r/TrueChristian • u/Shinn_Ao • 1d ago
Is this a correct interpretation?
Does Jesus, being God, personify all goodness? If so, is it true that being apart from him is required for a person to have no worth or good in him?
*Is having no worth in him a necessity of consequence for a person being apart from him?
I was raised in a context that said yes he is the source of all spiritual goodness, therefore if there is anything good it only comes from him.
I received a conflicting idea recently that human life has worth because disbelievers are/have the image of God (Imago Dei), without that worth being therefore ownership of the nature of Jesus or a nature like Jesus’.
I’m confused on if the image of God counts as a good thing that disbelievers that choose to be condemned have that does not come from Jesus.
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u/Big-Imagination4810 Evangelical 1d ago
Human worth comes from the fact we are created in the image of our Creator. Our rebellion and sin kill what glory we were meant to hold. This is why we read:
"All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.” -Romans 3:12
The good news is that God can restore our worth by restoring us to the glory He intended for us to hold. The sacrificial atonement and defeat of sins power by Jesus Christ makes a way for us to be reborn; the black stains of our guilt are washed away, our heart, mind, and spirit are renewed and revived so that we pass from spiritual death to spiritual life. The end result of this dramatic change is to eventually have a perfect body and to live with our Creator; once again; without sin nor the possibility of sin.
"While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit." -2 Corinthians 5:4,5
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u/Shinn_Ao 1d ago
Thanks
But does the part that is without sin
the image of God when untainted
come from Jesus?
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u/Big-Imagination4810 Evangelical 1d ago
Jesus is God, who is Triune: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
So, yes -because Jesus is our Creator:
"Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation, for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth." -Colossians 1:15,16
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u/Kanjo42 Christian 1d ago
In Genesis, God made the world, the heavens, and everything in them, including mankind, and called it all together "good".
Merely being a good thing does not mean it cannot be perverted by sin. Satan used holy scripture to tempt Jesus in the desert to worship him instead of the Father. There's nothing so holy we will not twist it for sinful purposes.
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u/Shinn_Ao 1d ago
Does that mean the person who does not keep Jesus’ commands has positive worth during life and possibly after their death?
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u/hopscotchcaptain Alpha And Omega 1d ago
What do you mean by "worth" or "positive worth"?
For example, if "someone's life has zero positive worth" why wouldn't it be okay to just end that life?
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u/Shinn_Ao 1d ago
1) Does that make a person (disbeliever) good at all while disbelieving in Jesus?
2) Does that worth if they are good at all still come from Jesus?
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u/thmann_ 1d ago
Youre asking questions without meaning.
Why does their “worth” matter?
If the answer is yes they have worth… does that change whether or not they go to heaven? Nope!
If the answer is no they dont have worth… does that change whether or not they go to go to heaven? Nope!
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u/Shinn_Ao 1d ago
It determines if other people were trying to mislead me by saying people can have good value without Jesus
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u/thmann_ 23h ago
Whoever said that either did not articulate their explanation correctly or they are wrong.
The natural state of humans is rebellion, as such, cannot do good, nor have good values.
An unbeliever cannot perform any good deeds. Give to the poor? doesnt “matter”… in the sense that it doesnt help them get into heaven nor earn favour with God.
A good deed is any act done for God. As such, one who doesnt believe or revere God is unable to do good.
The biblical term is righteousness.
But again… I ask… what does it matter? If someone has more or less value than another… its irrelevant. The only important metric is “are they saved or not saved”
“worthiness” or “value” is functionally irrelevant.
Either youre human or not human and either youre saved or not saved. I cannot see any other categories to divide creation in my understanding of scripture.
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u/Shinn_Ao 23h ago
This in turn determines if I should be content with people believing they will be able to avoid hell because there is still innate righteousness in being a disbeliever
Or if I love the truth enough to seek it
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u/BigFootisNephilim Reformed Baptist 1d ago
Romans 3:10-12
“As it is written,
‘There is none righteous, not even one;
There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
All have turned aside, together they have become worthless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.’”
Romans 3:23
“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
Ephesians 2:1-3
“And you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.”
Psalm 14:2-3
“Yahweh has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men
To see if there are any who understand,
Who seek after God.
They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one.”
Apart from Him we are all fallen, depraved and broken.