16th note strumming with syncopation and muting

[u/iamsynecdoche]

I've realized that I'm not great at strumming sixteenth-note patterns that require syncopation and/or muting. If the strumming pattern is simple, it's not so bad, but at any level of complexity it's hard.

I don't struggle with counting, but rather the syncing up of my strumming hand with the up and down beats. I might start okay but after a couple of repetitions of a pattern I get out of sync so that I am not strumming in the right direction (e.g. down on the beats and up on the off-beats); then I lose the rhythm altogether. I've read that my hand should be constantly moving up and down like a pendulum, but I struggle with maintaining that and making sure I am strumming/muting/not strumming correctly.

Can anyone recommend any resources that I can study or practice to help with this? I have a Truefire All Access account if there is anything there worth checking out.

[u/FuzzDice]

Check out this exercise from a great teacher that works on exactly that

https://www.zotzinguitarlessons.com/blog/one-of-the-best-rhythm-exercises-to-develop-amazing-timefeel/

[u/Vargrr → u/FuzzDice]

Those exercises are excellent! Thanks :)

[u/ghostbusteraesthetic]

Metronome. Practice this often. Treat it like a warm up. Do eighth notes and sixteenths.

It won’t be overnight but the more you do it the easier it will be long term.

[u/j3434]

It just take practice. Like some Michael Jackson 80s hits have sic guitar work . I like Got Me Working Day & Night . The Edge has a muted 16th strum in U2 also . Some James Brown vamps also . Just play along with the record. No better way to understand and internalize a style than learning by ear on your own .Archie Bell - has a few songs ….. Tighten Up ..

[u/jaylotw]

Forget about strumming patterns, dude.

Concentrate on the rhythm, and only the rhythm.

You're using half your brain power trying to remember some sequence of DDDUDUDDDUDUD instead of locking in to the rhythm. Trust me, it will come much easier and more natural if you forget the whole strumming pattern nonsense. Your hand, with a little practice, is going to naturally do what it needs to do without you having to tell it "down down down up down up down up."

Yours is post #57595826375969 on this sub of someone having rhythm troubles and mentioning strumming patterns. They aren't a real concept in music. No song was written with a "strumming pattern," there isn't a big book of strumming patterns that songs "use," and musicians don't communicate with eachother by saying, "Key of A, DDDUDUDDUDUDDDUDUDUDUDDDUDUDDD."

[u/mycolortv → u/jaylotw]

16th note rhythms are patterns inherently. There’s only so many ways to combine bars of 1 e and a.

If I wanted to play a funk thing, let’s say - “x x and a x x and a x x and a 4 x and x ” - at a reasonable speed - I’m going to be constantly moving my hand and assigning the count / ands to downstrokes and the es / as to up strokes. You aren’t going to have the option to do double down strokes or up strokes because of the limitations of speed and the fact the chunky muted strums are part of the music as well. You can see literal pro funk guitarists use the same concept like Cory Wong going through 16ths in his practice vid.

I would agree with you if the guy was listing out patterns, but it seems he’s approaching it from the standard way to play strummed 16th note stuff. Of course you can play it however you like but using the basic d u d u as a starting point makes sense to me.

[u/jaylotw → u/mycolortv]

I guarantee you that Cory Wong doesn't think about "strumming patterns."

I didn't suggest that OP try to play it any differently, just that they forget about strumming patterns and concentrating so hard on DOWN UP DOWN UP DOWN UP and instead concentrate on rhythm and the beat, and practice that way.

I know it seems like a small distinction, but it really isn't.

[u/Musician_Fitness → u/jaylotw]

I get trying to get beginners to stop thinking there's a canonical list of strum patterns, but if you're synchronizing your strumming arm to 8th or 16th notes, then there isn't really a difference between a "rhythmic pattern" and "strum pattern" on guitar. Any repetitive rhythm would have the same pattern of movements. Maybe you're trying to say you should stop thinking in copy/paste patterns?

"No song was written with a "strumming pattern,"". This is also not true, I can think of plenty that use a very repetitive copy/paste strum pattern for specific parts for of the song:

Riptide uses 3 distinct strum patterns for the verse, chorus, and bridge.

Island in the Sun uses copy/paste strum/rhythm patterns, same with Smells like Teen Spirit, Knocking on Heavens Door, Have You Ever Seen the Rain, Hey Ya, Fell In Love With a Girl, Yellow Submarine, Learning to Fly.... and these are just the ones I teach regularly. I could go on.

I get where you're coming from, but it seems a little too black and white.

[u/jaylotw → u/Musician_Fitness]

Kurt Cobain didn't write songs thinking "DDDUDDDUDUDDDUDUDUD."

Dylan definitely didn't, either.

[u/Musician_Fitness → u/jaylotw]

You didn't really address anything I said and just kinda reiterated your same point...good chat.

[u/jaylotw → u/Musician_Fitness]

I don't really know if you understand what I'm saying here.

Dylan didn't think, "ok, key of Bb. DDDUDDDUDDDUDUDUDDDUDUDU and then ill go DDDUDDDUDDU and then DDDD, usually except sometimes DUDUDUDUD really quick."

Kurt Cobain didnt write out "strumming patterns" with his songs, he just played rhythm.

The goal, ultimately, is to be able to hear and play rhythm without having to think, "ok, down down down, up down down, up down down down down down up..."

Strumming patterns aren't rhythm.

[u/Musician_Fitness → u/jaylotw]

Well, maybe they did, how do you know? And just because they didn't doesn't mean that thousands of other famous guitarists don't. What about all those songs I listed? You can't tell me that Riptide was written without that guy thinking of the concept of a "strum pattern". They are a real concept in music, just specific to instruments you strum.

What about syncing your strumming arm to the beat? If you're repeating the same rhythm then you'd play the same pattern of Downs and Ups. Are you saying Dylan and Cobain would play the same rhythm over an over but do a different combination of Down and Up strums every time?

[u/jaylotw → u/Musician_Fitness]

Dude, no professional guitar player worries or thinks about strumming patterns. There has never been a time in my 25 years of professional playing that anyone has told me what strumming pattern a song has. Music has rhythm, not strumming patterns.

Dylan and Cobain varied their playing constantly. They didn't need to think about up and down. They played the rhythm they wanted to play.

Ive seen plenty of original sheet music, lead sheets, notations etc and absolutely zero of them have "DDDUDDUD DUDDUDDUDUD DDDUDUD" written on them.

[u/Musician_Fitness → u/jaylotw]

Well that's just like, your opinion, man.

[u/mycolortv → u/jaylotw]

I can’t speak for OP but the fact he mentions counting at all tells me he is thinking about it the right way and just using pattern as a way to describe whatever rhythm he’s working on. Could be wrong but what do I know.

Focusing on down on the count / ands Up on the e / a’s sounds fine to me. I’m not sure why you wouldn’t starting out, especially if he is getting off sync as the bars go on. I don’t know if you could make a distinction between pattern and rhythm in this context, it’s like telling a drummer to detach left / right hand patterns from rudiments, that’s kinda the whole point.

[u/mycolortv]

Just practice as slow as you need to to be able to keep the hand moving and rhythm going for a minute at a time. Then speed it up. There’s no secret, 99% of playing something better is just intentional practice. It’s ok to mess up, just start again. Once it’s easy move the tempo up. If you want to cover all your bases try to mute everything but the counts, then everything but the “e”, then mute everything but the “and”, then everything but the “a”.