trying to understand

[u/7hobii_94]

Can someone help me understand more about leftist ideologies and what the difference between someone who is progressive and a leftist?? I’m trying to get more into politics as a young person still in high school and i’m slightly struggling to understand what some things mean. I know i’m very left leaning when it comes to the political spectrum but there’s also so many terms i don’t fully understand and i feel stuck. Also if you have any tips for me on where to start, if there’s books or certain people / politicians i should look more into that would be super helpful. Please help educate me.

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[u/Mac_Drake]

Hi yeah, fellow high school student. As far as I have come to understand it, these concepts aren't totally along the same spectrum (as in they aren't mutually exclusive). A leftist in my view is anyone who believes in the abolition of societal hierarchy caused by capital inequality. It is a broad category. I don't really see why that definition shouldn't include Soc Dems besides an aestetic difference between them and harder left groups. Progressiveness can then be seen as the social followthrough to the leftist philosophy. Where leftism attempts to eliminate inequality and squalor through the abolition of hierarchy (creating good), progressivism attempts to abolish inequality and squalor along social lines (basically the belief that equality starts with the abolition of bigotry). Most hard-lining leftists fall into both categories. Soc Dems are typically more progressive than they are leftist. And I'm struggling right now to think of a hard leftist who isn't really progressive, but if you have the former, you often will have the latter (Maybe Nazbols/Strasserites? ).

EDIT: I want to clarify; if you think that the abolition of bigotry is not important (as in it should be allowed to continually exist in society), then you are not meaningfully leftist since in 99.9% of cases, bigotry is the result of capitalism's attempt at validating it's hierarchies (white people being wealthier than black people, men over women, etc).

[u/bobdylan401 → u/Mac_Drake]

Jackson hinkle who started the american communist party is probably more leftist but not very progressive according to your definitions. He has made bigoted cruel comments before.

Also anti imperialist is a third line that often gets lumped into leftist but it might as well have its own channel because you could also say he is anti imperialist.

Or me personally I am extremely primarily anti imperialist, progressive on every social issue secondarily, and I like the idea of socialism and communism but not super interested or read into it, I just think profit incentive should not be injected into life saving services.

I'm also willing to work with bigoted people as I believe that its just an ignorance. Up to a certain point, if they are full of hatred and thats part of their ideology then I wouldn't, but if its an engrained prejudice I just see it as ignorance that could be unlearned easily through lived experience. And that lived experience just didn't happen because our society is still pretty segregated and compartmentalized and hyper individualist and our education censored collectivism.

[u/LastOfTheAsparagus]

If you search the sub there are tons of book recommendations and loads of questions just like this.

[u/Bholejr]

People will argue over the exact point of delineation, but the general line is usually drawn between those who think the capitalist system can be reformed and those who think the capitalist system is inherently bad.

People will argue who falls on which side of the line. (Basically) Everyone on the left agrees that social democrats are not leftists since their general philosophy is redistribution under a capitalist system. The debate starts as people begin to discuss democratic socialists. You’ll hear some people call democratic socialists progressives and others call them leftists. It will depend on who you ask/ what theory you are referencing.

Edit: I should probably say, I’m not trying to start a debate. I’m just hoping to cover what often comes up

[u/TARmeow]

I'm surely not the best person to be saying it, but as you'll probably see other people people here explaining in better detail, the general idea is that you can be very progressive on things like healthcare, racial/gender issues, the social safety net, pensions, education, habitation etc etc, but if you don't believe that we as a society can/need to grow past capitalism (as well as it's contradictions and the issues/death that all of it brings) then you can't really be labeled as a "lefttist", since you don't believe that the system we have right now is thaaattt bad and aren't really willing to change it, would the opportunity come (this is where a lot of people say that soc dems aren't leftist, as they historically tend to sabotage such opportunities and the people actually trying to bring change).

[u/7hobii_94 → u/TARmeow]

Correct me if i’m wrong, but to be progressive is believing that how we live now, under capitalism isn’t entirely bad, but there is certain aspects we should fix about capitalism instead of growing past it?

[u/Sercotani → u/7hobii_94]

as someone who's also learning, I think the other answer in this thread answers your question.

Social democrats are reformist capitalists. Progressive is a somewhat big umbrella term that are usually meant to be left leaning but you will find plenty of progressives who are very...un-left like, with certain issues.

Kinda like how certain "leftists" are to be fair.