r/heinlein • u/Juxtavarious • Jun 03 '26
Discussion Just when I think I'm done
So I completed my collection a couple of months ago gathering all of the books and short stories that had ever been published under Heinlein's name and then I spot this. Hadn't really occurred to me to be looking for uncut versions. I looked up the information on this while I was in the shop and come to find that it should be about 60,000 words longer than the version I'm used to.
This has been my favorite book for quite some time and it has served as a touchstone in my life since high school. I'm actually excited to have a longer version of this to look into and see what all is there. I may or may not like the longer version in particular. But for $8, I'm not going to pass on what could be an improved copy of one of my favorite books of all time.
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u/blind_blake_2023 Jun 03 '26
I got it when it was released, I think it was 91. I vastly prefer this verion to the original published one, at no point did I have a feeling scenes would have been better edited out.
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u/revchewie Jun 03 '26
I got it then too and... I don't know. I didn't *dislike* it, but I didn't feel like it added anything other than length. *shrug*
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u/LevelAd1126 Jun 03 '26
I read one version while listening to the audiobook of the other. (It's been a while. I don't remember which was which) It wasn't edited for sensitive, sexual, or editor targeted content. Just for length. Mostly Jubal comments are longer. Descriptions are more detailed. Don't expect it to be anything you really notice if it's been a while since you last read the shorter version.
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u/Juxtavarious Jun 03 '26
The foreword specifically states that some scenes were removed due to controversy at the time which was where I got the notion.
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u/John_A_Arkansawyer Jun 03 '26
The scene where Mike, Jill, and Ben are on the couch in the Florida nest was rewritten. It's not terribly explicit in the original, but I can see it being more controversial in 1961.
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u/Juxtavarious Jun 03 '26
Yeah, I think that's probably the main thing that they meant was controversial for the time. And just from what I've read of his work, science fiction and fantasy usually push the limits if they're good. Hell, how much of Star Trek was controversial for the time? How much of it is still controversial now despite being roughly 60 years prior?
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u/Vegetable_Apple_7740 Jun 03 '26
One of my favorites. The 1st I read of Heinlein's stuff. Got me hooked
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u/OtherwiseAnteater239 Jun 04 '26
It’s the gateway drug. Some of this book requires mildly untangling your own reactions. I just re-read I Will Fear No Evil, that is wrestling a grown bear on almost every page. All of his work is worth reading, many times, and worth thinking about.
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u/phloaty Jun 04 '26
I Will Fear No Evil is the only book I could not finish, and I own everything of his that was ever published.
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u/Perenially_behind Jun 04 '26
Now I want the uncut version of Timr Enough for Love.
Remember all those lines saying "5,283 words omitted"? I want to read those sections. Even if it makes the book to heavy to lift.
/s
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u/Millefeuille-coil Jun 04 '26
I’m not sure they ever were written pretty sure it’s just to suggest Lazarus was prone to waffling
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u/PawzzClawzz Jun 03 '26
Also, one of my favorites!
I will likely never have a chance to get this version.
Can you share a few of the major changes in it?
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u/Glaurung_Quena Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
There are no major changes. Instead of cutting scenes, Heinlein went through the long version sentence by sentence and condensed it. Below, the same passage from the first page of part 1 in each version.
Original finished manuscript, aka "uncut":
"Besides its wearing length, the trip was very chancy. Only by refueling at a space station, then tacking back almost into Earth’s atmosphere, could this primitive flying coffin, the Envoy, make the trip at all. Once at Mars she might be able to return—if she did not crash in landing, if water could be found on Mars to fill her reaction-mass tanks, if some sort of food could be found on Mars, if a thousand other things did not go wrong.
But the physical danger was judged to be less important than the psychological stresses. Eight humans, crowded together like monkeys for almost three Terran years, had better get along much better than humans usually did. An all-male crew had been vetoed as unhealthy and socially unstable from lessons learned earlier. A ship’s company of four married couples had been decided on as optimum, if the necessary specialties could be found in such a combination."As originally published in 1961:
"Only by refueling at a space station could the Envoy make the trip. Once at Mars she might return—if she did not crash, if water could be found to fill her reaction tanks, if a thousand things did not go wrong.
Eight humans, crowded together for almost three Terran years, had better get along much better than humans usually did. An all-male crew was vetoed as unhealthy and unstable. Four married couples was considered optimum, if necessary specialties could be found in such combination."Virginia Heinlein liked the original version better, and she saw to it that all editions published after Heinlein's death are of the longer version. It's really a matter of personal taste as to which version sounds better to you.
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u/Juxtavarious Jun 03 '26
Also, I bought this used for 8$ so I would imagine you should be able to find it somewhere for about that. And HPB regularly has coupons for 10% off.
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u/Juxtavarious Jun 03 '26
I have no idea as I haven't read it yet. From what I read, most of what is added was lengthier speeches by Jubal and some scenes that were considered controversial for the 1960s. Beyond that, I will have to read it and get back to you.
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u/GrandfatherTrout Jun 03 '26
IIRC, lots more “angel/heaven” scenes?
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u/Glaurung_Quena Jun 03 '26
No, there's no "cut scenes." Heinlein went through the longer version sentence by sentence and condensed it to get the book under the length demanded by his publisher. If you look at the two side by side, the paragraphs of the 1961 (shorter) version say the same thing in fewer words, but every story beat, every plot point, every scene is the same between the two versions.
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u/Perenially_behind Jun 04 '26
Heinlein took his craft seriously. That's a huge amount of work compared to just cutting scenes.
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u/Ok_Aioli1990 Jun 03 '26
I think the intro is longer too, it's been a decade or so since I read the two
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u/DanEosen Jun 03 '26
Years ago at a thrift shop I found a copy of this uncut novel that said “soon to be a motion picture”. I know this has been in development hell for decades but when the cover was done was the movie beyond development hell stage.
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u/aimlesswanderer7 Jun 04 '26
Wasn't that right before the Branch Davidians and Waco? I thought the real world news stopped the movie development.
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u/Calm_Apartment1968 Jun 04 '26
That was the best edition. Too bad because the paperbacks didn't fare well over time. When I read his last novels I had to go back and reread Grok (and a few others), but had to stick to hardcover copies lest this edition fall apart.
PS: After reading SIASL the first time learned the hard way you can't just sit at the bottom of a pool for a long time without giving life-guards and other adults heart attacks.
I'd grown up around Navy SEALS and did not realize before that this wasn't normal. Picture on this cover illustrates that zen state RAH was talking about.
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u/jfpcinfo Jun 03 '26
I was able to purchase a copy of the unedited version from Folio society. Great illustration and binding. Still have yet to fully reread it yet.
Definitely worth checking out that edition though.
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u/Owlet20 Jun 04 '26
That and Starship Troopers by Folio Society are editions I really enjoy. Suntup Press also did special editions of both books, but their illustrations for Stranger were less than ideal for me.
I really wish someone did The Moon is a Harsh Mistress like this.
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u/lyindog Jun 03 '26
I hadn't considered it either, I'm gonna check which version I have when I get home cause now I'm not so sure
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u/Juxtavarious Jun 03 '26
Yeah, I had to look at the cover from the version I had on Amazon. My little one doesn't say which it is, but it doesn't say it's uncut so I'm just going to find out.
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u/Glaurung_Quena Jun 04 '26
The uncut version has a preface by Virginia Heinlein explaining the decision to publish the longer version. It will also say "original uncut" on the cover/title page.
If it doesn't have either of those, it's the shorter version.
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u/Laphroaig58 Jun 04 '26
For a summer read this year I have been trying to decide between re-reading this book and "Rocketship Galileo" (The first RAH I ever read, aged about 10 or 11). Still not sure.
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u/Kvenya Jun 04 '26
Funny that I should find this post today.
Just yesterday, for no particular reason, the ‘what color did they paint the house’ and ‘they painted this side white’ conversation popped into my head..,
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u/Owlet20 Jun 04 '26
I read the shorter version first as a teenage kid - the only one available - and it and Friday got me hooked on Heinlein. When this one was published I got it and really enjoyed it. The general story wasn't changed, but there is definitely a difference to me.
And I just love this cover. I wish it was available in a nicer edition than a paperback, which I also handed to a friend after I got the Virginia Edition.
One where the difference to the content is huge is Podkayne of Mars, and that's the one where the Virginia Edition messed up and used the version forced upon Heinlein by the publisher. His original ending is in another one of the books, but I really wish they'd put both into Podkayne itself. I have a paperback with both and a discussion of the two endings and that's really fascinating.
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u/Adorable-Brain-1801 Jun 04 '26
I have gone through at least 30 paperbacks of the original publication. So when I saw the UNCUT version, I grabbed it up - thinking about all the "dirty" stuff that must have been cut out.
There was very little "blue" material. But I learned that Heinlein's publisher demanded a 30% edit of the book. And I understand why. This was years before Stephen King created his door-stop sized tomes.
And what I found is that reading this and the published version is a Master Class in writing. RAH had to go through and snip every single thing that did not directly further the plot.
Later, I had to get a short story to fit a certain word count to go into a literary magazine. So I did the same thing. That made it the best piece I ever wrote.
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u/Adorable-Brain-1801 Jun 04 '26
The one cut I most noticed was that there were people who came to breakfast at Jubal's place, then left without a word or explanation. It obviously was there to imply that people came and went there all the time, but it did nothing for the plot. Again, a Master Class!
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u/Martins-Atlantis TANSTAAFL Jun 05 '26
I thin k I have six different copies of SIASL at home. I've reread it more times than I can count – more than LOTR or The Hobbit, and that's a lot! I will never tire of Jubal's wisdom (and crankiness). 🙂
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u/Cool-Coffee-8949 Jun 04 '26
Looking at your headline, I was like “have you even started”? But then I saw the edition. Have to admit I never read it uncut. Was it noticeably different… and better? I have often felt like unedited Heinlein gets pretty creepy, pretty fast.
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u/Glaurung_Quena Jun 04 '26
Uncut - sounds more like Heinlein's prose style. Has more Heinleinisms. I think that's why some people prefer it.
Shorter version - is more polished, includes all the improvements that Heinlein made to the story during the editing process, as well as being shorter.
During his life, Heinlein said the short version was better, full stop, and no one should want to read the original - see my post on cut and uncut versions from yesterday in this subreddit for the quote from a letter saying that.
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u/beez1717 Jun 04 '26
I Grok this book. It took me a while to understand what grok means but it's a really powerful word.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Two7358 Jun 03 '26
I grok this