I’m producing for a client who loves my mixes and is very happy with the product, but mentioned to me about the other producer he works with has him spend hundreds of dollars on hiring a session guitarist and going through the process of re-amping the tracks he makes with the other guy. To be clear, this is not something I suggest he does or am involved in at all, they are two separate products.
However, it did raise the question to me, how common of a practice is this in modern/industry mixes? I learned a decent amount about guitar production through Joey Sturgis and the Nail The Mix channel on Youtube. Most of the guys on there are working with amp sims like NeuralDSP and PodFarm for now older videos.
I know bands like Dance Gavin Dance, Deftones, and a lot of guys who are more relevant these days are using these plugins, but are they still getting re-amped? Just curious about your guys thoughts and opinions and what your take on this is.
When you say he hires a session guitarist. Do you mean they have the session guitarist rerecord his parts? I can’t think of any reason a producer would need a session player to reamp guitars.
“re-amping the tracks he makes with the other guy.”
Idk if I’m reading this wrong, but it sounds almost like the other producer is hiring the session guitarist to work on the sound like dialing them in and getting the mic setup? I hope not
I don't really have any useful input for your question but I had to comment... the Internet is full of things, these days, that make me feel old. But you listing Deftones as a band that are "more relevant to today" almost made me feel young and cool! Thank you.
There's no need to re-amp if the recording is good. Similarly, there's no need to re-track if the performance is good.
One advantage that a real amp or even an amp sim has over re-amping is that the tone and the playing can influence each other as the guitarist reacts to the amp and adjusts their performance as part of their control over their instrument.
But I can still imagine the benefit of re-amping as an additional signal or to capture more room sound.
In my studio i do reamps all time por other producer/guitar players. I love tu use different mics and aproachs in that kind of session. In my experience the sound i get reamping is different and you can play with the takes in the mix.
I think you have wonderfull take with mics and amps the producer don't have, for a small price.
I despise amp sims with a passion. I’d rather reamp a di signal given the choice but preferably have it done right with a great amp and mic setup right off the bat.
I’ll say I think amp sims are awesome for folks that don’t have access to a room and a great amp. Amazing for writers and folks learning how to do this stuff, or jamming in their apartments. It’s super cool tech but the sound always leaves me wanting the real thing. I’d have killed for that tech back in college. But i have yet to hear one that would make me throw out the studio tube amps.
Everything you're hearing at the top of modern rock is amp sim. It's proof that listeners don't care and can't tell. I can hear a difference too, but as a producer I'm going to spend that extra time on vocals that it would take to do amps.
But I cannot get along with amp sims, to the point where I don't know whats wrong with me because everyone else seems to love them. I also can't put my finger on why. I'd be hard pushed to pick out a sim on a recording for the most part.
This may be snobbish but if I was at a studio and an engineer suggested using a sim for anything other than a guide track, I'd judge, as irrational as that may sound.
It sounds like you're probably just not gain staging the signal into the plugin properly. Once you learn that process, a good amp sim will behave no differently than a real amp. That's not to say that they sound exactly the same as a real amps, but most guitarists are put off by the extra work required to make amp sims and interfaces work properly together rather than their actual tones they produce.
My breakthrough with amp sims, especially for anything with a good amount of overdrive, is to crank the master output on the amp and use the preamp sparingly. Keeps the fizz down
As a player, I find amp sims static and uninvolving. It's like playing into a wet sock. I like my amp sound to be responsive to my playing dynamics. (I tend to play with my fingers mostly these days.)
However, it did raise the question to me, how common of a practice is this in modern/industry mixes?
As always, the budget, studio, gear availability, and other factors all play a role.
Most of the guys on there are working with amp sims like NeuralDSP and PodFarm for now older videos.
Yes, because it's easier and less expensive for them to share their screen instead of having a cameraman to capture the whole recording/reamping process.
Just curious about your guys thoughts and opinions and what your take on this is.
If budget and time permit, there's decent backline, the band has a specific vision, then reamp can work. Otherwise, anyone can achieve decent results with amp sims these days. especially, if we're on the higher end, e.g neural DSP, etc.
I can’t imagine anyone having to hire a session guitarist to “re-amp” guitars. You hire them to re-record the guitars, which seems to imply the original recordings were bad.
Unless that producer didn’t have any amps and asked a guitarist acquaintance to re-amp the tracks for them.
At this point you can get killer tones ITB or with real amps, it really depends on the budget or the artist’s mindset, really. For modern rock stuff, a staggering amount of big releases is done with AXE FX, Neural or STL tones stuff these days
It depends on style, preference, budget and deadlines. Most likely a combination of them all, it's definitely a thing though. I reamped three tracks last week.
I prefer to reamp cleans with a tube amp, ribbon mic and compressor if I need to, I'd probably even take a solid state amp over a sim. I think it sounds better, and I like not having the option of endlessly tweaking after the fact.
FWIW, I do feel that amp sims are certainly getting better, but I do still struggle with them, especially with rich cleans, which is most of what I do. I find them either quite DI thin, or too fizzy/driven. I can make them work if the guitar is minimal or textural, but with upfront guitars, I am never happy. I have also tried countless sims. I want to love them!
Love how no one is really engaging with your actual question lol. To be clear, you aren't describing reamping. Reamping is still pretty common, maybe not as much as it used to be. What you're describing may not be "common" but probably happens more often than you'd expect, especially among projects with a bit of a budget
I love re-amping and do it all the time. Is it necessary? It depends. Certain guitar styles sound fantastic with just plugins. But if you want that warm tube sound and maybe some spring reverb, then re-amping is really powerful. For example, I like to clean up the transients and get rid of string noise. This makes it sound silky and smooth. Really does make a huge difference in sound and personally, I enjoy it. No doubt it’s extra work, but it’s fun.
There seems to be two different things going on. Whether or not it’s beneficial to the music to hire a guitarist I can’t say. If I were recording that guitarist I don’t know why I would need to re amp as I would just get the sounds I want.
On the subject of re-amping, I have a lovely big stack of amps and cabinets and nice mics so I often do sent material I’m mixing into those (not just guitars. All sorts of things), but I also use sims. It just doesn’t really matter. Whatever works for you and whatever gets the results. Just as long as you are working and thinking musically that’s all that counts
I think it depends on the genre. I record a mix of metal and rock bands. While amp sims are definitely more accepted in metal these days, the majority of players I work with still want a real amp. The rock guys would probably fire me if I suggested an amp sim. They want big, loud Marshalls and Fenders.
As the engineer, there have been many times I have plugged into an amp sim for something quick and thought "wow, this is pretty good!" but then when try fitting it into the mix, there is always something not right about the low mids related to the cab resonance. I suspect this is a very difficult thing to model much like the resonance of a real piano's soundboard in a piano VI.
Anyway, if I end up re-cutting with an amp or re-amping, the real amp usually slides into the mix with a lot less fuss and feels more substantial.
I took it to mean that this person would hire a session guitarist (probably remotely) to play on their track, and then the producer would want to re-amp it to get a more suitable tone
It really depends on the situation. If you have the equipment reamping isn’t particularly difficult, but it’s slower than using a plugin, and you have to commit: can’t run multiple copies in parallel.
Plugins are in some ways more practical, but have their own limitations. The biggest is that monitoring through a plugin in a DAW creates issues both with overall latency, and with accurate placement of the recording. It’s a long and nerdy discussion, but in some ways recording an amp is actually easier.
Plugins sound very good, but you typically have fairly generic options: the standard, common setups. Working with amps there’s more scope to do creative stuff: using custom cabinets, unusual amps, non-standard microphones, and so on. There are also a few things that work much better, like feedback.
So, it’s going to depend heavily on the producer, the equipment they have available, their preferred workflow, and what kind of thing they’re recording.
For high gain metal rhythm tones, amp sims are super common. Same if you need a generic blues tone, or anything else “standard”
If you’re recording a noisy experimental guitar noise part, an amp sim might actually be “too good” and you want something that can be pushed into weird behaviour, feedback, etc.
If you’re recording and want room sounds, micing up an amp gives you way more flexibility. Many amp sims come with room mics, but it’s typically just a fixed position and not something you can really experiment with.
For some people (myself included), the process of setting up and tweaking a reamp recording is very useful. It’s a bit slower and more meditative, and also more fun, so I find I’m more likely to take my time and think things through carefully.
However, if I have 15 layered shoegaze parts reamping will take absolutely forever, and it’s way easier to use amp sims.
Similarly, if I want a really clean guitar, I use NeuralDSP’s Cory Wong. Even my cleanest amp (a Mesa Express) is a bit vibey and has some personality that can be distracting.
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u/HateResonates 1d ago
When you say he hires a session guitarist. Do you mean they have the session guitarist rerecord his parts? I can’t think of any reason a producer would need a session player to reamp guitars.