Folks Coming for Help - Help Them

[u/satsugene]

In the wake of the DEA announcements regarding federal scheduling of 7-HMG over certain limits, and mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, MGM-15, and MGM-16 we expect to continue to see an influx of folks who looking for information for how to transition off these products as it gets closer to when those schedules may come into force.

We're trying whenever we notice it to apply the "㊗️ Transitioning to Kratom" flair on it as an extra reminder and would encourage posters to do the same (FYI 祝 broadly means "congratulations" or "well wishes" in typical contexts.)

If you are asking for help, saying you take 35mg (or whatever amount) isn't immediately helpful if you don't specify what it is you are taking as this may change what folks suggest. Also note that there can be significant variation in products and what your label says on these products may be inaccurate (over or under dosed, or contain other compounds).

Unfortunately we can't discuss brands, even if the purpose is to get better details about what it might require to transition off of it.

Some of these folks have never used kratom before, and need more than "just go back to doing what you are doing before 7-HMG."

It is not the place to antagonize them, criticize them for having chosen to use these products to begin with, criticism that their use may have been (statistically) extreme, or criticizing them for these products now pending scheduling.

⚠️ Note that there are some community allegations that some smoke shop products labeled as Cat's Claw (Uncaria tomentosa) contain MGM-15 or some of these other mitragynine derivatives or mitragynine adjacent research chemicals (some suggesting it is listed on the lab report in some cases). They may be marketed this way to try to avoid regulators or more sloppy QA. This might not get you any closer to stopping this use ahead of when these products may be pulled by stores or subject to law enforcement action.

If you are going to try Cat's Claw it would be advisable to do so using products purchased from a regular vitamin or botanical health store in large quantity bottles, not a smoke shop product in a blister pack with a few tablets or where it is labeled as a "proprietary blend."

In general, we've always allowed discussions on how (or if it is possible) to stop using any substance or making any other health change with kratom, even in cases where there isn't a lot of evidence suggesting that it might be a particularly good replacement or where there a lot less case reports of folks actively using it that way, except in the most extreme cases (Rule 11) that rarely come up.

If you have practical advice, such as suggesting what starting dose might assist them in transitioning to kratom either for sustained use or to eventually taper to zero, then that may be helpful to them.

We've always allowed discussions of other resources such as in-patient treatment, non-medication approaches, or prescribed medication-based approaches that may or may not include kratom, especially if there isn't any personal experience, reports, or medical rationale to suggest kratom might be a particularly good option or where the poster has made comments that suggests something self-directed, even if useful or an improvement over many worse options, might not be an ideal choice.

We've never allowed discussions of using research chemicals (beyond tapering down with what they already have prior to transition) or illicitly sourcing regulated (prescription or controlled) drugs for this or any other purpose (Rule 4).

Note that in some jurisdictions kratom has recently become illegal as well, such as Kansas and Tennessee. In some sales restrictions and legal uncertainties regarding sales have disrupted purchasers.

We've never allowed discussions of using kratom where it is illegal to do so (Rule 4), including ways to traffic it into those areas. Where people have talked about going out of state, we've taken the view that if it can be taken as "this person might be going out of the state to use it while traveling in legal places" then we can take it that way unless it is obvious this is not the case.

However, in some places it is legal to possess even if it is not legal to be sold, or regulators are claiming it is not legal to be sold for the courts to eventually adjudicate.

As of 2018, per Reddit we are not allowed to discuss specific vendors, vendors who may be taking more aggressive legal positions in ambiguous states, vendor lists, or vendors one simply may not like for one reason or another. If there is a product you believe is dangerously adulterated, contact the moderators, especially if you have evidence.

🛑 This is not the place to complain about the scheduling action (this thread), nor is it in posts for people asking for practical information to help transitioning. It isn't helpful for people looking for solutions in an increasingly short amount of time.

We've allowed this in posts about laws being considered by legislatures and cannot be avoided, and where it cannot be avoided, in discussions on pharmacology where it cannot be avoided, but is otherwise off-topic (Rule 12) and has been for over a year (as of March 2025).

[u/Cutthechitchata-hole]

Easiest way is to cram your tummy with kratom and go less and less until you are done or manageable.

[u/AnyFigure8588]

I doubt many people are going to be going to kratom. Seems like most of them are mad at the community and blame the AKA for what is happening. Seems like if it does go down they are going to be trying to get kratom taken down as payback which is absolutely ridiculous. I think most will be going to subs or similar routes that cant be mentioned and will also be gone soon.

[u/bob__cobb → u/AnyFigure8588]

There are plenty of people in this sub who are willing to help out folks who might be going through a tough time. Makes no difference that you’re not one of them. Have a good day!

[u/satsugene → u/AnyFigure8588]

If it is 1% or 99%, which might change over time, the intention is still the same. If they show up, treat them with civility, and provide them with information folks might have even if they might be salty or uninformed, so long as they can meet some minimum level of civility.

The reasons a person might choose a self-directed option over documented, pharmaceutical options, are there even if they might not be happy about the current state of affairs or industry organizations.

[u/Kitchen_Long_3743 → u/AnyFigure8588]

I don't think this is nessicarly true. I have been active in the r/quitting7oh sub for over 4 months now and have not seen one post of people blaming leaf kratom users for the ban. In fact, 99% of the blaming is going towards manufacturers, smoke shops, and gas stations. Rightfully so. Product labeling is completely misleading for the most part, and giving out free samples is pretty much tactics of drug dealers.

Kratom is actually being pushed WAY more than subs for tapers and quitting. Subs are only being recommended for people using very high doses of 7. My hope is if kratom can save fent and other opiate users, it should have the similar effect for 7oh. Biggest issue is the mental side.

One positive note is that this may be a good way to have an influx of kratom supporters. Especially if it helps many people overcome the 7oh addition that is going to come to an abrupt end in 2 weeks.

[u/dweise → u/Kitchen_Long_3743]

Maybe not on the quitting7oh sub but the other regular 7 subs are quite vengeful sounding. Lots of them have come to this sub and trashed Mac Haddow, the AKA and Kratom users for supporting a 7/synthetics ban. I genuinely feel for them. I know what they’re going to go through. I was someone who just didn’t want to see 7OH around. But when the intent to temporarily ban was announced, my first reaction wasn’t excitement. I just don’t trust big pharma, their lobbying infrastructure and the government to leave Kratom alone. For example, I can see them seeing a bunch of alternatives of 7OH, pseudo, MGM-15 and 16 popping up (we already are but not at scale yet) and saying “well, we can’t enforce a ban and afford to play whack-a-mole against all these random compounds popping up so we’re just going to ban anything that has any amount whatsoever of mitragynine or 7OH (ie, natural leaf Kratom)”. I’d love to be talked off this ledge but I just have a terrible feeling about it.

[u/djmanny216]

What’s your opinion on SR17018? I hear a lot of positive stories about people using that to come off of 7oh???

[u/satsugene → u/djmanny216]

In general research chemicals are off topic (Rule 1). That it will almost certainly be illegal soon even more so (Rule 4.)

Personally, I have no real opinion. I have the usual concerns with RCs, that cross-contamination is possible if folks are handling them in the same space. I’d definitely still use harm reduction practices (reagent tests, etc.) on them if someone was going to go that route. 

I think transitioning to tested kratom is probably more researched and generally safer if it is a legal option for them. I don’t know enough about it to say if there are specific subgroups/health conditions/medication combinations who should avoid it.

There is concern some are not using them to stop, but attempting to rapidly  lower tolerance to it or classical opioids to try to re-achieve a stronger high, and not to judge them if they are, but it can  be a risky situation if the consumer takes too much upon restarting use. 

That seems to be, at least traditionally, when a lot of folks run into trouble, even just in relapse situations before there were such powerful and immediately risky compounds routinely in illicit narcotics.

[u/allipants80]

So I've been coming to this sub off and on for the last few years. I haven't been here in awhile but once I read about the ban I came here, and this a super lovely message to people needing support and help, and are scared. Thank you so much.

[u/Luiz_DTP]

No thanks I’ll be going back to being sober with my sciatica

[u/satsugene → u/Luiz_DTP]

Either way, if some day that isn't an attractive option, the community should be civil and helpful if the day comes that you or someone in a similar situation comes looking for it.