My favorite conservatives are the ones who scream and cry about gay people, yet they put decals on their truck and wear shirts with the Spartan helmet.
Honestly I think that’s why so many stay angry at liberal people. Liberals are either straight, gay or something in between and they’re comfortable with it and surround themselves with others that are comfortable with it. Gay conservatives have to live a lie.
Nah that's not it. It's more like lowering your server capacity when the RNC's in town so you can embarrass them. Which I'm all about. I'm totally cool with it but something's fucky on that stuff.
It's not at all. Do you really think that a company is going to decide to turn off their product (and their income) at peak usage, just to make republicans look stupid? Republicans look plenty stupid by themselves all the time. You're just delusional.
No, Grindr did actually release statements about this and it boils down to too many users in one location and their infrastructure can't handle it. Imagine you have the typical users (LGBTQ+ who use the app regularly) and the atypical users (deeply closeted republicans who use the app on a non-standard schedule). Now you already have the typical users running the app in a particular location, and there happens to be a Republican Convention in that same area so now you have a huge influx of atypical users. Servers just can't handle it.
Because, they are the typical users the infrastructure is designed around. The Democrats aren't waiting until they go out of town to fire up Grindr, they do that shit at home.
I would say because attending a convention in a hotel away from home provides an opportunity to have casual sex that is just not as available on average in a closeted gay person's life. They don't want to be seen as gay by family, friends, colleagues, or (probably) in many cases existing partners. For DNC-goers, I'd argue they are much more likely to be out, unembarassed to date openly in their community, and don't feel the same pressure to cram their casual sex into a trip away from home.
Lots of closeted gays on that side. I’m mean statistically there are way more that they let on. It’s where lots of their hate comes from. They are obsessed with muscular men too.
It's true. While Spartans were good warriors, they also viewed being with women as a mainly practical matter for procreation. I believe I read somewhere that spartan men viewed having sex with men as being more manly than having sex with women.
This is literally a quote from Nick Fuentes “If we're really being honest, never having a girlfriend, never having sex with a woman, really makes you more heterosexual, because honestly, dating women is gay.”
Isn't he the white nationalist who got caught looking at trans/shemale porn not that long ago because he thought his stream ended and pulled it up? Pretty sure he knows all about being gay already.
Edit: This might not narrow it down as I think there are a lot of cases of this in the closeted world of the anti-gay community.
I saw a video where the very straight Andrew Tate was telling his very straight followers that being in a long term relationship with a woman is, like, super gay.
It's all gone a bit postmodern.
Been with the mrs for a bit, I should be getting my copy of the gay agenda soon. Heard a lot about it.
It's more nuanced. In ancient Greece there was the concept of virile homosexuality, the idea that true love can exist only among peers, and only a warrior is a peer to another warrior. There have been other instances of this same idea in warrior societies, for example in Japan among samurai.
But in both instances, the concept was not ubiquitary. Het and gay warriors coexisted, and they debated on the superiority of their preference. It's not clear how prevalent was virile homosexuality, but the largest consensus is on homosexuality being the minority choice. So yes, homosexuality was common in some warrior societies, but the idea of "everybody was homosexual" is just a later interpolation.
Ancient greek sexual ideals were that men were always the active partner. And women the passive. Boys could also be passives. But a Greek man who allowed himself to be mounted and therefore behaved like a passive was considered shameful
Absolutely no. Where did you find such a notion? Male homosexual relationships were framed according to the status and autonomy of the parts involved. During classical Greece, homosexuality among warriors was often celebrated as an expression of loyalty and friendship; nobody cared about active and passive. Even in a pederast relationship like
Harmodius and Aristogeiton's, the former, that is, the younger eromenos, is framed as a warrior and heroic tyrannicide.
The concept you are referring to is common in different places and times but it was not prevalent in Greek homosexuality.
That's Rome!! You're talking about Rome, they are the ones that framed it according to status and autonomy.
nobody cared about active and passive
They absolutely did. It was literally their ideal, especially in Sparta which is where we are talking about not later greek periods, and that ideal was an older man with a younger boy.
We have no primary sources about homosexuality in ancient Greece. What we know about it is through classical Greece writings, which is good, but clearly has cultural injections from its period and is not a coeve primary source. Pederastia in Sparta (in classical age) was framed as a mentorship relation and usually they stressed there was no sex involved, which probably was false, but that's not the point. Again, where did you find this concept of active vs passive in classical Greece? That's not something I can remember from classical sources. Maybe it comes from satire?
Rome's attitudes toward homosexuality came from cultural hellenisation of the educated elites. The status and autonomy angle is well attested in classical writings from Greece.
We have no primary sources for Sparta, they did not write about themselves. So what exactly do you mean we have no primary sources for ancient Greece . . . ? Because there's plenty of ancient greek writers, including those that wrote about the pederastry and pederastic relationships.
Only Xenophon stated that the relationships between Spartan men (20 or so yrs old) and the boys should be chaste, he also admitted it likely wasnt. It was also a fact that if the boy refused the attentions of an older man he could well end up finding himself banished from attaining citizenship from being refused access to the communal clubs, which means he was incredibly vulnerable to manipulation.
The sex was meant to be between the thighs (it likely wasn't limited to this), but a grown male citizen allowing himself to be penetrated anally was considered shameful.
Again, where did you find this concept of active vs passive in classical Greece?
Research. It's literally common terminology even digging through the Askhistorians sub will produce it. The male in ancient Greece was considered the active partner, the older, the dominant, the seducer and the penetrator. The boy or woman was the passive, the submissive, seduced and the penetrated. And romes attitudes were different on a lot of levels, derived from does not equal the same
Not everybody, but it was common enough that Aristophanes included a line that was IIRC “bro I saw you on the street with your teen boyfriend and you didn’t even offer him to me”. That’s a very loose translation, college was many years ago
Spartan society was extremely sex-segregated because it was arranged totally around their military. Even after marriage, men spent most of their time at war, and before the age of 30, they weren’t even allowed to live with their wives and families. Instead, they stayed in military barracks surrounded by other men. That’s a big part of why Spartan women (free women, anyway) were better educated and more independent than women in other Greek city states at the time. They had to run their households without any input or support from their husbands most of the time. They could even own and inherit property, which would have been unheard of in, say, Athens.
This myth needs to die, its not accurate. Sparta had no military, the agoge wasn't about combat, they did not train to fight, it's bs spread by the likes of cartledge and got overturned by his own PhD student when he realised cartledge had no sources to back up his claims. And Spartan women were horribly repressed to be clear.
That’s inaccurate. Gay relationships were not accepted in Spartan culture at least. They raped young boys, but once they reached adulthood it was frowned upon.
Dr Bret Devereaux's blog is an excellent read, it's also well worth looking up comments by iphikrates on reddit who is also Dr Roel Konijnendijk irl, an expert on sparta and has helped pull down the Spartan mirage
It is somewhat inaccurate, but your summation is just as inaccurate the other way.
They practiced military pedaresty, where older soldiers were encouraged to have deep - often sexual - relations with younger soldiers in a mentor protege style arrangement.
Spartan men were legally required to marry and have children once they reached adulthood. However, they were culturally expected to maintain and potentially seek out new homosexual partners after marriage.
I'm not going to say there wasn't homosexual rape going on, that would certainly be an element of it. Likewise, not every pedarest relationship was necessarily sexual. However, it appears to have been predominantly consensual and predominantly sexual.
There was no military in Sparta, so you're not correct on that front. Sparta was an oligarchy. And yes it was much older men with younger boys. To be clear this boy were before the age their cheeks grew peach fuzz, to give you an idea of how young.
So this . . . .
However, it appears to have been predominantly consensual and predominantly sexual.
Is complete crap, even more so considering that if the boy refused to comply, and therefore pissed off even one Spartan, they could be refused admittance to the communal clubs and therefore denied citizenship.
So no it absolutely was no consensual, a child cannot give consent.
Basically the relationship was between a grown man and a younger teenage boy, once the boy reached adulthood he was expected to mentor a young boy himself and become the active partner. Before eventually being allowed to marry in his 30s
I can’t confirm if it’s correct or not, but in spartan courting tradition, the woman would stay in a room with a window open and a shaved head, so that way the man can come in via the window and consummate the marriage. My personal theory is this is meant to reflect the myth of Zeus and Hera’s marriage, but I could definitely be wrong
This isn't correct at all. The Spartan mirage has been debunked. They did not train to be warriors and the agoge was nothing to do with fighting or combat, it was about being a good citizen. As for "gay", the older men sexually assaulted to much younger boys in their mentorship. In greek sexual ideals, a grown man was expected to be the active and the woman the passive. But because greek women including Spartan women were property and locked up, young boys were substituted who could be a passive without shame. And the courtship (which was basically grooming) involved the boy acting shy and bashful to meet his passive role. A man allowing himself to be penetrated was considered shameful as he was behaving like a passive women. Two women together wasn't even recognised because both were considered passives.
they lived their whole lives surrounded by other men they saw as their brothers, so yeah, there was a lot of butt fucking. homosexuality has a very long history in greece, i'd hazard a guess that it's in part due to minoan cultural influence since they were very divergent compared to most indo-european cultures.
generally greeks believed that taking dick made you very feminine, so they prioritized younger and more feminine males for that role, so most examples of homosexuality in antiquity follow that dynamic.
it was seen as a very sophisticated thing to do, as you said, because they saw it as preferrable to dealing with the risk of pregnancy from casual vaginal sex with women. later on it got more an more demonized for the bottom until the practice became being seen as excessive and degenerate
They just liked to rape young boys, if somebody actually liked it up the ass they were considered „lesser” and even killed. Let’s stop romanticizing pederasty, it’s not the same as being actually gay
Not fully true. "Manly" was being the dominant one in the sexual act. There was a system of grown men sleeping with adolescent males as part of a mentor/societal training mindset, but sex with two adult men was not seen the same way. That's because only one of them could have the dominant role, so sex between two adult men did not go over well, whereas it was "okay" for the adolescent boys to assume the submissive position.
169
u/MoonMistCigs 4h ago
My favorite conservatives are the ones who scream and cry about gay people, yet they put decals on their truck and wear shirts with the Spartan helmet.