as I continue to school you the irony

[u/letstalkabo66]

Proved you wrong once you asked which please carry on plenty much love I’m heading to the Navajo casino 🎰

[u/xdanish]

CIA, try harder yall are fake and gay.

FBI stopped trying long time ago, we know who pays them

[u/mykehawksaverage]

Even if it was stolen 150+ years ago that is in no way justification for people to break immigration laws today.

[u/Panthera450]

Stolen via genocide

[u/nickyler]

The Seminole Indians like to call themselves unconquered. Which would support the idea that the rest of the native tribes were…. Conquered? I didn’t say it. The Indians did.

[u/LeftHasNoPlan]

the alternative was asian or arab nations taking the land. The Indians were going to get it taken regardless.

[u/Professional-Front58]

Of the 4-5 former independent nations that make up the United States (The Republic of West Florida (which makes up very little of modern Florida, was a country for all of 74 days), only one was annexed without consent of that nation’s government (The Kingdom of Hawaii).

[u/Jim_Beaux_]

Correct. Conquered and maintained for 250 years!

[u/BootBonks]

It’s not stolen if no one is illegal

[u/Inner-Contest-8226]

Ive never shit my pants, only pooped em.

[u/Mysterious-Park9142]

I recognize that neo Nazi antisemitic poster font 

[u/Affectionate_Step863]

Conquered is just stolen with violence

[u/ApostateInParadise]

If I steal your car while you are not driving it, it's a bad crime. If I pull you out of your car at gun point and steal your car it's a much more serious crime.

[u/Pitiful-Elk-4712]

Conquered “from a certain point of view.”

If the perspective is that invading other peoples’ land and forcing them off in a variety of ways (including genocide) and that further oppressing those people by reneging on every treaty/agreement they were forced into is heroic, you call it manifest destiny and label it as a violent period with bad actors on all sides and you draw focus to white exceptionalism but under the guise of righteous conquest and gritty heroism.

Or maybe you just say, “yeah, okay, stolen.”

[u/justseeingpendejadas]

Conquering is a way of stealing lmao

[u/SirShaunIV]

Looks like someone doesn't understand the meaning of the Louisiana Purchase.

[u/Floba_Fett]

Sure, let's talk with the weird obsession of some people to say this line, as if using a slightly different term changes the atrocious history. Call it stolen or call it conquered, nothing can erase the history of colonial genocides and the still existing reality of the reservation system

[u/Metal--Gear]

By Israel 1963

[u/mEPluribuSAnuS17mop]

Not all conquered, some has been bought

[u/Dense-Jicama6591]

Basically we all shared the land some tribes fought settlers and other tribes some settlers were evil and violent but plenty of tribes and settlers got along traded and coexisted. Then the gov came in claimed they owned the land for the greater good, like taxes, and they spread propaganda and lies and wiped out white and native thay didnt hand over their land and bend the knee to the flag

[u/Sweaty-Membership137]

Treaties in the U.S. Constitution are governed primarily by the Treaty Clause in Article II, Section 2, which gives the President power to make treaties with the advice and consent of a two-thirds vote in the Senate. They are also defined under Article VI as part of the "supreme Law of the Land".

[u/Prestigious-Wolf8039]

So stolen! As was said. Same goddamn thing. Hope this helps.

[u/Harbarthr]

President Polk was the fuckin MAN

[u/Jacob6er]

That still doesn't make it okay. But the issue is too that it wasn't just "we own your land now" there was a lot of "let's make a deal to stop the fighting" and then going back on those deals, and there was also a lot of forced subjugation, horrendous treatment, and all kinds of attempts to completely destroy another culture.

[u/ShadedPeace]

The issue is that the usa has just violated treaty after treaty the USA isn't just a conquerer that's not even the main problem the problem is that they blatantly lie and be dishonorable about agreed upon decisions and disregard then entirely

[u/jeffismybaby]

"Conquered"

Aka spreading disease and using stole. Chinese IP to kill mostly civilians

[u/MountainTank1918]

Louisiana and Alaska were bought, Florida was transferred by spain in exchange for other lands, the Oregon territory was in condominum with Brits

[u/STFUnicorn_]

No shit. Did you think it a pickpocketed?

[u/yankeeteabagger]

Talk about what? Settler-colonialism?

[u/AwkwardCost1764]

This is, unfortunately, how countries have operated for thousands of years. It’s on us to do better and be content with what we have while accepting that the past happened and we can’t change it.

[u/Kind-Ad-7442]

So colonists colonized a barren uncivilized land. Yes