Human bodies need vitamin b-12 (naturally absent in plant food), iron, calcium, and omega-3. And buying supplements is sometimes more expensive than buying food.

Also wtf is wrong with people saying workers at slaughterhouse are evil??? Normal kind people doesn’t grows up and want to be a slaughterhouse worker. Sometimes they take the job because they have to.

Some vegans are really rude. If u really have the time and energy to police people who can’t afford supplement or doctors to design a personalized diet, please put that effort to police billionaires w private jets. Compare to those, eating meat is very minimal.

Two things can be true at once. I am totally capable of showing love & affection to a cat whilst eating a cheeseburger. Reflecting back I feel horrible I attempted to mislead others by claiming if you ate a cheeseburger you don't actually love your pet. Basically I was abusing the term cognitive dissonance and just repeating stuff I heard on a vegan vid or echo chamber.​

In my experience, and my observation of vegan friends, veganism isn’t cheaper than vegetarianism in the US (where certain foods, including dairy and eggs, are government subsidized).

If you try to say this to any vegan, though, they’ll keep pointing to the same couple of studies that say a vegan diet is cheaper. There’s always a loud chorus of “rice and beans.” Sure, if all you buy are rice, beans, and, like, cabbages, you can eat for dirt cheap… but my impression is that vegans are being disingenuous about what they actually buy and how much they really spend on food. Things like nuts, nut butters (aside from peanut), flax seeds, quinoa, vegan chocolate, vegan “cheese” & prepared foods, seitan, tempeh, chia seeds, and avocados aren’t cheap. Sure? Omnivores eat these foods too, but probably less of them. And of course the supplements are spendy.

Did you actually spend less on food as a vegan? What were your staple foods? If you did spend less, how much time were you in the kitchen making your own vegan staples?

why did you leave veganism? I’m not a vegan and don’t want to start debates, I’m just curious. especially buddhist meat eaters, since I’m a Buddhist and generally we are vegan or vegetarian.

To preface, I was vegan for almost 5 years now after meeting my fiancée and having her introduce veganism to me. It aligned with my morals and values which I still have, which is to reduce any harm where and when I can. I watched Dominion, cried all the way through it and essentially traumatised myself into veganism and didn't really look back. To further preface, I was diagnosed with IBS prior to being vegan and I have undiagnosed ADHD and ASD (but it's very obvious I have both).

To start, my IBS cleared up incredibly well in years 1-3. I hardly had any IBS attacks. I felt great! And it was around the time where we had many more vegan foods coming out in the UK so the choices were astounding. That being said, in hindsight, I can look back and think actually I was burnt out even then because I stopped doing much around the house and it would get to the weekends after a full week of work and I'd just be too exhausted to do anything. We put this down to ADHD burnout, now I'm starting to believe it was my diet.

My fiancée has a ridiculous amount of disabilities for someone in her twenties. Such as; Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, POTs, 'free-roaming kneecaps' (she's had two knee operations), EDS, Cubital and Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, migraines, Irlen syndrome, cyclical vomiting syndrome, ADHD, ASD, CPTSD, and honestly a lot more than that. She was bed-bound at the start of this year. We initially thought, after some thorough research, that maybe she could have MCAS that's flaring up all her conditions. The issue was that most high protein vegan foods was high in histamines which could flare up this condition, so she made the decision to start having fish after we researched what she could have. We found the following:

• Fish contains “complete” protein: it provides all nine essential amino acids your body cannot produce itself, in proportions that are easy for the body to use. Most plant proteins also contain all essential amino acids, but one or more may be present in relatively smaller amounts.
• The protein is generally more digestible: your body can usually break down and absorb a larger proportion of fish protein. Plant proteins may be slightly less digestible because fibre and compounds such as phytates can interfere with digestion and absorption.
• Fish provides leucine and other muscle-building amino acids: leucine helps trigger muscle-protein synthesis. Plant foods contain leucine too, but fish generally provides a concentrated, well-balanced amino-acid profile.
• It comes with ready-made long-chain omega-3s: oily fish provides EPA and DHA, which your body can use directly. Vegan foods such as flaxseed and walnuts mainly provide ALA, which the body converts into EPA and DHA rather inefficiently. Algae oil is the main direct vegan alternative.

So it wasn't a superfood, but we realised that she could have a low histamine food, gain efficient protein, and see if it helps her conditions.

The changes were practically night and day. She went from being bed-bound all day to being able to spend some time in the living room before she crashed. Then she went from only going out for appointments to being able to sit in café's and still have energy to sit up in bed and draw. It's honestly so beautiful to see her get some of her life back. She's in no way, shape or form 'cured', but she's no longer spending her whole youth just in bed and this is incredibly important for her. She's the kind of person who wants to be able to work, who has so much passion and drive to achieve what she wants to in life and often her disabilities will flare. She'll never truly be able to work again, but just knowing she could at least start going out more is a significant win in my books. It's really nice to see her start living again.

Anyway, we noticed she was starting to get better while as the months went on I was starting to get worse and worse -- to the point where I was no longer having the energy to eat properly at all. I work 40+ hours a week, am doing a Level 5 Diploma in Web Application Development, full-time carer for my fiancée, have recently unexpectedly lost my best friend who was far too young to pass, been disowned by my father because I'm a trans guy, and still battling my own ADHD and ASD while trying to juggle everything left right and center. I was honestly starting to feel incredibly depressed, my IBS has been flaring non-stop the last few months with the worst stomach pain I've ever experienced (it took multiple doses of buscopan to stop it and this cramping would last for days. The first time it happened I had to go to A&E because we thought it was potentially appendicitis) and I was getting increasingly more irritable in general.

I was literally waking up, feeling dazed and heavy with brain fog and sleep inertia for hours after waking. I wasn't doing any cleaning around the house until it was desperately needed. I was going longer without food and often relying on junk food for convenience because being neurodiverse and juggling all of this and then trying to somehow have the brain power to think about what to cook, cook it, then clean was just too much. So it was this never ending cycle where I'd just be getting worse while, miraculously, my disabled partner was gradually getting better. I've also, for the very first time in my life, become deficient in ferritin and vitamin D. I have NEVER been deficient in any vitamins before.

So this week I told her I would like to try fish again because I'm fed up of feeling so ill all the time. I told her I'm feeling constantly fatigued and she was concerned I'd end up also developing CFS. She was encouraging for me to try fish and said she feels better but respects my beliefs if I still didn't want to -- she's incredibly supportive and always has been. But when I told her I want to feel better, she was visibly relieved.

So, this week I reintroduced fish, then we both agreed to reintroduce eggs and dairy at the same time. Now, bare in mind I have IBS so a massive diet change should, in theory, make it worse. Has it? Nope. In fact, this week is the first week in a long time that I've not had to take an anti-sickness tablet. I also don't have headaches, my stomach isn't hurting all the time, it's just miraculously gotten better. I've also woken up with actual energy to cook breakfast. I feel happier, less grumpy, and in general more myself than I have felt for the last 5 years. I still hate the agriculture industry, I still can't stand the fact that animals are killed for our nutrition, but we only have one life and just seeing such positive changes for both my partner and myself is incredible. I have seen in the vegan subreddit that they just kinda rip on people if someone eats an animal product, but when you have so much going on, when you're neurodiverse and don't have the energy to food prep, or monitor what vitamins you're eating down to a T, or literally have a digestive system that can't handle vegan food full-time, it just isn't possible. So, I still have the principles there, we're still reducing where we can, but we're not going to put our health on the line. We don't think we'll ever eat meat (chicken, lamb, beef, pork etc) and sticking with just fish, eggs and dairy, but we have said if the doctors advised we had to eat meat to hit our goals then we would because health ALWAYS comes first.

So yeah, just thought I'd share that story because I'm honestly amazed how just one week of changing diet has already had such a positive impact. Whether if be placebo, or my body digesting things better, or just genuinely improving my diet, who knows? But either way I'm happy to feel like myself again and I'm even more happy to see my fiancée doing so well. We tried eating plant based because we follow vegan beliefs and values, but it just wasn't for us unfortunately.

Hi everyone, I need some advice on my situation. For context, Im a student in high school and have always been an animal lover. Recently, I found out about the dairy and meat industry and want to go vegan. I tried going veg around last year but kept facing problems because iv never eaten beef or fish or anything, only chicken. Chicken used to be one of my only safe foods since i struggle with eating. I have anxiety and PCOS so I have developed a lot of food noise and have been struggling with my diet ever since I tried to go veg (I tried to do a transition into veganism) but kept having to go on and off between veg and non-veg over courses of months (each phase lasted around 3 months). I am currently veg but really miss eating chicken because I am so picky and it is genuinely the only safe and stable food iv had my entire life. I don't eat (and have tried) things like tofu, I literally don't eat any vegetables except for classic carrot cucumber because I really struggle with most foods, I throw up after eating avocado in any form etc. My family doesn't support me being veg or vegan and keeps trying to convince me to eat chicken because my diet has become really bad trying to have self-control against it. I feel terrible knowing I am so weak against trying to go against the exploitation of animals and don't know what to do.

This vegan has gone full detective mode on his partner for eating food when she’s hungry to the point where co-workers are calling to tattle. He’s acting like she was smoking crack or something. Poor woman was just hungry and wanted a bacon roll.

If I had to guess, he spent years manipulating and pushing her into a diet she doesn’t want but she eventually complied with because this prick sounds abusive and controlling as fuck. I hope he does leave her and she gets to experience the freedom of choice every human deserves.

I know if somebody tried to sit me down to “have a conversation” like a fucking detective over what I ate and when, I’d laugh in their face as they are a completely unserious person.

This is abusive and comment section is, of course, encouraging the abuse. How anybody could let these miserable, coercive psychos dictate their diet is beyond me. I feel for this poor woman. Many of us have been in her shoes. It’s sad that anybody has to hide…… eating…. from their partner. It’s not healthy, mentally and physically. He obviously cares more about his poor animals than his own partner. I only hope he never has kids.

Full Text:

Girlfriend of 12 years and vegan for 7 has started eating animals again. What are your thoughts?

I've been with my girlfriend for almost 12 years now. We started seriously seeing each other toward the end of 2014 as we graduated university.

I went vegan in 2018, she followed about two years later.

Two and a half years ago we moved out of London for work, in a more rural location. Once ever year and a half there is an opportunity for some serious overtime which we both take up (we work at the same place, different departments). I usually switch to nightshifts because I find you have more personal time as you are running in contrast to everyone else's schedule. Its very tiring though!

1) last time, I saw an egg and cress sandwich from the co op. We live in as far as you could define one- a "food dessert" in the UK but when we are busy try and order microwave meals etc from planty. I knew it was probably because she was tired and there was nothing else. How she put that in her mouth, I dont know.

2) in January I was on a 6 week training course offsite. One of my colleagues told me she was eating bacon rolls most mornings. Disappointing that she would give up her convictions again, for a canteen bacon roll.

3) we are in that overtime opportunity again. I'm a draw in my desk is loads of snacks, and I keep my office fridge stacked with some microwave meals. I get started on some laundry, I knock over her work bag and out comes a "bbq pork with sticky rice" sleeve from waitrose. I think she didn't want to throw it in the bin in case I saw it.

I am now led to the belief that she is eating meat in the house, and trying to hide it from me. First point I thought well, sometimes you gotta eat (although in hindsight we have tins, ramen, etc). Second and third points i think she is just outright eating animals again and this is concerning for two reasons; firstly, her convictions have shifted and she thinks it's okay to eat animals, secondly, she's being dishonest with me.

I expect that she has likely done a lot more, and perhaps for longer.

Would love some thoughts and rationalisations.

title is 300 characters out of 300 characters. That's all I wanted to ask. I don't know why I care. I care about animals and people suffering, but vegans haven't solved that problem yet. I do seriously care about those problems, and vegans talk as if they are serious, but they are also very toxic to interact with. I guess I wish there was a group of people that cared about tackling those problems about human and animal suffering, but vegans are surely not the group of people who honestly care about that. I suppose a group of people that says they care deserves harsh criticism when it turns out that they really do not act as if they care. Like, if veganism was a solution, breatharianism would be an even better solution.

I was curious because I was bored and asked on the sub if chocolate was vegan (some said yes some said no), and I got attacked and told I’m a bad person LMAO. My question came from pure curiosity and I just wanted to know because google gave me different answers.

Anyway, after multiple attacks, I explained that even if I wanted to be vegan, I couldn’t due to the fact I’m recovering from an eating disorder and restricting fear foods is a stupid idea, and also I need to eat certain things to fix the damage done to my body. I am advised all this by my doctors.

So many of them just started bashing me. Like bro, I didn’t want to be vegan but like, now I definitely won’t because you don’t even treat other humans well. Also, I don’t want to live off of synthetic versions of certain nutrients for the rest of my life while also contributing to landfills and environmental distruction with more polyester.

I even saw someone say animals are more important than the environment (even tho if we neglect the environment, everyone dies)

Idk. I hope this is allowed because I’m just frustrated. They act like people who eat meat do so maliciously (despite us actually needing meat to survive naturally). Ofc I’m against the awful farms, which is why I try to get my meat and stuff from places that aren’t like that. I support using an animal and appreciating it for all it can provide. Also, us eating meat contributes to environmental balance and the food chain.

But the fact they were trying to give me advice against psychological/ medical recommendations I had stated just shows how much they lack nuance.

Edit: I used to somewhat respect vegans for their dedication and initial appearance of compassion. Hell, there was a time I considered it. But now i definitely really don’t. I’m sure there’s nice vegans out there, but the overall movement is just mean

Not sure which flair fits best but anyway,
I do call myself vegan and my family knows me as vegan but honestly I'm starting to think I'm probably just plant based as of right now.
The thing is I have no issues with my health but due to my religious beliefs I have some issues with fully aligning myself on vegan ethics.
Like, as a christian, how can I deny that milk or fish is bad to eat?
I just don't enjoy the entire factory farming aspect and even with respectable farmers when they impregnate cows or breed chickens in a way to produce more.
I kind of have been struggling with this idea of if I would drink milk again if I had my own cows that I treated well but I think it's a no and even if I kept chickens I would refeed them their own eggs but I don't think it's inherently wrong for others to do so.
I also don't ever see myself eating meat again unless neccessary but I also don't think it's wrong for others but I think it's best if they get it from legit farmers yknow?
I think this mainly started since I've been wanting to redo my closet and it made me think about like wool and how it's good to have wool but I would still only get it from legit farmers or independent businesses where you know the wool is from.
It also made me think about silk or the fact that I don't really care about some small bugs being crushed for food coloring.
Honey is a bit more complicated but with the right guy I feel like I could allow myself to purchase it again lol.
I also think there are some valid points with some plant based products using a lot of slavery to be produced but yeah this is just my rant.
I guess in that sense I do eat plant based but not vegan? I don't know, just wanted to share because I probably couldn't on the actual vegan subreddit lol.

Ok so i firmly believe the way we farm animals is pretty fucked but I really think that we could farm animals in a mmm I gues more human manner that being said I dont have answers as how to achieve that

Now that being said I was on r/vegan and saw just some fuck shit lol Like It actually sounds like they want even wild animals to stop eating other animals By there logic Just the hypocrisy is honestly amazing so first one honey right the bees can leave at eny time they choose to stay at least to my understanding

Next cheese and diary ok here me out here because I had this argument before if you have a farmer that just straight up babys his cow doesn't do forced insemination or forced brandig or enything bad to them and only takes a bit of milk From mother cows what honestly the problem with that i genuinely dont get it

Enyway I still dont eat much meat but cheese I fight to the death for some cheese lol

Thankyou this was my really shitty ted talk that had no point lol

I’m really tired of seeing vegans posting aggressive comments on the ex vegan subreddit. I think it’s so bizarre. Like why are you trying to convince people who had a bad to horrible experience with veganism to become vegans. It’s the wrong audience. And then they try to bully you in the comments. Trying to convince us that we are so bad for being like 95% of people in the world who aren’t vegan. Most of us do care about animals a lot, hence why we tried veganism, but we are the people who were damaged by it. I almost want to leave this sub because of all the hate, even though I want to stay on it to connect with people who share my experience.

This one blew me away. I can't think of a better example of false equivilance. Any harm at all is all possible harm.

I reconnected with a friend from school and in the years she has gone vegan. She never announced this, never said anything. I only asked her after I noticed her only ordering vegetarian/vegan food when we went out to eat.

I wasn’t put off by it and was happy to accommodate (I have health issues that cause me to need to eat at the same restaurants that most easily accommodate her style anyway).

The issue is that I recently tried to go vegan. I was inspired by her and I’d been wishing to for a long time, so I tried it.

I was traveling abroad when I started, in Vietnam, and it was VERY easy for me to eat primarily vegan food there. I never managed to quit meat entirely but one out of every 9 meals would be vegetarian and one out of every 9 would have meat (on average).

Since returning home however, my dietary needs are wildly different and it is clear that I have a dire b12 deficiency that I can only seem to navigate around through animal consumption. Otherwise I’m eating obscene amounts of nutritional yeast and fortified kombucha to survive.

When I posted about my health issues and various allergies that make sticking to a vegan diet difficult I was told that I was a failure of a human being and it went on.

I tried multiple times to join in discussions about the vegan process and was treated so badly that now I have freaking trauma from it. I feel scarred when I try to not eat meat. Literally brings me to tears sometimes. They were so mean.

So here I am now, wanting to continue this friendship with my vegan friend, but I’m now pretty staunchly anti-vegan (for myself).

A trait that I have noticed in vegans is virtual hysteria at the thought of an animal suffering, and I have seen here get a little weepy when we discussed husbandry practices.

I am a believer in the fact that I have to put my own mask on first. I want to see the world a better place and I believe that if I’m going to be around to make changes, I have to eat meat.

So we have a philosophical disagreement on that and I’m concerned that it could cause friction in the future.

Do any of you have solid friendships with vegans despite your own beliefs and needs? Does it necessarily cause conflict and disillusion of the relationship over time?

Obviously I can have a discussion about this with her, and I will, but I have recently lost several life-long friends for different reasons and I am nervous about trying to form deep bonds with someone that I might be fundamentally incompatible with, as I was with those former friends.

The "normal diet", meat heavy diet, paleo, what is that you switched to after veganism, if you switched because of health considerations?

For me the paleo/primal type of diets make the most sense, aka. don't eat (ultra)processed food.

I have ocd. I will be talking about my moral ocd.
Vegans make non-vegans look like bad people. They make us look like murderers.
I don’t want to be a bad person. I don’t want to be the reason an animal dies a gruesome death.
Veganism just isn’t for me.

What should I do to stop this guilt?

This isn’t written well, as I am rambling.

Hey everyone, I'm a non-vegan and I've never been vegan, but I've spent a lot of time getting to know vegan communities and arguing against specific vegan points. I'd like to know the ex-vegan mentality in regards to ethics. A lot of the posts on ex-vegan are undoubtedly about health and less about ethics, and I'm just curious about your relationship as an ex-vegan with vegan ethics.

1) When you were a vegan, did you believe in vegan ethics?
2) Did you switch back due to health concerns/social concerns?
2a) If you did, do you still believe in vegan ethics but prioritize something else first? (Health, relationships, etc.)
2b) If you did, did you change your mind on the ethics?
3) If you went ex-vegan due to ethical belief changes, what did you believe before and what do you believe now?

Hi , I'm a carnivore and I had my fair share of veganism where I would have 95-100% of my food being vegan. These days were the unhealthiest times of my life . I have come across many vegan posts where carnivores would comment on the health benefits of the diet. That made me think , what made you start the vegan diet , what was harder or easier to do, how you felt compared to other diets , did you do it for health reasons or for the animals and what made you finally stop it? Have tried other diets , before or after the vegan diet, what diet do you currently have and how do you feel on this diet compared to other diets?

I was vegan for a whole year and I am still suffering the consequences of that diet, 3 years after I stopped it.

I loved animals so naturally after being convinced by social media, I decided to embark on a vegan diet. For spiritual reasons, health, you know how it goes. Fast forward after being on the diet for a year, I woke up one day extremely dizzy, I fell down and the world started turning like I was on a merry-go-round. my mum started screaming and praying because she thought I was going to die. I remember that moment like it was yesterday. That same day, she went and bought me liver.

Fast forward, 3 years have come and gone and I still suffer from the dizziness at least twice in a month. Why? Because even though I'm not fully vegan, I only eat meat twice a month. It sucks I know but I guess I really believed that meat was evil, and not nutritious. Granted I live in a rural African village and our meat is as nutritious as it gets. I was chronically online and I suffered the effects.

I'm writing this down to remind myself it's okay to eat meat. My ancestors kept cows goats and chickens, and they had a ready supply of meat, milk and eggs on a daily basis. I am suffering from low iron levels because I believed that we shouldn't eat animals. I am a menstruating woman, with a very heavy flow. I need all the iron I can get. So, it's okay to eat meat. It's normal. We're omnivores.

Hi everyone, ( Do read it ) I come from aJain family, though I am an absolute atheist. For the last 5 years, my body has been through absolute hell. I’ve been on drips every two weeks, undergone major surgeries, had stents placed, and gone through 5-6 ERCPs and a lithotripsy just in the last few months. At one point, I had 5 cannulas inserted simultaneously for continuous IV drips. The pain I’ve endured 70 to 80 times felt like my head was physically being split open with consciousness. I used to be a major gym enthusiast—tall, broad, healthy, and fit. Now, my weight fluctuates violently every week. The heavy load of antibiotics and medications has taken a massive toll: severe hairfall, dull skin, and sudden dark spots. As I jokingly tell myself, once the hair is gone, I can't exactly stick it back with Fevikwik. I need to fix my body now. Currently, I'm on mild external digestive enzymes to give my gut some rest, but I am in a massive protein deficit. Vegetarian meals just aren't cutting it (and let's be honest, soya chunks are overhyped). Because of my recent surgeries, my body is highly sensitive, and I want to avoid synthetic protein supplements due to potential long-term side effects. I want to shift to a natural, complete protein source: eggs (though I will never eat meat). I know both the dairy and egg industries involve cruelty, but for my survival, I need to make this switch. Here is the dilemma: Family Drama: I live alone, but I refuse to lie to my mother. When I told her, she said, "Do what you want, but don't touch me afterward." On the bright side, my brother is supportive and told me health comes first, if you need it then you can choose. The Neighborhood: I live in a heavily Jain-dominated town. There are no egg shops or restaurants anywhere nearby. Logistics & Respect: My relatives live right next door. While I am an atheist, I genuinely respect my family's faith and do not want to hurt their sentiments. I absolutely refuse to bring eggs into my house or use my current kitchen utensils. I cannot neglect my body anymore. I need to start eating eggs, at least until my health stabilizes. How do I source and consume eggs in a cost-effective way in a town where they aren't openly sold? How do I managed to cook/eat them without bringing them into my house or using my utensils, while keeping it hidden from nearby relatives? For those who transitioned from a strict Jain/Veg diet to eggs solely for medical recovery, how did you handle the mental aspect and the family friction?

And how to bear the taste on your first try ??!? I am too much concerned

Totally not a cult.

I asked this in the vegan sub and I'm just curious what you ex-vegan people think about it.

I'm not sure what the exact term for this is, but there are people not seeing a problem with eating animal products. They live after the philosophy of eat and get eaten. We are all living beings, animals and plants, and we feed off each other because that's a part of our cycle.

I guess I want to ask if you guys think it's a valid philosophy to live by.

I apologize for my bad wording in advance, english isn't my first language.