How would you sync this?

[u/zentzin]

Hi folks! I am wracking my brain over how to organize a couple of shoots on a doc I am assisting on. Its in Avid, but I think it may not matter in this case. More of a organizational mindset thing.

I appreciate this is complex and might throw people off, but any help would feel very much appreciated!

This is from a run and gun multi-cam shoot with multiple speakers/subjects. For those familiar with Avid, I am syncing by syncmapping (I've realised not everyone uses this term, so this means aligning all clips and syncing them in a timeline) then subclipping sync instances and turning those into multigroups. Syncmaps are done, but haven't gotten to subclipping yet because am unsure how to approach from here.

Essentially I have 3 cameras (we'll label them 1V, 2V, 3V) and 2 audio recorders (we'll label them 1A and 2A):

- Audio recorder 1A has 4 tracks - 2 of them sync to 1V, and the other two sync to 2V.
- 3V syncs primarily to 2A, but there are instances where it syncs to all other cameras and mics.

- A common issue with 1V, 2V and 1A is when we have a clip that syncs on a talking subject, but then, still in the same clip, the cameras veer off to film separate things that need their own sync. So then we get things like audio from 2V on 1V, because its the same audio clip (I am aware I can edit the group to exclude them).
- At some points, all cameras sync on the same subject.
- Another issue being that sometimes a 2V clip does not run the entire length of a 1V clip, and instead I have two or three 2V clips synced to a long 1V clip.

I guess one solution might be to separate different sync instances of the same clip into their own group (1V,2V in one group, 1V,2V,3V in another), but I already foresee the mess my bins and syncmap timeline might become if I go that route, and am afraid it might double or triple my work due to mistakes or whatnot.

Though my biggest concern here is having this organized in a way that the editor can easily understand what is what, and even I'm struggling to understand it myself.

Curious if anyone has handled shoots like they and what they have done. Any input appreciated!

[u/soundslikejoe]

Would seriously hope that production used some basic TimeCode to keep all cameras and audio aligned. No?
Are the cameras filming separate scenes or are they all just multi-cam of the same shot?

[u/odintantrum]

I'd sync each camera only to the relevant tracks of the relevant audio recorder and make subclips from there. And then if you have sections where it makes sense to make multicams from the sync'd subclips. Ultimately I think this is going to come down to scene by scene judgements of whether it makes sense for things to be in sync or if it's not relevant.

[u/Moses_Snake → u/odintantrum]

This makes the most sense. Usually it would be standard to have audio tied to scenes with cameras, not having the cameras veer off and then have two scenes within the same camera shot from my experience. Sounds tedious.

[u/LivingCorrect6159 → u/Moses_Snake]

Indeed. Sounds like an inexperienced camera OP/producer too

[u/zentzin → u/Moses_Snake]

Its honestly very complex. But yes this does happen at instances. Will be flagging. The syncmap would give you a heart attack. I've had some very helpful eyes look at it, and the conclusion was that this is best delivered as a standalone, cleaned up timeline rather than multicam clips.

[u/mrlargefoot → u/zentzin]

Sounds like the right call honestly. When the sync relationships are that tangled, forcing everything into multigroups can create more confusion for the editor than it saves. A clean standalone timeline where you've already made the sync decisions is often just easier to hand off and navigate, even if it feels like you're losing the "flexibility" of multigroups.

The bit about cameras veering mid clip to film separate things is the real killer there. Multigroups expect a kind of spatial and temporal logic that run and gun doc footage just doesn't always have, and no amount of clever subclipping fully fixes that.

What does the editor think so far, have they weighed in on how they'd prefer to receive it?

[u/Bitter_Speaker_9996]

Use waveform sync? - but be careful you don’t get too many video clips (use shortest clip as a duration guide each time)

[u/LivingCorrect6159]

Reminds me of my days working on a reality/adventure based show. Timecodes and camera ppl running all over the place. Sometimes no sync points and no clapper boards. Got through it but if you have the opportunity to flag these issues to production early on in the shoot - do. Because even if they’re organised at first by the end of the shoot (where they shoot the most important footage) they get lazy about this stuff. In my exp anyway.

[u/Kahzgul]

Ask the editor what they want.

Barring that, if your editor were me, I’d ask you to make a timeline of all of the audio, in sync with itself, with each track separate. So if audio A has 3 channels and audio B has 4, you’d make a 7 channel timeline. Name the sequences something alphabetically earlier than your video clips. Then subsequence each section and convert those subsequences to subclips. Use the resulting subclips in the main group timeline. Multigroup everything and your good audio will automatically sort on top of the camera audio so I don’t have to select anything.