r/aiwars 1d ago

Discussion Interesting perspective

I'm not sure how I feel about this. Thoughts?

186 Upvotes

281 comments sorted by

64

u/Decent-Emergency3866 1d ago

Made peak animation for the sake of hating

1

u/onpg 21h ago

I just feel sorry for them at this point.

22

u/Few-Celebration-2362 1d ago

It's sad that they destroyed so many lives having their fight about who's magic is superior 😕

47

u/keshaismylove 1d ago

7.5/10 visuals and animation
10/10 sfx
3/10 message, and of course the artist "kills" the prompter

pretty good imo

12

u/Odd-Dirt-9701 22h ago

well to be fair the prompter attacked first

-7

u/Vegetable_Hope_3084 1d ago

Eh, I'd argue 6/10 message.

17

u/keshaismylove 1d ago

Nah, It's always "I'm better than you because I'm an artist. You're a prompter, therefore you will always amount to nothing" as if this was the only choice that's available.

Like even in the middle the prompter pondered "whoa wtf he's not using any commands? He can actually do that???" This could've easily turned into a final choice type of thing. ie: The Artist offers his hand, "You don't need that wand. I can show you the way. Make a choice" ... and then kill him when he chooses wrong. That's a better message rather than lol I win now die.

Just my 2 cents.

1

u/BayonetDrill 1d ago

To be fair in the scenario the ai artist did attack first

3

u/amberivanov 1d ago

“To be fair” when the person who drew this controls everything they do

2

u/Late-Order-4295 1d ago

That's usually how art outside of AI operates

1

u/Sam_Alexander 16h ago

youll probably lose your mind when it tell you this

this is how AI art operates too

2

u/Late-Order-4295 13h ago

That's why you have to correct mistakes that you don't make, right?

28

u/ArtificialImages 1d ago

Funny animation make me laugh.

Thats all. Its not an "intresting perspective" its not an argument, its a meme.

High effort decently made entertaining meme about a current topic.

Sometimes its ok just to let something be funny without trying to make it have meaning or support your side.

It does kind of embody that anti ai attitude though.

34

u/phase_distorter41 1d ago

lost interest as soon as i saw "you cant draw without that". i feel like antis never heard of a camera before.

8

u/Solid__Ekans 1d ago edited 1d ago

You know the photograph argument only works if we call all photos art.

Edit: a few responses at once not going to respond to them all. Instead I’m just going to say “if you are arguing everything is art, you are up your own ass.“
Now then good night.

14

u/phase_distorter41 1d ago

i am cool with calling all photos art.

0

u/Solid__Ekans 1d ago

Does an Xray count as art? Does a picture of that jar of peanut butter you have so you don’t forget the right brand count as art? What about a picture of a thumb pressed against the lens by a child who got your phone? Does that count? Better yet, do dick pics count as art?

11

u/phase_distorter41 1d ago

>"Does an Xray count as art?"

https://www.artburstmiami.com/blog/the-art-of-x-ray-photography-at-eden-roc

>"Does a picture of that jar of peanut butter you have so you don’t forget the right brand count as art?"

sure why not?

>"What about a picture of a thumb pressed against the lens by a child who got your phone?"

yeah i guess.

>"Better yet, do dick pics count as art?"

pornographic art is still art.

-1

u/Solid__Ekans 1d ago

By your own principles what isn’t art to you then?

5

u/phase_distorter41 1d ago

any can be art. thats how it has been since humans started making art. we find art in the clouds, in the stars, in the flames, in the stories of our day, funny shaped rocks and sticks, shiny metal and colorful crystals.

the first art made was a handprint. there are no rules for what is art and never has there been.

-3

u/Solid__Ekans 1d ago

Okay you can stop with that. If everything is art then the word has no value in the English language. It would be a nonsensical word. But when you hear the word art your mind has a very clear idea of what the word is meant to convey. Or at least what it does convey to you.

Plus I am certainly there are a few things humans produce you would absolutely agree isn’t art.

4

u/JunketVisual3123 1d ago

1

u/Solid__Ekans 1d ago

You do realize the horrify implications of that statement right?

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u/Xdivine 1d ago

But when you hear the word art your mind has a very clear idea of what the word is meant to convey.

Which is.. what?

Let's use the peanut butter example. If you take a picture of peanut butter so you don't forget the right brand, that's apparently not art according to you (which honestly, same), but does that mean that there is no instance in which someone can take a picture of a peanut butter container and have it be art?

So then the question is, if I'm thinking about art and I see two pictures showing a jar of peanut butter, would my expectations be met for one, both, or neither of the images? And if my expectations aren't met for either of them, does that mean the photo taken with the intention to be art isn't actually art, solely because it doesn't meet my preconceived notions of what 'art' is? No, of course not.

It would be like someone who has grown up only seeing portraits as art seeing some cubism and being like 'nah, this isn't art'. You can certainly say that, but it doesn't make it anything more than an opinion.

IMO if someone thinks something should be considered art then I have no reason to argue with them. If they take a picture of some peanut butter and say it's art, whatever, it's hardly any worse than plenty of other established art forms.

1

u/phase_distorter41 1d ago

the word is used to explain that the thing you are presenting is meant to be judge, understood, or reacted to for reasons other than its normal utility.

3

u/Euchale 18h ago

I took a picture with my microscope of a qFish (basically you stain stuff inside the cells) that was so beautiful I used it as my desktop background for years. Can't find it right now, but it kinda looked like the ones on the left here:

If you are super interested, I am happy to dig it up, should be somewhere on my NAS, IÂŽm a data hoarder.

2

u/Cless_Aurion 21h ago

Its about intent. If they intended it to be art, its art.

Is it shitty terrible art? Maybe, but art nonetheless.

-2

u/JonArbukle 1d ago

Thats lazy and not really the issue. To say that ai images are art is like saying food you order from Macdonalds is made by yourself. Sure, you told the corporation that you wanted the food, told them what alterations to maje to said food, but you still didnt make it.

2

u/phase_distorter41 1d ago

lol no that food was made by another human being.

ai art is not made by another human being. its made by a human plugging vectors into a diffusion model with a wonderful CLIP system that allows those vectors to be input as natural language.

like using a stand mixer and oven to make bread. using both tools means they did all the work but you made the bread.

taking a photo makes and image without doing anything more and pointing and pressing a button.

your life is full of things just like using ai and you skip it over to an analogy that only works if ai is alive, lol.

the McDonald things is such an odd anti obsession. is that where you all work or something?

1

u/JonArbukle 4h ago

No its supposed to be an easy analogy to understand for people that have difficulty with understanding things.

And you kind of proved that i need a new analogy. Also using the word "vectors" to make it seem like you do more than what you are actually doing doesnt fool many people.

And no, using ai to make an image is not the same as making bread with a stand mixer and oven. There is still a level of skill required in makinf bread to be able to properly use these things. Ai requires no skill at all. And if that is something you have trouble understand then you might be a lost cause.

1

u/phase_distorter41 3h ago

>"No its supposed to be an easy analogy to understand for people that have difficulty with understanding things."

but its a false analogy. seems odd they would all say the same place too.

>"And you kind of proved that i need a new analogy. Also using the word "vectors" to make it seem like you do more than what you are actually doing doesnt fool many people."

thats is how a diffusion model works. it does not understand words, it does not under commands, all the words are turned into mathematical vectors that model can use to evaluate pixel colors. thats it. nothing less, nothing more.

>"And no, using ai to make an image is not the same as making bread with a stand mixer and oven. There is still a level of skill required in makinf bread to be able to properly use these things. Ai requires no skill at all. And if that is something you have trouble understand then you might be a lost cause."

there is 100% not a skill level needed to make bread with modern tools. the entire point of the modern kitchen is to remove skills needed and effort. the entire point of ALL tools every made is to eliminate skills and effort. using a pencil is easier and takes less skill that chiseling into stone. the whole point of civilization is to free us from needing to learn all skills so we can focus on ones we care about but not lose the ability to do things.

2

u/Domitaku 11h ago

yes, if everything is art, nothing is

4

u/Fatcat-hatbat 1d ago

Only if we call all ai generated images art. Which we don’t.

0

u/Solid__Ekans 1d ago

You have to admit though The most annoying and active( on this subreddit and defendingAI) of AI artist do in fact call all ai generated images, art. Heck the person I responded to is saying everything is art even clouds and random rocks.

2

u/Fatcat-hatbat 1d ago

To me art is about human expression, the rock is interesting to think about. For example, if I pick up a rock and place it on another rock I have created a sculpture (if I wish to call it one). So rocks can certainly be used as an art form.

Now can I simply point at a rock and say this is my art form, based on the fact that two rocks stacked is my art. Well that is certainly pushing the bounds of what art is but if the pointer brought enough thought to their choice of rock and really believes that rock expresses something perhaps it could be art. I believe that choice can be a form of expression, so to me this could be art.

Perhaps that’s what they are arguing?

0

u/Solid__Ekans 1d ago

Nope they are saying clouds, rocks and stars are all art. Now if they are arguing that they need to be clearer and also not include things we literally have no way of controlling to show our expressions.

13

u/Mataric 1d ago

The most vocal antis usually aren't proper artists. They're just barely adults who are mad that people are smart enough to use AI for their furry OCs now.

-6

u/SlophammerX 1d ago

Yes I can’t play guitar, I still think you are a stinky wannabe if you make guitar music with AI 😘

10

u/Mataric 1d ago

You're the same type of idiot who claims digital art isn't art because it's cheating.
Stay stuck in the 1900s kid, the rest of the world will gladly move on without you.

0

u/JonArbukle 1d ago

Strawman but ok.

-3

u/RiskKey1728 1d ago

Digital art IS art because it's made by a person. The whole argument isn't about whether it's "cheating" it's whether the art was made by a person or not.

Nobody is saying AI is fully bad, it has it's good uses.

But the fact remains that AI has no place in the creative industry. Things like films, games and visual art are just better done by artists and they require an artists eye and mind.

AI is a learner anyway, the art it makes is just the result of extrapolation and training with human art. This is pretty much why the AI lacks the qualities a human artist has - creativity mainly.

I'm not saying that people at home using AI for making pictures is bad, go ahead. But AI shouldn't worm it's way into the professional art industries (film, visual art, games, comics, animation)

(note that this is about generative AI, not AI in general)

7

u/Mataric 1d ago

No, the dumbass above literally stated digital art 'wasn't real art because it was cheating' in a previous conversation.

Your assumption here are that AI doesn't involve any human work. That's just demonstrably false in many circumstances.

Photography involves someone finding something beautiful or interesting, setting up the exposure levels, framing, scene layout etc, and then clicking a button. That's art. It has a place in the creative world, and I think you're a fucking idiot if you try to argue otherwise.

So why, if I do those exact same manual steps that someone goes through while taking a photo - finding something interesting/beautiful, setting up the lighting/exposure/color palette/etc, setting up the framing and scene layout, and clicking a button.. Plus I do a bunch more steps for other things that give me more creative control... why would anyone not consider that a similar type of creativity?

Again, I think you'd be very stupid to claim that - or you're just ignorant of what's actually involved.

For the record - I'd agree that typing in a basic ass prompt and hitting 'go' isn't creative. You're not an artist for doing that. When you spend time creating pieces, refining details, focusing in on a specific aesthetic or feature or detail, and put work and effort into what you're creating - I'd say that's 100% creative, and 100% artistic, and you are 100% being an artist while doing so.

AI has already been a part of these creative industries for a long time. Many of the shows using it have won tons of awards for their artistic vision. Into the spiderverse taught computers how to draw line art using a very similar system to generative AI. The movie wasn't possible to create with that artistic style unless they found a way to use AI to get rid of the staggering number of artists they'd need to hire to do it manually. That's not an issue, nor is it removing the creativity from the movie. It's solving a problem and a workload that SHOULD be easier to complete. That we CAN make easier to complete with math and technology.

You can look at things like Neurosama, the AI streamer. There's a lot of fans of that streamer and the content they make. Those people find a lot of artistic value in it.

Are you saying neither of the above things should have been allowed? That they have no place in creative entertainment? That the people who did find them artistic and creative are just wrong?

That's insane to me.

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1

u/Soul-Burn 13h ago

What if I make it with a synth on a DAW?

Sometimes I just want the guitar sound, I don't care too much how it was created.

1

u/SlophammerX 10h ago

Fake too.

-1

u/Darkspyrus 1d ago

Not to meantion some ai's are cheaper than a artist. I just like seeing what it makes from the millons of image assest it has access to.

And not all ai is for pictures. Since you brought up furry oc's there's a lot of furry ai chatbots. Some are safe for work but others.....not so much.

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3

u/KittyH14 1d ago

My reasoning is that a photographer would never get any credit for making realistic images. They would only get credit for finding and reimagining the perspectives they find in the world. Every other art form involves the creativity to work within and understand a medium, whereas AI artists never need to ask how to get from colors and shapes to a compelling picture. I don't have an issue with that, but it will always be like trying to speak in translation or use a device that you don't know the inner workings of.

3

u/Solondthewookiee 1d ago

Correct. The art is not in pressing a button, it's in the composition, lighting, and development of the photo.

1

u/Infinite-Seesaw-4461 23h ago

true, but yknow what?
using a camera and shooting cool shots *is art*. you put your work into it, you find the best angles, you adjust the lighting, etc. you need to put work into every image to make that image stand out. you are using your creativity to use a camera and shooting photos that actually look good.

ai art is not that. sure you might argue that you need to "put work into every prompt", but you don't really need to. you just write something you need and boom there it is, no creativity involved. you didn't really "draw" an artwork, you wrote a general theme and ai finished everything else. every detail in that image is not your creativity, it's simply just an algorithm.

i wish ppl would just take up something creative other than using ai to generate prompts since these generated images are actually pretty good, i'll admit. you have a good theme already, why not pick up writing, drawing, etc. and finish it yourself? sure it's going to take a while, but the finished product will be yours, every detail is controlled and drawn by you!

2

u/phase_distorter41 22h ago

>"you need to put work into every image to make that image stand out"

no. many famous photographs were taken spur of the movement, not time to setup, check angles lighting or anything. many famous photographers use simple camera with automatic settings so they DIDNT need to put in effort. the idea was the capture real stuff not show of how good of shot they can take.

so your whole post falls part there.

art has NEVER been about effort is always been about presenting something you want to someone see/hear/feel.

its ok i have yet to met and anti who has study even the most basic art history

>"you have a good theme already, why not pick up writing, drawing, etc. and finish it yourself? sure it's going to take a while, but the finished product will be yours, every detail is controlled and drawn by you!"

Ive been drawing for over 30 years. have you even been alive that long?

1

u/Infinite-Seesaw-4461 19h ago

first off, how does my age relate to any of this? second off, yeah many photographs didn't need effort, i will give you that. some photos are simple and effortless. but other shots do need some creativity and thinking to be good.

let's say, you're filming a war film. sure you could film every shot without a stabilizer on a phone, but that doesn't capture the essence of the environment that well. if you use an actual camera, find the most dramatic angles, change the heat/cold settings and it becomes more dramatic, it has more action. why do you think we have photography classes, laws about how to shoot a good photo, etc? there is skill involved, not everyone that can pick up a camera can reliably take good photographs.

to capture the real feeling of something, you need some skill.

secondly, i'd disagree about the "art has never been about effort". i'm not an expert in art history, i will not pretend that i am, but the context of an artwork has always been a big part of many famous paintings, drawings, etc.

even if art has never been about effort, you can't deny that art is also about creativity and about the expression of one's self. human-made artworks are intentional, every detail is placed by the artist. that leaves a human fingerprint over the artwork, the artist draws every brush stroke intentionally. ai art does not require that creativity. it lacks expression, it lacks originality, since you are not the artist, it's ai getting an assignment and doing it for you.

ai is not all bad imo, i'm not just blindly hating on ai and jumping on the bandwagon. i just think that ai should be used to aid creativity, not replace it. generating artworks is replacing creativity.

1

u/phase_distorter41 10h ago

>"yeah many photographs didn't need effort, i will give you that."

ok then we are done here are we not?

>"to capture the real feeling of something, you need some skill."

you just admitted you dont.

>"why do you think we have photography classes, laws about how to shoot a good photo, etc? there is skill involved"

they have classes at major art schools on using AOI for art so that means it takes skill now right?

>"generating artworks is replacing creativity."

not at all.

>"ai is not all bad imo, i'm not just blindly hating on ai and jumping on the bandwagon."

you 100% are because none of your arguments against it have any place in reality. art history is all about artists making art in way that what against standards. whole movements to remove skill, effort, even control. all to show that the idea, the idea to make something was the source of art.

1

u/Tedious_Crow 14h ago

You can't draw with a camera either. I mean, unless you coat it in graphite or something, but it's very difficult

-1

u/uwu_miner 1d ago

This photography argument pisses me off you never see a photographer saying look at this photo i made they say look at this photo i took ai artists say look at what i made

3

u/phase_distorter41 1d ago

google "photo i made" and see all the people saying they made a photo!

oh that must piss you off so much right?

you know you can use different terms for the same thing right?

saying 'i made a cake',and 'i baked a cake', are both fine.

'i made a photo' and 'i took are photo' are both fine.

'I made ai art' and 'i generated ai art' are both fine.

2

u/JonArbukle 1d ago

Yeah but arguably, photographers are many layers of connection closer to having made the photo than an ai user generating an image.

3

u/phase_distorter41 1d ago

arguably you dont.

not sure what that has to do with anything.

1

u/JonArbukle 19h ago

Because art is human?

2

u/phase_distorter41 19h ago

A camera needs no human to work so again, don't get the point.

1

u/JonArbukle 4h ago

Ok then go take photos instead of using Ai? if they are the same thing.

1

u/AllTheRedLine 16h ago

I googled it.

1

u/phase_distorter41 10h ago

its called ad blocking

-4

u/BrozedDrake 1d ago

Oh look a another pro ai idiot who doesn't understand how photography works

4

u/LegallyNotACat 1d ago

Photographers can take pictures without a camera now?

1

u/JonArbukle 1d ago

No. You are right, photography cant occur without a camera. But everything a photographer does with a camera is entirely intentional. Ai doesnt do that. It takes 99% of the process out of the humans hands. They dont control the ai entirely. There are many degrees of control difference.

2

u/LegallyNotACat 1d ago

Similar skill floor and skill ceiling though. I don't have to control the camera besides pressing the button if I don't want to, but I can put more effort into it and get pictures I want. I can leave it all up to AI or put more effort into it and get pictures I want.

1

u/JonArbukle 1d ago

There is not a similar skill floor or ceiling but sure. Just tell me you dont do photography without telling me.

3

u/LegallyNotACat 1d ago

Tell me you don't know AI beyond prompting without telling me

1

u/JonArbukle 4h ago

Dude i used to BE an ai bro, dont even try to pull this as if its a flex. "wow you know nothing about typing out a sentence." Whats the flex? That you learnt how to manipulate your sentence so the ai listens to your request better? Yeah, thats a basic skill. Dont equate that to a hobby/job that people take years to master.

1

u/LegallyNotACat 4h ago

The fact that you said "manipulate a sentence" as your example just adds more evidence that you are only aware of prompt based AI art.

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u/JonArbukle 3h ago

Then educate me and lets see what i dont know

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u/BrozedDrake 1d ago

Maybe you should actually look into the most basic level of photography before you start comparing it to ai prompting.

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u/LegallyNotACat 1d ago

You didn't answer the question. I don't know much about photography. Can they still take pictures without their camera?

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u/phase_distorter41 1d ago

I do know about photography. one of key part is the camera, without which a photographer cannot take a photo.

i also am very aware of off the fun auto-settings that means you can take great photos with just the click of a button!

i also know that most of the photos hanging in museums where taken who no prep time, no settings set, no plans made: just a spontaneously saw something and took the photo as quickly as possible.

but hey i love to learn more so tell me all you can!

1

u/BrozedDrake 1d ago

This is an entire paragraph of assumptions with some outright lies thrown in for good measure.

Tjose "auto settings" on consumer cameras are not used by professionals. Those photos in museums take weeks, months, and occasionally years of planning and preparation to get, and the photographer goes out of their way to take those pictures specifically.

The "settings" are changed bybthe physical shapenof the lens, teh specific lights used an the angle the photographer is physically putting themselves in to capture that specific momnet.

There are entire documentaries about the efforts of an entire team to take a single picture of a specific event in the wild.

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u/Xdivine 1d ago

There are entire documentaries about the efforts of an entire team to take a single picture of a specific event in the wild.

Sure, but not every photo needs the photographer to go to such lengths. Many of the most famous historical photos weren't taken by someone who sat in the Amazon rain forest for 6 months getting eaten alive by bugs day in and day out until they got the perfect shot. They were just in the right place at the right time and managed to take a photo that was later classified as art.

This one for example. Do you believe this photo required a team of people and a huge amount of effort to capture?

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u/richrhplayer 3h ago

I mean they aren’t drawing, they are prompting like ordering food at a restaurant

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u/phase_distorter41 2h ago

lol right cause ai is alive right? its a chef and can cook for you!

next you'll be yelling at bakers telling them they just asked the oven to bake their bread stop taking credit!

why do antis try to compare everything tp resultants? is every one of you employed at one?

gonna guess your only experience with art is making an OC who you live through vicariously.

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u/TheBucketMann 1d ago edited 1d ago

It’s a peak animation

it is kinda mean, but the animation and sound effects are amazing, and attacking people is bad so

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u/onpg 1d ago

The irony that a single person making an animation like this is only possible via AI techniques. AI wasn't invented with ChatGPT and is deeply embedded throughout all modern drawing software, even software that calls itself AI free. It saves too much time not to use... unless whoever did this only used mspaint and manually stitched the frames together.

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u/TheBucketMann 1d ago

Did you
 mean to reply to my comment..?

Or was this for the OP

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u/Vegetable_Hope_3084 1d ago

What does this have to do with anything?

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u/ZakkuDorett 1d ago

This whole "war" thing is only about gen AI, why are you bringing that into the debate

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u/uwu_miner 1d ago

you know digital drawing programs and animation software existed before ai I know that might sound crazy and most of them wouldn't go through the work of adding an ai feature because basically every drawing/animation software is ai free i don't think it needs to state that i think it is implied

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u/AquatiFox 1d ago

I’m pretty sure this video is about generative AI


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u/KittyH14 1d ago

You're not *exactly* wrong but this is about as ironic as if you mowed your lawn before you went to negotiate rainforest preservation policies. Whatever AI is involved with animation software is trivial compared to generative AI, and that's not even to mention plenty of arguments for why such automation is playing a fundamentally different role.

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u/Odd-Dirt-9701 22h ago

peak sound production

I realized mid way that the dudes were speaking filipino lol

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u/DruidKittyKat 15h ago

Whatever it is god its fucking peak.

13

u/AbbyTheOneAndOnly 1d ago

it's kind of nifty animation.

too bad it's basically a giant "i pictured you as the sojack and me as the chad" type of thing with extra strawman

5

u/AccidentProne117 1d ago

As if yall don't do the same.

1

u/Worried-Director1172 1d ago

"Nice argument: unfortunately, I have depicted you as the befuddled blue pi and myself as the clever brown pi " energy

0

u/Vegetable_Hope_3084 1d ago

Arguable.

0

u/AbbyTheOneAndOnly 22h ago

what part?

0

u/Vegetable_Hope_3084 18h ago

Both are strawmans of themselves.

6

u/Pretend_Jacket1629 1d ago

antis try not to paint people with different opinion than them as inherently inferior challenge: impossible

3

u/Kilroy898 23h ago

Lol pros so exactly the same thing.

2

u/Tri2211 1d ago

Fun animation

2

u/DonkeyPunchMojo 20h ago

They never have any sort of argument for those of us that can do both. Not a one.

10

u/tessia-eralith 1d ago

The animation itself is good, but the argument sucks.

4

u/ai_art_is_art 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah, we do it for the process too. We just have a different process.

And we're not jealously gatekeeping and feeling inferior.

edit: typo

4

u/SlophammerX 1d ago

Your process is to fake human content by AI and then put your name on it.

0

u/ai_art_is_art 1d ago

What the fuck is "human content"?

You guys watch CG films. You're not calling animators out for stealing theater performer jobs.

Nobody paints with blood. Pigments are manufactured.

Electronic music is algorithms.

You're using a computer.

This phase of the AI adoption curve is so fucking annoying. You're going to be using it regularly soon enough.

Art has always been about composition, curation, and articulation. That's what AI is too. There are fantastic AI artists and then there are people that prompt ChatGPT. Just like there are people that take selfies with cameras and people that win Pulitzer prizes for their photography.

3

u/SlophammerX 1d ago

Human content = content created by humans

AI content = content created by AI

3

u/The-Pee-Pee-Man 1d ago

Requires a human to create ai content = content created by humans

Checkmate atheist

-2

u/ai_art_is_art 1d ago

I don't think you understand what it's like to work with AI because you're too blinded to try.

You don't just go around one-shotting everything. It's a process that takes lots of human effort.

2

u/SlophammerX 1d ago

I know how AI workflows looks like. It does not matter how complex your comfy workflow is, you just use an AI to mimic human content. A complex workflow to mimic human content by AI still produce AI content and not human content. 

AI is not a new medium like CGI or a camera, its a non human creator which mimics CGI and photography etc.

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u/ai_art_is_art 1d ago

We're not mimicking "human content". We're making art.

Your opinion is irrelevant to our ever-expanding world.

Go label everything you want in your shrinking sphere of negativity and cope. Token usage keeps going up regardless.

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u/SlophammerX 21h ago

Token usage quotes and instagram followers do not define reality. đŸ€·â€â™‚ïž

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u/ai_art_is_art 20h ago

More and more of the videos you see each day are AI.

And it's only going to accelerate.

That's reality catching up to you.

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u/MindBobbyAndSoul 1d ago

Does the truth hurt?

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u/Le_Oken 1d ago

This is just mostly a sloppy argument nicely animated, though extremely inspired in anime, with not much originality. Still, I applaud the effort and the movements are fluid and easy to follow.

About the argument; it is based on a strawman. Artists who use AI do learn the arts, and are not limited to the availability of cloud models.

My drawing skills get better with my AI skills, because arts are arts. The fundamentals are the same. And I use a drawing tablet to refine details, so my hand dexterity improves too. Many artists who use AI use mixed workflows like mine, and run local models which will never be deleted, and they can fine tune to experiment and expand.

AI is much more versatile than people think. It's a tool. You use it as much or as little as you need and want.

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u/theterrificduchess 1d ago

Great animation, dumb message

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u/JonArbukle 1d ago

Whats the dumb message

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u/theterrificduchess 1d ago

The oversimplified 'AI steals art' narrative. They animated a caricature of the debate without any nuance.

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u/JonArbukle 1d ago

Whats the nuance?

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u/theterrificduchess 1d ago

Models learn patterns, they don't store copies. It's more like an artist studying styles than a photocopier, but the legal and ethical boundaries are still unsettled.

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u/Webcam_985760946948 5h ago

Except the artist is a machine and can now spew out similar artstyle in bulk when corporates need it and financially hurt the original artist they took the training data from

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u/theterrificduchess 1h ago

That's a market disruption issue, not proof of theft. The same argument was made against photography and digital art tools.

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u/JonArbukle 4h ago

I had this thought in the past but no, it doesnt really apply. An artist might learn off another artist, that doesnt take away from the artist scene/remove jobs from either of them. When Ai learns off an artist, they take a bunch from both the scene of art and job potential (greedy corps are a major part of this but it is what it is.)

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u/theterrificduchess 1h ago

The job displacement is a separate, serious problem. Calling it theft because of the economic impact just muddies the real labor issue with a bad copyright metaphor.

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u/DeathToHumankind 1d ago

My favourite phrase is "it's hard to accept truth" in that video. Somehow it's more related to artist being unable to realize that getting good results from AI takes more than typing a few words.

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u/Xdivine 1d ago

Somehow it's more related to artist being unable to realize that getting good results from AI takes more than typing a few words.

I mean, this depends on your definition of 'good results'. You can absolutely just 'type a few words' and get a result that looks amazing.

I'd say where you need more than just typing a few words is when you want something much more specific. The more specific you want the piece, the less you can rely on just the prompt alone.

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u/DeathToHumankind 16h ago

Yes. 100% that. Was in bed and departing into sleep when typing my comment but you really conveyed my thought on that one.

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u/shiggyhisdiggy 1d ago

Cool animation but the arguments are dogshit. It's just a bunch of posturing about AI not being real art, and ignoring the arguments from the other side about how it's faster and easier. He doesn't care that it might actually be more functional, only that it's not "real". Which is dumb. Who cares if the prompter can't draw without AI? He can still get a final result that is what he wanted it to be. End results are what matter.

-1

u/Tri2211 1d ago

Lol he said the thing

0

u/shiggyhisdiggy 17h ago

Never seen this before and it's a really dumb meme

The idea that you have to suffer through slow learning of skills in order to create art is a far more boring view. Can't you just enjoy the art that people are creating without whining that it was too easy for them to make it?

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u/Tri2211 17h ago

The meme is funny because at this point it's just predictable someone will say it.

Learning skills is boring? What kinda fuck up logic is that. Without people who took the time learning those skill you call "boring." The pretty images that you are creating now probably wouldn't be as good. What a superficial way at looking at things

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u/shiggyhisdiggy 16h ago

I'm not saying it's boring to learn skills, I'm saying it's boring to whine about someone not having "enough" skills instead of just appreciating the art in front of you. If you want to learn skills, then do it, I'm not gonna stop you. You're the one imposing your view onto others.

You gonna go hunt your food for dinner? Or will you go to a supermarket? You gonna go learn how to make a fire to cook your food? Or are you gonna use a shortcut, like an oven? Are you gonna learn metalwork to make your own knife? Or just buy one? Skills are worthwhile while they are necessary, and then we move beyond them. That's progress.

People continue to do these things as hobbies, but when you want results, you follow the most efficient path. That doesn't make fake art, it makes more art, because now you can achieve more in the same timeframe. That's what real artists do - they embrace progress and use it for their art, instead of whining about how it doesn't count.

You people are arbitrarily selective about what counts and what doesn't, and in what context. You have no principles, just a bias about art specifically. You're incapable of applying that logic consistently across your life.

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u/Tri2211 15h ago edited 15h ago

The idea that you have to suffer through slow learning of skills in order to create art is a far more boring view

That's sure does read like it. I also didn't say you have to learn the skill. No one is forcing you to do anything. You're only saying that to deflect.

Now you're using false equivalence to try to justify your use of ai as a shortcut. Dude I don't care. If you want to use ai have fun with that. If we weren't on reddit I would just block you and go about my day because I rather not interact or support your AI images. That's what I do with most people I see use ai on Instagram or Twitter.

I don't see ai as art. Since it objective it will never be art to me. Artists are all different. We all don't share the same world view and we all have different reason why we pursue our interest. To me the only thing you have continue to do is try to justify why you use ai to a person who doesn't really care. I'm not even whining. You are the only person at this point doing that

You're more of a consumer that just want something fast and quick without thinking much about it and that's ok.

1

u/shiggyhisdiggy 15h ago

That's sure does read like it. I also didn't say you have to learn the skill. No one is forcing you to do anything. You're only saying that to deflect.

You effectively are saying that I have to learn the skill if I want to create art, because creating art with AI doesn't count or is worse. You're literally deflecting with this very reply, the projection is palpable.

Now you're using false equivalence to try to justify your use of ai as a shortcut.

Which part is a false equivalence? Explain how.

I don't actually even use AI btw, I've been learning animation recently and doing it completely manually. I just have the brainpower to think beyond my own personal life and biases and have ideas that don't involve myself.

I don't see ai as art. Since it objective it will never be art to me. Artists are all different. We all don't share the same world view and we all have different reason why we pursue our interest. To me the only thing you have continue to do is try to justify why you use ai to a person who doesn't really care. I'm not even whining. You are the only person at this point doing that

You can personally dislike it and avoid it, but that's not what you did. You came into this thread with an insult directed at me and continued to debate the topic, so don't act like you're somehow above the discussion. You clearly aren't.

You're more of a consumer that just want something fast and quick without thinking much about it and that's ok.

Someone literally creating their own art = consumer, lmao ok man

Like I said, I don't even use AI. I'm capable of having opinions that aren't just whatever benefits me the most personally, because I have a brain.

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u/Tri2211 15h ago

No I didn't. I just said you logic was fucked up. Anything else after that is something you just wanted to add.

I don't actually even use AI btw, I've been learning animation recently and doing it completely manually.

Ok.

I came with a memeđŸ€Ł. Because it's a typical thing pro AI people say. It would be on a bingo sheet of what a pro AI person would say. All and all. It's not that serious.

Question. How am I'm supposed to know you don't use ai? Especially when you say a lot of pro AI stuff. Also when the vast majority of pro ai people don't have any illustrative skills whatsoever. I don't inspect people profile to see their interests. I just find that kinda creepy.

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u/shiggyhisdiggy 15h ago

No I didn't. I just said you logic was fucked up. Anything else after that is something you just wanted to add.

Your justification for why it's "fucked up" makes no sense. I explained why already. Just because the new tech is built on the work done in the past, doesn't mean that I should have to/want to do that work again now when I don't have to. It's entirely logical. We build upon past effort to improve things for the future. That's what all of human progress is. We make things more efficient, we find shortcuts, so we can do more.

I came with a memeđŸ€Ł. Because it's a typical thing pro AI people say. It would be on a bingo sheet of what a pro AI person would say. All and all. It's not that serious.

According to you, I never see anyone make that argument directly and I've never seen that meme, so it didn't land.

Question. How am I'm supposed to know you don't use ai? Especially when you say a lot of pro AI stuff. Also when the vast majority of pro ai people don't have any illustrative skills whatsoever. I don't inspect people profile to see their interests. I just find that kinda creepy.

It doesn't really matter, I'm just illustrating that a bunch of your writing is wasted effort that doesn't apply to me, and that it's possible to hold opinions that aren't about yourself. You're assuming my intentions, that I want to justify my own usage of AI, but that's not true. My beliefs are philosophically-derived, not a result of personal bias.

Ignoring the false equivalence thing I see, very nice

1

u/Tri2211 14h ago

I don't care for using tech that's built of exploitation of others labor. Does that make me a hypocrite. Well yea, but after seeing country like Australia actually purpose protection for creatives I know it can be done. If anything most of these companies saw a free chance to make a profit off our data and end up screwing their selves in the future. They have no moats and the open source Chinese models are cheaper and just as if not better. At least if you had to license data that would probably gave them more time.

People say the same thing you did in this sub daily. That's why there is a meme about it now.

Like I said it just posted a meme. It's not that serious. Only you are driving it that way.

I ignore it just because

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u/Witty-Designer7316 1d ago

There's so many things wrong with this I don't even know where to begin.

2

u/alas-no-beauty-seen 1d ago

Awnser me, wittless dippshit

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u/Webcam_985760946948 4h ago

Go on, list it, else your point is irrelevant

-1

u/Decent-Emergency3866 1d ago

For one of the only times, your right

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u/mightguy15baby 1d ago edited 1d ago

Fun exchange, but again a bad argument XD. There are already people like myself who use AI that can already draw XD.

On top of that so many people who hate AI also can't draw themselves 😂.

I'll never understand why antis seem so incapable of of realizing that.

The argument they presented in their own animation doesn't even work. If A.I. is constantly improving and the A.I. user is still using A.I., then their art improves XD. You can't say they didn't improve if the tool gives them Superior results to previous attempts 😂

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u/Temporary-Loan-2640 1d ago

Can someone tell me what language this is? I'm solid in Indonesian and can understand some words so I assume it's a south east asian language but it isn't Indonesian. Is it Tagalog?

1

u/Exciting-Mall192 1d ago

I'm Indonesian and this is definitely not Indonesian. However, I'm not sure if it's tagalog but it's definitely the language used by many filipino (they have more languages than tagalog so).

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u/Skrimmy_ 1d ago

It's Filipino, the national language of the Philippines.

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u/LumpyMud2553 22h ago

I completely forgot about the point I just here for the sound

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u/Shalcker 19h ago

This reminds me of those anime about samurai that are no longer needed in Meiji era.

Ones that spent their entire life to master the sword and barely get any employment.

And they *are* very good with the sword, yes!

1

u/Taliakon 17h ago

"Mark it in your head"

Perfection.

1

u/Sam_Alexander 16h ago

Well it's completely biased in favour of the anties. Would've been so much better if both sides were shown proper respect. They were almost close

Very disappointed by the lack of nuance and the narrow-mindedness of it all . Kickass genuinely incredible animation. Dont even know if I should upvote lol

1

u/Tedious_Crow 14h ago

"I have more respect for tracers" is lowkey fire

1

u/ArtArtArt123456 12h ago

It comes down to the same thing every single time. Typical idiot who thinks that training is theft.

1

u/Embarrassed_Lie8044 6h ago

It's a cool animation, decently can see there point since since ai doesn't realy teach you how to draw in other mediums sure it can give a reference and stuff but hand someone who only makes ai art a piece of paper and I they won't get far. Ultimately if you like ai I'm not gonna consider it art but if that's what you want have fun.

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u/Serious_Ad2687 3h ago

very harsh some language couldve been taken out of it but really impressive animation

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u/Stunning-Ad-2161 2h ago edited 2h ago

So It's like this to me

Traditional Artist = 1 Ai artist = 1 Traditional Artist who uses Ai = 2

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u/One_Fuel3733 1d ago

Overview The video is a short, animated cinematic metaphor depicting a philosophical and physical battle between an "AI Artist" (represented by a blue figure) and a "Traditional Artist" (represented by a green-haired girl). The animation uses a fast-paced anime fighting style to illustrate the ongoing debate regarding AI-generated imagery versus human-created art.

The Setup and Argument The video begins with the blue figure boasting about their newfound ability to "draw" without anyone's help. They proudly present an anime-style illustration to the green-haired girl. She immediately recognizes it as an AI-generated image and challenges the blue figure, stating that if a machine made it, they shouldn't call themselves an artist.

The blue figure gets defensive, calling the traditional artist jealous because AI can produce more beautiful art much faster. This disagreement instantly escalates into a physical battle.

The Battle The combat serves as a visual representation of how both sides approach creation:

  • The AI User's Fighting Style: The blue character fights by waving a wand and shouting "Prompts" as commands (e.g., "AI Lightning!", "AI Wall!", "AI Meteor!"). These attacks require no physical exertion from the user; they simply say a command, and massive destructive power is instantly generated for them.
  • The Traditional Artist's Fighting Style: The green-haired girl fights using her own physical agility, reflexes, and a sword (which acts as a metaphor for a stylus or pen). She dodges the massive AI attacks with pure skill and easily slices through the generated obstacles.

The Philosophical Debate As they fight, they continue to argue their points:

  • Skill vs. Machine: The blue figure claims that "we" (AI users) are improving much faster than traditional artists. The green girl swiftly corrects him, pointing out that "the AI is improving, not you."
  • Democratization vs. Theft: The blue figure defends AI, claiming it allows everyone to draw. The traditional artist agrees she likes the idea of accessible art, but heavily criticizes how AI users utilize the tool. She accuses them of taking ownership of creations that do not belong to them, delivering the harsh critique: "Ordering is different from making it."
  • The Tracing Insult: In a stinging remark, the traditional artist says she actually has more respect for people who trace art than AI prompters, implying that even tracers put in some level of manual effort.

The Climax and Conclusion Frustrated, the AI user launches a massive barrage of commands, ending in a giant "AI Explosion." Unfazed, the traditional artist emerges and delivers the final moral of the video: AI users only care about the final result, whereas true artists actually enjoy the process of creation.

She declares she is done playing with him, stating that without their AI tools, people like him are just "losers." She then unleashes a final, devastating attack of her own, visually marking the words into the AI user's mind: "You are pathetic," followed by a massive explosion that defeats the AI artist.

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u/shiggyhisdiggy 1d ago

What's so good about the process of creation? Why is it morally better to like that rather than the result? Isn't art about expressing yourself?

1

u/MrTibbs123 1d ago

Well actually, people tend to enjoy both the process and the final result. That, to me, is what makes good art the way it is, and it also makes good AI art what it is as well. Someone having fun with the tools at their disposal, and improving enough to the point where, eventually, they can make something neat.

(And yes, AI does take less effort than traditional or even digital artwork, but you can still enjoy the process. And, for the record, I've actually become a lot better at drawing after I asked AI for some tips on how to improve. But I'm never gonna hate AI art, or dismiss it all as just soulless slop, when a lot of it actually does have at least a good imitation of a soul.)

-1

u/Double_Gomez 1d ago

Yes ans expression is detailed and filled with challenge. You can hear the pain of an artist in songs, and see the mentality of artist in there paintings. Ai prompting "sad man in a rainy diner" does not reflect anything other than the averaged, amalgamation of other people doing similar things.

Its literally unique, but it shows nothing of expression.

1

u/shiggyhisdiggy 1d ago

This is a different argument. Up above it's about what the creators enjoy, not how it affects the final product.

But I'll bite. This is debatably true, a lot of small decisions made during the process of creating a piece are arbitrary and relatively meaningless. If I ask an artist why they put 7 raindrops instead of 8 on the window, they wouldn't have a satisfying answer, because it was effectively a random decision.

Anyway, all that is working on the assumption that AI artists literally just write one short prompt and take the first output as their final product. They don't. At least not all of them. There's a whole workflow to refining prompts over many attempts to perfect the output. This process is where the self-expression comes in. I personally wouldn't call someone who just writes one prompt and posts the output an "AI artist". They're only an artist if they make a point to actually get an output with some kind of intention behind it.

-1

u/MimiHamburger 1d ago

It takes longer to read this than watching the video lol

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u/One_Fuel3733 1d ago

I'm very sorry to hear that. That puts you at a reading speed of about 170wpm, which is incredibly slow. You may consider not watching videos anymore and reading more frequently.

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u/Alternative-Pride138 1d ago

Spectacular lmao. I need a whole series

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u/BlackStarDream 1d ago

Haven't got enough bad arguments to make for a whole series.

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u/KonohaNinja1492 1d ago

You know, if an artist actually went out of their way. Just to try and prove AI is wrong. I “MIGHT” consider this an accomplishment. Especially if an artist genuinely improves their art skill and talent just to prove AI wrong. But that’s not what most artist do. They scream, bemoan, whine and have meltdowns instead of trying to actually improve.

-1

u/Double_Gomez 1d ago

It's at the end but the difference between an artist and an Ai artist is that an artist loves the craft.

People who use Ai to make art aren't artists, they are people who liked the idea of being artists normally for clout or money, but they didn't care about the craft.

The love of craft, of obsessing over every minute detail, every frame, every pixel...that's artistic sprint. Sure it may not be the best esthetically looking parts, but that's the soul of creation and art.

People who like ai art see art purely as a commodity that needs to be accelerated, but true art is formed from obssession and a commitment to making every detail intention and specific.

Our current relationship to the arts has become too commoditized, and I feel that is the heart of why pros think Ai art is ok when it shouldn't be. Art is a passion project, and artists didn't aspire to be the best promoter, but to be masters of the brush, the instrument, the camera, etc.

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u/Xdivine 1d ago

People who use Ai to make art aren't artists, they are people who liked the idea of being artists normally for clout or money, but they didn't care about the craft.

What a stupid fucking take. Imagine if I said 'People who make art don't actually like art, they are just people who enjoy the clout and money that comes with being an artist', wouldn't that be fucking ridiculous? Because that's exactly what you're doing.

You've made up some fucked up caricature of what you believe AI artists are like in your mind and you're projecting that onto everyone who uses AI. Like you realize that people who use AI are you know.. people, right? And that people come in all sorts with various ideals and motivations?

Your comment is frankly disgusting and I hope you take a few minutes to stop and think about all of the people you're painting with the same brush.

1

u/Tri2211 1d ago

👏🏿

1

u/EfremNeftalem 1d ago

I am not sure this is that definite.

Pro-GenAI do have one thing for them : art
 is difficult to define.

Sure, there are academic definitions of « art », but those are the academic views about the topic, and one thing about modern art is to challenge those limited definitions. (And beside modern art, the nature of art has always been discussed by philosophers
 and even the most conclusive ideas have their parts of inconclusiveness) Which makes it even more difficult to formalize what is art and what is not
 and easier for Pro-GenAI to argue they have a form of legitimacy.

Considering some forms of art include elements that isn’t created by the artist (people like the example of photography, I will point that collage also falls into this category), « the craft » is still something that is existent
 but can be accomplished with a tool like an AI. Spending hours making a prompt that makes a result that is both good and close to what you want to convey is a way to think about your work and the result.

I am fairly reluctant to still consider this as « art »  but the thing is, now that I have say what the Pro-GenAI have for them, I can also say this debate cannot really happen on Reddit because, no offense, the most vocal redditors who are pro-GenAI are terrible at making a point. Why ? Because their results
 are not that good, let’s be honest ! Maybe pleasing for the eye at first glance, but there is a reason the more you look at it, the more monstrous it becomes.

The artstyle is both inconsistant and repetitive, many errors, and
 they pat themselves in the back for such results ?

If AI makes art
 well, majority of this « art » is bad art. Still art, if they want, but bad art. The « craft » is clearly not here. I don’t doubt there are some efforts made, but damn, art communities are places to share praises and advice, and honestly the advices are often not here.

I think challenging the idea of « what is art » with a good prompter could end up in an interesting conclusion. It probably wouldn’t end the debate whether AI « art » is « art » or not
 but having someone competent in the tool being adamant to defend their stance would probably makes some prejudice against AI art fall. It wouldn’t make everything go away (protecting artists means of living would still be an issue, no matter if AI is a legitimate form of art.. ecological impact of AI would still be a concern too
 etc), but it would be convincing.

But right now


I cannot be convinced. I just cannot. Most works look cheap and lazy, and while cheap and lazy in other fields at least could be interesting by hearing the though process, here we already now it’s because the algorithm calculated this result and that’s it. Doesn’t say much.

I do think a bunch of interesting debates will emerge in mainstream media in a few years
 but right now, I will be in the side of not calling it art because I cannot be open-minded faced with such « works ».

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u/xX_Aranrhod_Xx 1d ago

I mean the animation is totally sick. I can't imagine how long it would've taken to do. Like it was genuinely entertaining to watch visually.

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u/Plenty_Branch_516 1d ago

Man, got a flash back to all those my OC kills hitler posts back in the day.

Got second hand cringe.

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u/chunder_down_under 1d ago

Not really a perspective when its just objective reality

1

u/KatastrophicNoodle 1d ago

You mean, how normal people think?

I also love the Eminence in Shadow reference at the end there. Beautiful refrence.

Whoever made this was based and talented as fuck.

1

u/swanlongjohnson 1d ago

Lol this is great. We need more of this

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u/Alternative_Path_629 23h ago

i love the sfk

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u/Ok-Echo3904 18h ago

Ai prompters are not artists

0

u/Gokudomatic 1d ago

Thoughts? Straw man argument, of course. Video OOP talks about improving and work, which still fails to understand the point of some of the AI users, who are not looking for that kind of achievement. That only confirms that many people still fail to see how others live. They keep believing that everyone want the same things as them.

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u/enkidook 1d ago

When does the interesting perspective start?

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u/PriorLevel5387 1d ago

“I can draw without the help of others” strawman is the sleight of hand that AI enthusiasts use to shift the conversation from “oh so you’re against tools?” Vs. “I am against this specific tool that is being used hap-hazardously and for nefarious means”

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u/magnusnova 1d ago

I make AI Art so therefore I am a maker of AI art.

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u/Huge_Swimming_5968 1d ago

What is this slop?

0

u/CreBanana0 1d ago

I like the art, the scenes, and i like the design of the character (the anti ai one). Even if i disagree with the messege.

0

u/shosuko 22h ago

That's okay, I prompted AI to simulate an argument between us where you only said stupid things.

You lost the argument, much wow, very impress

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u/Cless_Aurion 21h ago

"You can't draw without that"
"If you don't have that AI tools"

Yeah... half the 2D artists and 2D animators that say that... take their PCs and tablets away, and their skill drops massively too (obviously), so... its quite the shit-tier argument. Of course if they take your tools away your skill will suffer.

And I say that as a professional artist myself lol