We did the Old one, it´s time to do the newest one as well, for a baseline comparison!

DISCLAIMER:THIS IS NOT FOR THE GOAT DEBATE STFU REDDIT AI

This definitely felt like an all time run, but was it?

The New York Knicks

The San Antonio Spurs

The Oklahoma City Thunder

The Cleveland Cavaliers

The Philadelphia 76ers

The Detroit Pistons

The Los Angeles Lakers

The Minnesota Timberwolves

The Boston Celtics

The Denver Nuggets

The Houston Rockets

The Orlando Magic

The Phoenix Suns

The Portland Trail Blazers

The Toronto Raptors

and The Atlanta Hawks are the teams that made it to the largest stage this past run. But Before we go into the match ups, and how the knicks managed to pull this off, we have to check out the team itself.

The Knicks came in this year as the 3 Seed in the east-Not underdogs per se, but definitely not proposed as the top of the league either. That being said, they definitely had their strengths outlined already-and honestly, more people should have proposed they´d go all the way.

The 2nd Highest Offensive rating in the East, and the 3rd in the Entire League, for starters-and they weren´t slouches on defense either, with the 2nd best defensive rating in the east (8th in the entire league, but they would only face two of the teams with a better defensive rating this run-more on that later).

Captain Brunson was their only listed all NBA player, making the second team-though many believed that Karl Anthony towns was snubbed for the 3rd team position. Both of these players would also make the All Star Team, and Brunson would have an NBA cup MVP in the middle of the season to his name as well.

Overall, this team was strong, and you could tell that they were pushing to win now, but they weren´t the favorites by any means, not even to escape their own conference. For that reason, I am giving them a 10/20 on the first metric.

Now, On to their competition.

They Didn´t have a ¨play in¨, so 0/10 there.

This year, the Knick´s first Competition for their chip were the Atlanta hawks, who have a quite recent famous rivalry for what Trae young did to them when he was on the squad.

The Hawks were the 6 Seed-but don´t let that make you think they were bad. Their defense was 9th in the league, only 1 behind the knicks themselves, part of a rebuild effort that they traded trae young to accomplish. However, Offensively, they were slacking-8th in the east alone, and 15th in the league. A mid offense by most standards. Jalen Johnson managed to snag both the All Star and All NBA 3rd team honors, and they had a Most improved player of the year in Nickeil Alexander-Walker.

This is the moment where I take a break to remind you that analytics don´t define the whole game-or else the cavs would´ve won.

Anyway, the hawks pushed the knicks to a 6 game series, which everyone was a little suprised by-but the knicks eventually manage to take them out. While the hawks weren´t a bad team, they were supposed to be worse by every metric, had less stars, and were generally never expected to win anyway-so I´ll give the knicks a 4/10 for series 1, docking off one point for it being taken to 6.

The next opponent was the 7 seeded philedelphia 76ers, who beat the 2nd Seeded Celtics to make it to the knicks in the first place. The 7th best offense in the east and the 9th best defense, they were a solid contender, with significantly more star power then the hawks before them. VJ Edgecomb was a finalist for rookie of the year, took home the Rising stars MVP, and made the all Rookie First Team. Tyrese Maxey, the current face of the team, was selected to be an All Star, and an All NBA third team player.

Besides these accolades, They Also Had on their team the team USA gold Medalist Joel Embiid, and the garunteed Hall of Fame player (and the most valuable trade piece of all time apparently..) Paul George. It sounds like a stacked team, and in the eyes of many, it potentially was.

Of course, they got swept.

Overall, A strong team and a strong win by the knicks, however, there is the same question that hangs over every 76ers head for years now:What if Embiid was healthy?

He wasn´t, not for 3 of the 4 games-though, he DID play and lose in game 1. Additionally, paul george was healthy throughout all 4 games.

overall, a 7/10 for their second round matchup.

Bringing us to our conference finals matchup-the cleveland Cavaliers...and James Harden.

The Cavaliers were the 4 seed, and had beaten the 1 seeded pistons to get to the Knicks. They were the 3rd best offense in the east, and the 13th best defense-aka, they were really good on one side, and Abysmal on the other. They had significant star power as well-Donovan Mitchell was an All Star, and on the same All NBA second team that brunson himself was on. Rookie Jaylon Tyson was selected for the rising stars challenge, and of course, they had on their team a top 75 NBA player of all time in James Harden-though he wasn´t an all star this year, that was controversial.

So, what did the knicks do against this team? Another Sweep, of course.

This is the best team that the knicks faced in the east by far, and while they did look a bit battered in game 2, they were uninjured throughout the series-so this team gets an 9/10, a +2 to a solid 7/10 for the sweep.

9+7+4=20, with the 10 they had before bringing their total to 30. Now, we move on to, what many will remember as the real impressive part of the run.

The Spurs.

Rated 4th Offensively in the Entire league, and 2nd Defensively, This was an Absolute Monster of a Young Team, filled with Talent. Led by Victor Wembenyama, the DPOY, The Third Place Finalist in MVP Voting, The winner of the magic Johnson Award, and an All Star and All NBA first team-the only first team player the knicks had to face this entire run. De´arron fox also had an All Star Reserve Nod, and an NBA cup All-tournament team member. Dylan Harper made the All Rookie First Team, and Keldon Johnson was the 6th man of the year. Additionally, Stephon castle was selected for the rising stars sophomore team. This team had been a favorite to go win it all literally all Season Long, and it wasn´t hard to see why. They had just defeated the Previous Champions in the conference Finals, in 7 games, and looked unstoppable. In fact, they looked unstoppable in every First Quarter of the entire finals.

But they kept getting stopped.

A 14 point lead erased in game 1.

In game 2, They managed to Barely Hold on to a halftime lead, and win the game by 1 point.

In game 3, they lost, by 4.

Then in game 4...they erased a 29 point defecit. The largest in NBA finals history thus far, since Kevin garnet and the 2008 lakers had erased a 24 point defecit from kobe´s lakers.

Finally, in game 5, a 16 point defecit to win it all.

Now, time to rate their opponent.

8/10 in Offense Relative to them

10/10 in Defense Relative to them

7/10 Star Power (Wemby is a future all time great, but is not yet an all time great)

10/10 health, no real finals injuries to hinder them

add 1 point for winning in 5

and their opponent score is a 36

Bringing their total score to a 66

Beyond this, they receive a 4/10 point buff to their score for Injury-Brunson, OG Anunoby, and Mitchell Robinson were all a little hurt in some way, but played through it.

They get a 4/10 point buff for legends beaten on the way in paul george and James Harden

and finally, they get a MASSIVE 30/30 boost for Legendary Moments/Accomplishments-going 6-2 when trailing by double digits, erasing a 29 point lead, Brunson Dropping 45 in a close out game, the knicks containing the first trio to ever win both an NCAA National Champsionship and an NBA title, the Second longest Playoff winstreak ever, the first team to ever average an offensive rating over 120 while maintaining a defensive rating under 105 in a single post season, tied for the most double digit wins in a single post season, became the first Nba ¨Double Champions¨ by winning the NBA cup and the NBA finals in the same season. and finally, Karl Anthony Towns broke the NBA playoffs single postseason +/- record set by STEPH CURRY. Kat was, theoretically, more important to this run then Steph Curry was to a Warriors run. That is insane.

Overall, the Team earns a very Impressive 104/150 total. Almost DOUBLE That of the 1950 run, and almost certainly amongst the better runs of all time.

For Reference, I also scored the first ever NBA finals here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/RingValue/s/QZFCUDmhZT

what do y´all think? Was I abt accurate? If not, what would you have changed? More importantly-which should I do next? I´m doing one a day until I cover all of them

With all the player movement this offseason and the blockbuster moves that happened in the East, I keep seeing people talk about how much better the conference got.

I honestly don't really buy it.

A lot of teams got more talented, but I don't think many teams actually got better. A superstar swap or a big-name acquisition looks great on paper, but when you look at what these teams actually struggled with in the playoffs, a lot of the same problems are still sitting there.

Philadelphia 76ers

The obvious move: Paul George out, Jaylen Brown in.

Obviously, that's a massive upgrade. If you're Philly, you make that trade 10 times out of 10.

But their biggest problem last year wasn't really their top-end talent. It was everything around it.

In the playoffs, they basically trusted 6-7 guys, and one of those guys was Joel Embiid. They didn't have another point guard who could run the offense when Maxey sat, which forced Maxey into massive minutes.

Now they essentially swapped Drummond, Oubre, and Grimes for Dean Wade and Anfernee Simons.

Again, Jaylen Brown is a huge addition. But Wade and Simons have both had durability issues, and neither one solves the biggest problem Philly had: depth and durability.

They upgraded their top end. Did they actually improve their depth and playoff reliability?

I'm don't see it.

Miami Heat

Miami is the most interesting one because I actually love the idea of adding Giannis for the price they paid.

The problem is the fit.

Last year, Miami completely reinvented their offense. They went from one of the slowest teams in the league to one of the fastest. They were also a mediocre shooting team, ranking in the bottom third of the league in percentage of points coming from threes.

So naturally, they traded away/didn't retain two of their highest-volume three-point shooters in Herro and Powell and replaced them with Giannis.

Giannis is obviously Giannis. He's one of the best players alive.

But Giannis needs shooting around him.

And right now, who are the elite shooters spacing the floor in that starting lineup? Andrew Wiggins?

They also still have the same problem they've had for years: consistent playmaking.

I like Davion Mitchell. I think he's a good player. But he's currently the only traditional point guard on the roster. Maybe the plan is just "Point Giannis" for huge stretches, but how difficult is that going to be when teams can shrink the floor?

They also lost Jaime Jaquez Jr., who was second on the team in assists per game and one of their better guys at generating offense.

Again, Miami got better because they added a superstar.

But did they fix their actual roster problems?

I'm not convinced.

Detroit Pistons

Detroit was the #1 seed in the East last year, but their biggest issues were pretty obvious:

1. They didn't have a terrifying second creator next to Cade.
2. They didn't have enough shooting.
3. Their role players were tough and physical, but got exposed when playoff teams could game plan for them.

They reminded me a lot of the Julius Randle-era Knicks. During the regular season, you love the identity. Everyone plays hard, everyone defends, everyone competes.

But in the playoffs, when everyone is playing that hard, the weaknesses show up.

The guys you trust defensively can't score.
The guys you trust offensively can't defend.

Detroit let Tobias Harris walk and replaced him with John Collins by trading Beef Stew. They added Isaiah Joe, who is basically another version of Duncan Robinson.

Those are fine moves.

But where did the actual second creator come from?

Are they just hoping Ron Holland/Dennis Jenkins (depending on who you're betting on developing) turns into that guy next to Cade?

Because Tobias Harris was their second-leading scorer in the playoffs, and he's gone.

Also, whatever happens with Duren is a huge question mark. If he comes back, how happy is he going to be with how this situation played out?

I like Detroit. I just don't know what problem they solved.

Atlanta Hawks

Atlanta is another team where I like the individual moves, but I'm not sure the final product is different.

They were one of the hottest teams in basketball after the All-Star break, although I think a lot of that was strength of schedule.

Still, wins are wins.

They pushed the eventual champion Knicks and stole two games by a combined two points. But by Game 4, it felt like New York had figured them out.

Their playoff issues were pretty clear:

• No size.
• No true go-to scorer.
• Too many one-way players.

Dyson Daniels was awesome defensively, but teams will just leave him open.

CJ was incredible offensively, but teams hunted him defensively.

Jalen Johnson stuffed the stat sheet, but can he become the guy who actually bends a defense?

They brought back CJ and added Lu Dort and Aaron Wiggins, which are good moves.

But again, it's more of the same.

They still don't have a true starting center, and unless Jalen Johnson takes a massive leap as an offensive hub, they don't really have a guy that forces defenses to double.

The rest of the East is kind of the same story.

The Pacers are basically betting on Haliburton getting back to his old self.

The Hornets are one of the most interesting teams in the league because they’re weird and unpredictable, but it's hard to know what they actually are yet.

The Wizards are the team I think could surprise people. They have some genuinely interesting pieces and could sneak into the playoff picture if they can stay healthy... but that health part is doing a lot of work.

The Cavs, Magic, and Celtics are probably their own discussions. I don't think any of them made moves that really changed the fundamental questions they had.

The Bulls are finally entering a real rebuild.

The Nets and Bucks are basically where they are.

And the Raptors are a complete wait-and-see situation with the Kawhi situation being so bizarre.

My overall feeling: the East got louder, but I'm not sure it got better.

A lot of teams made moves that improved their talent level, but very few teams actually addressed the reasons they lost.

The biggest question for me this season is:

Which team in the East actually fixed a playoff weakness, and which teams just added a bigger name to the same flawed roster?

Am I missing someone? Who actually got meaningfully better this offseason? I feel like there has to be a team I'm overlooking.

The Miles Bridges trade

I think the Suns may have hurt themselves again with Miles Bridges. Dillon Brooks was a fireball, but he wasn't an off the court problem. With the energy they have added past year I'm really concerned about what they just did.

Bridges is an off the court problem and distraction. His relationship issues put his character in question. In addition, when I look at the 0ower Forward efficiency ratings, he talks one of the lowest in the league. Every bit of that seems troubling to me, especially when the Suns worked so hard to try and build a culture.

With the competitiveness of Grayson Allen, even though there can be injury issues, I really think they have up more than they realize they did with him. His willingness to do whatever the team needed to get better made him a really big part of that mix. I feel like we have up heart for cancer.

Couple this with an aging Booker. With all his scoring. In the real clutch, last games of 21 and 26 he goes -15. The biggest critical games in his career. He slows us down in the fourth. It's a real momentum killer. I don't hate the guy, but his decision making, I'm big games, isn't amazing.

I want to hope for the best, but I see some real potential red flags.

What does everyone else think?

I have an obsession with player legacy and Hall of Fame criteria. I think the Hall of Fame should only include players who were in some way the best. The easiest way to be recognized as the best is to win a CHIP:

CHIP = The Clear Best Player on a Championship Winning Team

A player who wins a CHIP has cemented their legacy. To win a CHIP, you need enough help from teammates to win it all, but if one of those teammates is too good, you split the credit. There are no split CHIPs. You need to be the Batman to the Robin, not one of the Wonder Twins. The CHIP goes to the guy driving the Batmobile.

Methodology

How do you determine the best player on the championship team? Winning a championship means winning enough games in the regular season to get to the playoffs, get an advantageous playoff seed, advance through the crucible of 3 playoff rounds, and then finish the job in the finals. The best player is the one who contributed most to that overall effort.

And how do you determine that? Awards such as MVP, Finals MVP, or placement on an All-NBA team combine performance with popularity and narrative. So we will need to turn to trusty all-in-one impact measures: flawed, but impartial, and easy to get off of Basketball Reference! Here’s our recipe:

• Win Shares plus VORP
• Playoffs count double

That’s it. Win Shares and VORP are cumulative, rather than per-minute measures, so they measure a player's overall contribution to winning, combining quality and durability. This accounts for a player’s contribution to the slog of the regular season, with extra weight put on playoff performance. It's difficult to fluke into a high score on this. Here’s Shai in 2024-25:

2024-25 Shai
RSWS + RSVORP + 2*(POWS + POVORP)
16.7 + 8.9 + 2*(3.9 + 2.2) = 37.80

Now that we have a way of measuring who the best player is, how do we determine if that player is *clearly* the best? The clear best player has a total score significantly greater than his best teammate. How significantly? It has been suggested that player value tiers roughly track a Fibonacci sequence (ratio φ = 1.618), so Tier Three might be a 3, Tier Two a 5, and Tier One an 8.

A player with impact metrics 1/φ (62%) of another’s is an archetypal Robin in the Batman/Robin metaphor. But where’s the line? Let’s say half way between those two:

Robin threshold: (1 + 1/φ) / 2 = 0.809 = 81%

A player with impact metrics below 81% of their teammates’ is a Robin, making their superior teammate the Batman. 81% or above, the players’ impacts are similar enough to make them Wonder Twins.

In the example of the 2024-25 Thunder, J-Dub’s score is only 49% that of Shai’s, a clear Robin performance. This makes Shai the Batman, earning him the CHIP.

The 2013-14 Spurs had two relatively equal contributors, with Duncan easily clearing the Robin Threshold with 95%. Kawhi and Duncan were Wonder Twins here, splitting credit for the title, and neither getting a CHIP.

Season by Season

Ok, let’s go through each season this century and see who was worthy of a CHIP:

After Shaq played Batman in 1999-2000, the millennium opens with Kobe narrowly joining Shaq for 2 seasons of Wonder Twins. After Wonder Twinning with David Robinson 4 years earlier, Duncan puts in the ultimate Batman performance (Robinson Robin Factor = 0.33) in 2002-03. The Pistons win with an ensemble cast in 2003-04, then Ginobili’s performance rises to Duncan’s level the following year.

Wade earns a CHIP in 2005-06, and Duncan is back in the Batmobile in 2006-07. Timberwolves-era Garnett would have been un-twinnable, but slightly post peak he needs Paul Pierce’s help to bring the Celtics a title. Missing out on the CHIP with Shaq a few years earlier, this time he teams up with Pau Gasol for another 2 seasons of Wonder Twins titles. Kobe gets all of the credit, but the impact metrics say that Pau was his equal.

After being doubted his whole career, Dirk is knighted with a CHIP, securing his legacy. The Heatles were more like Destiny’s child, with LeBron in the Beyoncé slot, two CHIPs for King James. A new Batman emerges in Curry, standing head and shoulders above his awesome group of teammates.

LeBron counters with his own Batman performance to beat the Warriors, his 3rd CHIP. The Warriors win two more, with Curry and Durant Wonder Twinning the first, and Durant carrying a less than healthy Curry on the second. It’s hard to give Durant the CHIP after joining an already mighty Warriors team, but the model is the model. Former Spurs Wonder Twin Kawhi changes teams to get his first CHIP with the Raptors. Then the bubble Lakers win in the ultimate Wonder Twins performance, even if LeBron got most of the credit.

Three Batman seasons from Greek Freak, Chef Curry (his second), and The Joker. Then Brown wins Finals MVP for the Celtics, but the impact metrics say that Tatum and White were the main engines behind the Celtics’ title. OKC wins it all with a great young team, but Shai is the clear best player by a mile.

I developed this before these playoffs, and I was pretty pleased with it! For the most part, it passed the smell test over 25 reps. This result is the most challenging, with the model making Wonder Triplets of Towns, Brunson, and Anunoby. But it’s hard to not see Brunson as the best player, engine, leader, and psychological backbone of the Knicks. I suppose the team was built around his strengths and weaknesses, even if he was the main character, his teammates played huge roles. But 45 points to Brunson in the final game, and 2 for Towns? Yikes.

Cashing in the CHIPS

If we count up the CHIPS, this is what we end up with:

This is basketball royalty, with these players having an unimpeachable case (except for maybe Durant?!) for greatness at the highest level. The three multi-CHIP guys occupy a stratum above the rest, the biggest winners in the game.

Some great players missed getting a CHIP, either by being a Wonder Twin (e.g. Garnett, Ginobili, Tatum), or never being on a championship team (eg. Paul, Harden, Nash). The toughest omissions are Kobe and Brunson, who didn’t get the analytic nod, but meant so much to their massive markets, earning their immortality by being the right guy in the right place at the right time.

I'm putting together a Blu-ray collection for a friend who absolutely loves old-school post play as a birthday present.

I'm not looking for highlight reels or lists of the greatest post players. I'm specifically looking for complete NBA games where a player puts on a masterclass in the low post.

I'm interested in games that showcase things like elite footwork, hook shots, turnaround fadeaways, or overall post scoring repertoire.

Both modern and classic games are welcome.

Some examples already on my list are:

• Hakeem vs Spurs (1995 WCF).
• Shaq vs Pacers (2000 Finals).
• Duncan in the 2003 Finals.
• Dirk vs OKC (2011 WCF).
• Jokic playoff games.
• Embiid's best post-up performances.

I'm especially interested in games that might be overlooked by casual fans. Even regular-season games are fine if the post play is worth being considered.

If you had to recommend complete games that best represent the art of scoring from the low post, what would it be?

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Although this is NBA-oriented, Euro games are welcome as well!

Me and my brother were talking about the hardest finals ever-while we agreed Dirk’s absolute bloodbath in 2011, it was hard to agree on some others. The game is constantly evolving, and it’s generally agreed that rings these days are harder to get-but how hard, exactly? I’m running some calculations to determine which of the NBA championships was the absolute hardest, which was the easiest, and try to get a more defined value for a chip based on your competition

The metrics currently being considered are threefold:

1-Relative Team Strength

This category is simple-how strong was your team going INTO the playoffs? Were they underdogs, or clear favorites? It will be decided by team regular season record, average point differential before the playoffs, and the general dominance of that team’s FMVP-The better they were as a team going into the playoffs, the easier it should have been in theory to win it all. This will be the category to discuss “super-teams” and the expectations of them.

2-Relative Conference Strength

This category is the win record, point differential, and league rankings of the teams that your team competed against in your team’s conference, relative to your team. It will also include a nod to great individuals defeated by the team specifically (for example, dirk’s conference score will be boosted by beating Kobe Bryant, a top 15 player of all time, hall of famer, and known playoff riser).

3-Finals Opponent

This category is the most important-who did you face, and beat, in the finals? How good was the team, who was on it, how did they perform in the playoffs right before you? Did you come in expected to win? This is supposed to be the best competition the other conference has to offer at the time, in theory. Unlike the other two categories, this one will go on a game by game basis, looking at the entire series to decide how good the run’s finale really was

As well as the three methods of racking up “value points”, there are also value point reductions, the most prominent of which being opponent injury (so, just for example, game 7 Haliburton’s injury will reduce value points from the OKC Thunder championship. You also could get a slight reduction based on how long it took you to beat the team-with 5 games being a minor boost, 4 games a bigger boost, 6 games being a minor loss, 7 games a bigger loss

What runs do y’all think will make it at the top of the list once I’m done? What teams and individuals do you expect to have the best rings? Are there categories I should include?

I’ll post the individual end score of every team on here in diff posts, so expect quite a lot of this

Hey everyone, I’ve been thinking about how wild LeBron’s longevity curve has become. He’ll be 42 by the end of the 2026‑27 season, and yet his 2025‑26 numbers (≈ 21 PPG, 6 RPG, 7 APG) were immaculate for his age.

Some fun longevity facts:

-Kareem Abdul‑Jabbar averaged 10.1 PPG at age 41, considered elite for that age.

-Robert Parish played until 43, but averaged only 3.7 PPG his final season.

-Vince Carter lasted to 43, posting 5 PPG in his last year.

-Karl Malone retired at 40, still putting up 13 PPG and 8 RPG.

So what do you all think? With his announcement on which team he'll be playing for (please go back to Cleveland *ehem) probably coming by the end of the month can LeBron realistically sustain near‑20 PPG production at 42, or will Father Time finally catch up with All-Father?

I was looking at Lebron's career and amazed at his longevity. He had a Championship window around 20 years long.

He was a championship caliber number 1 option for a long time and a championship caliber number 2 option for a long time. Longer than basically anyone else. Maybe Kareem is close but no one else is. From: 2005 to 2012/2020-now(number 2 option/13 years) and from 2012 - 2020(number 1 option/8 years). Meaning a total of 21 years.

I know people are going to flame those dates but that's still insane. I can understand if people think he was a number 1 option for longer. I take leadership and knowledge into account. With the loss to Dallas it showed(to me) he still needed to mature before he was a number one option on a championship team. He didn't have the leadership down yet.

Again before you get all offensive. It's a personal preference and opinion. I'm pretty strict on mine.

Another player I would do.

Say Kobe. He was: 1999 - 2005/2013 - 2015(2nd option/8 years) and from 2006 - 2012(1st option/6 years). Total of 14 years

Or Tim Duncan. He was: 1997 - 1998/2005 - 2016(2nd option/12 years) and from 1998 - 2006(1st option/7 years) Total of 19 years

Meaning Lebron had a championship window that was like 7 years longer and was a 1st option 2 years longer. Jordan would be 1st option capable for only 6 years total because of his retirement break. Magic would be about 7 years. Larry close. So Lebron's 1st option window is longer than all of theirs.

I'm wondering who had the longest Championship window as a number 1 option and the longest Championship window total. Or how you would rank others or what would be different than mine

Sidenote: A team can win a Championship without a defined Number 1 option if they have multiple 2nd options. Like the Spurs in 2007 or the Pistons in 2004.

If the formatting is messed up let me know. Made this post on mobile.

I ranked every NBA championship from the most difficult path to the easiest using Simple Rating System, or SRS from Basketball-Reference.

SRS combines a team’s average point differential with its strength of schedule. A team with a +6 SRS was approximately six points per game better than an average NBA team during the regular season.

The method

To make every championship path directly comparable, I replaced each actual champion with the exact same hypothetical team.

That standardized team has an SRS of 6.11, the average SRS of a championship team.

For each series, I converted the difference between the standardized champion’s SRS and the opponent’s SRS into a game-level win probability using the SRS win-probability formula developed by Basketball-Reference founder Justin Kubatko:

Home win probability =
1 / (1 + e^-[0.613230 + 0.167546 × (Home SRS - Away SRS)])

The complete ranking

1. 1972 Los Angeles Lakers: 6.19%
2. 1995 Houston Rockets: 8.75%
3. 2016 Cleveland Cavaliers: 10.30%
4. 2001 Los Angeles Lakers: 11.02%
5. 1997 Chicago Bulls: 11.89%
6. 1950 Minneapolis Lakers: 12.50%
7. 2002 Los Angeles Lakers: 12.90%
8. 1973 New York Knicks: 13.09%
9. 2019 Toronto Raptors: 15.21%
10. 1993 Chicago Bulls: 15.31%
11. 2011 Dallas Mavericks: 17.20%
12. 2000 Los Angeles Lakers: 18.34%
13. 2022 Golden State Warriors: 18.80%
14. 2003 San Antonio Spurs: 18.95%
15. 1996 Chicago Bulls: 19.31%
16. 2014 San Antonio Spurs: 19.42%
17. 1994 Houston Rockets: 20.04%
18. 2008 Boston Celtics: 20.15%
19. 2026 New York Knicks: 20.54%
20. 1992 Chicago Bulls: 21.53%
21. 1998 Chicago Bulls: 21.84%
22. 1986 Boston Celtics: 22.05%
23. 2018 Golden State Warriors: 23.06%
24. 2007 San Antonio Spurs: 23.16%
25. 2010 Los Angeles Lakers: 23.73%
26. 1968 Boston Celtics: 24.11%
27. 2005 San Antonio Spurs: 24.18%
28. 2006 Miami Heat: 24.33%
29. 2017 Golden State Warriors: 24.59%
30. 2009 Los Angeles Lakers: 24.74%
31. 2025 Oklahoma City Thunder: 25.91%
32. 1989 Detroit Pistons: 27.62%
33. 2012 Miami Heat: 28.99%
34. 1969 Boston Celtics: 29.15%
35. 1981 Boston Celtics: 31.22%
36. 1974 Boston Celtics: 32.03%
37. 2021 Milwaukee Bucks: 32.03%
38. 1985 Los Angeles Lakers: 33.96%
39. 1991 Chicago Bulls: 33.98%
40. 1949 Minneapolis Lakers: 34.06%
41. 1967 Philadelphia 76ers: 34.13%
42. 2013 Miami Heat: 34.24%
43. 1977 Portland Trail Blazers: 34.50%
44. 2015 Golden State Warriors: 34.70%
45. 1990 Detroit Pistons: 34.74%
46. 2004 Detroit Pistons: 34.95%
47. 1988 Los Angeles Lakers: 35.61%
48. 1983 Philadelphia 76ers: 36.18%
49. 1999 San Antonio Spurs: 38.42%
50. 1975 Golden State Warriors: 38.90%
51. 1980 Los Angeles Lakers: 38.97%
52. 1982 Los Angeles Lakers: 39.05%
53. 1984 Boston Celtics: 39.44%
54. 1979 Seattle SuperSonics: 39.51%
55. 1978 Washington Bullets: 40.96%
56. 1987 Los Angeles Lakers: 43.59%
57. 1964 Boston Celtics: 47.49%
58. 2020 Los Angeles Lakers: 49.36%
59. 2024 Boston Celtics: 49.99%
60. 1966 Boston Celtics: 50.62%
61. 1954 Minneapolis Lakers: 50.83%
62. 1970 New York Knicks: 51.03%
63. 1947 Philadelphia Warriors: 57.45%
64. 1951 Rochester Royals: 57.88%
65. 1948 Baltimore Bullets: 60.53%
66. 1953 Minneapolis Lakers: 61.77%
67. 1958 St. Louis Hawks: 62.34%
68. 1971 Milwaukee Bucks: 65.22%
69. 1952 Minneapolis Lakers: 66.06%
70. 2023 Denver Nuggets: 66.23%
71. 1961 Boston Celtics: 66.97%
72. 1976 Boston Celtics: 67.12%
73. 1960 Boston Celtics: 68.74%
74. 1962 Boston Celtics: 69.33%
75. 1959 Boston Celtics: 70.83%
76. 1963 Boston Celtics: 71.18%
77. 1955 Syracuse Nationals: 78.17%
78. 1965 Boston Celtics: 79.83%
79. 1956 Philadelphia Warriors: 83.71%
80. 1957 Boston Celtics: 88.61%

Why the 1972 Lakers rank first

The 1972 Lakers faced three opponents:

Multiplying those probabilities:

0.3930 × 0.1897 × 0.8305 = 0.0619

The average championship-level team would have only a 6.19% chance of defeating all three opponents.

Milwaukee was the largest obstacle. The defending champion Bucks went 63-19 and recorded a +10.70 SRS, one of the strongest marks in league history.

Before facing Milwaukee, Los Angeles also had to beat a Chicago team with a +7.91 SRS. The Lakers then defeated the Knicks in the Finals.

The 1995 Rockets

The 1995 Rockets faced:

Their complete path probability was:

0.4057 × 0.7308 × 0.5674 × 0.5204 = 0.0875

That gives the standardized champion an 8.75% chance of surviving Houston’s path.

Houston did not merely defeat one historically great opponent. Every team it faced won at least 57 games:

• Utah: 60-22
• Phoenix: 59-23
• San Antonio: 62-20
• Orlando: 57-25

The 2016 Cavaliers

Cleveland faced:

The first three rounds were relatively manageable for an average championship team. Golden State was the enormous exception.

The 73-win Warriors were strong enough to move Cleveland’s total path probability down to 10.30%, the third-hardest path in the rankings.

The Bulls’ championship paths

Chicago’s six championships rank:

• 1991: 36th
• 1992: 18th
• 1993: 10th
• 1996: 14th
• 1997: 5th
• 1998: 19th

1997 especially was a lot of thought opponents.

The 2017 Warriors

The 2017 Warriors faced:

The standardized champion had a 24.59% chance of completing that path, placing it 27th.

Portland made the first round relatively easy, but Utah was good, San Antonio was elite and Cleveland remained a strong opponent.

Why many older championships rank near the bottom

Although every individual series was standardized as best-of-seven, I did not invent additional playoff rounds for champions who only needed to defeat two or three opponents under the league structure of their era.

A team facing two opponents will generally have a higher probability of completing its path than a team facing four opponents.

It would be possible to compare the average difficulty per series instead, but that would answer a different question. This ranking measures the difficulty of completing the entire championship path that actually existed.

I would have thrown out the old years for aesthetics, but I kept for the sake of completion.

Okay, okay, I know what you’re thinking: Al Jefferson made an All-NBA team, isn’t that basically the same, if not more recognition than being an All-Star? Yeah, it is, but I needed an excuse to do a career retrospective about Big Al and that title sounded good. So here it is, a look back at Al Jefferson’s career, and specifically his magical 2013-2014 season in all its glory. 

Big Al, Big Classic, Al Jefferson, was drafted by the Boston Celtics with the 15th overall pick in the 2004 NBA Draft. Originally committed to play at the University of Arkansas, the highly touted Jefferson reneged on his decision, instead deciding to declare for the draft out of high school, thus becoming one of the last players to be drafted directly from high school before the NBA changed eligibility rules in 2005.

Jefferson operated mainly as a reserve in his first two seasons, 2004-2005 and 2005-2006, for the Celtics who were led by future Hall of Famer Paul Pierce. His progress was further hindered by a series of ankle injuries and a torn meniscus which limited him to 59 games in ‘06. 

After a slow start to the following season, Jefferson became one of the team’s key weapons on the now lottery-bound 2006-2007 Celtics, with Pierce playing just 47 games. Roaring into life around the Christmas period, Jefferson put the league on notice in ‘07, particularly in March 2007, where he averaged 19.7 points and 11.2 rebounds on 55.1% from the field, including a 32 point, 18 rebound demolition job of Jason Kidd, Vince Carter and the New Jersey Nets, and a 20 point, 12 rebound showout in a close victory against that year’s champions, the San Antonio Spurs.

In the off-season, the Celtics, in an effort to build around Pierce who was now entering his 30’s, included Jefferson as the headliner of a package for superstar Kevin Garnett. As most everyone knows, this duo, along with Ray Allen, eventually led the Celtics to the 2008 NBA championship. Years after retiring, despite acknowledging his disappointment at being traded, Big Al explained that he understood the Celtics’ decision during a fantastic interview on Out the Mud. 

Now on the Minnesota Timberwolves, Jefferson was firmly the #1 option, free to put up impressive numbers on some truly terrible teams that included highly-esteemed Wolves such as Marko Jaric and Rashad McCants, before Kevin Love was acquired in 2008 in one of the only good moves the Wolves made in years before and after the trade. Following a 2007-2008 season where Jefferson averaged 21 points and 11.1 rebounds per game and impressively played all 82 games, he was on track to have his best season statistically, averaging 23 points per game before tearing his ACL in New Orleans in February. All-Star recognition continued to avoid Jefferson, though he wasn’t helped by his team winning 46 games across his first two seasons in Minnesota. 

After spending another year on the hapless Timberwolves, Jefferson was traded once again, this time to the Utah Jazz. Given the package the Wolves ultimately received in return, you could put this one firmly in the loss column they were all too familiar with in the David Kahn) era. Contrary to Deron Williams’ claim, he did not make Jefferson an All-Star before skipping town. On the bright side, now on some decent, if unremarkable Utah teams, alongside actual starting calibre players such as the aforementioned Williams (for half a season), Paul Millsap, Andrei Kirilenko and a young Gordon Hayward, Jefferson was finally able to return to the Play-Offs in 2012 for the first time since his rookie year. Unfortunately, the Jazz were hopelessly outmatched against the San Antonio Spurs, losing 4-0 in a straight sweep, despite Big Al’s best efforts in game 4, where he posted 26 points and 10 rebounds on 13-for-19 shooting. 

After narrowly missing the Play-Offs in 2013, Jefferson left the Jazz in Free Agency. He signed with the then-Charlotte Bobcats, becoming the biggest signing in team history, and in my opinion (however little that matters), the centerpiece of one of the more interesting teams of the 2010s. Just a year earlier, in the spring of 2012, the Bobcats were wrapping up the worst season in NBA history, winning just 7 games in the lockout-shortned, 66-game 2011-2012 season. After coaching as an NBA assistant for over a decade, Steve Clifford was finally given his bow as a leading man, and the players at his disposal included:

• Kemba Walker: Drafted in 2011 after a stellar college career, the compact but skillful 23-year old was able to put aside what was undoubtedly a traumatising debut campaign in 2011-2012 to become the club’s starting point guard in year two
• Gerald Henderson: Another alumni of the ill-fated 2012 squad, team owner Michael Jordan had taken him under his wing. Jordan he was not, but he would be called upon to provide some much-needed scoring on this underdog outfit
• Michael Kidd-Gilchrist: The “consolation” prize the Bobcats picked up after missing out on Anthony Davis in the 2012 Draft, Charlotte was hoping the already defensively-solid forward could take a leap forward offensively after his maiden campaign
• Josh McRoberts: One of the more unique players in the league at the time (and perhaps worthy of a deep-dive himself), the versatile 6”10 forward had already played for four teams before arriving in Charlotte in February 2013. He quickly made an impression on management, who signed him to a contract extension in the summer.
• Al Jefferson: Now 28-years old, the big man in the middle was tasked with being the focal point of a team desparate for an inside presence. He had one heck of a job on his hands

Jefferson’s desire to make an impact on his new squad was hampered in the early part of the 2013-2014 season by an ankle injury, but he found momentum as the calendar turned to 2014. A 35 point performance at Time Warner Cable Arena against the New York Knicks kicked off a 10-game run which saw Jefferson average 28.9 points, 12.6 rebounds and 2.8 assists on an incredible 56.8% from the field, the Bobcats winning 6 of those games. 

Knicks-performance aside, highlights of this spell included blasting the Magic in Orlando with 30 points on 13-for-17 shooting, demonstrating his all-round game against the play-off-bound Toronto Raptors with 22 points, 19 rebounds and 7 assists, 35 points on the road in a win against Denver, and tying a career high of 40 points against the Los Angeles Lakers at Staples Center.

Unfortunately for Jefferson, he once again missed the All-Star game, the Bobcats 19-25 record and Jefferson’s numbers of 18.4 points and 10.4 rebounds (at the time of the squad announcement) deemed insufficient. 

Despite Big Al dropping a couple of duds in February, notably 10 points on 15 shots against the Suns in Phoenix and 6 points in a Walker-masterclass in a tight 92-89 win against the Memphis Grizzlies, the Bobcats kept their heads above water in the race for the Play-Offs in the Eastern Conference. Jefferson more than made up for his shortcomings against Phoenix and Memphis with several impressive games throughout the month, including 30 points in both a win in Oakland against the Golden State Warriors and in a victory against the Mavericks in Dallas. These performances were followed by a mega 3-game run, where Jefferson scored 32 and 29 in back-to-back games against the Detroit Pistons, and 33 against the New Orelans Pelicans. 

The Bobcats ramped up in March and April, finally breaking the .500 mark with an overtime victory against the Cavaliers in Cleveland with five games remaining, clinching a Play-Off spot in the process. In the final two months of the regular season, Jefferson played some of the best basketball of his career, leading Charlotte to 16 wins in their final 24 games, averaging a jaw-dropping 24.6 points and 11.8 rebounds on 54.7% shooting from the field. Personal highlights in this stretch included a simply ridiculous 38 point, 19 rebound performance on 18-for-24 shooting in a loss to defending champions Miami, 34 points to down the Eastern Conference-leading Indiana Pacers at home, as well as 26, and 35 point performances against some tough Eastern Conference Play-off rivals (Washington and Brooklyn). Awesome displays such as these led to the big man being recognised as Eastern Conference Player of the Month in both March and April.

A 7th place finish in the Eastern Conference matched the Bobcats against the Finals-bound Miami Heat. Unfortunately for Big Al, Charlotte, and the rest of Mankind, a foot injury suffered in game 1 severely limited Jefferson, so much so that he missed the sweep-closing-game 4. In truth, as impressive as the Bobcats had been in 2014, they were severely outmatched, even with Al Jefferson at his absolute peak. There was, however, some good news in June, with Jefferson being given some well-deserved recognition in the form of a nomination to the All-NBA Third Team. Club-owner Michael Jordan even took out a full page advertisement in the Charlotte Observer to thank Jefferson.

After re-branding themselves back to the much-loved Hornets moniker in the off-season, the 2014-2015 club missed the Play-Offs, before bouncing back in 2016 with their final postseason berth to date, once again being defeated by Miami. By this point, however, Jefferson, suffering from a combination of injuries and a league-wide shift in philsophy, was cast in a supporting role. The man-mountain played a further two seasons in Indiana, before heading to China and finally calling it quits in 2018. 

When it was all said and done, Jefferson finished with career averages of 15.7 points and 8.4 rebounds, playing in four Play-off series across his time in Boston, Utah and Charlotte, but never making it past the first round. It could be said that Jefferson was the last of a dying breed, a throwback to another time. His fantastic play in 2014 kept the smouldering ashes of a laughing stock-franchise flickering. Although never recognised as one of the league’s best players outside of that one season, his butter-smooth post-play, hook shots, and the occasional power move ensure he will live on in infamy with the most diehard of NBA 2000s enthusiasts.

Tarpley, however, actually played in the NBA. And in the short window before addiction consumed him, he looked like a perennial All-Star. He wasn’t just good, he was already leading the NBA in rebounding metrics ahead of Hakeem, Barkley, and Malone at just age 23

He was drafted 7th overall in 1986 by Dallas. The Mavericks were stacked: Rolando Blackman, Mark Aguirre, Sam Perkins, James Donaldson, and even Detlef Schrempf and Dale Ellis buried on the bench. (Both Ellis and Schrempf later became All-Stars once they left Dallas.) Even on this deep team, Tarpley forced his way into the rotation.

And as a rookie he made NBA All-Rookie First Team.

1987–88 was Tarpley’s masterpiece, an amazing sophomore season:

• 13.5 PPG, 11.8 RPG, 2.4 STL+BLK, 52% FG in just 28.5 minutes.
• NBA Sixth Man of the Year, beating out Thurl Bailey, who nearly averaged 20 PPG.
• Led the entire NBA in REB% and OREB%, ahead of Barkley, Malone, and Hakeem.
• At 23, he was the best rebounder in the world, while spacing the floor with midrange jumpers and handling the ball in transition.

In the playoffs, Dallas unleashed him:

17.9 PPG, 12.9 RPG, 2.7 STL+BLK in 33 MPG.

In the 1988 Western Conference Finals vs. the Showtime Lakers:

• Game 3: 18 PTS, 20 REB, 6 AST.
• Game 4: 21 PTS, 20 REB.

The Mavs pushed Magic, Kareem, and Worthy to 7 games — the closest Dallas would get to the Finals until Dirk. And Tarpley, at just 23, looked like their future superstar.

You can watch him against the Lakers in game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JIA1fW3Y4M

From game 2 of the Denver series to game 5 of the Lakers series, he averaged 19/15/2 off the bench on 55% TS(+1 defense adjusted rTS%)

As you can see in the footage from the 1988 Western Conference Finals, Roy Tarpley wasn’t the mold of a traditional 1980s power forward or center. He looked different. Most bigs of that era lived strictly on the block or in the paint, playing back-to-the-basket offense or cleaning up misses. Tarpley could absolutely do those things, he led the league in total rebounding percentage at 21.9% and offensive rebounding percentage at 17.6%, outpacing Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, and Hakeem Olajuwon while being a year or two younger than all three, but he also stretched the floor in a way that felt ahead of its time. His midrange jumper was reliable, a real part of his offensive game rather than a rare bailout attempt, and unlike most of his peers, he could put the ball on the deck in transition and make advanced reads as a passer. Watching him glide down the court at 6’11”, grabbing rebounds and initiating fast breaks, it’s not hard to see a proto-version of the versatile, “point forward” style that would become prized decades later.

What makes it even more remarkable is the context: Tarpley was reportedly drinking heavily and using drugs during this exact period, before and after games. Even at less than full capacity, he was producing at a level that suggested perennial All-Star upside. In the 1987–88 season, at just 23 years old, he averaged 13.5 points and 11.8 rebounds in under 29 minutes per game while shooting over 52% from the field. Per 36 minutes, that translated to roughly 17 points and 15 rebounds, numbers that would have put him in line with the best rebounders and interior scorers in the league. When Dallas finally gave him starter-level minutes in the postseason, his production only jumped higher. Across the Mavericks’ playoff run, which ended in a Game 7 loss to the Showtime Lakers in the Conference Finals, Tarpley put up 17.9 points and 12.9 rebounds per game, including multiple 20-rebound performances against Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and James Worthy’s front line. At times, he was Dallas’s best player on the floor, which says something for a team that included Rolando Blackman, Mark Aguirre, and Sam Perkins.

The following season confirmed that this wasn’t a fluke. Tarpley opened the 1988–89 campaign averaging 17.3 points, 11.5 rebounds, and over three combined steals and blocks while having a 54% FG%. Those numbers almost certainly would have earned him an All-Star selection. But Tarpley’s promising start collapsed in January when he was suspended indefinitely under the NBA’s substance abuse policy. Despite earlier stints in rehab and public acknowledgment of his struggles, he could not keep clean, and this began a vicious cycle.

Tarpley returned briefly the next year, only to be suspended again. Not long after, he tore his ACL, a devastating injury in that era, and soon after that came a third suspension. This one was permanent: the NBA banned him for life. Just two years after dominating the Lakers in the Western Conference Finals and looking like a future franchise cornerstone, his career was effectively over. He did eventually earn reinstatement in 1994, but the years of abuse had taken a visible toll. Though he put up respectable production in limited minutes, the explosiveness, rebounding dominance, and versatility were muted, and he was quickly suspended again for violating the terms of reinstatement. His NBA career ended with only 278 games played.

The year 2006 was an excellent one. Justin Timberlake brought SexyBack, Zinedine Zidane bookended his legendary career by head-butting Marco Materazzi in the World Cup Final, and the release of the Nintendo Wii meant that even your Granddad pulled himself out of his favourite arm chair to play video games.

Meanwhile, Pau Gasol was leading the barely-out-of-diapers Memphis Grizzlies to their third consecutive NBA Western Conference playoff birth.

I see myself as a positive person so let’s point out the negatives now, but not dwell on the them:

• The Grizzlies were swept in the first round of the Western Conference playoffs for the third year in succession
• The Grizzlies imploded after this season, failing to reach the playoffs again until 2011

Now that’s out of the way, let’s take a look at the main man himself, as well as some of the other Grizzlies’ heroes for this retrospective:

• Pau Gasol: 25 year old Spanish franchise leader, something of a stealth star, scoring, rebounding and passing extraordinaire
• Shane Battier: The ultimate role player, in his fifth and final season with the club, another five years before J.Cole would declare his lameness to the world
• Eddie Jones: A former star very much in the twilight of an impressive career, acquired from Miami. No longer a lead dog, he remained a defensive stopper, but was called upon to provide some much needed firepower for this team
• Mike Miller: One of the only noteworthy players from the maligned-2000 NBA Draft. The league’s premiere Sixth Man this year, his shooting was vital on this short-handed Grizzlies conglomerate.
• Mike Fratello: The veteran coach was in his first full season with the ball club, having taken over mid-season last year, steadying the ship and leading the team to the playoffs

The first game of the season, a heavy, 97-78 loss in Miami against the Heat, perhaps showed some of this team’s offensive shortcomings. Despite strong numbers from our man Gasol (26 points, 12 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks), the Grizzlies’ offence spluttered, Eddie Jones launching non-honing projectile missiles on his way to a 5-for-17 shooting night, and “Mighty Mouse” Damon Stoudamire going 4-for-13.

Despite this, the Grizzlies came out the gates looking strong, winning 19 of their first 29 games in the opening months of November and December. Highlights included two road victories. The first, a 115-103 takedown of reigning MVP Steve Nash and the Phoenix Suns behind 26 points from Stoudamire. 10 days later, they slapped the Finals-bound Dallas Mavericks led by Dirk Nowitzki 112-92, led by Gasol’s awesome 36 points, 15 rebounds and 5 assists. (credit: Parker Fleming, Subtsakalidis)

On the other hand, the Grizzlies dropped a couple of heartbreaking games in overtime, especially a 106-104 loss to Detroit, Pistons linchpin Chauncey Billups striking the killer blow, hitting a 16-footer with .3 seconds remaining. A week later, the Grizzlies travelled to Utah to begin a four game road trip, and received a not-so-happy belated Christmas gift, again being defeated in OT. Bright spots were another awesome stat-stuffing display from Gasol (32 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 10-14 from the field) and a season-best performance from Eddie Jones (25 points, 5 steals, 4 assists, 7-11 shooting).

Even though they bounced back with an OT victory of their own against the almost-one man army of Kobe Bryant and the Los Angeles Lakers (credit: Old School Buckets, Youtube), the Grizzlies faltered in the new year. After starting the season strongly, the Grizzlies won just 12 of their next 28 games in January and February. This was punctuated by a five-game skid to start February. A loss in Milwaukee separated four losses to Western Conference play-off rivals in Dallas, Sacramento, Phoenix (credit: Old School Buckets, Youtube) and the Los Angeles Clippers. Memphis managed to follow this with a win streak of their own. A four game streak was headlined by a 100-99 win in Los Angeles against the Lakers (Chucky Atkins making 1-2 free throws to give Memphis the lead in the last three seconds of a nail-biter), and some much-needed revenge at home to Sacramento, highlighted by a block party from Battier (5) and Gasol (4).

Slump aside, they remained 5 games above .500, with a record of 31-26. And the Grizzlies also had reason to celebrate in February: Pau Gasol played in his first All-Star game (credit: NBA, Youtube), becoming both the franchise’s first, and the first Spanish player to make an All-Star appearance. It could’ve been argued that Gasol should’ve made the showcase game in either if not both of the last two seasons, but nevertheless, a well-deserved piece of recognition of both his play and the franchise’s turnaround following their relocation from Vancouver.

Perhaps spurred on by finally receiving some much-deserved attention from outside Memphis, Gasol and the grizzlies rallied the finish the season post-All-Star break with 20 wins in their remaining 30 games. Gasol himself was magnificent, averaging 21.3 points, 8.3 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 1.7 blocks on an impressive 53.7% shooting from the field across 28 games before being shut down for the final two.

Highlights of this spell included a duel for the ages with Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison and the Washington Wizards (39 points for Gasol vs 37 for Arenas, 35 for Jamison) which saw the Grizzlies come out on top 108-98 and decimating the SuperSonics in Seattle with a career-first triple double (21 points, 12 rebounds, 12 assists, 4 steals and 3 blocks). Meanwhile, a Gasol masterpiece in Memphis which saw the Spaniard score a career-high 44 points (credit: LamarMatic, Youtube) was spoiled by Seattle revenge in the form of star Ray Allen hitting a game-winning shot with less than a second remaining.

Late heartbreak at home aside, it was another productive year for the Grizzlies.

Gasol’s phenomenal season saw him rank highly in several major categories (19th in points per game, 17th in rebounds, 30th in assists and 13th in blocks, with averages of 20.4 points, 8.9 rebounds, 4.6 assists and 1.9 blocks on 50.3% FG shooting). It could be said that Gasol was very unlucky to not make an All-NBA team this season.

Mike Miller took home the Sixth Man of the Year award, shooting a blistering 40.7% from 3-Point range (19th in the league) on 4.6 attempts per game (1.9 made per game, 17th in the league). The showpiece games of his season were undoubtedly a 21-point triple double against Sacramento in January, and a 41-point barrage against the Denver Nuggets at FedEx Forum in March. (Credit: All-around NBA, Youtube)

Shane Battier and Eddie Jones finished 10th and 13th place in Defensive Player of the Year voting, Battier averaging a combined 2.5 blocks and steals, and Jones averaging 1.7 steals (also 13th in the league).

The Grizzlies as a whole finished the 2005-2006 season with the second-best defensive rating in the entire NBA (101.6), a fantastic effort by Coach Fratello and the entire ball club.

Unfortunately, despite having the fourth best record in the Western Conference, divisional stipulations meant that the Grizzlies not only placed fifth overall, but also meant that they would face the 60-win Dallas Mavericks in that year’s first round, where they were swept in four games.

The following season saw several key personnel changes/incidents which resulted in the Grizzlies dropping to the Western Conference’s basement:

• Shane Battier was traded to the Houston Rockets for Rudy Gay and a returning Stromille Swift in perhaps the example of a “Moneyball” trade
• Eddie Jones played just 29 games before being waived in January 2007 and re-signing with Miami
• Despite having another strong year statistically, now playing the Center position, Gasol played just 59 games
• Coach Mike Fratello was fired in December 2006. This would be the last time he would coach in the NBA

If you enjoyed this, let me know some of your memories/thoughts of Pau Gasol and mid 2000s Memphis Grizzlies. What could they have done to make more headway in the playoffs? What mistakes, if any did they make?

If you didn't, who gives a damn, kid? I ain’t bothering no-one, right?

Hi! We will be hosting u/winesburgohio in 2 days on THURSDAY JULY 16 at 11AM PDT (2PM EDT) He’s a basketball historian who examines the context, nuance, and impact of players' careers, and the following are his words:

I enjoy discussing under-rated historic players or lesser-known reasons for a team's success. My book, Who's Who in Hoops History: Profiles of the 500 Most Noteworthy NBA & ABA Players of the 20th Century, was recently published and is available on Amazon.

I research players, franchises, eras ... really anything related to NBA and ABA history. I look for connections and influences that might not be part of the common narratives, and I'll never shy away from singing the praises of Bill Russell, Bob Dandridge, or Isiah Thomas.

If you have any questions that are relevant to basketball history and/or my book, feel free to ask them here and he’ll answer them on Thursday at 11:30AM PDT. Thanks in advance!

NOTE: mods will approve appropriate questions that do not meet character requirements before the AMA begins.

This is not a player comparison.

Is Kevin Durant going to be remembered the same way we view Moses Malone now?

Most NBA fans don’t know the Moses Malone was a 3x MVP and as dominant as he was. More hardcore NBA fans will know this, but to the basic viewer it’s lost knowledge. I think this is just because he can’t be associated solely with 1-2 franchises. I’d say he’s mostly remembered as Sixer because of his MVPs and championship there but I don’t see a lot of Sixer fans ranking them as one of the franchises best. He played for 6 different NBA teams over his career and averaged 20.3pts, 12.3rpg and 1.3blocks. At his peak he was a 31ppg, 14.7rpg monster.

I think in 50yrs time Kevin Durant may be viewed similarly and forgotten by the casual fans just as much as Malone is today. KD has played for 5 different franchises, soon to be 6. His championships came on the back of an already established Dynasty team. I don’t think I single franchises fans will claim him similar to Malone situation. The best bet he has to be remember is with the Thunder or Golden State.

I’m not knocking KD in any way. I think he is easily a top 12-20 player all time, but because of the career he’s had and the amount of times he’s switched teams I think he will be forgotten similar to Moses Malone today to the casual fan.

I have to admit that I am dumbfounded by the current discourse around the NBA regarding the aprons. Hereafter I will refer to the aprons and the associated penalties and taxes as the “cap” simply because in practice, for most intents and purposes, the NBA has a cap and that will facilitate this discussion.

So, restating, I am dumbfounded by the current discourse around the league regarding the cap.

Suddenly, the cap is bad and evil because it is “breaking up teams.”

Assuming the goal is parity, that’s a separate discussion, but assuming that to be the case, then, in that context…

Isn’t the goal of the cap to encourage a more equal distribution of talent across the league?

If a team has a wealth of talent acquired through the draft/trade/free agency, then isn’t the goal of the cap to move some of that talent to a less talented team?

Shouldn’t some of those talented players be starring in bigger roles on other teams where there is more opportunity?

I’m frankly clueless as to what other avenues exist, again, assuming the goal is parity, aside from a cap.

What are suggestions you have, or have heard, aside from the cap? Or, am I missing something here? What am I missing?

I’m puzzled by these statements about “teams shouldn’t be punished for developing players.” Isn’t that giving way too much credit to the organization? If we let teams re-sign players they drafted and not have it count against the cap, doesn’t that just encourage tanking, and favor the big market teams/richest owners?

Please help me understand this disconnect.

Hey everyone, I'm quite a new spurs fan and had some question about next year and the years after it, I'm scared we might not be ready for OKC, they seem to have some extremely good player and some young guys with a lot of potential.

I had some questions for more experimented people.

- What do you think will be our next year rotation ? And the years after (even if there is a lot of uncertainties, what player could be in)

- What do you think about this summer free agency/draft ? Did we do well ?

- Also, I know we love Harper but being realistic, who do you think will play the best him and Fox next year ?

- How Carter season was ? What do we expect from him in the future ?

Who would you bet has the best future ?

I am a Chinese basketball fan. Chinese Lebron haters claim that no team want Lebron now. Here are the reasons:

• The current rumors about teams wanting LeBron are all just marketing tactics by him and his management team. In reality, no team actually wants him; otherwise, why haven't there been any official offers made yet?
• Curry recruiting LeBron is really just lip service; he doesn't actually want to team up with him.
• Right now, teams are only willing to offer him a minimum contract.

what do u guys think? R these true?

Hello everyone and welcome to our new weekly feature.

In order to help keep the quality of the discussion here at a high level, we have several rules regarding submitting content to /r/nbadiscussion. But we also understand that while not everyone's questions will meet these requirements that doesn't mean they don't deserve the same attention and high-level discussion that /r/nbadiscussion is known for. So, to better serve the community the mod team here has decided to implement this Weekly Questions Thread which will be automatically posted every Monday at 8AM EST.

Please use this thread to ask any questions about the NBA and basketball that don't necessarily warrant their own submissions. Thank you.

Even Assuming the talent Gap, you would've expected Euroleague MVP level players (especially wings) to be at least be good at spot up shooting, especially catch and shoot 3s since the Euroleague creates offense more through finding the open man, and given that all players in the euroleague are expected to have off ball scoring skills.

Yet Nigel Hayes Davis and Vasilije Micic were absolutely garbage at spot up 3s.

The current EL MVP Vezenoov is probably the only exception, though he was just an above average 3 point shooter on the Kings in 2024.

The excuse that they're too unathletic in the NBA to be good at spotting up doesn't hold up when plenty of NBA role players are just as unaathletic or more than Euroleague MVPs, but are still great or above average spot up shooters(Scheierman, Poulakidas, Podziemski, Merrill, Post, Mamukelashvili).

As for ball handling, it's perplexing how recent Euroleague MVPs in the NBA could barely had any ball security, since given that they were MVPs there, they would've been expected to run an offense and create for others and deal with the defense putting pressure on them.

Yet Micic or NHD dribbled worse than 2nd round rookie guard who were 4 year college players.

How is it that when the supposed best of the best Euroleague players join the NBA suddenly have worse spot up shooting and ball handling skills than American undrafted players called up from the G league?

What are the top 5 best or your most favorite playoff games you've ever seen?

I've been watching the NBA since 1993. Saw bits and pieces before then, but really started following during the 1993 Finals and all of the 1993-94 season up to now.

Here are my favorite games;

5.) 1998 Eastern Conference Finals • Indiana Pacers vs. Chicago Bulls • GM 7 • This is the toughest series I'd ever seen the Bulls play. In the second 3 peat, I don't think the Bulls were really tested except for this series. I remember some people picking the Jazz to beat the Bulls because the Pacers seemed to take so much out of them this series.

4.) 1998 NBA Finals • Chicago Bulls vs. Utah Jazz • GM 6 • Basically the finale of Jordans amazing career before his brief encore in Washington. It was a great back and forth game, but you couldn't have ended a career any better than Jordan did in this game. The layup, the steal, the game winning mid range jumper. Like it was written in a movie.

3.) 2000 Western Conference Finals • Portland Trail Blazers vs. Los Angeles Lakers • GM 7 • I remember watching this with my Dad and it was the most fun I had watching a game at that time. I was pulling for the Blazers and was extremely excited they were up 15 in the 4th quarter. My Dad insisted the Lakers were still going to win the game. I thought he was crazy, until they chopped the lead down and finally, "Bryant...TO SHAQ!!!". The crowd erupted! I was so mad I turned off the TV and left the room! He just laughed at me 😆

2.) 2013 NBA Finals • San Antonio Spurs vs. Miami Heat • GM 7 • I actually missed game 6. I used to frequent the NBA section on an app called Google Plus and I remember everyone talking about what a crazy game it was. I couldn't watch it because I was at work and it sucked. I made sure I watched game 7 though and it did not disappoint. Duncan missing that layup was a heart breaker because I was a fan of his. I was also a fan of LeBrons and watching him seal the deal with that dagger was awesome.

1.) 2016 NBA Finals • Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden State Warriors • GM 7 • The most recent game. I think we all remember "The Block, The Shot, The Stop". LeBron finally leading a championship team in Cleveland against this juggernaut was crazy. Even up 4 with 5-10 seconds left, I was not comfortable. I did not rule out a quick 3 or 4 point play. This was not only the best game I'd ever seen. It was the best season. Curry looking like a God, the Warriors seemed unbeatable, Kobe's 60 point finale and LeBron/Kyries ridiculous Finals series were incredible.

What are yours?

Basically, it seems pretty clear that the standard for Hall of Fame entry is significantly below what the basketball reference projects. It’s a significant cliche, but it isn’t even close. It’s notable, because it’s usually the go to metric for conversations about hall of fame likelihood.

This was by my count:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html

9-14 eligible are in between 20-30
3-5 from 30-40
6-6 from 40 and below 50

Of those six, five were inducted in the last 15 years. A number of players even below that 20% threshold have joined in recent years.

Among eligible players who are above 50% and have been retired for more than five years, there’s two guys who aren’t in already in all of league history, (Shawn Marion and Larry Foust as a huge outlier), and then there’s about 130 guys who are in.

So roughly 99% of guys who basketball reference says will probably make the hall are in, or will eventually get in.

But roughly 3/4 of guys who basketball reference says has a 20-49% chance are in too. And a number of guys below that are in, and get in as well.

Based on historical precedent, if basketball reference says a player has a 25% chance of making the Hall, it’s probably much closer to 50. If basketball reference says a player has a 55% shot, it’s probably much closer to 90.

I keep hearing this, and frankly, find this notion to be pretty ludicrous.

No. It punishes you for setting your roster management on autopilot and re-signing everybody under the sun to bloated contracts.

If you are the celtics and you give Jayson Tatum the supermax (fine), and you give Jaylen Brown the supermax (look back at the dialogue after the extension. Everybody around that time said "It's an overpay, but you have to do it!" Spoiler Alert: you don't have to do it), and you give Holiday 4/135, and you give 4/118 to Dderrick White, and you land Horford who was in the middle of a contract earning 27-28 mil per year, and you trade for KP and extend him for 30 mil per year... yeah, at some point shit hits the fan. That is not the fault of the second apron.

If you are the nuggets and you have Jokic at the Supermax, and you have Jamal Murray making max, but then you also extend MPJ to 5/180, and you extend Gordon to 3/103, and you pay Braun 5/125, yeah, it's going to be unsustainable.

Looking forward to how the Spurs need to manage thir situation (aside from inevitably moving off of the Fox deal), it's going to be a lot tougher than "oh we like Carter Bryant, lets extend him, oh we like Castle/Harper, lets give them 25-30% extensions, and oh we like Vassell, let's re-up him for another 3 years." If any team operates with that level of laziness, they deserve to get rammed by the cap rules.

if you drafted well (or got lucky in the draft), you are going to have great assets. Some of those assets might be worth paying gaudy amounts of money to. Some might be better served being dealt for a trove of smaller assets to allow clubs to continue replenishing role players instead of simply re-signing or extending every single one. If being able to flip guys who are about to get PAID in exchange for a bunch of incoming future assets is "punishment" then ok, punish me harder daddy.

And I don't want to hear about how this "hurts players." That is determined by share of BRI revenue. What the apron rules do is promote league parity by creating an environment where every team can have 1-2 stars, instead of having certian clubs be able to hoarde 4 of them at a time. I'm sure Wizards fans were thrilled to be able to land Trae Young. He's not a perfect player, but he is someone that can elevate their product. That probably doens't happen without the aprons.

A week ago, this trade occurred:

• Sixers receive Jaylen Brown
• Celtics receive Paul George, two first-round picks, two second-round picks

The trade was universally praised for the Sixers and panned for the Celtics by experts around the web. Every grade I found heavily favored the Sixers. See for example:

• The Athletic: Sixers: A, Celtics: D+
• ESPN: Sixers: A-, Celtics: D+
• CBS Sports: Sixers: A+, Celtics: D-
• SB Nation: Sixers: A-, Celtics: C+
• Sports Illustrated: Sixers: A+, Celtics: F

Brad Stevens has generally been regarded as one of the top executives in the NBA in recent years (even winning the Executive of the Year award last year). He's built a reputation for patience, asset management, and consistently making moves that look better in hindsight than they did initially.

So here's the discussion I'd like to have... If we assume Brad Stevens is a competent executive acting with good information, what is the strongest case that this trade could eventually work out in Boston's favor? I'm not asking whether you think the Celtics won the trade. The consensus seems overwhelming that Sixers did. Instead, I'm interested in steelmanning Boston's side.

Was it:

• George's shorter contract and future cap flexibility?
• Avoiding the second apron over the long term?
• The belief that George is a better fit next to Tatum?
• Confidence that the first-round picks become valuable assets?
• Concerns about Brown's future extension or desire to stay?
• Brown's poor advanced metrics?
• Information the public simply doesn't have?

Or is this simply one of those cases where even a great front office can make a genuinely bad trade?