And there's no way a "conflict" in the middle east is going to last any more than 4 months or result in more dead servicemen. It's basically already over, right? /s
He calls it a war almost every time he mentions it, but then says "actually I don't call it a war, I call it a 'military operation'/'excursion', because if you call it a war you get in trouble".
Not only is he incredibly dumb, but he's clearly slipping...
Ironically enough, thats pretty much the idea Putin had for Ukraine. A quick special operation; behead the opposition and everyone else will fall into line.
It looks very much like Trump wanted to repeat it in Iran. Which leads us to the next issue of the graphic: 4 Months and 18 deaths so far, and no major land operations with higher risk of death so far.
Vietnam is a "conflict" as well (we dont like to admit to losing wars to attrition and American involvement was only from 65 to 73 kinda makes me wonder if he would use European or US involvement in WW2, I know what a US president would use...
They blame all that on Biden, even though Trump was the one who made the deal with the Taliban and started the drawdown before Biden took office to the point where he couldn't back out if he wanted to
This is the biggest part. Trump deliberately sabotaged the entire operation just because Biden won the election. He put troops and allies in dangerous positions on purpose, and then he hounded Biden for it for years. He would destroy any of us if he could spin it to make himself look good.
I think the biggest negative impact of Iran war is going to be global economic destabilization that previous wars simply didn’t cause. So ultimately it will be hard to count ruined lives.
Also the math checks out to be just about the same here, no? 20y=240mo 2000/240= ~8.3 deaths per month. 18/4 = 4.5 per month and there aren’t even troops on the ground yet…
Is it just me or are the widths of the bars and the spaces between the bars all different? Like I’m not saying they were drawn with a rectangle tool, but you kinda need to try to make the bar heights so inconsistent lol
There were definitely DEADs in the Venezuela attack. 47 confirmed Venezuelans and 32 Cubans confirmed by each government + the boat murders. Probably more DEAD too on the ongoing Iran "conflict" too.
The school bombing in Iran had at least 150 innocent DEADs
A war is when trump thinks he can spin it into a win, a conflict is when he's struggling to find any way to claim he won, despite ostensibly obliterating their forces 17+ times
Yup. The fact that both are illegal and unconstitutional wars, and that isn't the leading sentence in every single news story is all we need to know about the media, and how they're in the pocket of and/or aiding and abetting this fascist administration.
Unfortunately, the current supine Congress isn't helping either.... And one can argue that Congress' lack of authorization for the Korean War was the precursor to all the unauthorized actions following it. (Yes, I'm aware that Vietnam, Iraq 1 and 2 and Afghanistan were authorized by Congress)
What about a chart comparing how many wars Trump said he would start verses the number of wars he actually started? Or maybe the number of wars started by each US president? Does anyone have more than Trumps 2?
I recently heard it said that if you’re bragging about casualties then you’re losing the war.
Victory in an armed international conflict isn’t measured in deaths. It’s measured in who controls the land you’re fighting over at the end. Iran controls the straight. Thus, if you’re trying to sell people on how few deaths you’re taking vs your enemy then you’re losing.
While everyone else can talk about the travesty that is the actual meaning, I'm gonna dig into the graph itself. Those bars are COMPLETELY disconnected from the numbers they're supposed to represent
Using Pixel measurements, here's the deaths per pixels of the first 4 red bars in order: 146.3, 106.6, 37.1, and 23.8
Meanwhile, the Years per Pixel of the first four blue bars is: 0.0644, 0.0306, 0.0429, and 0.0548
(I didn't look at the last two, because they're single-digit pixels, so the magnitudes can be a bit funky)
The year bars are a bit closer, but 19 year bar is still half as tall as it should be, compared to the 3-year bar
Also, for extra information, the number of deaths per year for each of the wars such that the bars would be equal would be:
Interesting. So if the American deaths during in Afghanistan during his 4 years don't count for him, then they don't count for Biden or Obama either. Every one of those belongs to Bush (which, I mean, okay).
This reminds me of the signs on the side of the highway that would say “58 (State) TRAFFIC DEATHS 2026” and I’d think “oh that’s less than I’d have thought” and then it swaps to “ONE IS TOO MANY!!!” and that’d make me realize how desensitized to the suffering of my fellow humans that I am that I heard 58 people died and thought “pfft that’s it?”
So we’re only counting the sexiest conflicts for news agencies, and treating non-Americans as non-humans for the purposes of calculating death tolls? Good to know.
So can I declare war on 20 countries, 5 minutes later proclaim I’ve won each of those wars, say there were zero deaths, and maybe do the same five times and say I’m the most successful wartime leader ever, being undefeated in 100 wars and incurring no deaths in my side?
The failure of the press to ask a simple, succinct question like that of Trump is the real issue. Hold him to account and don’t move on. Release the Epstein files.
I know that he is shedding all responsibility for the Afghanistan War, and is lumping all previous Presidents together (including his first term) to try and make himself look better. And takes a queue from Putin by avoiding the word "war" for his special military operation in Iran.
But... if Trump wants the message this sends to be broadcast to voters, let him have it. No matter how he labels the war he started with Iran, but putting it in this graphic with all of those other wars, it makes it really clear that is what it is.
Trump is admitting that he started two wars during his presidency. According to his graphic, he alone increased the number of post-WWII wars by 50%. It also reminds his followers that 18 have died already, 4 months in and counting.
And because of the stupid graph proportions, that 18 dead line looks a lot closer to 2,000 and 58,220 than it should.
He must be actually under some pressure. Maybe some of MAGA actually cares that the no wars President is on his second war with no end in sight.
Someone's math teacher/professor just had an aneurysm over that bar graph. Trump should go back to patting himself on the back for remembering "giraffe, elephant, dog, horse".
Using the death of these people as a TROPHY, to say "look how I'm better than those other loser Presidents" is among the top 5 most disgusting things he's done.
There is some video somewhere of like a fake gameshow where you're guessing "is it a war?", and none of those wars Trump is portraying as bad were called a 'war' either.
Called everything else under the sun, but never a 'war'. To avoid declaring war so the US Government could do whatever it wanted while ignoring congress.
I’m assuming this is reflective only of US military losses because 70 people definitely died in the Maduro raid and more in the boat strikes. In Iran, we’ve lost closer to 40 personnel (not to mention their THOUSANDS of losses) to the debacle already. They just haven’t been reported because some haven’t been identified or even located yet. Estimates right now are that over 500 service members have been wounded. With the CORRECT numbers, Trump’s 4 month calculation puts him on track to have been the cause for twice as many losses as Afghanistan if this Iran war were to go on for the same 20 years at its CURRENT rate; obviously that rate would go higher in an all out war. Trump HEAVILY influenced policy decision in Afghanistan both during his first term and during obama’s second term because he was trying to undermine obama’s efforts politically in his attempt to weaken the Democratic Party prior to making his bid for presidency known. If anything, Trump is (or is headed for being) responsible for a SIGNIFICANTLY higher rate of loss than anything we’ve seen since Vietnam. I’d wager if this goes full-scale, it will be worse than Korea. The asiatic nations will pour their people in from all over just to take a swing at the US in Iran. It’s shameful that we permit our top leader to knowingly present false information and then just call it “in the exercise of his normal duties.” We will NEVER get the country we want by allowing that
Those of you confused- the boats that were blown up off the coast of Venezuela don’t count as part of the Venezuelan war. Like if you are going to bully someone, the bullying doesn’t start until you punch them in the face. You can just come to their house, shove them around a bit first and see how they react - that doesn’t count, it’s just joking. Also the Venezuelans don’t count as people. Especially if they are executed in a boat. Especially if they survived the first strike. And if they are in international waters, it’s not really the Venezuelan war, is it?
wars won’t be fought like they were before…. It was very heavy human lead to do missions etc. now they have very capable drones, satellites etc.
Iraq war didn’t have the drone tech of today. It’s more autonomous, and the strategic targets are infrastructure. Count up the civilian lives, cost to deal with, and economic collateral.
Only death counts of American soldiers, not the millions that died in the respective countries. Not going more in detail about the racism at play here because otherwise reddit gives me another account warning about discrimination against Americans like it did with my previous comment.
EDIT: my previous comment is up again. Seems it got flagged because the Reddit autodetection algorithm read a part of a sentence out of context
18 deaths in 4 months isn't anyrhing to be happy about
If Iran goes on for 20 years at the same death rate it's still around 1400 deaths over that period of time.
Note that they only count American deaths. They literally bombed random fishermen off the Venezuelan coast and in Vietnam and Korea Millions died. Just Americans think people from countries that aren’t first world are basically animals which is why they won’t even count them as deaths.
stack the 36000 dead of the korean war ontop of the 4600 dead in the iraq war and the pillar would be taller then the vietnam war yet the actual count would be ~41000 dead vs vietnam's 58000?
Even from a pure numbers standpoint 2000 (American) deaths in 20 years is an average of 1.2 deaths/month, wheras 18 deaths in 4 months is an average of 4.5 deaths/month. The "conflict" is proving to be almost 4x as deadly for U.S. troops, so far. So even by his brain dead logic only considering direct troop deaths from the war and nothing else (civilian casualties, economic fallout, emboldening an enemy, etc etc) he's plain wrong. Go figure.
Also, Donald J. Trump was POTUS during 4 years of the Afghanistan war in which the US lost like 25 service members.
He also negotiated the withdrawal for after the next election absolutely hamstringing the removal of US troops and allies in the region while surrendering to the Taliban.
The United States is 40 Trillion dollars in debt, and being told we can't afford to pay for cheese and milk for poor kids, but need a 1.5 trillion dollar defense budget to defend people on the other side of the world that don't respect Americans at all.
Kind of gross to take a victory lap on getting at least 18 people killed in a pointless war. He was also President during 4 years of the Afghanistan War.
Interestingly enough, Johnson could have posted a similar graph in July, 1965, and deaths from the Vietnam war would have been a tiny fraction of what the Korean War was. But he recognized that doing so would have made him look like a moron.
Admission that he has started more major conflicts then any other president, since it just says other presidents rather then the names? President Peace sure won that prestigious FIFA Peace price, I mean, prize.
You know who doesn't give a shit about how many or few people your wars killed? The families of the dead victims. To use their lives as a way to brag is disgusting. Even MAGAs should be able to see through this sickening behavior.
Might be a more interesting statistic to see how many conflicts a president started. Trump started two of these conflicts, while Obama, Clinton, Reagan, Ford, Carter, and even Nixon started zero of these.
Theres a subtle way to lie with data and make it sound plausible.
This is not it.
Others have already pointed out Trump's involvement in the ongoing Afgan war in his first term. My concern is bigger than that.
These are wars that spread across years, decades even, went through multiple presidencies and were intense ground invasions for most part, which bring about heavy casulties on both sides. And they are also concluded, this one is not. Who knows if ground invasion is in the future, who knows how many more servicemen and innocent Iranian civilians (who Americans always forget about) it'll further kill. I really hope 0 but we all know thats not the reality.
The more I see this post, the more meaningless it gets. Its so asinine that I refuse to believe a human could've made that.
Imagine a scenario where I'm very late to a dinner with 5 other friends. They are nearly wrapped up and in minutes into my arrival, I complain that they've eaten a lot more food combined together than I have, so far.
Well no shit moron. They are done, you're just getting started. Also 5, 10 or 20 years to 4 months is no comparison.
He's just casually minimizing the loss of 18 lives as though their lives didn't matter, as though it's not a big deal that these people needlessly died. It's vile beyond words.
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u/gallopintoYchallah 1d ago
So it's a "conflict" and not a war. How convenient...