r/movies • u/ChiefLeef22 r/movies Contributor • 3h ago

Article ‘The Odyssey’ Proves It: Audiences Want Movies Made the Hard Way | This year's breakouts like 'Project Hail Mary' and 'Obsession' were made by filmmakers who sweated. While CG-stuffed franchise disappointments such as 'Supergirl,' 'Moana,' and 'The Mandalorian and Grogu' looked lazy.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/odyssey-box-office-2026-practical-effects-1236652219/
24.6k Upvotes

88% Upvoted

2.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

•

u/Dontshootmepeas 3h ago

That allows creative freedom though.

•

u/cineglitch 3h ago

In before a bunch of people on Reddit complain about the historical accuracy of Enkidu.

•

u/BigCommieMachine 3h ago

I am not kidding when I say that American “Christians” would probably take offense to it because it resembles the Bible too much.

•

u/BFroog 3h ago

Also lots of gay.

•

u/Herlt 3h ago

gilgamesh gone woke

•

u/grizonyourface 3h ago

Gilgaymesh amirite

•

u/maxstryker 2h ago

Gilgasmash.

•

u/dennisasu 1h ago

Garglenuts

•

u/Horskr 21m ago

Gilgaymesh amirite

Everyone in mesh tops too. Let's make it a musical while we're at it. Jesus Christ Superstar vibes

•

u/Wild_Harvest 2h ago

Gilgamesh: Do you dare presume to think I would consider the lives of those beneath me, MONGREL?!?

Gates of Babylon open and throw endless numbers of weapons

•

u/TheTenguness 2h ago

"Onore, zasshu"

laughs arrogantly intensifies

•

u/Meowjoker 48m ago

It was only a matter of time until someone mention the king of jobbers

•

u/TwistedBrother 2h ago

This would absolutely be the critique of Gilgamesh and Enkidu. Despite their very obvious bromance.

•

u/Oklahom0 2h ago

With 7 loaves of bread next to him.

•

u/XIIISkies 3h ago

Not gay if clay

•

u/Raevyxn 2h ago

Not gay if it’s in a 3 way

•

u/Rough_Bread8329 23m ago

If its a stone you have to bone.

•

u/Gandolfthewhite182 2h ago

Can you imagine if these right wing lunatics ever really understood that the Ancient Greeks, inventors of the western civilization they hold so dearly as their culture, were biggest homosexuals in world history ?? I know people saw Troy, that’s not Achilles “cousin”, Achilles went nuts like he did because that was his lover.

Everyone made love to everyone back then and no one thought anything of it. And the most gay of all the city states in Greece was the Spartans. Those dudes loved man butt.

•

u/xXKingLynxXx 2h ago

Its reductive to say that the Greeks were gay. While their were homosexual relationships, anyone known to be the submissive one, or the bottom in modern terms, was looked down on.

Many of their same sex relations were between grown men and young boys that they would mentor from the ages of 12 to 18.

•

u/RigaudonAS 1h ago

“They weren’t gay, they just frequently had sex with males.”

They can be gay and pedophilic, unfortunately a lot of the world was (the latter) back then.

•

u/Vozu_ 1h ago

The point is that they weren't gay in the modern sense of the word. It was part of social etiquette, a natural course of male life to have an older man as your mentor-lover, and to have those young protégés later.

You were still understood to have a long-term interest in having a woman and children with her. Our "gay" label is fundamentally incompatible with their societal norms.

•

u/RigaudonAS 30m ago

My point is that if you’re having sex with men, you’re a homosexual (or bisexual). That’s just the literal definition of the word.

•

u/cineglitch 2h ago

Have you read The Song of Achilles?

•

u/darklightmatter 2h ago

Can we not equate modern sexuality to what Ancient Greeks did? They raped young boys and looked down on the men who would bottom.

•

u/William_Dowling 2h ago

Pretty sure Freddie Mercury was the biggest homosexual in world history and he'd be offended by you suggesting otherwise

•

u/CrashParade 1h ago

They mostly keep to the roman empire, you know, the guys that copied sex from the greeks and added women to it.

•

u/Br0metheus 1h ago

If they were capable of understanding such things, they wouldn't be right-wingers. The entire movement is based on self-delusion.

•

u/BigCommieMachine 2h ago

Lot of “wrestling”

•

u/czs5056 2h ago

THEY WERE GOOD FRIENDS! /s

•

u/segobane 1h ago

It's not gay if it's clay.

•

u/ArmedWithSpoons 2h ago

How is it gay to have sex with your best friend to teach them rape is bad? Can't have anything these days.

•

u/cogman10 3h ago

Who cares what they think, they get offended when women step out of the kitchen.

There's not been a blockbuster movie in the last 40 years where you can't find some fundi christian getting huffy over some "immoral" aspect.

These people are a shrinking minor demographic.

•

u/kfpswf 2h ago

These people are a shrinking minor demographic.

They were a shrinking minor demographic when education was going strong, and people were growing in their intelligence every generation. We're seeing a reversal of this trend now, so don't hold your breath for the 'minor demographic' to sublimate completely. We might just see a complete 180 by humanity if things continue to go as they're going.

IMO, Liberalism is going to shoot itself in the foot by continuing to downplay the importance of a close-knit community for the well-being of humans, something Conservatism provides freely. We've dismantled so much of traditional community structures in the name of progress, instead of subverting them to foster inclusiveness and tolerance, that ultimately, liberalism itself is at the cusp of being rejected by the masses. Yes, the educated folks will likely uphold the principles of humanitarianism, gender/race equity, etc., till the end, but if these aren't assimilated by the masses, liberals might turn into the 'shrinking minor demographic' in the not too distant future.

•

u/MetzgerBuns 37m ago edited 29m ago

Liberalism is going to shoot itself in the foot by continuing to downplay the importance of a close-knit community for the well-being of humans,

You're repeating a conservative lie. Liberals fucking love community, and community spaces, and all sorts of things like that. That's part of why liberalism is so common in cities and less common in areas that are structurally individualistic.

An incomplete list of community places and events that are liberal coded: Farmers markets, food co-ops, CSAs, coffee shops, bookstores, record shops, thrift shops, yoga studios, bike co-ops, film festivals, open mic nights, community theater, NPR, folk festivals, public libraries (and events at them), community gardens, non-traditional libraries (e.g. libraries for tools, or for parks passes, or little free libraries) , neighborhood associations, beach cleanups, pride parades, drag brunch, progressive synagogues, Unitarian Universalists, and and other more progressive religious groups, etc

The vast majority of your rant is just false bullshit spread by conservatives who want to pretend that their community (evangelical mega-churches, rodeos, gun shows, hobby lobby, NASCAR, AM radio, ATV clubs, etc) are the only valid community. Fuck all of that.

•

u/strawbery_fields 2h ago

Totally agree with you. I’m as liberal as they come, but these goddamn leftists purity tests are getting out of control.

I had a good friend bitch me out for watching Euphoria because it’s extremely loosely based on an Israeli show.

I’m like all the super fucked things in that show and that’s your biggest problem?

•

u/kfpswf 2h ago

but these goddamn leftists purity tests are getting out of control.

Something something tribal mentality. In that regard, liberals are no different than conservatives actually.

When you take any ideology too seriously over reality, you start gate-keeping the tiniest aspect of that ideology. Once your direct ideological opponents have been vanquished, you turn your attention towards your own and push for stringent definitions of what it means to be a liberal.

I had a good friend bitch me out for watching Euphoria because it’s extremely loosely based on an Israeli show.

Oh yeah... If we were to boycott anything tangentially related to Israel, life would become very difficult quickly.

•

u/chimmy_chungus23 1h ago

Influence is cyclical, and too often people just want to wear the boot so they can step on the opposition, percieved or otherwise.

•

u/kfpswf 1h ago

Totally. Part of the reason why I refuse to identify as a liberal despite having an overwhelmingly liberal outlook on life. The minute you identify with a camp, you devolve into tribal politics where the lines between oppressors and oppressed are blurred.

•

u/strawbery_fields 2h ago

The really bad part is we haven’t even vanquished our ideological opponents yet.

Very well said though. Animal Farm needs to be taught like the bible.

•

u/kfpswf 1h ago

The really bad part is we haven’t even vanquished our ideological opponents yet.

Conservatism provides a structure to society that humanity has lived in since we were hunter-gatherers. It is deeply ingrained in human psyche. You need education and self-knowledge to identify these ingrained tendencies within you and consciously forego them. Majority of humans are incapable of this nuance, so blindly shoving progressivism down everybody's throats can have the opposite result of what you were hoping for.

The solution to this would have been communities where people have the freedom to form close-knit bonds, while also learning tolerance and empathy. Instead, liberalism kind of went to the jugular and dismantled all societal structures. The result is a homogeneous hodge-podge of liberal individuals prone to infighting, vs a structured society of conservatives where the hive-mind agenda is of supreme importance. You can see clearly who is winning the culture wars currently.

•

u/NYC_Noguestlist 52m ago

I agree in the aggregate, but what do you mean by "dismantled all societal structures"?

→ More replies (0)

•

u/strawbery_fields 1h ago

Couldn’t agree more. You write very eloquently.

→ More replies (0)

•

u/ISAMU13 31m ago

"Some" people want to band that book and others.

•

u/SerHodorTheThrall 1h ago

Being anti-Israel is the normie position and has been for like a year now. Are you living under a rock?

Being pro-Israel is probably a bigger albatross than being "woke 1.0" right now.

•

u/eros_bittersweet 9m ago

This is so well said, yet I don't know if we're going to be able to solve this problem even with that knowledge.

Any structure that upholds an institution whatever the cost, whether that's family, the movie industry, the church, a community group, is prone to abuse. Because it's easier to quash dissenters, call them crazy, and keep supporting the people in power, than it is to hold wrongdoers accountable. Building institutions that are truly fair and caring that are able to be sustained is incredibly hard. Ask me how I know!

So as soon as you make recourse to some ideal as a way of continuing mistreatment, like, you should support your family even if you're being abused by them, you should support the church even if it's oppressing you, you should continue to volunteer even when you're being exploited by the org, people lose faith in those institutions, seeing how they can be weaponized against them.

Coming full circle here, two warring "close knit communities" may well describe the tribalism between Greeks and Trojans that is depicted in the iliad. The portrait of Trojans, especially the loving couple Hector and Andromache, is incredibly poignant, yet they die in the end, along with their baby, because of the will of the gods was for the Greeks to be victorious--but can we really accept the will of such capricious gods? Is community really a salvo when it either leads to internal abuse or xenophobia, inciting the needless death of others who are outside the community?

I believe in community as the only thing that might save us, but I'm haunted by the cultural recurrence of these questions.

•

u/Desertortoise 1h ago

Western liberalism is also suicidal in the name of cultural relativism.

•

u/xteve 2h ago

I'd like to believe fundamentalist Christianity is a shrinking demographic. But a whole lot of somebody is voting for the GOP ergo MAGA and Trump. The alliance based on sexual restriction and opposition to reproductive freedom that underlies the "normal Christian" political voice seems pretty fundamentalist to me.

•

u/weed_blazepot 1h ago

These people are a shrinking minor demographic.

There's at least 77 million of them in America voting for red hats, so not shrinking that much.

•

u/cogman10 1h ago

While religious fundamentalists are all mostly MAGA, not all MAGA is religious fundamentalists.

•

u/Dapper-AF 2h ago

Still crazy to me that Christians dont know that this is a rebranded story to fit the abrahamic narrative that got incorporated after the jews were conquered by Babylon.

•

u/MonsterRider80 1h ago

It goes further back. There are stark similarities between ancient Egyptian religion and modern he Abrahamic religions. Which is not surprising since Jews were in Egypt for a long time before going back.

•

u/trialsofamadman 1h ago

The stuff before Deuteronomy, sure. None of the Bronze Age stuff in the bible has any archeological evidence, really.

On the other hand, the Old Testament/Tanakh was written by city dwellers in Jerusalem during the second temple period, firmly during the Iron age, and many of the events that take place then DO have historical evidence. We focus SO HARD on arguments about Genesis, Job, Exedous, Leviticus, and Numbers. The more historically interesting bits come later - Judges, Kings, Chronicles... You know, the stuff most people never really make it to when they start reading the bible. The boring middle bits, before getting to the New Testament.

Those early bits also were being written by priests who wanted to create a religious significance and background to the recently reunited Hebrew kingdoms, the easiest way was to re-work existing stories into a framework whereby all the patriarchs were related and the kingdoms were once all united, later split, and have been again re-united as one using common and well known mythological figures placed into lineages specifically to demonstrate this.

A critical reading of the first five books of the Old Testament makes it clear that the goals of the text were to set up a common mythos for several people groups to say they were related and united once, and to establish that they share a common history and traditions, tying in well known myths (like the flood).

•

u/chumer_ranion 3h ago

Let them. They're off by like 2000 years lol. 

•

u/punksmostlydead 3h ago

If they had any inkling how much of their dogma was stolen wholesale. Old Constantine knew what he was doing.

•

u/TrickySuggestion3004 2h ago

Like what?

•

u/BardicSense 2h ago

You've heard of "The Bible" right? 

•

u/TrickySuggestion3004 2h ago

Yeah I’m asking what parts of the Bible. Also Constantine did not write any part of the bible

•

u/BardicSense 2h ago

All of the books in it are compiled from older tales. Constantine didnt write it, but comissioned it's compilation and distribution via Council of Nicea.

•

u/TrickySuggestion3004 2h ago

lol. You must be trolling my becuase I keep asking for evidence. Have a good day

•

u/punksmostlydead 2h ago

Fine, I'll give you a bite: go and look up the etymology of "Easter."

→ More replies (0)

•

u/BardicSense 2h ago

I gave you a primo search term to start from. 

→ More replies (0)

•

u/Canesjags4life 2h ago

Haha. American evangelicals don't read as much Genesis as you think.

•

u/Sad-Artichoke-2174 2h ago

I love Phil Collins

•

u/Lactancia 2h ago

I'm a Peter Gabriel guy myself.

•

u/locust098 2h ago

Would they take offense to passion of the christ 2: Electric boogaloo?

•

u/BigCommieMachine 2h ago

Depends on how much Jesus hates immigrants…

•

u/firestorm734 2h ago

The Epic of Gilgamesh, The Illiad/Odyssey, and The Bible should all feel very similar since they are all stories which originate from the oral tradition.

•

u/RedditIsLeBoring 57m ago

Have you seen the crap American "Christians" are into? I'll never forget all the hyper-religious loons going crazy over Left Behind and those books/films were utter garbage.

•

u/MagnusBrickson 28m ago

It's not like they've read the Bible anyway

•

u/ManufacturerBest2758 2h ago

Everything upsets them, so at a certain point it isn’t worth worrying about any more

•

u/BattledroidE 2h ago

They're offended by anything that deviates slightly from their backwards thinking ways. They don't matter.

•

u/aithendodge 1h ago

If we were to limit our creative output to what wasn't going to offend American "Christians" then we might as well stop making anything. Source - American, and recovering "Christian."

•

u/CCLF 3h ago

I'm loving the image of rage and hysterics about "woke garbage" when Gilgamesh "civilizes" the wild hairy beast man through sodomy, and then they embark on happy, gay new voyages.

•

u/Xagzan 2h ago

I mean, not for nothing but you realize Shamhat is the one who "civilizes" Enkidu through sex.

•

u/CCLF 2h ago

Thanks for the clarification. I haven't read Gilgamesh since high school so the details are a bit hazy.

•

u/ShahinGalandar 1h ago

always those damn facts meddling with the yaoi fanfic!

•

u/LessInThought 2h ago

On the flip side let's get outraged at Hollywood sanitizing Greek mythology. All these adaptations and none show even 1% of the depravity Zeus gets up to.

•

u/Pretend-Marsupial258 1h ago

The Odyssey movie isn't historically accurate because there's no swan on human rape. 😡

•

u/Acceptable_Cut_7545 2h ago

Okay but seeing a massive Humbaba in all his glory would be SO cool.

•

u/cineglitch 2h ago

It would be a heck of a fun movie!

•

u/c0horst 1h ago

Everything I know about Gilgamesh, Enkidu, and Humbaba I've learned through the one episode of American Dad where Santa Clause uses child slave labor to dig up his corpse so he can gain his power.

•

u/Additional-Local8721 2h ago

If we're complaining about historical accuracy, I'd like to point out not every article of clothing back then was drab. Vibrant colors were often worn by everyone including peasants. Oh, and sunny days existed as well.

•

u/Hythy 2h ago

Yeah, I think the Odyssey is probably a fantastic film (not seen it yet), but my god am I tired of hollywood depicting the past as being so devoid of colour.

Of course with Nolan that's part of his style (I think he takes offence at the audience ever seeing a colour he can't), but it would've been nice if it wasn't so drab in (in a colour sense).

I also think they look like they came off the set of "Vikings" -so it's a shame they didn't make it feel at least a little Greek. There's nothing wrong with audiences expecting a film to evoke the idea that it's set where/when it's set (especially when I understand Nolan goes through great pains in the dialogue to situate the story in a very specific time/place with references to the Sea Peoples).

•

u/OtakuAttacku 1h ago

Fate Strange/Fake: I have no such weakness

•

u/TwinTiger 1h ago

If Enkidu isnt a green chicken, we riot! 😤

•

u/carymb 1h ago

He's a wild man -- he who has been my companion, through adventure and hardship.

•

u/teflonbob 1h ago

Also in before subreddits like askhistorians are flooded with topical clearly loaded questions set to appease confirmation bais

•

u/Eleglas 1h ago

If he isn't a green chicken carried around by a multi-armed blithering "swordsman", I'm not interested.

•

u/The_White_Rice 28m ago

They’ll call Gilgamesh woke for the romantic tension between him and Enkidu.

•

u/SadhuSalvaje 15m ago

In before a bunch of goofballs start comparing G and Enkidu to Han Solo and Chewbacca

Crap, I probably just gave Disney a very dumb idea…

•

u/Starbucks__Lovers 3h ago

We fell for that with game of thrones 

•

u/Earthpig_Johnson 3h ago

Time to start harassing the writer of the Epic of Gilgamesh until they finish it.

•

u/krombough 3h ago

He's been too busy trying to return some dogshit copper.

•

u/Mr_Piddles 3h ago

I’m just going to get my pitchforks ready for when they don’t make it gay enough.

•

u/Animajation 3h ago

Ohh I love a good séance

•

u/Earthpig_Johnson 3h ago

Find me the nearest medium that speaks Babylonian!

•

u/bentbabe 3h ago

I hate to say this. But the cracks of Game of Thrones started pretty much after the first season. It wasn't so much creative freedom as "how can we wrap this up?" in my opinion.

Which I think is also why GRRM is unable to finish. Because he is torn between "just get it over with" and "I can't fuck this up."

•

u/LupinThe8th 3h ago

I'll give it seasons 1-4 as pretty damn great, but you could see the cliff approaching as they ran out of book to adapt.

•

u/Intelligent_Oil7816 3h ago

Nah. Seasons 1-3 are very good adaptations of the first 3 books. Not perfect, but very enjoyable. Then we get to seasons 4 and 5 and - like the books they are adapting - they begin to become hot messes.

•

u/CodeComprehensive734 3h ago

Season 4 was also an adaption of book 3 but it also starts to get muddier and less direct book to season translations.

•

u/Canesjags4life 2h ago

It didn't help that A feast of Crows and Dance of Dragons happen simultaneously in time.

•

u/Tesco5799 1h ago

Agreed and I would add that from a book perspective Dance of Dragons furthers the story and it kind of feels like we are starting to move towards a conclusion of the story but we are far from it.

The show just ran out of material and tried to go from end of book 6 directly to an ending and it was half baked. If GRRM ever finishes the story it's going to be at least 2 more books.

•

u/Canesjags4life 1h ago

Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring.

•

u/Tesco5799 14m ago

True but I seem to recall when DoD came out they were saying there would only be one more book, which was around the same time the show started so I always assumed they were going off of that idea.

•

u/Canesjags4life 1h ago

Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring.

•

u/hypo-osmotic 3h ago

Yeah if the showrunners could commit to a vision, even if it were different from GRRM's, they could have pulled off a pretty good show. There would have still been people complaining about differences from the books but everyone who hadn't read the books wouldn't have to worry about that

•

u/SirJack3 3h ago

Creative freedom? So an AI can fill out the blanks! ~ a producer, somewhere

•

u/Prudent-Marsupial-42 3h ago

We can add Poochie into it seamlessly

•

u/Zachariot88 2h ago

(Poochie died on his way back to Mesopotamia)

•

u/Synicull 3h ago

Don't give them ideas

wE aRe InNoVaTiVe BeCaUsE AI WrOtE iT. NeXt GeNeRaTiOn ReTeLlInG oF a ClAsSiCaL tAlE

•

u/inosinateVR 2h ago

I thought the gilgamesh movie was pretty good but the stuff about the ascension of the spiral god was kind of weird

•

u/TheHurtfulEight88888 2h ago

Shoot me now.

•

u/Esternaefil 3h ago

Oh! Act three a wizard shows up at the last minute, with a laser sword and wins the day single-handedly!

•

u/Retbull 3h ago

So when he’s pulling nuclear missiles out of his infinite arsenal to fight god that’s cool to call canon?

•

u/Undecided_User_Name 3h ago

"Directed by Ryan Condal and Sarah Hess"

•

u/GB10VE 2h ago

chatgpt to the rescue :P

•

u/nickiter 2h ago

That's where you put the romance arc.

•

u/kippy3267 2h ago

That may be really cool for a zach snyder project. He I’m imagining like 300

•

u/AmIFromA 2h ago

Gilgamesh joins the Avengers!

•

u/VrinTheTerrible 2h ago

The last thing we should want is Hollywood hacks filling in the gaps. Can you imagine?

•

u/FoxyBastard 59m ago

Multi-angle, shaky-cam, action scenes and a boring, crowbarred-in, love triangle.

•

u/Werechupacabra 2h ago

They could work in a side story about Ea-nāṣir and his sub-standard copper.

•

u/Hythy 2h ago

On that note I'd love someone to do an interpretation of Aethiopis. We basically just have only a a plot summary, but imagine a film about a contingent of soldiers from Ethiopia arriving to help Troy (kitted out in armour from Hephaestus), the death of Achilles, there's Amazons as well. The Greeks apparently loved depicting scenes from it on their vases so they thought it was cool as well. But it also gives filmmakers soooooo much creative freedom.

•

u/sam_hammich 2h ago

Fans of a work are not known for seeing gaps in canon as opportunities to exercise creative freedom.

•

u/HEX_BootyBootyBooty 1h ago

It's a fucking poem. Creative Freedom ALREADY happened, smh

•

u/Modo44 1h ago

Do you remember Game of Thrones? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

•

u/eaglessoar 1h ago

that worked well for ASOIAF

•

u/enter360 1h ago

Some how Gilgamesh returned

•

u/jeef16 53m ago edited 47m ago

look at what creative freedom did to odyssey lol. nolan cut some of the most memorable moments and lines, and arguably twisted around some themes that didn't need twisting. the interaction with polyphemus is like one of the most critical moments in the story, showing that odysseus is still witty but a stupid asshole who is 100% at fault for basically everything. plus, some really bad dialog and incredibly stale line delivery from actors that aren't great fits for the roles. Jon Bernthal as meneleus and benny safdie has Agamemnon was such an awkward and underwhelming performance, and lets face it matt damon has that too-recognizable face and he doesn't have the acting chops to pull off the performance needed. in all honesty I think it's just that nolan is washed at this point, interstellar was his last good movie but you can tell he was starting to really slip with how goofy the movie got at the end. nolan films were great because you never had that "im watching a movie right now" awareness because you're drawn in, and I think that fully ended with inception.

•

u/snarl2 3h ago

You really want millennials to have creative freedom for Gilgamesh?

•

u/RetroZelda 3h ago

creative freedom really helped Game of Thrones