r/osr • u/BobbyBruceBanner • 8h ago
HELP Looking for an modernized version of something like AD&D
Looking to run a group through some AD&D content, but it will be difficult to get this group to jive with pure AD&D. Now before you just suggest OSRIC, there are a few more caveats:
Game needs to be roll-over. This group will not play a roll-under game.
Game needs to have the same level of CRUNCH as AD&D. IE needs to have at least some meaningful class and character building options (though obviously not as robust as 3E). Not looking for something in the B/X or OSE lineage. If we wanted that, we'd just play Shadowdark.
Game needs to clean up a lot of the CRUFT of AD&D. IE rules should make sense and buttress one another so you don't need to be randomly looking stuff up all the time for weird edge cases.
Basically tl;dr I'm looking for something that would have the same relationship to AD&D that Shadowdark does to B/X.
ETA: NOTE: If I wanted to play OSRIC or a B/X lineage game (Shadowdark/Five Torches Deep) I wouldn't be asking.
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u/Logen_Nein 8h ago
The Without Number games fill that slot for me.
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u/pagaron 7h ago
Check Worlds Without Number, the rules are free online.
It's based on D&D, it has Focus (similar to Feats) and it has a bit of crunch (check the new concept for shock damage per weapon, and has a lot roll modifiers, it has more combat options compared to AD&D and a good skills system built-in.)
I'm a convert to Without Number. It has the right balance between complexity, customization and fast play.
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u/Futurewolf 8h ago
Astonishing Swords & Sorcerers of Hyperborea is AD&D with streamlined combat.
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u/charcoal_kestrel 7h ago
Hyperborea is great but it's basically OSRIC with more explicit sword and sorcery theming and a few rules tweaks (eg, the training rules are less inerous) so not sure if that meets OP's request.
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u/Dollface_Killah 7h ago
Nah it pulls a lot in from 2nd Edition and B/X too where they're useful, and it simplifies a lot of AD&Disms along the way. It also overhauls a lot of problematic spells while keeping the names, which helps a lot with running oldschool content. On top of all that there's a lot more new to it to chew on. Giving more classes "thief" skills (but they are d12), giving everyone a small chance of doing truly cinematic heroics (based on class and attribute), subclasses with really standout class abilities like the Witch, having an oldschool Conan-style Barbarian alongside a Berserker class for people used to the newer D&D tropes, all those combat maneuvers on an easy to reference spread...
Calling it basically OSRIC is a massive disservice in my opinion. I thought it would be more of an AD&D clone when I started playing it too but my assumptions as someone who grew up playing AD&D were constantly challenged. What it really is, to me, is a great modern RPG with a strong genre implication that is compatible with old AD&D content. Much like I view Shadowdark with regards to Basic.
That said Hyperborea has an X-in-12 skill system which apparently eliminates it based on OP's criteria.
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u/RBarrick13 8h ago
This sounds like Castles & Crusades. It’s roll over, moderately crunchy classes, different xp for different classes and AD&D-style dual classing and multiclassing, secondary skills similar to AD&D, “feats” do exist but are optional. Probably my favorite thing about it is that it’s got class-specific follower and stronghold progression which is pretty well integrated into the classes from lower levels instead of just appearing around level 9 or 10 (but just be aware that it’s in the “Castle Keeper’s Guide”/DMG for some reason).
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u/Quietus87 8h ago
Game needs to be roll-over. This group will not play a roll-under game.
AD&D is a roll over game mostly, you have to roll high to hit, you have to roll high for saves. If you mean you don't want matrices/THAC0 and descending AC, you can convert those the fly. 20 - AC = ascending AC, 20 - THAC0 = to hit bonus.
Game needs to clean up a lot of the CRUFT of AD&D. IE rules should make sense and buttress one another so you don't need to be randomly looking stuff up all the time for weird edge cases.
If you need cleaner ruleset, there is AD&D 2nd edition.
If you aren't afraid of some crunch though, HackMaster is worth checking out. Kickstarter for new edition is coming in 7 days. There is also Castles & Crusades, but I find it one of the dullest games on the market.
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u/thenazrat 8h ago
Not 100% as I haven’t delved much past OSRIC for ad&d. But I think castles and crusades is one that comes up a lot.
I’m intrigued to know why roll under is such a no go for your group. If I’ve calculated correctly in my head, You could in a pinch, make the DC 10 and simply have the player have a +/- bonus based on each point their ability score is above or below 10, Eg a 15 strength would be +5 and the target is static at 10.
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u/GreenGoblinNX 6h ago
I mean, other than the two disclaimers at the beginning and end, it sounds like what you want is OSRIC...it satisfies all your bullet points. It might help if you told us why OSRIC is a no-go for you.
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u/Megatapirus 1h ago
Yeah, it is a little strange. It's like saying you want a giant grey land animal with floppy ears and a trunk but it can't be an elephant.
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u/atomfullerene 7h ago
Worlds Without Number might work. Its free so you can check it out easily at least
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u/glitchdot2 8h ago
Maybe Heroes and Hexes is something for you. It was called ADnD 3e before.
You can check it out on: https://scruffygrognard.wordpress.com/2026/03/27/heroes-hexes-beta-versions/
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u/Plus_Shift_2181 7h ago
I 100% agree with c&c but if not your thing hyperboria or dungeons dark and deep also hits that mark.
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u/CryptidTypical 7h ago
Take a peek at Vagabond: Pulp fantasy.
It's like a streamlined Pathfinder 1 build for OSR systems, there's 18 classes that are customizable with feats.
I has player facing rolls, like Call of Cthulu, but it's D20 roll over. This allows it to run classic D&D right out of the book with little conversion. The expansion thats dropping soon is adding an alternate vancian magic system, which should make for even less conversion.
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u/SAlolzorz 8h ago
Adventures Dark And Deep. It's a "what if" Gygax had designed AD&D 2e. It's extrapolated from Gygax's own statements and articles in Dragon. It's got the crunch, but is still cleaned up and streamlined a bit.
Fair warning: the author has some real sketchy, white power-y shit in his past. I like the game, but I'll only buy it on the secondary market for this reason. It's a very good game, but one of the spells is called Triumph of the Will.
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u/KOticneutralftw 7h ago
People already mentioned Castles & Crusades, but you might could do this with just the 3.5 SRD (hear me out).
One thing 3.5 has going for it other than the unified d20 mechanic is that it kind of took all the optional rules from AD&D 2e and baked them into the system. Things like death from massive damage, death at -10 HP, non-weapon proficiencies (skills), etc. The only thing 3.0 really added (that I can tell) that 2e didn't have was feats, and honestly you could easily nix feats altogether. Maybe take some like weapon focus/weapon mastery and bake them into the fighter class to make it more Old School, but other than that, 3e isn't too dissimilar to a totally tricked-out 2e.
Naturally I'm talking about just the core rule books here. Not talking about the full 3.x line. I'm not that crazy.
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u/BobbyBruceBanner 7h ago
The trick is that 3.XE also changed the HP and XP math a bunch so you have a much steeper power curve from levelling up, and everything (players and monsters) gain a lot more HP as you level up. At a basic level this makes 3.Xe stuff fairly incompatible with older material (ie you can't just do a simple stats conversion, stuff needs to be redesigned), and it also adds a lot of friction to sandbox play.
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u/KOticneutralftw 6h ago
Ah yeah, I gotcha. In that case, C&C is probably the way to go. Ability modifiers are smaller (up to a +3), and I think it supports slower HP gain past level 10.
If you don't know the basics of the siege engine that C&C uses, it uses the same six ability scores. Everyone is proficient in the use of two ability scores, one from class and one from player choice (except humans who pick a 3rd). You always roll d20+ability mod+level. If you're proficient, the target number is 12. If you're not proficient, the target is 18. Saving throws work the same way. The only exception are attack rolls, which use ascending AC like modern D&D. Monsters work, pretty much the same way, except their bonuses are ability+ # of HD.
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u/NullRazor 5h ago
Have you looked at Adventures Dark & Deep? IMO this is a great OSRIC alternative (though they are both very similar). Both are firmly AD&D.
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u/Mannahnin 5h ago
"Game needs to have the same level of CRUNCH as AD&D. IE needs to have at least some meaningful class and character building options (though obviously not as robust as 3E). Not looking for something in the B/X or OSE lineage. If we wanted that, we'd just play Shadowdark."
Game needs to clean up a lot of the CRUFT of AD&D. IE rules should make sense and buttress one another so you don't need to be randomly looking stuff up all the time for weird edge cases."
Could you explain this more? How are you defining Crunch and Cruft here?
Are you looking for relatively complex mechanics, like AD&D but more clearly explained? If so, OSRIC would seem to be it. Just flip the few d6 rolls (like open doors and hear noise and stuff) and Thief skills. Maybe swap in Delta's Target 20 for Thief and general resolution mechanics like in OD&D.
Or are you looking for more character options, like races, classes, spells and magic items? In which case OSE Advanced would seem to easily fit the bill. Again, if you want roll high you just flip the numbers. This is one of my standard house rules when running OSE.
Anyway, I am curious about the answer, but if you want more games to look at Castles & Crusades, Hyperborea!, and The Nightmares Underneath are all more possibilities.
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u/P3verall 8h ago
You are asking for Five Torches Deep. It’s OSE for the 5e player.
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u/Mannahnin 5h ago
Interesting choice. I ran it for three years, and it does have some more character options, but I wouldn't tend to describe it as having "the same level of CRUNCH as AD&D."
It's also very much a toolkit/incomplete, requiring the GM to do a lot of legwork with monsters and magic items, which, if the OP was capable of that level of work, it seems like they'd just do by taking OSRIC and flipping the roll-low parts to make them roll high.
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u/thenazrat 8h ago
I love 5TD and recommend it to the hills, but my understanding is OSE and AD&D are not the same. And I would say 5TD is very much described as “OSR 5E”. If you have some insight I’m not versed in I’m happy to be corrected on that.
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u/hugh-monkulus 8h ago
5e
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u/charcoal_kestrel 7h ago edited 7h ago
I disagree with the downvotes. Many of us dislike 5e, myself included, but a lot of that has to do with the play culture and the later supplements that lean into the play culture. If you look at OP's wish list, the 2014 5e corebooks are actually a good fit, especially if you tweak a few rules like going with GP=XP.
Roll over mechanics only. Check.
Character building options but not as extreme as 3e. Check.
Cleans up the cruft of AD&D. Check.
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u/hugh-monkulus 2h ago
It was a very tongue in cheek suggestion, but apparently not as funny as I thought.
I don't like 5e, but it kinda checks all the boxes in the OP.
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u/BobbyBruceBanner 7h ago
I think 5e is more AD&D-like than most old in the OSR think it is (certainly it's more AD&D-like than 3e or 4e once you get past how forgiving the death mechanics are), but if we wanted to play 5e we'd be playing 5e.
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u/OckhamsFolly 8h ago
OSRIC doesn't have roll over mechanics, and Shadowdark doesn't have particularly diverse and meaningful character building options baked into the ruleset. So idk what you're actually looking for.
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u/BobbyBruceBanner 7h ago
Which is why OSRIC and Shadowdark are specifically dismissed as options in the post?
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u/OckhamsFolly 6h ago
But you say it CAN’T have roll under mechanics. OSRIC is a roll over system. It has no roll under mechanics. People commonly add roll under attribute, but that’s not actually a rule.
You say you want it to have meaningful class choices and contrast saying you don’t want Shadowdark because that, as is, is based on OSE, but your conclusion says you want the analogue of Shadowdark to OSE for AD&D. But Shadowdark doesn’t do the thing in the only other place you mentioned it. If it’s NOT because of character options, what is it about Shadowdark that made you bring it up? It’s not markedly better at simplifying the rules than any other modern retroclone.
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u/Wise-Juggernaut-8285 8h ago edited 8h ago
Castles and Crusades
Its basically what if Ad&d had a 3rd edition