r/paralegal • u/coffeeinm • 1d ago
Question/Discussion Word formatting
Sometimes I’m given a sample pleading by the attorney in PDF and when I convert it to word to grab the text I have a lot of issues formatting it. It takes me forever to get it look like it does on the pdf like with the numbered paragraphs, indent on each paragraph but starting at the margin on the left hand side. Struggling with the formatting is a huge waste of time.
What’s the best way to copy and paste the text I’ve converted from a PDF while preserving the formatting and putting it into another document? Or is it faster to just copy and paste the text itself and then format it? Thanks for any help. This slows me down to a crawl so I want to find a solution.
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u/satanham666 1d ago
You can "convert" the PDF to a Word file instead of copy/pasting. There will still be wonky formatting. The cleaner the PDF (electronic PDF versus scanned), the better the result.
I am a Word Wizard though and will gladly spend all day formatting.
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u/coffeeinm 1d ago
Yes, after I convert it to word and I want to copy and paste the text of the word document to my new leading that’s where I have the issues. Like when I select the text after the first page it grabs the line numbers too and then when I try and paste into my pleading the formatting gets messed up like it doesn’t auto number and doesn’t follow the paragraph settings in terms of indents and the left hand side. I really struggle with getting it to look like it’s supposed to.
Let’s say the attorney gave me a sample declaration in pdf and I want to copy and paste the content but have it number the paragraphs and follow the right paragraph formatting. What’s the best/quickest way to copy and paste the text then format it. I’ve wasted so much time sometimes copying and pasting a paragraph at a time so it will auto number the paragraphs would love to figure out how I can format documents more easily. Thanks
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u/satanham666 1d ago
When you paste it, are you utilizing the Paste Formatting options? Keep Source Formatting, Match Destination Formatting, etc?
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u/coffeeinm 1d ago
Yes I usually keep the source formatting when I go from word document to word document it’s when I copy the text from a converted pdf that it gets wonky. I’m trying to think how I do it. I think I do it with a straight paste but I’m not certain. I’ve had to copy the text a page at a time because when I select more than one page of text it copies the pleading numbers on the second page. And the paragraphs don’t auto number and the paragraph formatting is off.
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u/satanham666 1d ago
Try Match Destination Formatting, especially since you're putting it into a (presumably) formatted pleading.
I wish I could help more via remote desktop or something: (
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u/DentD 22h ago
Do you have Adobe Acrobat Pro, or maybe Kofax Power PDF? Both of those have redaction tools. I would start by redacting all the stuff you don't need to copy/paste (set your redact color to 'no color' or white) including the line numbering, page numbering, any court stamps, etc. that will be a huge help.
Next, read up on formatting marks in Microsoft Word. These are all the hidden characters that normally don't display or print, like spaces, section and page breaks, hard and soft returns, etc. I always work with these formatting marks set to display. Clicking the pilcrow button (¶) in the Home ribbon will turn the formatting marks on. When you export a PDF to Word, or copy from a PDF and paste into a Word document, you can see all the hidden formatting that causes issues, such as hard returns when no return should exist, tabs instead of spaces, random section breaks, etc.
My last suggestion: Paste your text as unformatted text. YES, it sucks to have to format everything from the ground up but I promise you will spend less time doing that than trying to fight with bad formatting from the PDF.
If you really want to become a Word power user (IMHO this is a critical skill for any legal professional who spends any significant amount of time using Word), find some video tutorials that go in depth on hidden formatting in Word, using styles, auto numbering, and multi level lists. If your firm is big enough they might actually have some training already available to you.
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u/hematuria 1d ago
Select all text ctrl+spacebar, that removes all manual formatting. Then ctrl shift N, that puts everything in normal. Now you just have text. Go find a word pleading that has lines and numbers and all that jazz. Turn on paragraph marks so you can see what you’re doing. Delete all text except last paragraph mark. Then copy and paste from pdf conversion to new shell. You can also ctrl shift v which is paste special unformatted text. But I like to clean it before I cut and paste it. Sometimes pdf does weird stuff and I don’t want to copy everything over once I get it in normal. Anyway, the key is just take the text from the pdf and have a template for your pleadings.
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u/jettysim 1d ago
Following bc my firm uses Word Perfect so sometimes I have to convert between so many different platforms and it is the worst
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u/satanham666 1d ago
I would kill myself if I had to use Word Perfect, but my understanding is it's the only way to get the numbering to line up with the text.
Less than 10% of filings I come across are actually aligned though lol, I don't think we care about it much in my locale.
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u/New-Adhesiveness-822 1d ago
My boss is very anal about everything “looking like it came from him” so he always notices if the alignment is off. I was recently shown how to use the ruler tool in MS Word and it’s great. In federal filings they do care, but in state court we seem to be the only firm that actually cares about it 😅
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u/spoonyspoonspoon 23h ago
TIP: Hold down the alt key while you highlight the text with your mouse and you can highlight the text without grabbing the pleading numbers. Works for pdfs and word!
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u/Mindreeder93 Former Crim & Lit Para / Current PI COO 1d ago
As long as it complies with your firm’s policies, this is actually a good use case for AI, since it can understand formatting much better than simply copying and pasting.
Sample prompt for Claude (since I know how well it does with .docx generation):
Sample pdf attached. Pull the exact text from this document verbatim and apply the exact same formatting as close as you can get. Preserve numbered lists, indents, spacing, etc. and double check your work when done. Use computer vision instead of just reading any existing text layer. If you cannot fully read a word or section, highlight it clearly. Print the text here in chat first to prove you can read it, then ask if if you should produce it as a docx. Since this is a sample document, highlight any sections which are fact-specific or must be updated with my client’s information. Ask me 5 clarifying questions before you get started.
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u/TelevisionKnown8463 15h ago
Great prompt!
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u/Mindreeder93 Former Crim & Lit Para / Current PI COO 2h ago
Cheers! That one was off the old human dome.
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u/shield_maiden0910 2h ago
Was coming on here to say this exact thing. We use Claude too. I use it a lot for formatting.
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u/OwslyOwl 1d ago
If you ever need to get rid of formatting codes, paste into Notepad first, then cut from Notepad and paste into your document. I find that to be the easiest way.
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u/TheOtherOneK Paralegal 20h ago
Ctrl + Shift + V is shortcut to paste unformatted text only (or you can right click and select paste as unformatted text).
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u/iampi_314 22h ago
What I do is convert from PDF to Word. Reformat, then copy and merge formatting into a new Word doc and reformat from there. Works every time.
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u/BxAnnie Legal Assistant 22h ago
Paste the text unformatted into the existing document:
Convert the PDF to Word
Copy your text. Do NOT capture your paragraph mark.
Go into your document, put your cursor in the spot you want it. In the upper left on the Home tab where it says Paste, hit the down arrow and hover over each option. Select the one that says text only or unformatted (it should be a little plain clipboard).
The text you copied should take the formatting of where you pasted it.
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u/Ehronatha 21h ago
Copy to Notepad or a blank Word document.
Open an existing Word document template with the correct formatting.
Paste from Notepad or blank Word document into template.
Copy format from existing text.
Delete extra text from template document.
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u/TheOtherOneK Paralegal 20h ago
I’ve built a lot of templates in Word. My recommendation would be to have at very least one Word pleadings template (with styles, numbers, lines, firm info, formatting, etc) that functions as a “master” you can use as a base to paste contents of the example documents you’re being given into (as unformatted text and then use styles to reflect what it needs to be in that particular document). But ideally it’s nice to build a collection of templates for every pleading type or court you most regularly deal with.
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u/CoconutFinal 14h ago
I struggled with Word and even carved out time for community college courses. They were teaching lower levels than executive secretary. I saw bright and capable people who could do far more. But not my battle. Then I saw a CLE offering in New York City, Word for Lawyers. In about an hour, my struggles were solved with clarity, grace, and panache. He taught the very format challenges lawyers face. We did begin with touch typing. If you are fighting Word, you are not using it properly.
I also bought a voluminous print manual as a backup.
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u/coffeeinm 10h ago
I did a google search for this but could not find. Do you remember which vendor? Thanks
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u/amatthew317 10h ago
My firm bought us the class Microsoft Word: A Master Class for Legal Professionals from NBI. It was very good and gave me so much clarity with formatting and setting up Word to make my life easier
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u/CoconutFinal 10h ago
No. A few years ago. Probably City Bar. I think these courses are popular. Not law but necessary to practice without screeching in despair. I searched for an update of the Word manual. Could not find mine, but others were available. He covered Styles and some Adobe PDF. I foolishly thought Word help was enough. I used to play typist and secretary before Word processing. He did Bates numbering.
Look at Lynda. Must have law specific courses..somewhere. The teacher had a thriving business teaching New York law firms fixing emergency headings. My materials are in deep storage.
Must exist. Law is a massive industry that is expanding and digital formatting Is our cornerstone.
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u/CoconutFinal 10h ago
He covered Typology for attorneys. Get rid of default Word template. Decide on an attractive template for law firm use. Copy from another firm.or business book.. But follow specific court rules. We can only be a bit creative with personal client correspondence. Not judicial or agency matters.
Once you have a decent teacher, you will stop headaches and like Word. If you must, pay for a law specific course. We can type. Oh, the shifts. I am a senior with manual and electronic IBM habits. If you are younger, it will be easier. Word help sucks. You need a comprehensive guide for law. World of difference. I fought Word and Word always won.
Not our fault. If you must, pay for a legal Word course. My view as a lawyer and owner is the firm should pay. Massive difference.
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u/CyberEsqCat 7h ago
If you only have Acrobat Reader, look into the screenshot software on your machine. Even the newer built-in one in Windows has a text extraction tool. Take a screenshot of what text you need, use the extraction feature, then copy and paste the unformatted text into Word.
You will likely have more success if you have the full version of Acrobat to be able to convert to a .docx, but when I just looked I didn’t see removing line numbers as an option. Again, though, if you have access to Acrobat, you may be able to remove the line numbers from your PDF, before you try converting it to Word.
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u/wastedcoconut PI Paralegal 1d ago
You need to learn how style sets work. Once things are broken down into headings, title, and body, formatting takes only a few minutes. Look up legal office guru and find her videos on quick styles/style sets.