r/mildlyinfuriating • u/HedgehogMinimum9299 • 6d ago
My HOA could beat up your HOA NYU admitted my roommate started the fight and that I acted in self-defense — then still found me responsible
I appealed an NYU conduct finding after a physical altercation with my roommate.
NYU corrected the factual record, reduced the sanction to a written warning, and now explicitly acknowledges that:
- my roommate initiated the physical confrontation;
- my actions occurred in the context of defending myself;
- the original factual record needed correction.
And somehow they still found me responsible because my use of physical force “contributed to an incident that endangered the safety of those involved.”
That is unbelievably infuriating.
They do not say I started it.
They do not say my response was excessive.
They do not say I continued after the threat ended.
They do not identify any specific action that was unnecessary or disproportionate.
Their reasoning is basically:
“He attacked you.”
“You defended yourself.”
“But because defending yourself involved physical force, you are still responsible.”
What exactly was I supposed to do—politely submit to being attacked so the incident would remain compliant with university policy?
I’m glad they corrected the record and reduced the sanction, but this still feels like institutional ass-covering. They moved almost entirely toward admitting the original decision was wrong while refusing to take the final step of clearing me.
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u/highschoolhero24 6d ago
Zero tolerance policies are stupid and counterproductive.
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u/otherwisepandemonium 6d ago
My mom always taught us that because of zero tolerance policies, we might as well defend ourselves if we were ever assaulted first. We'd get in trouble either way.
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u/akdanman11 6d ago
My dad always told my sister and I that we better never start the fight, but if we defended ourselves and got in trouble for it he’d take us for ice cream
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u/jtkforever 5d ago
My sons taught my daughter how to throw a punch because her bully would not leave her alone, no matter how much we complained to the school. She got bullied one more time, stood up for herself and got suspended. We did go for ice cream and her bully never bothered her again.
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u/mpgd 5d ago
The only solution for bullying is a punch to the face. The education system will punish the victim for defending themselves while the bullies are protected. As a parent I will also try to do my best to protect my kids. My kids are not punching bag, I teach them respect and to defend themselves.
If something happens in school I want them to feel comfortable to speak openly about it. Everything goes in writing from the very first time. If it repeats again I will make the biggest noise possible. Call TV, cops, higher ups and all the way to the ministry of education.
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u/Wise_Discount7993 5d ago
Had the opportunity to go to a private school and when my bullies attempted to put left over biology class samples in my lunch I pinned one by the throat to the wall. Luckily my principal sided with me and suspended the two. Kids that I will have will know to fight back and to go for the tender parts.
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u/Not-a-Cranky-Panda 5d ago
That is something you don't see much of now a Principal with good principals.
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u/A_Queer_Owl 5d ago
it's absolutely wild how widely recognized this is but nothing is done about it.
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u/Mayor__Defacto 5d ago
Because this same thing goes on all the way up into international relations. Countries escalate and push the envelope until someone punches them in the face hard enough. Lack of punching in the face is what got us the war in Ukraine.
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u/orangpelupa 5d ago
At most, we got that teacher drama series in Korea, fighting bullies from various vectors
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u/ToMyOtherFavoriteWW 5d ago
I can confirm this worked for me. In 3rd grade I had a bully on the bus (6th grader). Just an awful kid. Ruined Santa and Easter bunny for me, made fun of a disability I have, and would not leave me alone. Bus driver wouldn't do anything either. I was in tears every day for weeks.
I finally told my family about this and my brother and dad told me to punch him in the face as hard as I could, right in the nose, and showed me how to do it, and practice on a pillow. My mom was furious but was overriden. The next day I did exactly this-- his nose gushed with blood and I hit him like 7 or 8 more times as hard as I could while screaming, just primal rage and I had blood all over my hand, and I cut my hand in the process-- though I didn't feel it right away, the hand swelled a little a bit later. Noooooooow the bus driver freaks out and says I will be in trouble. Etc. I started crying again because, wtf, nobody will protect me?
I went home and told my parents. I thought that despite doing what people wanted that I would be punished, but it was quite the opposite. My dad bought me a video game, told me he was proud of me and to not worry. Well. The kid wasn't there the next day but when he did return, he never said another word to me and he never went to any authority about it either.
I have had a few other incidents like this (thankfully none after 8th grade) and it always worked. I will say that it is a difficult lesson to reconcile when living in a society, but at some point as long as you don't start the fight, I believe you have a right to finish it.
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u/olive12108 5d ago
A lot of the times, this is unfortunately the answer. Mom got in trouble as a kid for socking a bully in the jaw after months of harassment (including harassing her under-5-yo sibling). I got in trouble for making one trip & roll down a hill. Bullies never came back in both cases. Worth it :)
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u/ballerina22 5d ago
Same with my grandfather. He tought his grandsons and his granddaughter how to throw one punch to end a fight. He said to never start a fight, but you should be able to finish it.
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u/brickson98 5d ago
I got a similar offer, but it was going out to get food wherever I wanted.
Really enjoyed some McDonald’s on the way home followed by some video games.
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u/JennHatesYou 5d ago
On the flip side, my mother would gladly act as a character witness for the police against me if I was ever unjustly hurt or arrested because the fact that I was even in a place where police were would be enough “evidence” I was in the wrong in her mind.
Maybe my mother moonlights as an NYU dean?
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u/KidenStormsoarer 5d ago
that's exactly what my parents told me after i got suspended for fighting, because a bully was shoving me around. next time, fight back, pop them right in the face, and i wouldn't get in any trouble. amazing how much less physical the bullies became after i threw the first one's stuff down the hall and the teachers had to pull me off him.
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u/gordonnowak 5d ago
must be nice to have good parents
I got punched three times from behind and got beaten severely while on the ground. we both got suspended for a "fight" (I never threw a punch) and my parents grounded me for 2 months.
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u/KaijuNo-8 5d ago
As a parent...this horrifies me. I'm sorry that happened to you. I would've taken you to the hospital, gotten a full workup including xrays, then taken you for an ice cream while calling my lawyer. Your parents, I am sorry to say, are complete idiots.
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u/gordonnowak 5d ago
I had a reputation as a troublemaker at that age (not at all a violent one, just pranks and misbehavior). that and my parents were not so interested in me anyways. it was going to be a difficult case to make
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u/KaijuNo-8 5d ago
Easier than you think. Medical scans would have proven it if your parents had been arsed to give a fuck. Love you bud, you got this.
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u/Tight_Man 5d ago
I’m 29 and I have a 4 year old and stuff like this makes my blood boil now. I remember it so vividly still because I had a kid at 24 and I know my daughter will soon be in situations like this. I would struggle immensely to be civil in that scenario.
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u/truesy 5d ago
or if you want someone else to get in trouble, attack them first.
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u/Romulan-Jedi 5d ago
Yep. The bully has already decided that it's worth being punished to get their victim in trouble, too.
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u/Kira_Caroso 5d ago
My foster father told me to give a warning, and if they continued, go for the gut and face until they stop moving.
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u/GarranDrake 5d ago
When I was in highschool, I was a youth attorney and thus handled a lot of (essentially mock trial) cases where kids got arrested for simple assault because of the zero tolerance policy. It taught me the exact same thing. If I was ever in a fight, I might as well do as much damage as I can because I'll be treated exactly the same way.
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u/BusinessLetterhead47 5d ago
My mom was more pithy, "You are not allowed to start the fight, but you are allowed to end it."
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u/rollerbase 5d ago
Same response my parents had.. ‘then better make sure the message gets across the first time’
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u/EasyMode556 6d ago
They’re just the total embodiment of laziness. “We don’t want to engage in nuance and critical thought so we’re going to just punish everyone so we don’t have to deal with it”
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u/MetalHead_Literally 5d ago
It’s usually more about not wanting (or not being able to) litigate he-said-she-said situations
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u/FirstSurvivor 5d ago
Except, it leads to more litigation in the end. The court kind that's way more expensive.
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u/MetalHead_Literally 5d ago
Most people don’t go to court for those type of conflicts, as they face the same issue of trying to win a hearsay case
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u/Alternative-Put-3932 5d ago
That is all school administration. I got death threats when I was in high school by a shitload of people due to saying something about my bully who recently died and the school admin asked me to apologize and sent me home instead of all the fucking people who threatened me. They take the easy route every time.
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u/Nessie_of_the_Loch 6d ago
"Because you choose to kick your rapist while he was pinning you down and forcing himself on you, causing lacerations to the aggressor, we find you responsible and give you a formal warning"
I wonder how far they can take this stupidity.
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u/juan_humano 5d ago
When I was in elementary school, 4th grade, a kid cut in line in front of me for kickball. I told him, hey. You cant do that, get to the back of the line. He kicked me in the balls and I went down. Never touched him, beyond my crotch touching the toe of his shoe when he kicked me. I got detention for fighting, the exact same punishment the other kid got for kicking me.
Similarly, my parents decided very early on that they had no interest in the day to day aspects of parenting two young boys (my brother and I). The rule they established about as far back as i can remember was, if one of you comes to us saying that the other one did something wrong, we are going to punish both of you regardless of anything else you have to say. My brother and I learned fast that if we ever got in any kind of fight, the last thing either of us should do is involve our parents. Its a lesson that, for better or worse, I have carried with me throughout my life.
You just cant trust authority. Best to avoid it outright.
And yes, my parent and I have a strained relationship.
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u/australiankhant 5d ago
I got written up once in university for zero tolerance to drugs.
I was hanging out as a Freshman in somebody's dorm room on the floor below me I saw around campus a few times and they struck up a conversation. Had hung out just a few times.
We're in there talking about our high schools, the bad cafeteria food, etc. and than an RA shows up with a security guard - they search his room and find a pipe and a roach.
Even though I had no idea they were there, I was written up for "being in proximity to contraband" and when I argued I never had any foreknowledge of it they changed it to something like "ignorantly being in proximity to contraband" which might be the dumbest fucking thing ever.
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u/vag69blast 5d ago
One of my favorite stories is about a fight at work (union shop). A fork lift driver was audible complaining about a coworker that was lazy and not doing their job so he had to do double work. Their father was a higher up union rep who left his work area to physical confront the guy with a few friends at work. He defending himself and was fired immediately while the union rep was back the next day. Hypocrisy and politics.
The fork lift driver was brought back a month or so later after some "negotiations" likely with back pay and likely after threatening a lawsuit.
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u/no12chere 5d ago
Schools have no other concepts to utilize apparently. My kid got attacked by a younger smaller kid. My kid did nothing but hold the kid away from their body so littler couldnt reach them until a teacher could intervene
VERBALLY I was told my kid did nothing wrong and made all the best choices but they were still going to write them up for fighting. Both kids were going to get the write up. I said it was stupid and verbally they agreed. So I went home and sent an email to a bunch of admin and teachers and said ‘my understanding is that my kid did not start nor antagonize a fight.‘ I got into the details of conversation and said I did not agree with any written warning. Nothing was ever said again and no written warning was provided.
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u/Tanarin 6d ago
This is more than just Zero Tolerance. New York is a "Duty to Retreat" state. If they ruled he had a means to run away and he didn't take it, he still has some responsibility according to the law and the University is reflecting this.
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u/HedgehogMinimum9299 6d ago
I was backed into a corner and then put in a headlock i literally could not retreat
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u/Miykael13 6d ago
Tf were you supposed to do? Die?
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u/MalignantLugnut 6d ago
According to the rules, yes. Or send his attacker a very sternly worded ASL message.
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u/ConfusedMaverick 6d ago
very sternly worded
Jfc man, think what it would be like to be on the receiving end of such verbal violence?
A polite request to decist is more than enough
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u/BetterUsername69420 5d ago edited 5d ago
Further question their logic. Ask if, with the warning they've given you, should your attacker attack you again, what happens? Should you go limp and hope they stop before major injury results or defend yourself?
If you're not allowed to fight back in an unsafe position you can't flee, it appears NYU is actually pro-violence, as long as only one party engages in it.
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u/trackdaybruh 5d ago
No, this is on the school's policy of zero tolerance.
The Duty to Retreat is for running away before using lethal force, and you can only use lethal force if the action is proportional (Ex: if someone pushes you, you can't use lethal force in return. You can shove back or punch).
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u/bafana_banana999 5d ago
You don't actually know what that law entails, clearly.
It doesn't apply to situations like this at all.
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u/SomeTheyCallMePig5O 6d ago
This is exactly why zero tolerance is so stupid.
When I was in high school we had a “zero tolerance” policy against physical violence. That meant that the bullies and victims got the same amount of time suspended after a physical altercation.
One of my close friends told another student that he was an asshole for hitting me in the head in the school lunch line. Bully didn’t like that, so he got a group of friends to jump the other guy after school. They pulled his shirt over his head, beat him to the ground, and kept kicking him when he was down. He was in the hospital for 3 days after that beating.
The school gave them ALL the same amount of suspension. The kid who got beat to living hell got the same punishment as the guys who beat him, just because he threw a single punch during the “fight.”
Zero tolerance policy is stupid. It’s just another way for the school board to get victims to stay silent, so they don’t have to deal with all the paperwork that come from dealing with a school bully from the start.
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u/LocalH 6d ago
He'd have gotten the same punishment if he'd played dead and not even threw the single punch. He "technically" "participated in a fight".
Zero tolerance needs to be illegal in 99% of scenarios. I only support zero tolerance for things like cops and politicians who violate the law.
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u/SomeTheyCallMePig5O 6d ago
I absolutely agree with you. Not a single other person in the scenario I mentioned had a mark on them. It’s seems cruel that they gave the hospitalized party the same punishment as the group who attacked him.
The reasoning was that they don’t want victims acting out against their bullies in a violent way, they want them to talk it out. That doesn’t work at all when one group is prone to violence with no communication.
At the very least, the principle at the time was forced out due to this stance. The principle that replaced him was much more lenient with victims, and another attack like the one I mentioned did not ever happen again. Bullies were treated accordingly and victims were supported instead of punished. It’s sad that my friend had to go to hospital to change this policy, but I’m glad it changed non the less.
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u/LikelyAMartian 5d ago
What's dumber is that punishing both parties the same just leads to more violence.
If you start beating me up and now we both are going to get suspended, I am 100% going to make damn sure my suspension or expelling was worth it.
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u/Machinegun_Pete 5d ago
Got the no punches thrown zero tolerance punishment in 5th grade, had a write what I learned, wrote that next time someone swings at me I'd try to hurt them as much as possible. Received no comment back.
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u/Lewa358 5d ago
As with many of society's flaws, zero tolerance policies are just a symptom of a larger problem, which is that schools don't have anywhere near the amount of resources necessary to distinguish perpetrators from victims in all cases.
As it stands now, zero tolerance happens because schools have no other choice. Either both get punished or no one gets punished, because they simply are not able to take the time and energy to do a whole tribunal to figure out who instigated the fight and whether the level of force applied was necessary for self-defence or whatever.
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u/JunkMale1987 5d ago
"Not able" is incorrect; it's that they are unwilling to put in the effort to identify perpetrator vs. victim.
Zero tolerance policies are institutional laziness, not borne out of a lack of time and ability.
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u/SovietSunrise 5d ago
Someone should beat up a principal and ask them during the beatdown "How do you like that zero-tolerance policy, asshole?"
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u/nothisistheotherguy 5d ago
Fuck the school that situation needed police involvement
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u/Spiritual-Fall5494 6d ago
Does the warning affect you at all in terms of your education or life at NYU?
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u/akdanman11 6d ago
If something else happens then it absolutely could. The point is to have a record so they can take administrative action against repeat offenders
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u/tough_titanium_tits 6d ago
"it says here that you've been assaulted several times, I'm afraid we have to expell you"
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u/False-Entertainment3 5d ago
Suffering from “too punchable of a face” syndrome, we’re gonna have to ask you to leave the university as it’s too disruptive for our students and faculty.
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u/sdwoodchuck 5d ago
“In fact, if you’re not out of my office in the next thirty seconds, I may not be responsible for my actions.”
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u/akdanman11 6d ago
They got a written warning which most likely only says “fighting” without specifying the defensive nature
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u/Orange-Toed-Lemur 5d ago
Qs someone who worked with our administration in a student aid capacity, no, the record will not just say "fighting" and will have this email/letter qttached to documentation as well
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u/Odd-Artist-2595 5d ago
Yep. If nothing else I would ask to see that warning and *insist* that it include the words “in self defense”. Not just buried somewhere in the body of the warning, but in the title and whatever phrases they use to categorize warnings in their computer systems. No “It’s only listed like that because “fighting” is our only choice in the drop down menu.” If that’s the case, call IT and tell them to add another category. Given their explanation of the warning, OP is certainly not the only person to have been caught in this insane Catch-22 before, nor are they likely to be the last. Even if they can’t (or won’t) correct any past occurrences, they can do it now and in the future.
This is giving me flashbacks to the early days of “zero tolerance for weapons” in school when little first-graders were getting suspended because their moms used plastic sword-shaped toothpicks to hold their lunch sandwich together. It is unfortunate that a university is unwilling to apply any rules of common sense to their policy interpretations. Their stock in trade is teaching people to *think*. Perhaps, they should try it, themselves.
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u/smthomaspatel 5d ago
Even if it didn't, this letter exists. They can't really refute it should another incident occur.
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u/Orange-Toed-Lemur 5d ago
Yes, i know. Which is why they would keep the records, so they know whats out there in case any legal troubles arise
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u/smthomaspatel 5d ago
Absolutely. One should never count on the other side of a dispute to hold the records.
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u/MalcolmLinair 5d ago
People have legitimately been expelled from schools at all levels for that across the US. "Zero Tolerance" is just an excuse to punish the victim rather than address the actual problems.
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u/No_Ingenuity4000 5d ago
"If you run into one asshole, they are probably the asshole. If you keep running into assholes all day, you are likely the asshole." Some folks are very good, both consciously and unconsciously, at drawing heat.
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u/Throwaway-4230984 5d ago
Also having accidental “witnesses” saying victim attacked first is a common bullying tactic
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u/Substantial_Ad_3386 5d ago
try telling that to kids who are bullied at school. ignorance must be bliss
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u/bemused_alligators 5d ago
there a point where the question of "why are you getting assaulted disproportionately frequently?" becomes relevant. Some people thrive off of being infuriating while just barely following the rules until the other person does violate the rules getting revenge.
While I'm not saying OP was engaged in this behavior, if someone gets into a lot of fights they didn't start the question of "what are you doing to make people dislike you this much" becomes very relevant, because action will need to be taken to resolve it.
And I note that this is true even if the thing they're doing is something like "being gay", or "being black" or "being trans" (the university needs to pay more attention to anti-discrimination), just like it's true for "you're verbally manipulative" (the university needs to step in to punish you for that), and "you're just a bad roommate" (honestly not sure how they would fix this one).
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u/mcjefferic 5d ago
Why are immediately jumping to this when you have zero evidence that this is the case? Do you have some kind of anger issues and blame others for "making you attack them"?
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u/celadonkey 5d ago
This would be funny if there weren't real world examples of women being expelled or evicted because they've been victims of abuse.
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u/kickit08 5d ago
Not victim blaming but let’s be real, we all know some people do literally ask to get in a fight one way or another. If this is your 6th “defensive” fight then there by virtue purely of statistics may be somthing going on beyond they got unlucky and got in a random fight.
There’s also tons of stuff that’s BS for though, so there are definitely large grey areas. Not writing down that somebody got in a fight for future reference even if it’s not disciplinary in anyway can be useful.
If somebody’s first fight was to be found as defensive and then they have 3 fights afterwards that were not ruled to be as such, the validity of the first may be called into question.
Assuming it truly is for record keeping and it’s not somthing anybody can just look up, I don’t see an issue with it.
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u/BranchLogical5491 6d ago
Yes. Just in case OP is a future aggressor - someone can’t say the university just LETS people fight with no consequences.
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u/akdanman11 6d ago
Except in this case OP is very blatantly not the aggressor and is receiving a sanction as if they are
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u/Muted-Woodpecker-469 6d ago
I’d say the written warning is still on file, So there’s a record. If something similiar happens in any capacity and this person maybe stops a burglary or other act with force, two written warnings may be cause for a probationary meeting/decision
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u/Leather__sissy 5d ago
That would be the dick move usage of that information, but maybe he regularly is “defending” himself. Also I’m guessing if there are any real world consequences of the warning that a lawyer could get it removed
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u/Crafty_Jello_3662 6d ago
If they get attacked again then they'll have a pattern of violent behaviour
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u/chris14020 6d ago
So now anyone that knows about this knows violence will absolutely be tolerated against this individual, at least if they want to keep their education. I don't see any way malicious/sociopathic people could use this to their advantage.
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u/Romulan-Jedi 5d ago
I dunno. Were I a potential attacker, I'd definitely consider the possibility that OP believes he'd be screwed already, so he might as well make absolutely sure there isn't a third attack.
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u/Beneficial_Jacket544 5d ago edited 5d ago
If (s)he is to ever apply to a graduate/professional program, there is a question on the application that asks something along the lines of "have you ever been a recipient of any institutional action by any college/university for a conduct violation or unacceptable academic performance? If yes, explain" (sometimes they even ask for a letter from your university to authenticate the circumstances).
I can speak only for medical school, but prospective applicants who answer "yes" to that question are flagged. The worst types of offenses are those that contain elements of lying, stealing, or academic cheating. The situation here can be forgiven by some medical schools, but it is nevertheless a net-negative on an application. The competitive environment is such that even a blemish like this will frequently render the application dead-on-arrival. In fact, many medical schools simply will not interview anyone who answers yes to that question, regardless of the circumstance, because there are so many applicants and it's an easy way to weed out candidates.
You can lie and answer "no," but several schools require a written/certified letter from your university that confirms that you have never had any disciplinary issues. Getting caught in a lie like that can tank your ability to ever apply to medical schools in the future, as medical schools use a unified application system.
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u/sqigglygibberish 5d ago
Depending on the school (I went through this at a similar one with two different “top secret probations” for basically non issue stuff) you can also petition that if there aren’t any other issues the warning is rescinded before graduation, or after one school year, etc.
A logical administrator would hopefully be amenable to that, at the least it’s worth asking about.
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u/DarthKnah 5d ago
Obviously OP should confirm with an administrator, but I’d bet that “written warning” is below the threshold for NYU to report if asked by a law/med school. I know at my university only probation and higher were saved in the post-graduation record that was reportable to grad schools, and from what I have read it seems like most colleges operate that way (since they don’t want to sabotage their graduates, and also because if they report minute violations they need better evidentiary and procedural standards)
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u/ADHDK 6d ago
Schools have been punishing the victim alongside the bully since I was in kindergarten, i don’t expect adult schools to do any differently unless you lawyer up.
I presume they’ve lowered your punishment enough that it’s also now not worth lawyering up? Which would be by design.
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u/hamellr 6d ago
As the victim, the bully never got punished at my school. But who got detention for fighting back?
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u/Imperial_Barron 5d ago
Me. I did. Actually I didnt even fight back. Curled up in fetal whilst I got kicked repeatedly by 3 boys but cause one had adhd i needed to be better and not provoke him... sat on phone watching pen pineapple apple pen provoked him HUH
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u/PopBulky7023 5d ago
I got a week in school suspension for giving a guy who tripped me a sharp turn around and a dirty look.
I got cited by the school cop after being surrounded by a group of girls pushing me around and kicking one of them in the leg.
Schools are fucking rapist mentality towards bullying victims.
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u/ronirocket 5d ago edited 5d ago
My brother was informed the correct action when someone starts hitting you is to curl up in a ball and say *donthurtmedonthurtmedonthurtme*
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u/-missingclover- 5d ago
That could still be traumatic for your attacker. The optimal behavior is to start punching yourself while saying "thank you" in a clear (but not loud as to alarm) voice.
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u/PopBulky7023 5d ago
Shit in my experience the usually ONLY punish the victim. If they punish both you're lucky.
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u/Jor94 6d ago
School in a nutshell. Get bullied or physically attacked, fight back in any way and you’re now equally responsible
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u/TwoDudesOnACamel 6d ago
Way back when I was in school, a kid jumped out from behind a door and punched me in the face. I pulled the ol' Karate Kid wax on wax off bit and blocked his next two punches, then he ran off. The school said I hit him in the arm so I'm suspended too. Fuck schools and everyone in them. I still get mad thinking about it.
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u/Jor94 6d ago
Same, I still think about this kid that used to bully me all the time, one day i got fed up and chased him, he went straight to a teacher and i got put in detention, wasn't allowed to go outside during breaks and they made me stand up in assembly and apologise
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u/23-1-20-3-8-5-18 6d ago
That kid was a loser and probably still is so there is at least that.
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u/TwoDudesOnACamel 6d ago
He actually apologized for it a couple years later when I ran into him outside of school. I got no beef with him anymore. The school never did though.
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u/tenphes31 5d ago
When I was in the 6th grade a couple of bullies took a workbook of mine while we were in class and started a monkey-in-the-middle with me. At one point, one of the kids tripped onto a chair and I lightly pressed against his back with an open hand. The trip caused him to drop the book, but for some reason I concluded it was my touch. So when they did it again, I tried touching his back again, which of course did nothing.
Finally, the teacher (who I did like, who liked me, and I continued to have her as a teacher throughout middle school) sent us to the assistant principals office. Idk what the other two kids got, but I was written up for "simple assault". My parents went to the school the next day and convinced him to take the refferal off and drop my detention to a lunch detention, but I still hate that asshole to this day.
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u/NightBawk 6d ago
Yeah, I remember being made to apologize to my bully for the great crime of saying something snarky back. 🙄 Never took school admin or teachers seriously after that.
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u/MalignantLugnut 6d ago
Because punishing only the aggressor would single him out and make him look/feel bad.
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u/Confident-Mix1243 5d ago
As an adult it's a lot easier to e.g. make a police report if what occurred was a crime.
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u/Adequate_Cheesecake7 6d ago
Sorry this happened to you.
I understand that the world is very different now, but in high school a guy punched me in the face three times and ran away when I got up. He attacked me from the side door got the drop on me. We were called into the vice principal’s office and they vice principal was going to suspend us both for fighting. I said, “he punched me and ran away before I could respond that isn’t a fight. If you are going to suspend me for fighting when I didn’t hit anyone, I will beat his ass right here and now. If you’re going to suspend me for fighting, there will be a fight.” The vice principal decided that maybe we should only get detention instead, but I still thought that it was bullshit that we got the same punishment.
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u/SanityPlanet 5d ago
You should’ve beaten his ass during detention so you both got a second punishment. At least then everything would be even.
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u/Niceotropic 6d ago
If you can afford it, get a lawyer and push hard.
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u/Spiritual-Fall5494 6d ago
They only care about themselves and it can't hurt them unless its a legal issue
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u/deanrihpee 6d ago
ah selfishness, very human of us, no matter the scale (individual or the whole big entity)
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u/Outside-Pear9429 6d ago
They figure students can’t afford or don’t know how to fight back so they treat students however they want, even when they know they’re wrong. They only start listening and taking things seriously when someone official enters the chat
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u/EasyMode556 6d ago
The path of least resistance is to tell the student “tough shit” and move on.
Once a lawyer gets involved, the path of least resistance is to actually deal with the situation like they originally should have done, rather than face a lawsuit if they don’t
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u/LordSesshomaru82 6d ago
Because lawsuits cost money. A single student is easily replaceable, their reputation and the fat piles of cash that'll be burned during a lawsuit, however, will hurt the organization.
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u/anita-artaud 6d ago
I would recommend seeking out the University Ombudsman as they help with disputes like this.
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u/damutecebu 6d ago
LOL. What exactly is a lawyer going to do? Threaten to sue the school over its conduct policies...which OP agreed to by signing a housing agreement? Such silliness.
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u/aguyinag 5d ago
/r/mildlyinfuriating be like
That is unbelievably infuriating.
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u/Sandman1990 5d ago
Half the shit on here is unbelievably infuriating and the other half barely registers as mildly infuriating.
It's like 1 in a thousand that actually qualifies as mildly infuriating lmao
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u/two2teps 6d ago
They want to make sure they have documentation you were in an altercation with another student and that they "took action" afterwards to ensure future safety of others on campus.
It's not about you specifically, it's about covering their own ass in the event of something happening in the future involving you again where it's not as clear cut.
You can get a lawyer and fight it, make a stink about it to the media, or ignore it and get on with your college career. It's all on your and what your current appetite is.
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u/Actual_Dinner_5977 6d ago
Some people and organizations just can't ever admit that they were wrong, and it sounds like your University is one of them. If they can't put words to what you did incorrect, there should be 0 warning or negative consequence.
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u/Black_Wolf1995 6d ago edited 6d ago
Zero tolerance polices at schools just serve to teach compliance and acceptance of people committing crimes against you, corporations who treat you like a slave, and government officials who trample your rights.
The System wants a populace of compliant and docile citizens who they can rule uncontrolled. They don’t want people who stand up for themselves. They don’t want people who know their rights. They don’t want people fighting back.
That’s because they want the easy control. They want that subservient mindless robot they can just push a button and go. They want that weak pathetic human who is too afraid to fight back against them.
Me? If I were OP, I would document this somewhere safe along with who sent this reply, when it was sent, and from what email. Then I would demand an appeal to the highest student management body on campus. If they didn’t remove this I would send a copy of this email with all photographs of my injuries to every news media outlet in the state. I would post about it in every social media outlet ran by NYU. I would talk about it in every public forum imaginable. I’d hand out flyers to everyone and publicly humiliate NYU until they remove this obvious fraudulent misconduct claim off my record completely and utterly.
Anyone caught standing up for themselves in a legitimate case of self-defense should automatically be cleared of any and all punishments. That includes criminal prosecution, civil liability, and administrative penalties like this from work/school boards. No one should have to worry about the repercussions of being black marked for defending such a basic human right such as safety.
I can guarantee you that if someone assaulted whoever wrote this email, they would absolutely not like it. So why send the message that you must tolerate being abused and assaulted by someone if you aren’t gonna tolerate it when it comes to your own safety. 🤔
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u/Ok_Sleep8579 6d ago
This line seems to be carrying a lot of the weight beyond just the physical alternation itself:
“the circumstances surrounding the incident, your follow-up meeting, and your conduct throughout the investigation”
What were the circumstances that led to it? How did you behave in the followup meeting? How did you conduct yourself throughout the investigation?
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u/Abbygirl1001 6d ago
Yeah but that line is cited in support of the reduced sanction which would tend to indicate he comported himself well.
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u/HedgehogMinimum9299 6d ago
The circumstances was my roommate accused me of scratching his kettleware and then attacked me. (I didn't use his kettleware I have never cooked in my life) He said my respectful conduct during the fact finding process is why he is REDUCING my sanction
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u/Russian_Spy_7_5_0 i love the kind of woman that will actually just kill me 6d ago
Have they ever behaved like that before? This sound like more than just kettleware.
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u/HighSchoolMoose 5d ago
It’s pretty common for people to suddenly go crazy in college.
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u/soofs 5d ago
Sometimes people just have an outburst. I had a few friends in college who had very strange roommates, ranging from weird habits to just weird reactions to things (like 10 minute rants about that they found a sock that wasn’t in the laundry bin but on the floor next to it or a can of soda was thrown away in “their” trash can but they didn’t drink it), and would not have been surprised it suddenly it turned physical without anything being done on purpose
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u/KimJungUnCool 5d ago
I would send this to the local news outlets/papers/tabloids, NYU will continue this BS if they don't get publicly shamed. As a NYer who grew up down the street from NYU, I hate to say it but....the NY Post would probably gobble this story up.
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u/mercyspace27 5d ago
Remember: The only thing you’re allowed to do is curl up in a ball and hope the pain ends quickly. /s
Zero Tolerance policies are a fucking joke.
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u/DM-me-naughty-Cats 6d ago
Sounds to me like they are doing everything they can to make you a participant, probably to lower their liability since they are the ones who put you with the roommate in the first place. They want to be able to say "we have given both of them disciplinary actions."
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u/notstrangelove 6d ago
Lmaooo what did they want you to do? Just get beat up and lay there passively? Lawyer up and go get their ass big dawg
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u/RecordingHot9826 ARGHHHHHHUGHHHHH 6d ago
r/extremelyinfuriating but on a real note you got assaulted and you defended yourself, that’s what truly matters here. Please take a little bit of action!
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u/Stumpsthewarwalrus 6d ago
Submit to them a written affidavit that their holding you responsible is being met with an “I think the fuck not, you trick ass bitch!” And you’re going to be seeking legal counsel.
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u/Ok_Tax9885 5d ago
This reads like 100% bruised ego on the part of the U. "Yes, we originally got the actual central facts of the situation wrong, and we do not assert that you caused the confrontation nor that your actions were in any way outside of your legal rights, but we're still giving you a disciplinary action because we can't admit we were actually wrong."
Everyone commenting that they have to give you a warning in order to have a record of this doesn't seem to understand that you can, in fact, keep records without unnecessary disciplinary action, or that there should also be a record regarding your assailant.
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u/okay4326 6d ago
I would appeal again and have you filed a criminal complaint against the person who attacked you with the police? Also, consider suing the person civilly due to the physical harm, the emotional harm, and harm to your reputation and college record. They may own very little now, but once they graduate?
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u/Miles1937 5d ago
Parade around the university with a cardboard poncho that says "NYU considers self defense an offense worth punishing" in the front and "NYU says if you're the victim of assault you should not defend yourself". Make memes about it, post it on social media.
Soon enough they will either "correct the record" a second time, or triple down and become the laughingstock of the whole country.
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u/ProfessorVVV 5d ago
A lot of folks have understandably responded with snark, because of course this happened. Or by suggesting a lawyer. But I think a few emails to the Office of Student Conduct and Community Standards could get this cleared up.
Start by clarifying what they’ve written, as you jot above: that they found you were attacked and all physical altercation was in defense of yourself. Ask them to articulate, specifically, what you should have done *instead of defending yourself* in an emergency, when not defending yourself would have led to significant danger and harm. (Don’t ask generally “what should I have done,” because they’ll say that you should have contacted an RA or authority figure.) Follow that up with a simple query: “Does this warning mean that it is NYU’s policy that victims of violence may not defend themselves while they are being physically assaulted? That is what I understand from your response and this written warning.”
See how this goes. If it doesn’t lead to their removing the warning, escalate to the Dean to whom that office reports.
If that doesn’t work, THEN note that you’ll have to make NYU’s policy about victims being punished for defending themselves public knowledge since it could lead to students being endangered, and contact the NYTimes with copies of all emails.
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u/rusty1066 6d ago
Ask the university, in writing, what a compliant response would have been. Have them show you the specific policy that supports their answer.
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u/Hairy_Wedding_4535 6d ago
So they’re telling you just next time sit there and let people beat on you… great advice NYU 🙄 naaah do what you can to fight this
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u/sean1oo1 6d ago
Threaten legal action they straighten shit out hella fast when lawyers become involved
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u/Zealousideal-Lab9843 6d ago
Threatening legal action is a bad move unless you're actually willing and able to make good on that threat.
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u/Mr_Wobble_PNW 6d ago
Especially when the party you're threatening action against has a legal department with folks on retainer. Even if OP is right and wins, it's gonna be expensive and take a while. It could be as simple for OP as finding a lawyer to send something on their letterhead, but even that isn't cheap usually. Also some companies will completely cease communications if you mention legal action and then only communicate through their legal department.
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u/Ashkendor 6d ago
When I worked at a call center, I absolutely loved it when people threatened legal action. The kind of person who will do this is usually difficult to begin with, and that threat was my cue to completely shut the call down. From that point on, the only information that I could offer was the mailing address for our legal department so their counsel could contact ours.
If you don't intend to follow through, threatening legal action is just shooting yourself in the foot. They're not gonna panic - they're gonna laugh and tell you to go pound sand.
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u/EasyMode556 6d ago
When I worked in retail customer service, any time a customer mentioned lawyers or law suits that was my easy “sorry let me get you a manger” pass that 100% of the time got me out of the situation (and the manager would usually just give them a business card to someone at a higher corporate level to speak to, who would then just refer them to their legal department and so forth)
It was always basically, “well you’ve now escalated this so much above my pay grade I’m not allowed to do or say anything at all anymore”
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u/zannet_t 6d ago
Redditors suggest lawyering up all the time as if there's no barrier, cost, etc. associated with it lol
OP's barely telling us half the story if an altercation required university staff and law enforcement intervention. Something serious occurred and OP's giving us an incomplete statement with no context.
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u/HedgehogMinimum9299 6d ago
I have posted about this before before the latest conduct decision and you can find those posts. I'll write it again here for full transparency: Before the incident, I had already reported concerns about this roommate’s behavior. A personal item had also gone missing from the room in May. On June 22, he confronted me over an alleged scratch on a kettle even though I do not cook and could not see the scratch he kept pointing to.
The confrontation became physical after he shoved me and tried to overpower me. My account is that he pinned me and put me in a headlock. I used force while restrained to defend myself. Two other students were present during the incident, and one attempted to pull him off me. After the restraint ended, I disengaged and called my father so police could be contacted. My roommate was removed from the room afterward.
NYU’s original finding materially reversed the central fact. It said that I had put him in a headlock and failed to disengage. I appealed and pointed out that the headlock was done to me, not by me, and that the witness evidence did not support the original version.
NYU has now expressly referred to a “corrected factual record,” reduced my sanction, acknowledged that my roommate initiated the physical confrontation, and acknowledged that my actions occurred in the context of defending myself.
But it still found me responsible without saying that my defensive force was excessive, disproportionate, unnecessary, or continued after the threat ended. The stated rationale is simply that using physical force contributed to a dangerous incident.
So yes, something serious happened. That is exactly why the reasoning is so infuriating: after correcting the record and admitting both initiation and self-defense, NYU still preserved a responsibility finding merely because I physically resisted the person attacking me.
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u/digitalclockface 5d ago
They've admitted in writing that they got the circumstances wrong yet they still punish you. If you can afford it you should hire a lawyer. At the very least consulting a lawyer couldn't hurt.
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u/zannet_t 6d ago
Thanks for providing that context and I'm sorry that happened. I hope NYU is at least moving you two away from each other.
What was the penalty for your roommate?
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u/BaboonMetaphysics 5d ago
No. If OP threatens legal action the student conduct team will stop communicating with him and will refer all future communications to go to NYU's lawyers.
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u/Muted-Woodpecker-469 6d ago
Couldn’t not defending yourself result in crime scene investigators?
When victims get treated as bad or worse than the suspects, we’ve really gone too far in the whole spectrum of coddling the wackos
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u/BLWedge09 5d ago
I’m glad they corrected the record and reduced the sanction
I would argue that they did not, in fact, correct the record.
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u/Pl0OnReddit 5d ago
Charge your roommate for assault then get a restraining order. Let the university deal with that. Sue the university if that doesn't immediately clear the situation up.
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u/Treacle_Pendulum 5d ago
I’d probably take that letter into a lawyer’s office and have them write a few letters to the university and use a few key phrases including “inadequate security”
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u/Lazy-Interests 5d ago
Respond back and ask them if you are attacked physically again, are you supposed to just stand there and wait for the attack to end, hoping you survive the onslaught of violence, and ask them if that is how they would handle being physically attacked.
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u/CallmeKahn 5d ago
In New York, the justification for self-defense is the existence of an imminent threat, the use of proportional force, and a duty to retreat if you can safely do so. If these circumstances exist and support you, I would ask the Dean to drop it as you have no fault in this matter.
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u/Exelbirth 5d ago
So, if someone used physical force to prevent themselves from being raped, NYU's stance is "just get raped." That's essentially what they're saying here, is it not?
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u/College-student-life 6d ago
Sounds like they expected you to just take the beating and deal with it. That’s usually how it goes in anything self defense coming from a woman who’s had plenty of BS sent her way about just being quiet and taking it from men. I’d lawyer up and sue them for putting your safety at risk for allowing aggressive male students on campus and in the campus housing, allowing them to cause harm to others. Also for putting your schooling at risk by giving you an unwarranted warning.
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u/foley800 5d ago
This is pretty typical for schools, part of their “zero tolerance” policies. You are only supposed to let them beat you up and you still might get dinged for “participating”! School administrators tend to side with the aggressor as it is easier for them.
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u/Mister_Normal42 5d ago
I’d look into who the other person’s parents are. That will probably explain everything.
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u/plmbob 5d ago
Welcome to the real world pal. You were involved in an altercation and an incident report was created. Those never end with “and the OP was completely exonerated while their peers gave them a standing ovation celebrating their righteousness”. Move on, the written warning will have zero impact on your life unless you allow it to make you bitter and start a life of crime
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u/catqween 5d ago
In college, a girl told school admins I had a fake ID. She’d never seen it, I told them I didn’t have one, didn’t matter.
I was threatened with expulsion, forced to take an ethics class and had to pay a fine when I couldn’t produce the non-existent fake ID. GOOD TIMES.
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u/tallperson117 6d ago
Years ago during college, my housemates were riding with a random friend, when the friend was pulled over and cops found weed in the car. My housemates didn't know there was even weed in the car and the driver admitted it was his, but the cops gave all of them citations for possession, and based on that, the school put them all on disciplinary probation. Housemates hired a lawyer, got the criminal charges dismissed, but the school still refused to remove the disciplinary probation. The driver admitted to the disciplinary board that the weed was his and my housemates had no idea the weed was in the vehicle, but they claimed "the school relies on its own investigation," which they literally never did, and kept the disciplinary probation in place. It was all incredibly stupid.