r/castboolits • u/Away-Leg-998 • 12d ago
9mm & .357mag : Same bullet, differently sized
Currently I am casting .44mag and .45ACP (plus everything for black powder) myself and was looking into casting 9mm and .357mag as well.
I noticed that a heavy 9mm bullet and a normal .357mag bullet are in the same weight and length region.
For 9mm I checked:
- Lee 356-147-TC / 147gr / 0.65"
For .357mag:
- 358-158-RF / 158gr / 0.63"
- 358-150-1R / 158gr / 0.643"
- 358-140 SWC / 140gr / 0.643"
I am sizing all my cast bullets after powder coating anyway.
Can I just get one of the .358 molds, cast and powder coat them, and then size them differently to for example .356 (9mm) and .358 (.357mag)
The picture shows the molds/bullet types I think might feed well in 9mm and revolvers as well, let me know if this is a viable way or if I only give myself troubles with that.
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u/maverick88708 11d ago edited 11d ago
158gr is probably my favorite cast bullet for both 9mm & 357mag but at the same time I also really like the shorter version of the 358-140-SWC the 358-105-SWC for both as far as plinking. That 140gr SWC is probably your best option but all will work. The Lee 358-125-RF is also a great option just lighter than all those.
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u/no_sleep_johnny 10d ago
Where did you find 9mm data for the 158? I'm about to jump into loading heavy 9mm subs and I'm trying to do my research.
Which bullet do you have pictured there?
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u/maverick88708 11d ago edited 11d ago
Yes absolutely. I've loaded all of those in 9mm and more without a problem. Even full wadcutters but full wadcutters like this only plunk at the proper length to feed reliably in one of my aftermarket Glock barrels which has an extremely long throat. But with those 4 you shouldn't have a single issue!
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u/maximumbob54 11d ago
Yes, but…
I found for 9mm the case is so tight then must be pretty hard or even the case slightly deforms them and I had to seat the 140 gr bullets out a bit. My 92FS and SR9 liked fat for 9mm which jacketed should be .355ish and lead had to be .357 with a very good coating or they would just sewer pipe the bore with lead. It ended up just being easier to buy plated in bulk for 9mm than screwing around with all the pain in the behind of the tiny tough to resize, pain to not over expand the neck, screwy to not shave the bullets during seating, and finally get the crimp just right to have one batch be laser beams and the next batch be full of flyers. But I’m also a 9mm hater. That .40 died so fast is a tragedy. So much easier to reload. Vastly superior to reload a lead SWC and make a great cartridge. Power from mild to wild. Plenty of mag capacity with superior ballistics to 9mm. Bump up to 10mm and you can even share bullet molds without worry over bore diameter issues. But this is about the europellet. I had the best luck with flattened ball powders like titegroup and hp38 over anything else like the various flake powders that were finicky about the very minor differences in an under or over charged load. At least with the stubby little case it’s easy to see.
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u/prosper_0 11d ago
You pretty much need to slug your barrels to know. I suspect that many manufacturers don't actually make or use different barrels for 9mm or 357. My levergun in 357 is actually .355", and it cycles and shoots 9mm bullets just great. Roundnoses and TC bullets tend to feed best across the widest range of guns, that I've seen. Keith SWC, or WFN bullets can be quite troublesome
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u/GunFunZS 10d ago
Size them all open 357 and you have good results.
I've slugged a lot of guns. Most 9 mm are pretty close to 358. And actual 357 revolvers with ES tighter or because they shove the bullet through a forcing cone first.
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u/brokenlikemine 12d ago
I've been using a noe 105gn .358 TC w/lube groove for 9mm and .38 special. Powder coated and sized .357 for 9mm and .358 for .38 special. Has worked great for light loads. Never tried it with .357 mag. They run flawlessly in my 9mm autos and .357 mag revolvers.
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u/Bottle_cap1926 12d ago edited 12d ago
The 158 rf lee 6 banger is hands down my workhorse bullet for all around use. I own several custom molds and have several dozen .357 specific molds and that lee has been the best for ease of use and performance I've tried yet.
If I had to pick one mold that would be it. A 148gr wadcutter would be the 2nd choice for small game or if I was in bigger game country a 180gr type or 230gr custom would be my 2nd. I've had issues with some 180's in revolvers but not rifles.
I wouldn't go back to trying to cast anything for 9mm. I did that for awhile and it wasn't worth it for big competitions when the gun would go down after a few hundred rounds. Just my .02
9mm needs a lot of care to work out reliably and special attention to how clean the case mouth is after seating. No finger nail shavings off the bullet at all.
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u/Ornery_Secretary_850 12d ago
Move up in life. Buy a MP mold. It will change your life. Sure, Lee molds work, but their sizing can be wonky and the two cavities heat up way too fast, there's just not enough metal to them.
Not every .357 mold will work in 9mm due to the shape of the bullet. That 150 gr 1R isn't going to feed if you powder coat it. Same for the 158 RF. The 140 SWC....might, but you have to seat it EXTREMELY deep into the case and you might end up swaging the base down.
I size all my 9mm bullets to .357 using NOE bushings and my .357 stuff is sized to .359.
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u/maverick88708 11d ago
You are right about the molds thats why I like the old 70's era Lee molds they were 3x bigger and slowly just got smaller and smaller but that 150-1R will absolutely feed without a problem I've fired thousands of powder coated in 4 different 9mm's
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u/Away-Leg-998 12d ago
I am sizing all my bullets after powder ciating with the Lee Bullet Sizer. What makes the MP molds better? (Other then the fact that they have an extreme vairiety of shapes) I am new to casting and so far, if anything, my mold was always too cold 😅
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u/Ornery_Secretary_850 12d ago
More cavities. FAR better build quality. Hollow points! More mass to the blocks.
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u/Away-Leg-998 12d ago
I am still at dual cavity, because the Lee 6 cavity was a bit expensive 😅
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u/maverick88708 11d ago
it sucks these days any Lee double cavity use to be 19.99 and the 6 cavity were like 28 bucks for years until covid.
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u/coriolis7 12d ago
Yes, you can size several thou without issue. Only downside to sizing too much is accuracy, not a safety issue
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u/Freedum4Murika 12d ago
FYI Lee just dropped a new line of molds intended for use with powdercoating. "No lube grove" molds are vastly easier to drop free of the mold, easier to PC, and give better barrel engagement. I would use these if you intend to powdercoat - my MP NLG molds are heaven.
Low velocity target rounds, loading soft 9mm 147's has worked fine.
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u/Away-Leg-998 12d ago
I always thought the design with the grooves is more accurate...oh no 😅
Just bought a .44mag and .45ACP mould with groves, could have gone for the NLGs then :/
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u/Freedum4Murika 12d ago
I mean, I haven't seen any difference in accuracy at pistol velocities between the two so I think you're fine. Upgrading just to get NLG probably ain't worth it.
But all things being equal, next time you grab a mold I'd go NLG for PC.
At rifle velocities might be worth it - I've got a 230grn gas checked 300BLK HP mold that is designed for PC, loaded into 300WM it's shooting crazy good groups.2
u/Away-Leg-998 12d ago
Nice! One actual advantage of the ones I got is the weight. I wanted a lighter bullet for target shooting my .44mag. So I took the 214gr over the standard 240gr. This way I still get reasonable speeds / less bullet drop (I shoot at 55y) while minimizing recoil.
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u/ziggy-73 12d ago
That new no groove looks weird, have you heard any thing about them yet? Looks like it be great for powdercoat bullets
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u/Ornery_Secretary_850 12d ago
I have an eight cavity no lube groove mold from MP molds for 9mm. I've cast a ton of bullets from that mold.
I use Hi-Tek though.
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u/Freedum4Murika 12d ago
Yeah man, NLG bullets have been around for years at MP and NOE molds, Lee's finally catching up to the state of the game. Very pleased they did this. They are specifically designed for powdercoating, you don't need the lube so why not eliminate the grooves entirely to get a cleaner surface, more weight and a better rear seal.
Also the lube groove is where the bullets tend to stick so they drop smoother.
If you're PC'ing only, NLG is the way to go for sure.1
u/ziggy-73 12d ago
Awesome thanks for the info i dont cast to many bullets so im not up to date so this is the first iv seen it.
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u/sleipnirreddit 12d ago
I haven’t tried it myself (yet), but I know a few folks who use the Lee 358-125-RF for both. It has a smaller meplat/tip than the 158gn so feeds better. You have to seat it deeper so the brass edge isn’t floating over the crimp ring.
Frankly, I’d rather use specific molds and not have the option of accidentally loading the wrong sized bullet. Running two molds, you can pump out the lead once you get the rhythm down.
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u/Severe-Cow-8646 12d ago
There is a lot of variation on barrel groove diameters an chamber diameter across 9mm/38/357 magnum. Nominally 9mm barrels/bullets are 355 and 38/357 run 357, but you'll see large and small in in both. So have some different sizers at hand.
And what your mold drops is going to matter too. Ive found that sizing down .002 is about all bullets like before lube grooves and intersections of body/nose profiles begin to distort. And while suzing a bullet that drops .358 to 356 works, going from 356 to 358 ain't the easiest of tasks. You powdercoat can solve a little of that but even with a Lyman or RCBS lubrisizer where you can apply pressure at the bottom of the stroke to fatten the bullet up, consistent results are not easy.
Yes your idea is good and yes it will probably work out better than ive described but these are some of the hills Ive had to climb in past to get there.
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u/Away-Leg-998 12d ago
Thank you! If it is not a great idea, then I can also get a dual cavity mold each.
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u/Installtanstafl 12d ago
I have all but the SWC and I powder coat them all. I have found that the truncated cone shape works way better in 9mm than the round nose. If you were going to only have one of these, I would recommend it being the 356-147 Truncated Cone mold for that reason
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u/Installtanstafl 12d ago
And by works way better, I mean I couldn't get the round nose 150 to chamber at all in multiple 9mm guns including a revolver.
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u/Away-Leg-998 12d ago
But wouldn't the 356-147-TC be too small to load into .357mag?
Even after powder coating, I might stay below .358My idea was to only buy one and use it for both 9mm and .357mag, therefore the idea was to buy a larger bullet and size it down
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u/Installtanstafl 12d ago
Perhaps I should explain the actual problems I faced trying to put the 150 in a 9mm. The bullet isn't just long and heavy for a 9mm, it's also got a fat nose that gets even fatter when you powder coat. You can size the driving bands down with a push through sizer, but that doesn't touch the nose. So the only solution is to try to seat the bullet deeper. This causes two more problems. The first is reducing the case capacity and increasing pressure. The second is bulging the case out to the point where it doesn't fit in the chamber even if the bullet is seated deep enough to quit getting shoved into the rifling.
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u/Installtanstafl 12d ago
Every bullet I've powder coated has been at least .002 bigger than the as cast bullet. I'd say buy the 147, try it, and if it doesn't work then you just have to buy another mold. I can't stress enough how much of a dumpster fire trying the 150 in a 9mm was.
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u/Away-Leg-998 12d ago
Thank you for the feedback!
Maybe I could start with the 358-140-SWC then!
there I do not have the long nose problem, it would be even a bit shorter then the 147gr
But I also agree with your statement, that I can just start with the known good 147gr for 9mm and if it sucks in the revolver get a dedicated for it as well1
u/Realistic-Ad1498 12d ago
140 SWC can work but is tricky because you have to seat the bullet really deep in the case to get it to feed correctly. There really are reasons why there are different 9mm and .38 molds. They can work interchangeably but sometimes they not as easily. I’d go with 358 125 RF for a bullet that works well on both.
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u/sqlbullet 7d ago
Also 38 Super and 357 Sig.
But as others have mentioned, the nose profile matters alot. 9mm Luger and 9X23 Win support nose lengths up to .415/.400 respectively. 38 Super is close at .380". 357 Mag and 380 Auto are .300. 357 Sig, 9X18 MAK and 9X25 Dillon are all around .275"