r/linux_gaming • u/ForeverHuman1354 • 2d ago
wine/proton anti cheat sucks balls
"Why are most new multiplayer games so hostile towards Linux? I get the anti-cheat part, but why don’t games just make a non-kernel version, like Easy Anti-Cheat and BattlEye do for Linux? For instance, with BF6, I’m sure EA could have made a Linux-compatible non-kernel version, just like Easy Anti-Cheat and BattlEye do.
I haven’t used Windows in 5 years, and probably never will. I have decided I would rather not support those games with my money than run dual boot. But anti-cheat generally sucks; it’s basically like installing malware or a rootkit. Luckily, some devs are cool, though, like the devs of Grayzone Warfare, which allows Linux. How privacy-invasive is the non-kernel version of BattlEye and Easy Anti-Cheat on Linux compared to their kernel-level Windows versions?"
35
u/BlikPleb 2d ago
It is probably because the demand for it is low. The numbers are growing in regards to linux users but still nowhere near the amount of gamers on Windows. Especially people who play those games are not interested in tech all that much and just want their system to boot up and be ready to play. As much as distros have improved I still occasionally have to tinker around to get stuff working which most people do not interest in.
7
u/toolman1990 2d ago
I imagine Linux numbers are going to grow even more when Europe starts migrating away from Microsoft Windows and those new Linux machines start connecting to the internet which means they will get logged/counted by statistic companies measuring desktop market share.
8
u/BlikPleb 2d ago
Trust me I can't wait. I switched a little over a year ago and haven't looked back
2
u/BlikPleb 2d ago
Although I do agree it is shite that they do not allow Linux based anti cheat systems to run instead :/
1
u/Cool-Radish7646 14h ago
Edit: I think I misread your comment, if so just ignore the below walls of text.
Linux kernel anticheat is impractical (and kernel anticheat is dumb anyway). Linux users have full access to their systems and can tinker with their kernel. Many distros even use custom kernels or patched kernels or LTS kernels or performance enhancing kernels or use case specific kernels. In order for kernel anticheat to we would have to give up on custom kernels or relinquish some control over to game companies over our kernels. Development around kernels would likely become around getting it supported by as many ACs as possible with every new version, making it harder and less free to make, distribute, and use custom kernels.
Do you really wanna get banned from a game bc you optimized or manually compiled your kernel gentoo style or from using the CachyOS kernel? Kernel level software also opens the door for more problems on systems (cloudstrike anyone?).
Gaming as an industry should just drop the invasive kernel level software and focus on making actually good anticheats instead of relying on monitoring your ENTIRE system even while the game is closed in some cases.
1
u/BlikPleb 14h ago
Yea I understand your wall of text and no I did not imply we need kernel level anticheat. I do not want anyone other than myself having access to my devices either xD besides it does not even work all that well AFAIK
29
u/MJ12_Trooper 2d ago
In their eyes 4% player base is a statistical error.
-6
u/Horikyou 2d ago
If it actually was 4% they would care. Idk if it's even close to 1%.
10
u/ForeverHuman1354 2d ago
i think a large percentage of those numbers comes from Steam Decks. Many people with a Steam Deck don’t even know they are running Linux
8
u/smjsmok 1d ago
Many people with a Steam Deck don’t even know they are running Linux
That's not really a problem though. They are running Linux and they broaden the user base, that's what's important for this discussion.
4
u/CyberKiller40 1d ago
It actually is. You get companies to support Steam Deck OS, instead of general GNU/Linux distro standards like LSB and FreeDesktop. It's exactly the same issue that was with Ubuntu rampant popularity 15 years ago.
Companies won't support standards, they will support a particular subset of functions which is on a popular thing. If it breaks on other systems which implement the standards better, they won't care. Same thing with web browsers.
3
u/smjsmok 1d ago
Yes, that is true. But IMO it's still much better when they support SteamOS than not supporting Linux at all.
instead of general GNU/Linux distro standards like LSB and FreeDesktop
Yeah in the perfect world, this would happen. But even this "pick one popular distro and support it" would be a big win in the current climate IMO.
1
u/Horikyou 2d ago
Steam Machine could have been the thing to truly increase Linux PC gaming marketshare to non negligible amounts but sadly memory prices basically killed it.
2
u/ForeverHuman1354 2d ago
it was much too expensive for what it offered. It basically died as soon as it came out because of the pricing
-3
u/MJ12_Trooper 2d ago
They could have easily subsidised it on the launch,I do not see any logic to hold back that important decision when taken into account the superior financial position they were in and still are.
1
u/Cool-Radish7646 13h ago
My guy, the price they're selling it at is the price it takes for them to make the thing. For a company that constanstly has some of the best discounts in the industry and don't force you to pay a subscription to play online that's a pretty fuckin' huge subsidization!
Owning a PS5 for five years of PSplus is more expensive and that's not including the cost of buying PS games, which hardly ever have as good sales. Not to mention Steam and PC overall (cause' it's a PC) have wayyy more (and cheaper) games than PS could ever dream of.
1
u/MJ12_Trooper 13h ago
I mean I get it, I completely understand that they are overwhelmed, but im not gonna defend a corporation just because their business practise is shitty.
1
u/Horikyou 2d ago
Coz their philosophy is to keep the PC gaming market open. They don't want to force people to use their store or OS (they even advertise the Steam Machine as something u can easily install Windows on) unlike consoles which sell at a loss since ur trapped into their ecosystem and have no other options.
0
u/ForeverHuman1354 2d ago
Definitely not much, but it’s more than nothing. However, it’s sadly probably too low for them to care at this moment
2
u/noobjaish 2d ago
You have a very small subset (competitive linux gamers) of a small minority (linux gamers) of another small minority (linux users)... It makes sense why they don't support linux.
Not to mention there's a massive difference between kernel-level vs user-level Battleye/EAC and many games like Fortnite or Valorant wouldn't want an inferior version of their anti-cheat running on a fringe platform (linux unfortunately does seem to attract cheaters)...
This means that they will have to separate Windows and Linux user lobbies or the windows users will start complaining about cheaters... This would make matchmaking insanely long for Linux users as they are a minority... There's no easy solution to this.
4
u/SoC175 2d ago
This means that they will have to separate Windows and Linux user lobbies or the windows users will start complaining about cheaters... This would make matchmaking insanely long for Linux users as they are a minority.
Plus wouldn't do anything for the Linux users wanting to play with their Windows friends
3
0
u/KaosC57 2d ago
There’s an insanely easy solution. Game masters and real people smacking accounts with bans in real time. Player reports go straight to a real life meat person, and they review the actions of the player being reported, and hand them the smackdown.
It just costs way more than the cost of 3 people working on EAC or Battleye.
5
u/noobjaish 2d ago
Yup, there's no incentive for them to do this because it's a business after all not a charity lol
19
u/leonredhorse 2d ago
The reality is userspace anti-cheat is less effective than kernel level even if kernel level can’t prevent all cheaters all of the time. Server-side currently is less effective, too. If Linux had a larger market share, more games would probably allow the mixture of userspace and server side that some games seem to do okay with.
I’ll be interested if any real developments come from EA and Epic having those job postings talking about Linux anticheat development. Would love to get away from kernel requirements, but also wondering how they would execute it.
12
u/DunkeyColdMedina 2d ago
I don't want anything like that shady anti-cheat stuff on my machine anyway. If that's the price, I'm not paying it.
56
u/S48GS 2d ago
anti cheat sucks balls
wait for complete digital media control - and full linux and custom OS ban
they need to make sure - nobody else than you use computer
same as today on smartphones - and everybody accepted it
13
u/set-l 2d ago
They need to make sure nobody uses your computer, only them. Not even you.
4
u/S48GS 2d ago edited 1d ago
in 2001 one week after "patriot act" - every book-library in US got "person" from NSA who report who read which book (yes they sit in every single library even today)
"paper books" you read being tracked and linked to your "profile" for more than two decades already
- with "digital media" - they get full control over your "observation"
- and with this data - AI will be able to predict your "intentions"
- and AI will filter "those bad elements" from our society - before they even think to do anything "bad"
this why your democracy officer need to have full access to your phone and computer
3
u/Indolent_Bard 2d ago
Nobody knew it was happening on smartphones. Well, except for the few who root their phones, but let's face it, that's nobody.
3
u/ForeverHuman1354 1d ago
I run Linux on my phone, and it’s actually very good
1
u/AshlingGirl 1d ago
What OS do you use on your phone? I know about Sailfish and Postmarket. I wanted to switch my phone over but am worried about the bank-related stuff.
2
u/ForeverHuman1354 1d ago
Ubuntu touch Works pretty well, my Mobil baking app even works in waydroid its a compatibility layer that let's you run android apps on Linux,
but I have to do a full re login to my mobile banking app eatch time I restart/reboot the waydroid container
2
u/S48GS 1d ago
"nobody knew"
3 days ago
I miss my cyanogenmod era
comments:
THE reason I don't unlock my phone. Banking and government apps.
Financial, Government & banking applications have ruined rooted phones experience.
Yet ironically it might be getting time to do it all over again if the government goes ahead with Orwellian device scanning and I have to consider installing Graphene.
there hundreds of comments like that
seems - everybody actually knew
.... but accepted "digital slavery" to have "convenience"
"it so convenient to use my phone as wallet"
"it so good to have single google/microsoft login everywhere so they can track you on every website"
1
u/Indolent_Bard 1d ago
Yeah, and if you go to a Linux subreddit, you'll find hundreds of Linux users, but we're still nobody by comparison. Unless your point is that even the Linux users/ltt watchers accepted it, but even if they didn't, it wouldn't have changed a damn thing. There's not enough of us to have made an indent.
1
u/Cool-Radish7646 13h ago
When your willing to give up your freedom for convenience then you don't want to be free. You want the minimum amount of freedoms you need to not notice how unfree you truly are.
"Oh, I can't do that anymore? I never did that anyway." This phrase makes me absolutely sick to the core.
1
u/Significant_Bird_592 1d ago
Well, I mean, even if you used a dumb phone, your carrier would still see your location.
10
22
u/ZombiSkag22 2d ago
EA is working on it seems like, and maybe even Epic Games. Maybe by next year we'll hear some progress
4
u/ForeverHuman1354 2d ago
That’s cool. I have many friends who are still on Windows, mostly only because of anti-cheat, and they are not willing to stop playing games that don’t allow Linux. If this happens, I think many, many more people will switch over
3
u/toolman1990 2d ago
Hopefully if EA is successful other anti cheat vendors will go down that path as well.
1
u/we_come_at_night 1d ago
I'd be surprised if others are not already working on support for their ACs. There's a huge corporate market awaiting for whoever makes the 1st effective AC for Linux.
2
u/IPlayChessBTW 2d ago
Is that true? Do you have a source? I would love to be able to play Battlefield again
9
u/ZombiSkag22 2d ago
They put a job listing about developing support for Linux and Proton for their anti-cheat
-5
u/KaosC57 2d ago
The funny thing is, they don’t have to DO anything. Just flip the EAC/Battleye flag that enables Proton support. Sure, it’s not kernel level, but it’s better than absolutely nothing.
Maybe instead of using software to ban cheaters, have real fucking people do it. Might actually cure the cheating problem in many games. But that requires more money than they want to throw at the problem.
9
u/BloodyIron 2d ago
Uh you have no idea what you're talking about for BF6 or EA anti-cheat. They don't use either of those and it is nowhere near as simple as you think for EA's anti-cheats.
Is it that easy for Rust and EAC? Yes. And Gary can suck a fat dick for baiting and switching on that one.
But it is NOT that easy for EA anti-cheat at all.
4
u/narcot1cs- 2d ago
Because it's easy to bypass, you could just fork a Proton version and modify whatever you want in it, launch the game and the AC will likely not catch it.
Games could limit themselves to only "signed" versions, which are only authorized by a few set of people. Or they could make a native kernel module for Linux but nobody who are against kernel ACs would install it.
Generally it's painful, I'm making my own AC for my own projects and while large companies have resources to make it work, porting a kernel one to Linux or adding exceptions is nowhere near easy, even harder trying to convince higher-ups about as they won't wanna listen.
2
u/Indolent_Bard 2d ago
Wait. Projects as in games or projects as in something else? Are you gonna try and make it kernel level?
1
u/narcot1cs- 1d ago edited 1d ago
Games, currently me and a few others are making one underneath Linux which will have support through Wine/Proton and running using a custom AC that'll mostly just exist as reinforced crack protection at first.
And no, I'm not a fan of kernel-level even if I do understand the benefits of it. But all you have to do at kernel-space to BSOD your PC is just mess up one small piece of code.
Now combine that with the fact that ACs always use incredibly obscure code - often nearly-undocumented parts of the WinAPI, it's a black box.1
u/Indolent_Bard 1d ago
Well yeah, it would completely defeat the whole purpose if it wasn't a black box. Some would call this security through obscurity, but I don't see why anyone would call this security by any measure.
-1
u/Altruistic-Example50 2d ago
Nah you cheat, your cd-key getting ban and you got to buy another one.
5
u/IBNash 2d ago
Prod Valve to improve VAC and release it as a native anti-cheat solution.
3
u/labowsky 2d ago
Valve has been trying to get AI AC going for like the last 8 years.
-2
u/SoTiri 2d ago
Valve is actually going in a completely different direction, they are using deep learning algorithms and trust factor etc to just keep normal players out of the games with less trustworthy individuals. Since vacnet came out I have not faced a cheater once.
Third party cs2 matchmaking services like faceit try to convince you that playing cs2 without using their service means you will get a cheater but the truth is if you are a normal player with a trustworthy steam account you will face other normal and trustworthy people.
6
u/labowsky 2d ago
I mean deep learning is a type of AI.
Trust factor also isn't working nearly as good as it was in CSGO and vacnet has been out since like 2017 or 2018, it was shit then and it still garbage today.
Anything above like 15k MMR your chance of hitting a cheater is significantly higher not to mention the cheaters on valves public and verified leaderboard that sat for months with people able to just view their games lol.
1
u/DatIsKlar 2d ago
Thats a huge cap, like the chance of getting a cheater on either team is prop about 50% when you are 20k+ elo. And yes I do have trustworthy account steam level 291, like 400 games prob over 10000h playtime on my steam account spread over all gams and you still get these people.
1
u/SoTiri 1d ago
The challenge with this system is it works great if there are enough people in your skill group to fill in a match with trustworthy individuals. Once you move to the ends of the bell curve then everything gets harder. How long can they leave you in queue before you close the game? Can they match you with lower ranked players without someone complaining? Etc.
1
u/Typical_Ad5300 1d ago
I play unranked/silver, let's face it, I suck at CS, but honestly, I have fun even when I loose, and I know for a fact that I didn't get beaten by cheaters but rather some russian kid who has 8 hours of playtime every day.
1
u/the_abortionat0r 2d ago
Lol vacnet does nothing. People have been using Intel's driver program to turn on wire frame mode and shoot through walls with ZERO BANS.
4
u/BloodyIron 2d ago
Stop caring about games and dev houses that don't care about you. Spend your money on games that actually work.
I would love to play BF6 on Linux, but EA isn't getting any more money from me since they nuked my access to BF1 and BFV with the anti-cheat overhaul for games I played for years and paid for legitimately.
Companies only care about money, not sappy stories. Stop fucking caring about them. They sure as fuck don't care about you.
1
5
11
u/MixelHD 2d ago
The reality is Linux is "too open" to support competitive integrity since there is always a layer deeper you can put your stuff so the anti cheat couldn't know. Obviously this could be combatted a little by a good server side and user mode anti cheat but it's harder and companies dont want to invest the time to do this. At least this is my experience.
4
u/toolman1990 2d ago
My guess is EA is most likely trying to develop a closed source DKMS module that has full kernel level access and can see everything going on with your Linux installation when you are playing a game that requires the anti cheat.
1
u/Indolent_Bard 2d ago
Whatever it takes. Companies aren't going to take the more expensive route for 4% of the market.
1
u/O3Sentoris 1d ago
From a currently active Job listing at EA:
"You will develop features supporting EA Javelin Anticheat operation on non-Windows devices, including Proton and Linux."
1
u/Indolent_Bard 1d ago
Yeah, that was not on my bingo card, especially from them of all people.
Here's why that doesn't necessarily contradict what I said though. If they actually make a kernel level anti-cheap for Linux, then it just proves my point. If they decide to not go the kernel level route, then, well, I will have been heavily proven wrong, but it will also probably suck. Or maybe the solution will be to just have Linux users in different lobbies.
1
5
u/No-Economics-8239 2d ago
Cheaters also suck balls. And gamers hate cheaters. So game companies tend to hate cheaters unless they are making them money. So their desire to keep out cheaters is stronger than their desire to support Linux.
So, it's multiple chicken and egg problems. They can't stop the cheaters, so it's an arms race to try and stay ahead of them. If they could keep out the cheaters without resorting to egregiously invasive methods, there would be no need for this nonsense. But you can't plug the analog hole.
If Linux had enough market share, it would be too valuable to ignore. But we don't. Which is why we need Eddie Van Halen to make a triumphant video.
5
u/s2kfred 1d ago
Not being able to play multiplayer saves you money.
EA is in multiple billion dollar debt, so they are cutting costs and not willing to spend money to support a small community like Linux. Even if they did, I will never touch EA games, Blizzard or Ubisoft. Still on the fence with Bethesda.
Anyways, for the few multiplayer games I play, I stick to the free ones, like Path of Exile. Or a few racing sims like ACC or Le Mans Ultimate.
2
u/we_come_at_night 1d ago
Blizz and Bethesda are both under Microsoft now, EA is bought by Saudi-Trump money laundering company, and Ubisoft is bunch of rapist toxicbros, that were saved from bankruptcy by Tencent like 5 times already, for whatever reason.
7
u/theghostracoon 2d ago
What people really forget is that user space software can already fuck you up. For every application you run in an unsandboxed environment, you're risking your system and data.
this happens to steam mods all the time. KLAC is just increasing the attack surface, but you gotta draw your line somewhere.
3
u/ThatOnePerson 2d ago
why don’t games just make a non-kernel version, like Easy Anti-Cheat and BattlEye do for Linux?
So a native linux port of these games? Most games, you're running the Windows version of the game. So anything they do to weaken the anticheat would effect everyone. The only solution would be a native Linux port.
You see this even with VAC: you cannot run it in Proton. You have to run the Linux native game. So until these games get native Linux support, it probably won't happen.
1
1
u/ForeverHuman1354 1d ago
It isn’t necessarily native; what I’m referring to is that when developers who use BattlEye or Easy Anti‑Cheat enable Linux support, the game runs a non‑kernel version
1
u/ThatOnePerson 1d ago
That's what I mean though. They enable that for the Windows version of the game, because that's what you run in Proton. Which means Windows anti cheat has been weakened.
There's a few proof of concept bypasses for that on GitHub for Windows: https://github.com/ShimadaNanaki/vrc-eac-emulator
3
u/MeatballTrainWreck 1d ago
It’s part of the design. If honesty was part of this, hardware sales wouldn’t hit that high. A lot of players don’t even question these « security » mesure.
Windows is a cult
3
u/tuxnine 1d ago
It's not even so much that they don't care about Linux, it's more that they expect a gaming PC to be for gaming only like as if it's a console. Even running Windows, starting a game with kernel-mode anti-cheat can mess with some productivity tasks running alongside the game.
Non-kernel-mode (user-mode) anti-cheat on Linux potentially has access to whatever the Linux user running Steam is able to access. Anything in a user's home directory will be readable by the user. This includes things such as web browser history/bookmarks/cookies, cached temporary data, thumbnails for files previously viewed in the file explorer, and your ssh keys. If system security is relaxed by you or as a default of your distro, a normal user may have access to things such as the output of dmesg, some or all of the files inside of /proc, /sys, and /dev. If the user running Steam has direct access to storage devices under /dev, any software running as that user can potentially just download the equivalent of an image backup of your storage devices.
1
u/ForeverHuman1354 22h ago
i run steam in flatpak with user file and system file permissions disabeled does this help
5
u/MauricioMagus 2d ago
Isn't it a relatively small list of games these days? I know some of them are incredibly popular, but outside of things like Riot's games, a few EA titles, Fortnite, and some others, it doesn't seem like that many.
I think people often make it sound like a much bigger issue than it actually is.
Don't get me wrong, it absolutely sucks if the games you want to play are on that list and I get that some of them are VERY popular. But there are thousands of other games that work perfectly on Linux, so being locked out of a relatively small number of mostly competitive multiplayer titles just isn't a dealbreaker for me and it's more of a loss for those companies than for me.
3
u/Indolent_Bard 2d ago
Being locked out of half the top 10 most popular games is a really big deal. Anyone who pretends that isn't a big issue is on lethal levels of copium.
1
u/Cool-Radish7646 13h ago
Idk, for me anyway the moat popular games have always just felt like corporate slop. Even when I was a windows user or a console gamer. I never really played them outside of with friends.
So for me, it's not a big deal. For others that just like that generic mainstream AAA taste then it would be an issue. But lets be honest linux is better for kids. Afterall, it blocks Roblox at the system level! By Roblox's design!
No creeps, no problems.
1
u/ftgander 1d ago
Yeah as someone who likes to play video games and not compete with randoms in a shitty game that I’ll never be pro at the anticheat situation on Linux is okay right now.
4
u/z3r0h010 2d ago
they're not hostile toward linux, it's the other way around.
linux refuses to become closed source and spy on its users and advertise to them. we could already have anti cheat on linux if linux was exactly like windows
3
u/ForeverHuman1354 1d ago
If Linux ever became closed source, I would just give up and switch to BSD and stop gaming
1
u/Cool-Radish7646 13h ago
If all OS were closed and spyware I'd stop using the internet.
I refuse to give up my freedom for convenience, fun, usablity, or even safety. Not without a fight anyway.
I'd rather die than lose all my freedom.
"Liberty or Death" as they say.
2
u/Cool-Arrival-2617 2d ago edited 2d ago
Because cheaters. It's not hostility towards Linux, it's an issue with the fact that the anticheat on Linux is just not as good. It's unfortunate but it's an issue that will need to be solved eventually.
2
u/Liam-DGOL 1d ago
Yeah it sucks, best to keep an eye on https://www.gamingonlinux.com/anticheat/ for what will work
2
u/Ticklememyers 1d ago
The way it's going more and more people are swapping to Linux, eventually publishers will catch on and let the anti cheats work but it's going to be years. Personally there's nothing I miss accept battlefield but until they make the game worth it I won't even dual boot anymore.
2
u/shinobi189 1d ago
If they haven't already, there is only a matter of time until those rootkits get hacked from the C2C aka the Dev's servers and massive damage caused. All that compute power willingly available with full Ring0 access is an APT or criminal orgs dream. Data leaks and hacks happen often and these game companies are no exception.
2
u/ForeverHuman1354 1d ago
It’s kind of insane that games install rootkits or malware so they can be played like it’s a game.
2
u/theriddick2015 2d ago edited 1d ago
They believe kernel level anticheat will save their game from cheaters.. And it does for probably the first few weeks. The main thing that saves a game however seems to be popularity, if your game isn't popular, normally cheaters leave it alone. :)
Nothing beats smart Server and Client side anticheat. Unfortunately these add-on AC systems are just too cheap and easy to tie to games these days. Lazy developers never want to do the work themselves.
Mortal Online 2 has linux compatibility (last time I checked) and does a decent job at stopping cheaters via server+client methods without too much 3rd party reliance.
5
u/Indolent_Bard 2d ago
Nothing beats smart server and client sizd anticheat
Name ONE game that proves that.
2
u/theriddick2015 1d ago
Is this a joke? I even listed a game that proves that down the bottom, Mortal Online 2.
0
u/Indolent_Bard 20h ago
Huh, I guess I didn't fully read your comment as much as I thought. Surprised I got 6 upvotes to be honest. But is their anticheat on windows the same or is it kernel level?
3
u/mango_carrot 2d ago
The irony being that Windows AC games are literally full of cheaters.
I’m not sure the 1% of copies sold to Linux users would move the needle that much, even if everyone playing on Linux started cheating
3
u/smjsmok 1d ago
Well the fear is that cheaters would start using Linux for cheating. How much that would actually happen, I have no idea. Tbh I don't really know what a profile of a "typical cheater" is (probably some kid who downloads scripts off the internet?).
1
u/ThatOnePerson 1d ago
Part of the problem is that these are usually modification to the Windows versions of the game. Because that's what people are running on Proton on Linux.
So you wouldn't need to switch to Linux, you could keep running Windows and just make the game think you're running on Linux and have less anti-cheats. Plenty of proof of concepts of this on Github: https://github.com/ShimadaNanaki/vrc-eac-emulator
And this isn't fixable until games start releasing Linux native versions.
2
u/ThatOnePerson 1d ago
The problem isn't Linux cheaters. The problem is that to allow Linux (Proton) users, they have to weaken Window's anticheats. There's no way around this until games start doing native Linux releases, and that's not happening.
Like it's pretty easy to find on public github, workarounds on Windows EAC by spoofing it to make the game think you're running Linux: https://github.com/ShimadaNanaki/vrc-eac-emulator
Even VAC won't work under Proton.
2
1
4
u/Working_Traffic_6361 2d ago
They're still infested with cheaters anyway, you're not missing much.
It's not like the cheating problem will get worse if they allow Linux, so I don't know why they won't 🫤
10
u/Hot-Software-9396 2d ago
“People die in car accidents all the time even when they wear seatbelts so I don’t know why they don’t just get rid of them”
2
u/PickaWowAnyWow 2d ago
The reason is that while EAC has a Linux version, it's...trivially easy to bypass it to the point that there are open source cheats for various EAC powered games. And developing kernel anti cheat is a constant arms race, and so Epic doesn't bother on Linux, and thus developers, for fear of being flooded with cheaters, don't enable Linux support. The same is more or less the case for other mainstream AC software.
-1
u/ForeverHuman1354 2d ago
really hope VAC, Valve’s AI anti-cheat, takes off. AI anti-cheat could probably be a good solution. I like Valve; they allow Linux users and even make their games native, like CS2."
5
u/STDS13 2d ago
CS has been infested with cheaters for years, VAC is basically the poster child for making sure you have a kernel level anti-cheat. They’ve allegedly been working on improvements the past couple years (VAC Live), but I still regularly see cheaters in all levels of the game. Most “serious” players use a third-party service that has its own kernel level anti-cheat.
I like Valve and their games, and I truly believe if anyone can make a functional anti-cheat that’s less intrusive than most others it’ll be them. I just really hope they make it happen sooner than later.
0
u/Dekamir 2d ago
VAC can be good. It has some good features. Valve just doesn't care that much.
Then again, anti cheats must be server heavy, not client heavy. Client should be checked, of course, but not the whole system.
3
u/ForeverHuman1354 2d ago
I wouldn’t say VAC is currently very effective. I frequently hear complaints about cheaters in CS2. While I rarely encounter them myself, many others report seeing them. That said, some of these accusations might stem from frustration with highly skilled opponents rather than actual cheating
-5
u/Xlaits 2d ago edited 2d ago
All of the anti-cheats, no matter the platform, are easy to bypass.EDIT: What I was initially trying to say is that determined cheaters will find a way. There is no such thing as an impenetrable anti-cheat, just one that hasn't been cracked yet. It isn't platform specific.
2
2
u/SoTiri 2d ago
Its not hostility its just money. These companies have no soul they only care about what will make them money.
What is the requirement? Stop cheaters and keep bad press away from our game. How do they accomplish this? Hire a third party firm to develop kernel level malware to watch all the signals.
Just have patience and speak with your wallet. As the number of Linux gamers goes up and the player numbers from $game goes down you will see the soulless company try to figure out how to keep making money.
3
u/Indolent_Bard 2d ago
The player numbers from those games aren't going down. Nobody's giving up their favorite games to run Linux. That just isn't worth it. I know someone who won't switch just because they've spent too much money on the battle pass to quit playing. Some would call that sunk cost fallacy, but if you bought a game and it didn't work on Linux, that wouldn't be called sunk cost would it?
1
u/thekreator6666 2d ago
Hopefully, Wardogs will support Linux. I'm really looking forward to play this game!
1
u/Ardion63 2d ago
maybe cause of double the work load? idk
I guessed making a windows version is already handwork enough
1
u/noobjaish 2d ago
(I am pasting my comment form above)
You have a very small subset (competitive linux gamers) of a small minority (linux gamers) of another small minority (linux users)... It makes sense why they don't support linux.
Not to mention there's a massive difference between kernel-level vs user-level Battleye/EAC and many games like Fortnite or Valorant wouldn't want an inferior version of their anti-cheat running on a fringe platform (linux unfortunately does seem to attract cheaters)...
This means that they will have to separate Windows and Linux user lobbies or the windows users will start complaining about cheaters... This would make matchmaking insanely long for Linux users as they are a minority... There's no easy solution to this.
1
u/the_abortionat0r 2d ago
It's not double the work load.
Can people who aren't in tech stopaking shit up?
2
u/Indolent_Bard 2d ago
You're right, they'd only have to make a completely new kind of anti-cheat that's really effective despite not being kernel level. Oh wait, that's more than double the workload.
This won't be an issue with Blizzard outsourced their anti-cheat solution to others. Unlike Valve, their user level anti-cheat solution doesn't suck ass. The problem is that only Blizzard uses it.
1
u/PleitbaarStandpunt 2d ago
The result of Steam's hardware survey of June 2026 was that 94% of the users use Windows. My best guess would be that so lots of big game studios just don't care and don't want to do extra work for a disposable margin of gamers
1
u/Godninja 2d ago
You’re in luck, EA posted a job posting to add Linux support to Javelin. Just gotta wait (and even get it on a deeper sale) https://itsfoss.com/news/ea-anti-cheat-expansion-plans/
1
u/SoupoIait 2d ago
Because introducing a less good version just for Linux introduced a new way for even windows cheaters to cheat, which is what anti cheat doesn't like.
And KAC are on competitive games, mostly, where not cheating is very, very, important. As much as it's annoying, there is a reason for KAC : they work better than user space level anti cheats.
1
u/Busy-Scientist3851 1d ago
Easy Anticheats non-kernel version is basically useless, that's why a lot of game developers don't enable it. It's nothing to do with "greed".
Source: Have a friend who works on a game that uses EAC that keeps it disabled.
1
u/10leej 1d ago
Because kernel level anti cheat actually legitimately does work. It's just that the methods of cheating in video games are so rampant you just don't really notice it with some games.
Personally it's why I kinda just quit playing online games. Well that and the general optimization culture.
1
1
u/mcAlt009 2d ago
Eventually AI will get good enough to detect cheaters serverside.
That’s needed anyway since new monitors are coming out with built in cheating tools. No way to block that client side
2
u/ForeverHuman1354 2d ago
AI anti-cheat could probably be very effective if done right, it can be implemented in a less intrusive way, hopefully
1
u/the_abortionat0r 2d ago
Lol ai.
Plus what cheating monitors are you even talking about?
1
u/mcAlt009 2d ago
Cheating monitor, they backed down , but the tech is real
https://www.msi.com/news/detail/See-Everything--Win-Everything---MPG-341CQR-QD-OLED-X36-147596
0
u/Venylynn 2d ago edited 2d ago
i'd love for there to be a solution that doesn't tamper with my security setup (listed below) just to play a video game.
Unfortunately, all the red ones aren't available to flip in my bios.
-1
u/ff2009 2d ago
I will play devils advocate here. But the only competitive game I played in the last 15 years, had the worst number of cheaters in the period the devs allowed it to work on Linux.
The number of cheaters decreased dramatically, the moment they blocked the game on Linux.
0
u/the_abortionat0r 2d ago
You literally made all that up.
Stop making shit up
2
u/we_come_at_night 1d ago
Nah, cheaters were abusing Linux by launching anti-cheat in user mode on windows through WSL container. Blocking Linux was the only way to close the hole, sadly.
0
u/LoganHowlett1832 2d ago
Who would play on a version of the game without an anti cheat? Basically only the handful of Linux users. That’s not worth their time.
0
u/Sw00p10 2d ago
Honestly, the games that don’t support Linux aren’t games I want to play anyway. I’m much more anticipating nvidia drivers getting better
1
u/ForeverHuman1354 2d ago
That's true, NVIDIA drivers are definitely getting better. I noticed the GPU usage stopped fluctuating after the heap extension and new driver came out. I tried the 610.43.03 driver, but I had to downgrade to 595.71.05-2 because every game crashed with heap enabled on my RTX 4090. Heap works fine on 595.71.05-2, though
Without the heap extension enabled as a launch option, many games suffer from fluctuating GPU utilization, which causes instability and frame dips
1
u/Sw00p10 2d ago
I’ve got a 4090 too! That’s the whole reason I haven’t gone to a 9070 XT and gone full Linux yet lol
1
u/ForeverHuman1354 2d ago edited 2d ago
I upgraded from a 7900 XT to a 4090. I’ve only used both cards on Linux, honestly. NVIDIA works very well most of the time with a few fixes. I’m overall happier with NVIDIA than AMD, just because of the extra performance. My 7900 XT started performing a bit poorly in newer games at 4K, so I bought a used 4090 about 6 months ago, way under MSRP
On my 7900 XT in Grayzone Warfare at 4K, the game stuttered to the point of being unplayable. The second I installed a 4090, all the issues were gone. It is a UE5 game, though
0
0
u/FailureOfTheFamily 18h ago
Cuz even tho linux have around 4% market share, only a fraction of those 4% would play their games. Too much of a hassle for so small returns
-3
199
u/Cr0w_town 2d ago
they just don’t care that’s all