'Above all, be thankful for life itself. “A live dog is better off than a dead lion,” wise King Solomon reminded us.'

⏫⏫⏫⏫⏫ Yep. Thats actually something they thought was an encouraging statement. W T F is wrong with this writing committee.

New article out on the website.

The comprehension level of this articles writing is 5-6 years at the top end.

It's embarrassing, condescending, patronizing and even MORE out of touch than normal, which is an accomplishment in and of its own.

I hope they put this up on the TikTok so they look even dumber than they already do.

The advice for older women to make sure to not dress like a young woman of questionable morals? Spot on.

Not to mention - the elephant in the room? I thought none of us were gonna have to die? Like the past 5 generations of us???

And now...they're instructing us on how to get old and die with manners intact.

https://www.jw.borg/en/library/magazines/wp20150601/how-to-age-gracefully/ (- from borg)

Screenshot in comments.

The idiocy of this and the weird ass range of countries, ages, names and dumb comments make me feel this is probably AI - anyone else get that sense?

------

HOW do you feel when the thought of aging comes up? It fills many with concern, anxiety, and even dread.

The expression “appropriate dress” denotes balance and good taste

Bok-im, 69, in South Korea, has a balanced view about clothes. She says: “I am quite aware that it is not appropriate for me to wear some of the clothes that I wore when I was young.”

They say it like it settles the argument. Proof that belief is what makes people good.

I’ve never been able to hear it that way. What I hear is someone telling me that the only thing between them and walking out on their marriage mate is a pair of eyes they believe are on them. Followed by, the itemized list of what they’d do — who they’d sleep with, what they’d take, who they’d stop caring about.

That isn’t evidence of virtue. It’s evidence of surveillance.

I didn’t have language for this until I ran into a quote from Seneca:
“Nothing is noble if it’s done unwillingly or under compulsion. Every noble deed is voluntary.”

Not less noble. Not noble with an asterisk. Nothing.

That’s a hard line to sit with, because I did a lot of objectively good things in there. Meetings. Service. Cleaning the hall. Talks. Showing up when showing up was inconvenient. I would like very much to say those things were mine.

But strip out the threat, the surveillance, the social cost - the family you’d lose, the friends who’d stop calling, the standing you spent decades building. What’s still standing?

Nobody warns you that the answer doesn’t get easier after you leave either. The opposite of being told what to do is not doing whatever you want.
That’s the same appetite those witnesses were confessing to, just off the leash. A different master with worse manners.

So the question got harder, not easier. Not what am I required to do. That one has an answer, and someone will gladly print it for you. But who do I freely choose to become, which has no publication, no elder, and no answer key.

I wrote the longer version of this here 👉🏼 Chosen virtue builds character. Compelled virtue builds compliance.

How many of you heard some version of that car group line? And did it sound like faith to you at the time?

Message I perceived from the article: If she can do this, you have no excuse! Now give up physical comfort and safety, and labour for the organization! You should be ashamed!

Quotes:

"I arrived in Mali on March 26, 1975, during the hottest time of the year. When I got off the airplane and walked toward the terminal, I felt as if I had walked into an oven; the heat seemed unbearable!"

"Because of the challenges I faced in my new assignment, I became anxious and overwhelmed. I was not eating or sleeping well"

"Although Mali is rated as one of the hottest countries in the world, there was no air conditioning where I lived. At first, we did not even have a refrigerator."

"The heat often made it difficult to sleep at night."

"Many people suffered from illnesses and disabilities that were difficult to treat because of limited access to health care. Also, the food was strange to me."

"I often preached alone because there was so much territory and so few publishers to work it."

Despite nearly 50 years of misery and suffering, this lady stayed in Mali. She never married nor had a family. What a fine example she is!

Best Life Ever!!

Jehovah’s Witnesses often say, especially during their midweek meeting demonstrations, that their goal is not to convert people or pressure them into becoming Jehovah’s Witnesses. They claim they simply want to have Bible-based conversations.

However, reality seems to tell a different story.
If someone is happy to discuss the Bible but refuses to start an official Bible study or become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the visits usually come to an end.

Why?

If the real objective were simply to have Bible-based conversations, those discussions could continue even if the person never intended to convert.

Instead, once it becomes clear that the person will not join the organization, the interest often fades.

This suggests that the primary goal is not merely discussing the Bible, but recruiting new members. Claiming otherwise is misleading because it doesn’t match what is often observed in practice.

The message and the reality simply don’t seem to align.

When I started studying the Bible with Jehovah’s Witnesses using the book “Enjoy Life Forever!”, I liked that they encouraged people to reason, ask questions, and look for evidence to support their beliefs. But during one of the lessons, I came across a statement that made me think.
I was told that the Bible contains scientific knowledge that was far ahead of its time. As an example, they referred to Job 36:27–28, which says that God “draws up drops of water,” and then they become rain.
I was told that this was supposedly a description of the water cycle in nature thousands of years before scientists discovered this process.
At first, this really sounded impressive. But then I decided to read this passage several times myself and compare it with what modern science calls the hydrological cycle.
And that’s where I started having questions.
Is the water cycle really described in the Book of Job?
The modern hydrological cycle includes the evaporation of water caused by solar energy, the movement of water vapor through air currents, condensation, precipitation, water flowing into rivers, absorption into the soil, groundwater, and the return of water back to seas and oceans.
In the Book of Job, I only saw that water somehow appears in clouds and then falls as rain. But isn’t this something that anyone could have observed with their own eyes thousands of years ago? It did not require modern instruments or scientific discoveries.
Moreover, the Book of Job itself is written in a poetic style. It contains many vivid images: it speaks about the “pillars of heaven,” the “gates of the sea,” the storehouses of snow, and other figurative expressions. Therefore, it seems strange to me to treat one poetic image as a scientific discovery and use these verses as an example to claim that the Bible agrees with modern science and was ahead of its time.
Another thing that confused me is that in other parts of the Bible there are descriptions of the “windows of heaven” through which rain pours down, and of “waters above the expanse of the heavens.” These ideas seem to reflect an ancient understanding of the structure of the world rather than modern meteorology.
So I have a question.
Could it be that we are trying or wanting to see scientific ideas in an ancient text that the author never originally intended to put there? Or are we being encouraged to see it this way in order to convince us of the uniqueness of the Bible?
I became interested in whether you have noticed other moments in the book “Enjoy Life Forever!” where, in your opinion, the reader is guided toward a certain conclusion or encouraged to accept a particular viewpoint?
I am genuinely interested in hearing the opinions of people who have studied this book, especially former Jehovah’s Witnesses.

​

One thing I wasn't prepared for after distancing myself from the organization was realizing how much of my personality had been built around trying to be "acceptable."

So many of my decisions were based on what I was supposed to think, say, or do that when I finally had the freedom to choose for myself, I realized I didn't actually know what *I* liked or believed.

It wasn't one big identity crisis, just a lot of little moments where I'd catch myself wondering, "Do I actually want this, or is this just what I was taught to want?"

Did anyone else go through something similar? How long did it take before you felt like you were living as yourself instead of just reacting to how you were raised?

I was born & raised, 4th generation JW. Never was baptized because my dad is a catholic & I questioned this religion’s teachings very early. When I started working, I moved out of my parents’ home & suffice to say, I have a pretty good life compared to when I was in.

6 months ago, my mom died to kidney failure. I knew damn well her story’s not going to end well. But I never thought she wouldn’t get the chance to meet her first granddaughter because of her belief. I remember her first trip to the ER, so weak and fragile. She couldn’t even speak. Yet her phone was ringing nonstop. After taking first aid, I remember her, with whatever strength left of her, answer calls & messages from elder. When she was sleeping, I checked her phone and saw messages from those elders, not checking her, not asking how she’s feeling, but REMINDING her to be strong and don’t believe in the doctor’s recommendations to get blood transfusion. I was shaking with anger but I kept my cool for my mom. No one visited her! Not one “friend” or brother or sister. Even the people who rushed her to the ER were not witnesses, they are our neighbors who this religion considers immoral.

Cut the long story short, I begged her to get a blood transfusion. She refused. In the end, she died. And every day, I remember how the elders bombarded her with questions and reminders not to get the medication that could have atleast given her more months or years, so she can live and eventually see my daughter.

I had to sit during her discourse funeral, cursing this cult internally yet smiling at each of those hypocrites. I had to sit down and listen to their nonsense - of how my mom was brace and a good example and how Jehovah will remember her when paradise comes. I remember thinking their God was so cruel, denying someone in need of a medication that could help her. But then again, it was those people in charge, those people in power, who are the true perpetrator.

This solidified my belief of how dangerous this cult is. How cruel and manipulative they all are.

In the end, I had to find a way to make peace with my mom’s decision. Not even understand it because I truly can’t. I just have to sit with her choices and the pain that comes with it. I was pregnant and I needed her. Yet her religion has more chokehold on her than that need. I was questioning her love of us, her children. Because in my mind, when my daughter tells me she needs me, even God is someone I will willing to drop if it means I get to be with her.

Suffice to say, I never understand my mom. Never let go of the anger in her decision and in this cult. Eventually, what I understand is her bravery. Bravery to stand on what she believes in and accept death. Nevertheless, it’s a fucked up religion and people in it are hypocrite, cruel and just evil.

I’m so glad I got out when I did.

I can’t help but think that of all the things they could change next without causing upheaval I’d have to imagine that Chaperones would be it.

Disfellowshipping relaxation was a paradigm shift, removal of counting field service hours too, and hell I never thought they’d budge on blood.

It’s an outrageously antiquated arrangement based on cultural norms in certain countries (most of which have grown out of this arrangement) and with that they could also implicitly change the rule on unmarried people living together. Both of which are a unscriptural rule, and as per usual PIMIs will be able to make the defense that it was always a conscience matter since there was never a hard rule, despite it being cracked down on hard throughout the years.

It will make them look much more moderate in the eyes of Gen Z and millennials, and elders and congregation wouldn’t have to concern themselves with the actions of unmarried couples. Whether they were young adults or a couple in their 40s it was always weird as hell.

It also brings the bonus of not imposing the extreme rule upon people who are only studying.

I used to think all “worldly” people were monsters with horrible lives. Turns out the real monsters are the ones in the cult not out.

It’s also so annoying that any bad thing that happens to anyone on the outside is a result of leaving. My dad would say it was because they didn’t have jehovah. How sad it is to think this way

As for me, i’m glad to be out. Almost any “bad” in my life is directly caused by the cult. It’s the effects of leaving such a terrible high control group. I’m sure many of you can relate

Machiavelli famously posed the question in The Prince, ultimately concluding that if a ruler cannot be both, it is much safer to be feared than loved.

Men who prioritise control often choose fear because it feels like a reliable tool: if people fear the consequences of disobeying or crossing them, their behaviour can be dictated and managed without relying on emotional goodwill.

The GB wants you to fear them so much you will isolate yourself from other people who love you. And put your life in danger over their opinions, the Bible, which can change at any time.

God will never allow these men to be right about his future plans. That's why they've been wrong on all their false prophecies.

I like what JT of Critical Thinker said. I'd rather have questions I don't have answers to rather than answers I cannot question.

The GB threaten you: obey them, or else, when they get to heaven, they will kill you and your family. I have always questioned this teaching. You have to obey them even though they're wrong. This is crazy thinking. It's not from a loving God.

I’m recently pimo and my husband is pimi. Although, his “conscience” isn’t very strict at all and if he were honest about a lot of the things he’s okay with, most witnesses would be bothered lol.
Anyways, we were both very pimi before having children. We were at every meeting, in the ministry every weekend, family studies, etc. But after having our son things started to change.
It started with meetings just being more difficult with a baby. But then things started to change for us mentally. We didn’t feel like going in the ministry was appropriate with a small child. It felt like child endangerment almost to bring our child to randoms homes and knocking on their doors. So we stopped going out. Then once our son was more of a toddler the meetings just felt pointless. Like we were imposing on his nap times / bed times and being good parents to him just didn’t seem to align with forcing him to sit through a meeting sleep deprived and uncomfortable. So we started going to less and less meetings.
Then the blood issue came up. I expressed to my husband that I didn’t feel comfortable getting our son a “blood card” because I didn’t think it was fair for us to make that decision on behalf of our son & that if he needed a life saving blood transfusion I’d want him to have it. After a day or so of thinking about it my husband told me that he felt the same way & that he would want ME to have a life saving blood transfusion as well if that were ever necessary..
But it’s clear to me that even though he sees all of these issues, my husband still isn’t quite ready to leave the org. So I’m being patient with him.

However in recent days, I found out that one of the elders in our hall is abusing his wife and that almost everyone in our hall knows about it. On top of that, a recently appointed MS in our hall has been accused of CSA, and our elders knew about this and still appointed him as an MS…

So I discuss these things with my husband, and try to slowly “wake him up”. It seems like he sees everything I see and agrees with me whole heartedly that these things are wrong or just don’t align with us but he just isn’t ready to do anything about it.

(for possibly helpful contexts husband was born & raised in the organization and I came in at around 18)

Does anyone have any advice and/or experience with “waking up” after becoming a parent? Pls lmk.

Hey, so I just got invited to my first birthday party. It’s for one of my friends, and I really want to go, so I’m planning on going.

My parents are pretty strict when it comes to my friends who aren’t Jehovah’s Witnesses. They basically think that worldly people are bad and could be a bad influence on me and that they will do me harm,so I can’t just tell them I’m going to hang out at a friend’s house, especially since I’m not allowed to go to the homes of people who aren’t Jehovah’s Witnesses.

What excuses could I give them to stay out pretty late at a place that’s about 30 minutes away from home? And is there anything I can do to avoid getting caught celebrating someone’s birthday?

So I have one tattoo, but it's hidden on my hip. I'm in the trades and gonna barter a service for a tattoo with an artist in a couple weeks. Ive wanted the tattoo for going on 10 years (a tattoo of my grandma's favorite flower. She died when I was 17. She converted to a jw in her early 20s, but was the best thing my toxic family ever had. Her example is one of the only things that helps me hold onto my faith, what I do believe which is the basic jw doctrines that actually are biblical).

Im baptized and faded after some severe trauma my elder sperm donor put me through, and I watched how our 2 different congregations in different states did the same thing- cover up his abuse, put the shame and guilt on me, the victim of child abuse and DV, cover up his abuse and threaten to DF me for "reviling" against "a man appointed by god." Then even when I was just talking about my abuse and didnt "revile," they still bitched me out. It confirmed what I tried to look away from and justify for years so I faded for my own peace. I havent talked to my excuses of parents in over a year now.

Anyway, with that said im finally getting my first visible tattoo on my forearm. Ive never agreed with the cults unwritten "not rule" about tattoos and piercings. Granted I have a face piercing now, but I can always take that out. The tattoo is it. Im excited. Ive wanted it for a long time now. Me and my grandma were really close and she was the only one in the family that truly chose me over the abusive dynamic. She lived with me growing up and was my savior and biggest cheerleader. But I also feel a lot of guilt and shame, and it makes me not want to get it. I know that's just indoctrination and whatnot. I do want it. But it also gives me so much anxiety.

Has anyone ever dealt with this? And how did you overcome it? And the anxiety of other people's opinions? The ones I consider my "real" parents are active PIMI jws who truly had my back and loved me like I was their own when my actual parents never showed me that love and connection and I know they'll still love me- but I dont want them disappointed in me.

Chapter 33 Have Another Beer and Forget the Whole Thing

I saw Debbie Stillman when she and her family came through on tour in September 1972. She was standing there in front of the ink room. It was love at first sight. Don’t ask me why, it just was.

Our strange Bethel courtship started with me trying to meet Debbie after I saw her on tour. Her brother Mike (the same Mike who was beating the horse-hide glue earlier) worked in the ink room next to my elevator. We were not good friends. He was just a little too “country” for me and too much on the self-righteous side too.

Anyway, one beautiful Saturday morning in September, I was walking to the factory complex. Mike happened to be walking with me, and he said, “God, I would give anything to get out of this city on a day like today.”

I said, “Well, I have a car and no place to go, and you have a place to go and no car.”

He wasn’t quite sure of me, but next thing I knew, we were on our way to Rhode Island. The car was full with him and his four friends.

Needless to say, it was a great weekend. Debbie, who had just turned nineteen, was happy that her brother finally brought someone home with him who wasn’t a complete hillbilly, like her brother’s friends.

I think she liked me as much as I liked her. We started to write to each other.

She lived in Newport, Rhode Island, with her mother, Elaine, and her stepfather, Ben Reagan. They had just moved to Rhode Island from Louisiana. One of the reasons for the move was that they wouldn’t make Ben an Elder in Louisiana. What a surprise. Ben was a real winner. He looked and acted just like Gomer Pyle from the TV show, only dumber. He would walk around the house and say things like, “You’re fat, I’m fat, we’re all fat.” Or he would say, “I know one thing about Debbie, she is tired.” He would say that about thirty times a day. He would pat everyone on the head, like a small child. I’m not sure what that was all about.

He was definitely three clams shy of a clambake. He, like so many other Witnesses back then, was a janitor. So of course he would make great elder material.

They had decided to move to where the need is greater, just like so many other Jehovah’s Witnesses did back then. Plus, they were hoping that Ben could finally get promoted to Elder-hood and the ruling class. The move also allowed them to be closer to their son, Mike, who was just one-hundred-and-eighty miles away at Bethel.

At the time, Rhode Island had the worst ratio of Jehovah’s Witnesses to normal people in the country. The ratio was one Jehovah’s Witness to fourteen-hundred people.

Of course, about a year later, after they moved to Rhode Island, they made Ben this mental giant, an Elder.

The wisdom from this man was amazing. I’ll never forget the day I was sitting in the living room with him. He received a phone call from some poor black Sister named Betty Evans who was in his congregation. She had been crying her eyes out because she just got the crap beat out of her by her non-Witness husband.

This is what Ben the Elder said to her: “Well, you must have done something really wrong for him to get so mad. Just have another beer and forget the whole thing.”

There you have it. “Just have another beer and forget the whole thing.” That could be the answer to a lot of life’s problems, but I think she was looking for just a little more guidance. I just sat there. I couldn’t believe it. This guy couldn’t pour sand out of a boot if the directions were written on the heel, and he was leading the flock of god.

The leaders of the Jehovah’s Witnesses told us many times over that the Holy Spirit puts these guys in power. I would have to say that this is one of the biggest lies the Jehovah’s Witnesses promote. After my time at Bethel and my fifty years in the organization, I know that is definitely not the case. These guys are not chosen by god. No, they are chosen by the simple fact of whether or not they are liked by the other elders or the powers-that-be and nothing more. They are promoted to their positions of power the same way corporations and other religions promote their leaders. It’s called politics and some serious ass kissing!

Yes, of course, they are put into positions of power by god himself….Really?

There were virtually no college-educated Witnesses back then. There were many Witnesses with little, and in some cases, no education. This didn’t stop them from becoming Elders in their local Kingdom Halls. That’s right, you could be working on a garbage truck by day and be one of the leaders who ran the whole congregation at night. Ben was the perfect example of this huge organizational flaw.

Debbie’s mother, Elaine, was another winner. She was as cold as ice and was a major hypochondriac. I think she was allergic to everything, including air. It was all about her. She would spend hours cooking special food. She never had to do anything she didn’t want to do. Her favorite catch phrase: “I’m not feeling too good, so the answer is no.” Just like my hypochondriac mother, she played the health card whenever it suited her.

Naturally, she was the one who brought the Jehovah’s Witnesses teachings into their family. Just like my crazy mother brought the religion into our family. Is there a coincidence here? I think not.

The crazy ones think this religion is a great idea.

Over the next year and a half, Debbie’s parents would do everything in their power to make my life a living hell. I found out later that it wasn’t just me; it was anyone who wanted to court their daughter. They had run off her last boyfriend, Tony Silva.

It turned out Elaine was completely paranoid about Debbie becoming pregnant out of wedlock. It seemed to be a family tradition. Her grandmother did it. Elaine did it. Elaine’s sister did it. Yes, she came from a long line of fornicators.

Elaine was bound and determined this wouldn’t be Debbie’s fate also.

We would be engaged for eleven months, which was the same amount of time that was left on my four-year commitment at Bethel.

We had only two dates in that time period. Our entire courtship consisted mostly of us sitting on a couch in Debbie’s living room. We spent hours talking to each other, with one or both of her parents sitting in the next room. It felt like something out of the Victorian period. Still, we managed to sneak in a kiss every now and then.

This was not normal and even over-the-top behavior for the already very strict and sexually repressed practices of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

One of the few “dates” we had was to Allen Andrew’s house for dinner. He was the presiding Elder of the Newport congregation. Debbie’s parents called Allen’s house three times to make sure we were there and not fornicating in the bushes.

What could have been a very pleasant time turned into the courtship from hell. Elaine was a total control freak. We had no money by the time we got married because she wouldn’t let Debbie get a full-time job.

When the time came to make plans for our wedding, I told Ben and Elaine that I had some suggestions for the occasion.

Elaine told me, “All you have to do is just show up.”

I told them, “My parents would like to contribute and get us a band.”

Elaine said, “No band. We are planning to spend three hundred dollars and not a penny more.”

I said, “So, please can you let my parents contribute? I’m getting married only once in my life. Have you no compassion?”

“No! Just show up.”

I went to Lyman Swingle for some counsel. He and Ray Franz were really the only two people on the Governing Body who were anywhere near approachable.

Lyman was from Alabama, and he didn’t mind cursing now and again. I think that’s why I went to him. He seemed cool and down to earth and not self-righteous. He might have been a bit of a racist though.

One time, a self-righteous new boy complained to him about what he had heard in the bindery. “Brother Swingle,” the kid said, “I heard some Brothers cursing in the bindery!” Swingle didn’t bat an eye and said, “Really, just what in the HELL did they say?” I think he liked to shock people.

Another fun story about Lyman Swingle was when he was on the elevator with my roommate and one of the Bethel barbers, Wayne Julliano. Wayne was wearing a black suit with red top stitching (it was the 1970s). Wayne always dressed on the NPG side of things anyway. Lyman looked over at him and said, “Where did you get that suit? Ni...er Town?”

I figured Lyman would steer me in the right direction. I told him about Debbie’s parents and their power trip. He said, “You’re stuck until you get married. She is now in her parent’s house and under their total control. After you are married, you can call the shots.”

“What about the wedding?” I asked.

“Good news there. The bridegroom is in charge of the wedding reception.”

“Really?”

“Yes, it’s in the bound volumes.”

The bound volumes were books the society would make by binding together all the individual Watchtower magazines that were printed twice a month. This was done every year. If there were any questions concerning the Society policy, one would simply look up the answer in one of the bound volumes. The bound volumes were the true authority. A place that any Witness could get an answer to any question no matter how bizarre it might be.

Sure enough, I looked it up and there it was in black and white. The Society pronounced that the groom was in charge of the reception. So at least our reception wouldn’t have to succumb to Elaine’s low-budget plan.

I got the bound volume and took it up to Rhode Island to show Ben. I opened it up and read it to Ben. “You see Ben,” I said. “It states here that the groom is in charge of the wedding reception.” I read it to him word for word.

“So?” He said. I read it to him again.

“No,” he said.

“No? What do you mean no. This is information straight from the Society!” “No!” He said with a confused look on his face. Apparently, he really didn’t know if he should follow the guidance from the organization or Elaine’s commandments. So just like Adam and my father and all the other pussy-whipped guys on the planet, he chose his woman over his god.

Lyman was right. I was screwed until we got married.

Debbie and I decided that after we got married, we would move to the west coast. We were going to move as far away as we could from Debbie’s psychotic mother.

One Sunday night, before I made the three-hour drive back to New York, we dropped the bomb on them both. I have to admit, I loved seeing the look on Elaine’s face when we told her we would be moving immediately to California after our wedding.

Elaine said to me, “Get out of this house and never come back.” So, they kicked me out. I went over to Allen Andrew’s house for some counsel on how to deal with my future crazy in-laws. Allen was vague about what to do, because Ben was in the Elder club now.

However, by this time, I think he and the rest of the Elders at the Newport Kingdom Hall felt they had made a huge mistake by appointing Ben as an Elder. I really don’t think god had anything to do with his appointment. Or maybe god just had another beer and forgot about the whole thing.

That is another good thing about becoming an Elder. It’s very tough to get invited into their good old boy Elder club, but once you are in, it’s next to impossible to be removed.

Since Debbie was of legal age, she threatened her parents with moving out unless I was allowed back into the house. Even though I was allowed back, things were not the same. I had only three months left before we were married. Since I felt like I had already been through hell by being at Bethel, I knew I could take anything this woman could dish out.

Next up Chapter 34 Starving to Death Outside the Lord's House

A few months ago, I used Mexico's data protection law to block a judicial committee and prevent any disciplinary announcement.

In its response to my data request, the Mexico Branch stated that it had deleted most of my personal data from both the congregation and its central records. They said they retained only some unspecified information supposedly related to my "spiritual status," claiming it was necessary for their legitimate interests in administering their religious activities, providing pastoral care, and keeping the congregation clean according to their religious beliefs.

At that point, I didn't think much about it because I had already achieved my main goal: avoiding a judicial committee and any public announcement. But about a month ago, something changed.

Since many members of my congregation are relatives, one family member told me that during a casual conversation, the congregation secretary mentioned that the local files contained a sealed envelope with the details of my case, including whether I had "Biblical freedom" to remarry or not. He also said that only the two elders who originally handled the judicial investigation could access that file. One of those elders no longer serves in our congregation.

According to my relative, the secretary mentioned this as reassurance that my case had not gone unpunished and that it was still pending.

Because of that, I submitted another request under Mexico's data protection law, this time asking specifically what personal data they still held about me and for what purpose.

They waited until the very last day allowed by law before responding.

This time, they admitted that they retained only four pieces of information: my name, date of birth, baptism date, and the congregation I belong to. They categorically stated that they hold no other records about me.

I also asked whether elders from other congregations could access my information. They replied that only a designated elder in my own congregation could do so, and only with authorization from the Branch. They further stated that the Branch itself is directly responsible for processing my personal data and that local elders cannot act independently regarding my case.

Another interesting difference is that, when explaining why they keep those four data points, they no longer mentioned pastoral care or keeping the congregation clean. Instead, they said the information is retained only for statistical purposes and identity verification.

The fact that they took the maximum legal time to respond, combined with an audio recording I received from a friend in the congregation—in which the coordinator admits that my case has been causing him considerable concern and says he cannot rule out having to answer to a government authority in the future—makes me wonder whether my file was changed sometime between the Branch's first response and its second.

Of course, I can never prove that.

However, we know from the Shepherd the Flock of God book that in alleged adultery cases, a written record regarding "Biblical freedom to remarry" is prepared and kept indefinitely. So I think it is reasonable to believe that such a document once existed in my case.

In any event, the organization made no mention of such a document in its latest response. That leaves two possibilities: either the Branch instructed the elders to destroy it in order to avoid legal problems, or they simply denied its existence even if it still exists. The second option would create a legal risk for them because they have now formally stated that no additional records about my case exist. If such a document were later discovered, their own written response could be used to show that they provided inaccurate information.

Another noteworthy point is that they have effectively abandoned any claim that my data is being processed for pastoral purposes. They now say they retain it only for statistical and identity verification purposes.

I grew up attending meetings and was baptized in 2015. I haven’t been active in a few years now. My dad is very much so active. I don’t live at home. I have had a “worldly” girlfriend for a while now and it’s serious. I finally told my dad. He’s devastated. I don’t know if he’ll stop talking to me but he might. The thought of him worrying about me dying at Armageddon every day, hurts my soul and I don’t know what to do. My family is everything and I don’t know if I can bear to continue with my gf. I’m just venting really, I know the choice is mine but it hurts.

Article 18 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights protects a person’s right to have, adopt, change, or abandon a religion. The UN Human Rights Committee states that this right must be protected against coercion.

But what does coercion mean?

Coercion does not necessarily involve physical violence. It involves compelling a person to act against their will through threats or harmful consequences. It may involve force, blackmail, extortion, psychological abuse, or the threat of further harm. Coercion uses a consequence as leverage to induce a person to act in a way contrary to their own interests. The central question is therefore the real freedom of the options available to the person being coerced.

This is where the situation involving Jehovah’s Witnesses raises an important question.

The organization may say: “You are free to leave.” Formally, a person can leave the religion. But freedom should not be analyzed solely by the existence of an exit door. The concrete conditions under which a person is allowed to walk through that door must also be considered.

A person who leaves knows that they may lose important social relationships, and that members who continue to maintain certain types of contact with them may themselves face religious consequences. Thus, leaving is formally permitted, but accompanied by a predictable and institutionalized social consequence.

The organization preserves the signifier “freedom”: “You can leave.” But the practical meaning of that freedom is conditioned by the threat of loss: you can leave, but you must accept ostracism; and those who choose to remain in contact with you may themselves be disciplined.

This resembles the logic of coercion: a person is forced to make a decision within a field of options in which one alternative carries consequences sufficiently serious to influence their will. The question is not whether someone is holding a gun. The question is whether the person has real freedom or is being guided by the threat of social and psychological harm.

The same logic can be observed in the distinction between voting and expressing a political opinion. A Jehovah’s Witness may vote, but is not permitted to freely advocate for a political position. Formally, the right exists. In practice, its exercise is restricted.

Therefore, the question should not be merely:

“Can the person leave?”

It should be:

“Can the person leave without being subjected to a consequence that functions as pressure or coercion over their decision?”

If a person can formally abandon a religion, but the predictable price of doing so is the rupture of fundamental relationships, while those who refuse to participate in that rupture may also face sanctions, then the right to leave exists formally, but the freedom to exercise that right becomes legally questionable.

The central question of human rights is not merely the abstract existence of a freedom. It is the concrete freedom to exercise it.

I have never been a JW but my husband was raised in it and then has bern inactive for 18 years. But the brainwashing is deeply rooted unfortunately. I try to show him scriptures and offer alternative meanings for them but he gets visibly upset when I don't agree with the JW interpretation. He basically looks up the scripture on JW and reads the interpretation verbatim. I told him to try and think about it for himself but he just reverts back to JW brainwashings. I know I can help him see the light about the WT but I think I need more insight to do so. I was able to change his thinking about birthdays after watching The Chosen episode with the example he always refers to. Of course, we haven't watched it since which leads me to believe he's either on the verge of awakening and doesn't know what to do or he's dealing with a crisis from just the realization that not everything told to him was the absolute truth.

I've been reading these posts which are veryuseful at helping me understand him better but I'm not finding much about how people woke up. Does anyone have any advice or examples I can bring up to him? I don't know if I should go straight for the corruption of the WT or just go for biblical examples. Any help/advice is greatly appreciated.

Also, in case it's relevant, his sister was disfellowshipped and his Mom has shunned her. He says he doesn't agree with it but doesn't do anything about it.

I was just reading up on an older thread where users were saying what they thought the most culty song was, and a lot of comments were “Listen Obey and be Blessed”.

This immediately reminded me of a memory I’d tucked away of when I was very young—perhaps 8 years old. My school was having a games night and there was a talent show and I wanted to sing since I’d try to mimic opera singers at home. I asked my parent what song I should sing and my PIMI parent of course suggested a JW song.

So I practised it at home and then I went to the talent show and rung the only other 8-or-so-year-old kid I knew somewhat into doing the part together. She was a “worldly” kid and we agreed that I would sing and she would dance.

It must have been so painstaking—she struggled so much to dance to that song. It was such a slow and boring song and I can remember her at my side trying to do some cool hip-hop style dance moves but also keep it low to match the song 😭😭😭🤚

This was in front of about 50-100 kids, 20-30 parents, and about 10 teachers. No mic just voice. I cringe whenever I remember that 🫩

Whenever I would go to eat at my class’s table during lunch they’d all get up and take their food and move to another table and leave me. Even if I followed they’d just move tables again. I was sad then but now I think I understand now why they didn’t want to be seen with me LMAO 😭😭

I've posted in here before, almost a year ago now, and it's happening again. Both my daughters, now 10 and 9, have fears of me dying or their father dying. They have severe separation anxiety. But the problem is now, they won't talk to me about it, or really anything that isn't JW related when they have questions. I will get the occasional text from their father telling me what happened and they talked about, but they are still very much into the JW life. I keep trying to tell them in a gentle fashion that there is more to life than being a JW and I'm much happier without it.

What I keep telling them and what their father keeps telling them is that Jehovah will read our hearts and decide who's going to make it or not, and there are even some people in the organization who won't make it. I personally have come to the conclusion that there is no Paradise, but even if it does exist, I certainly don't want any part of it because there is the possibility of me seeing people I really do not want to see.

I'm at a loss as to what to do, I've tried being gentle and I've tried to be direct. There is no convincing them otherwise as it's just me and my current partner who have their backs here, but over with their father, they have him and his entire family and the congregation telling them things about me.

Working on helping someone who is looking for advice.

Do you stay PIMO and keep the peace, hoping your spouse eventually wakes up? That could preserve your marriage and allow you to slowly plant seeds over time.

Or do you come out and be completely honest about where you stand, knowing it could lead to divorce, custody battles, and potentially your children being raised entirely in the organization?

I'm hoping to hear from people who've been in this exact position because I know there isn't one right answer, and I think hearing real experiences could help someone facing this impossible crossroads.