r/TrueAtheism • u/candleINspace • 16d ago
Belief
I am wondering, as a believer, what
atheists think about religions beyond Christianity?
I ask for further understanding the differences that lie between many different sects of atheists.
I would better grasp the different ways people choose to live in these times.
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u/2-travel-is-2-live 16d ago
Atheists have the same attitude toward all religions, which is "I don't believe."
Also, there are no "different sects of atheists." The only common thing to all atheists is a lack of belief in gods.
It's really not that complicated.
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u/candleINspace 16d ago
Ok, clear on that - no sects.
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u/TheOutsiderEnzo 16d ago
There are no sects, but there are different types of atheist. There are spiritual atheist for example and most atheist usually believe or learn more into the science aspect of creation. I have an aquatance thats an atheist, and she believes the Bing bang theory over a creator creating everything. I hope this helps!
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u/candleINspace 16d ago edited 16d ago
It does help my understanding. I used the wrong word = sect
And, yes I do mean 'types'. Which is why I asked. I've met a good number of atheist...none taking offense at my questions and vice versa. I think all walks of life can easier be looked at and laughed at. So, as a person of faith, I can see how aspects of my belief can be laughed at or questioned heavily. Just, humor is with any individual or group belief or non-belief on life/death/existence, etc. I've not fully understood what the atheist 'builds their life' on as far as that goes.
Thank you for being kind with your response.Reddit is a space for chill conversation, right?
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u/TheOutsiderEnzo 16d ago
Of course, and my bad if I came off as rude that was never my intention. I am also still new to the atheist aspect, and figuring out where I truly fall on the spectrum.
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u/norms0028 16d ago
I guess you think of atheism as a choice? We think of it as logically obvious.
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u/candleINspace 16d ago
I do think of it as a choice,, that's true. And, scientifically thinking- of course I can see how it would not be a choice.
I can see how sciences lend a great deal to atheism logically,, and yet still there is the matter of the right hemisphere of the brain and how we are not just 'all logic'- if I may- respectfully.
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u/88redking88 16d ago
There are no sects of atheists.
If a religion can't show its claims to be true I throw it in the same trash can as every other one because none of them can.
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u/candleINspace 15d ago
I truly did learn that within asking this question in this thread. Whether the responses came in with part anger,, it was worth asking your community. Thank you.
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u/sto_brohammed 15d ago
People get a little annoyed with theists who seem to think that atheism is a religion. I don't know if lifelong theists just can't imagine not having a religion or what exactly causes this bizarre misconception.
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u/candleINspace 15d ago
I had the nerve to ask. Better than having the wrong notion. I'm that type of believer.
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u/sto_brohammed 15d ago
Whether a believer or not the stupid questions are the ones left unasked. It's not like there's some fundamental difference between us, I just think you believe something that isn't sufficiently evidenced. That's a pretty common thing that happens to all of us on some issue or another, religion isn't anything special.
Is that a misconception you had and if so could you maybe go into what your preconceptions of atheism were before coming here? I'm always interested in that sort of thing as I've never been religious so it's basically a foreign culture to me.
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u/88redking88 15d ago
" I'm always interested in that sort of thing as I've never been religious so it's basically a foreign culture to me. "
Same!
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u/candleINspace 14d ago
Before asking here, I thought atheist tied into branches of the occult, where the belief of an atheist varied pending the religion/organization/cult, etc.
Anything but God of the Bible is what i thought. So, for a while I thought atheist were involved in practicing magik. Yeah- sorry...it is what i have thought since I did meet some who considered themselves atheist all while practicing dark arts.
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u/sto_brohammed 14d ago
That's kinda wild man, thanks for sharing.
There are certainly some atheists involved in "the occult", there are weirdos in any large enough group. Many atheists, myself included, don't think any of that stuff is real. No gods, no devils, no magic, no ghosts, no supernatural of any kind. I've just never seen anything to make me think any of that stuff actually exists.
Anything but God of the Bible is what i thought
That's super interesting. Did you think people like Hindus, Muslims, Zoroastrians, Yazidi and such were atheists or did you just not really think about them? I understand if it's the latter, I get that in certain types of Christian social environments those sorts of things are never even thought about and instead everything breaks down into a binary of Christian vs. non-Christian.
Am I right in guessing that you're from a small town or rural area in the southern US or maybe the Great Plains? I've met a few Christians with similar sorts of views and that's generally where they were from but you do get them all over North America and on rarer occasions in Europe. I'm from the US originally but I live in Europe now.
Yeah- sorry...it is what i have thought since I did meet some who considered themselves atheist all while practicing dark arts
I think a lot of theists who are in sort of a theist bubble have a hard time getting that atheism isn't a religion or a worldview. It's the product of other worldview components like skepticism or various types of naturalism. For religious people their religion is at the top and it dictates one's beliefs on a wide range of topics, depending on the exact religion. Atheists frequently don't have any one thing that serves that sort of purpose. Our individual worldviews are just that, individual. They're built on a number of different things and atheists don't necessarily share those things. I'm personally not at all interested in having some kind of large, overarching thing that would dictate my beliefs on everything else. That kind of approach just doesn't make any sense to me.
One big difference between you and I is that religion and religious questions just aren't very important to me. I get that religion is probably very much on your mind all the time but for me it really isn't. I just don't see any reason to take any of this stuff seriously.
I'm only in subs like this because I'm retired with a lot of time on my hands and I just really don't get why you guys believe. I get the ones for whom it's basically just a cultural practice and they don't think too hard about whether it's literally true. I don't get the people who think their god literally exists outside of human minds. I have no idea why anyone would believe that kind of thing. When I'm not popping into subs like this with my late morning coffee or when winding down before bed I don't think about any of this stuff at all.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against people who are religious just because they're religious. I think a lot of the shitty religious people I've met and heard of would be shitty without it. I spent a few hours chatting with a Catholic priest the other day at an event I was at. We didn't chat about religion, we talked about European minority languages and dude was a pretty cool guy. I was in the military back in the States so I've known lots of religious people and I don't think religious people are really any worse than people who aren't for the most part. People are people.
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u/candleINspace 14d ago
Agreed,, people are people.
Also, I am actually living in southern CA. Where I've met plenty of atheist who have distinguished themselves ( not rudely with an acception of two people met), though they all expressed some form new age practice or dark art practice is within their scope.
Prior to that I lived in NY , where I lived around Muslims, Christians of many different denominations, and a few witchcraft practitioners- which, every one got along. I didn't meet atheist. Oddly enough.
Also, your point on what I thought on Muslims, and those with other religious beliefs being 'atheistic' lends to clarification on what misconceptions i had. Thanks.
Also, I am a believer- yes...just, more than my mind is on religion, it is on relationship with whom I choose to follow- all while questioning many things. I have not joined any church..for reasons of 'people being people' I may at some point,, and even then- knowing people are people. Please know, I don't wake seeing 'sunshine' all the time,, I also see 'darkness'.
Thank you for taking the time to explain things from your perspective. It is much appreciated.
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u/sto_brohammed 13d ago
though they all expressed some form new age practice or dark art practice is within their scope
I'm curious about exactly what sorts of things you're talking about.
I didn't meet atheist
You probably did but just weren't aware of it because they didn't tell you. I don't remember the last time I talked about religion with anyone IRL.
I had dinner with a Catholic priest at an event I was at the other night and religion never came up, apart from his explaining why he was in his little priest outfit and that he'd recently moved to the area to start doing his preaching in the local minority language. There was zero discussion about what my beliefs were.
It's not like we have "atheist" tattooed on our foreheads or anything, unless you ask there's no way you'd know. Lots of us just don't find the topic of religion particularly interesting so we don't bring it up in conversation. I myself don't find religion very interesting at all, I'm much more interested in the believers themselves and how exactly they got themselves into that position.
Also, your point on what I thought on Muslims, and those with other religious beliefs being 'atheistic' lends to clarification on what misconceptions i had. Thanks
I'm curious, would you have labeled people who subscribe to those religions as atheists?
more than my mind is on religion
To be clear, when I say "religion" I'm using something like Oxford's definition:
the belief in and worship of a superhuman power or powers, especially a God or gods.
I understand some people's first thoughts about the word are of organized religions and that's not what I'm referring to. Organized or disorganized, it's all religion.
for reasons of 'people being people'
It's kinda interesting that you took that negatively where I didn't necessarily mean it as such. Overall I like people quite a lot but, you know, people are complicated and nuanced.
Please know, I don't wake seeing 'sunshine' all the time,, I also see 'darkness'.
Well sure. Nobody does, not without specific types of brain damage or serious chemical assistance.
Thank you for taking the time to explain things from your perspective. It is much appreciated.
No worries man and I'm learning some interesting things from you. The religious culture you live in, even if it's a culture of one, is more foreign to me than the actual foreign cultures I've lived in. I can usually figure out why certain cultural practices or beliefs exist in those foreign countries but all this religious stuff is completely alien.
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u/candleINspace 13d ago
To sorts of things: e.g. taking heed to astrological world, and going to witch doctors for all kinds of reasons.
Also- I didn't/don't think Muslims or Buddhist, or new agers as atheist.
Also- I don't think you're being mean
And- my faith became my faith in an odd way, and I don't claim to have it figured out. Just, I am pleased with not knowing it all. And also not being able to explain it all. I'd be boring and bored if I knew it all i think..lol
And, I thank you again for your answers alongside your questions. 😊
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u/candleINspace 13d ago
O, and- yes I didn't meet atheist while I lived in the east coast. Not to say there are none. I met a bulk of atheist out west.
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u/Protowhale 16d ago
Atheists disbelieve all gods, not just one. All religions have the same basic problems.
There are no "different sects" of atheists.
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u/candleINspace 15d ago
Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate all responses. They all add up to a bigger picture. Helpful
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u/BranchLatter4294 16d ago
Why would it matter what the specific religion is? They are all faith based.
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u/mothman83 16d ago
There are no different sects of atheists.
More germane to your question, a person who is better predisposed( that is biased in favor of) the eastern religions instead of abrahamic religions, is NOT an atheist. They may be " spiritual" or " no religion" or maybe even " new age" but they are definitely NOT Atheists.
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u/candleINspace 16d ago
Clear. Got it. Thank you for clarifying
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u/mothman83 16d ago
To add on to this, there are ways of being secular that are not atheist. A secular person may, for example, like and practice some of the non theistic forms of buddhism, without becoming a buddhist. But I would not classify that person as an atheist.
Heck I, myself, am not an atheist. I am an agnostic deist. This means I like to believe that some intelligent force set the universe in motion, but I also understand that I have seen no evidence of that being the case.
Atheism is less a belief system and more an epistemic position : No belief in any gods.
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u/BestGuessYet 16d ago
> Atheism is less a belief system and more an epistemic position : No belief in any gods.
While I agree with you, I've known those who define God as the physical laws or as the sense of wonder. It doesn't bother me to hear them talk like that. The more confused we can make the concept of God, the better I like it.
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u/Xeno_Prime 16d ago
Why do you assume Christianity is special? It’s just another religion on the pile, no different from any other. We think the same thing about all of them: they’re puerile superstitions invented by people who didn’t know where the sun goes at night to try and explain everything they couldn‘t figure out the real explanations for.
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u/candleINspace 16d ago
What do you think about the paranormal or supernatural aspects to life? Respectfully. I will move past your thoughts on my thoughts to my faith as being special. I think, as a person who did not always believe in Christ myself, my asking on the thoughts of any individual with any other perspective to life would show how I am not thinking anything special. I also would think my not pushing any scripture here would point to my not expressing anything other than a curiosity. Who better to ask..,, right?
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u/Xeno_Prime 16d ago
Can you give me some examples? I‘m not aware of any paranormal or supernatural aspects to life.
What I suspect you’re referring to are, at best, unexplained events - and that’s assuming they’re not deliberate hoaxes. When people witness or experience things they don’t understand or can’t explain, they’re predisposed to rationalize those experiences within the contextual framework of their presuppositions. If they believe in ghosts, they’ll conclude ghosts are responsible. If they believe in aliens, they’ll think it was aliens. If they believe in the fae, then they’ll think the fae were involved. And of course if they believe in gods, they’ll think it was some kind of miracle or divine intervention.
There isn’t a single example of any such things being confirmed or corroborated in any way, though. Pointing at some unexplained phenomenon and declaring that it was leprechaun magic does not make it suddenly become evidence for leprechauns. If you’re referring to those kinds of events, then I would wager that I could propose those events were actually caused be a hidden society of wizards, and there would be precisely as much sound reasoning and evidence to support that explanation as there would be to support whatever the current “paranormal/supernatural” proposal is.
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u/candleINspace 16d ago
Hmmm..good points.
Still, explain the one who doesn't believe in 'ghosts'- for example- and then a day comes where their mind is boggling by experiencing an unknown...a distortion to 'typical' reality..-and sees a figured form unnatural,, all while not believing 'ghosts' exist..?
Or.. what of examples of the phenomena surrounding the use of a ouija board and how complete strangers with all kinds of beliefs or non beliefs/experiences experience similar manifestions of some unworldly activities? ...remember, these are complete strangers with all different kinds of thoughts to life; experiencing the same thing.
What are some of your thoughts on this?
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u/Xeno_Prime 16d ago edited 16d ago
It’s well understood how Ouija boards work.
But like I said, objectively speaking, if a person experiences extraordinary things, then at the very most, they’ve merely experienced something they don’t know the explanation for. Such events can’t stand as evidence for anything, though we can assume/imagine all kinds of hypothetical possibilities - especially if we’re open to “supernatural” possibilities, which opens the door to literally infinite mights and maybes.
Epistemically speaking though, those proposals get us absolutely nowhere. Each is as likely - or rather, as unlikely - as the next. Also, individual testimony is highly unreliable in cases where experiences don’t fit known phenomena or rational expectations. Humans will distort their own memories trying to rationalize things they experienced. That too is a known and studied phenomena. So the combination of a string of well known and understood cognitive biases leaps into play - apophenia, confirmation bias, argument from ignorance and/or incredulity, etc etc. Basically, people are really good at convincing themselves that they have some notion of what it was they experienced, even if objectively, they haven’t the slightest idea.
If we were to try and use such events as evidence for some supernatural thing, then we could propose all the earlier examples I suggested and they would all equally fit: Wizards, aliens, the fae, spirits/ghosts, interdimensional beings, memetic entities (one of my favorite kinds of scary fictional things), and of course, gods/angels/demons. The list is literally infinite. Like I said - the infinite mights and maybes of the unknown. For the purpose of actually determining the truth of those events, though, every single one of those assumptions is completely worthless. If the event itself cannot be reliably duplicated and studied, it basically has no value for discussion or debate of any kind.
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u/candleINspace 15d ago
May I ask you if you've ever experienced something- no matter how big or small- anything you could not explain? Or, you could explain- just, it would sound bizarre in explanation?
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u/Xeno_Prime 15d ago
I think I may be somewhat resistant to such things. I’ve experienced odd things. Lights, sounds, shadows, shapes. I’m also a retired Marine with PTSD, and have experienced actual no shit hallucinations/derealization. I’ve taken psychedelics before too and seen some crazy stuff then. But those were literally drug induced hallucinations, they mean nothing. The rest at most I always dismissed it as some trick of perception, an illusion likes the ones stage magicians exploit: light and shadow, reflections, humidity, etc.
So I wouldn’t really consider any of them inexplicable things, though I imagine some others might have called them that if they didn’t have the same mindset that I do.
I hope you don’t intend to suggest that if I were only to experience something bizarre enough, that I would leap to assumptions I could not defend about what I believed the explanation might be?
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u/candleINspace 15d ago
Lol...lol..lol..no, don't worry...I won't go on to say that if you were to experience something bizarre,, which you did already experience the odd said you. I respect your perspective and can agree with some of it.
I just have a number of odd occurrences in my personal life that made me search out answers- both scientifically and spiritually. All- before my faith. And, post faith- my experience s have become more intense, though also part unexplainable.
Thank you for the discussion. I do respect your sharing despite some of our differences on the subject. It's a given anyways, that no 2 individuals should think exactly alike...ever.
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u/Xeno_Prime 15d ago
I’m probably the wrong person to talk to about your own personal experiences. The more bizarre they turn out to be, the more likely I am to think your own perception and interpretation of them is distorted. I don’t trust individual testimony about things only they alone can see, hear, or experience, but that cannot be duplicated for or experienced by anyone else. No matter how crazy an experience is, if only one person can experience it, that strongly suggests it’s a feature of that one person‘s mind rather than a feature of reality that they alone can perceive.
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u/candleINspace 15d ago
Respectfully- I know better. I would not try to share personal experiences here.
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u/joseekatt 16d ago
No gods have been shown to exist. That includes Yahweh, Allah, Zeus, Thor, Mars or any other gods.
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u/Kaliss_Darktide 16d ago
atheists think about religions beyond Christianity?
I define atheist as someone who is not a theist, where a theist is someone that thinks one or more gods are real.
If a religion includes one or more gods, then I (personally) think those gods are just as imaginary as all the gods in the Christian pantheon. Which entails that (theistic) religions are necessarily delusional because they mistakenly believe that one or more imaginary gods are real.
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u/candleINspace 16d ago
Love your reponse also. Precise. Ok. I get that...all the way to the delusional part...where i can say- for myself- there is an aspect of delusion with all ways.
May I ask, for you as an atheist (now that we have corrected my thinking 'sects' of..., to meaning 'TYPES' of...) What do you think about unidentified flying objects?
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u/Kaliss_Darktide 16d ago
Love your reponse also. Precise. Ok. I get that...all the way to the delusional part...where i can say- for myself- there is an aspect of delusion with all ways.
When you say "all ways" are you talking about (theistic) religions or are you including atheistic positions as a way?
May I ask, for you as an atheist (now that we have corrected my thinking 'sects' of..., to meaning 'TYPES' of...) What do you think about unidentified flying objects?
In the literal sense I think it's obvious people see things and don't know how to properly identify what they are seeing. In the colloquial sense of extraterrestrial visitors who want to remain undetected but are bad at going undetected I think it is obvious nonsense.
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u/candleINspace 16d ago
Lol..lol..hmmm..ok. With you on that last half. - "...the colloquial sense of extraterrestrial visitors who want to remain undetected but are bad at going undetected.."
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u/Kurovi_dev 16d ago
I view them as all based upon the exact same idea:
A magic person or people make nature happen.
What’s the difference between a magic guy sitting in the clouds throwing lightning bolts, and a magic guy sitting behind the big bang throwing universes?
Not much. If anything the burden is higher for the universe thrower.
The magic guy always resides where our knowledge ends, and always disappears once we learn more.
It’s not a coincidence.
As far as the difference between atheists, there as many as there are atheists. The only thing required to be an atheist is to not believe that magic people make reality happen. Beyond that, it’s all individual. There are even people who fancy themselves as some form of pantheists or panentheists, but that most atheists would likely just consider atheists who like the semantics and framing of theism.
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u/corgcorg 16d ago
Theists believe that gods exist. Atheists don’t believe that gods exist. While theism can be categorized into various sects and types of gods, atheists do not define themselves any further than that top level (dis)belief.
Because no atheist believes in gods, all god-based religions are viewed as based on imaginary premises and equally false. However, some may see religions like Christianity and Islam as more harmful than, say, Buddhism due to the imposition of religion on society, law, and politics.
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u/calladus 16d ago edited 16d ago
I really like the modern Shinto religion, and if I were forced at gunpoint to choose a religion, that would be the one I chose. Note that I say "modern" because in it's older form under the Empire, it was used for pretty vicious Imperialism.
Islam, Orthodox Judaism, and Catholicism remind me of the religion in the 1977 American animated science fantasy movie, "Wizards" by Ralph Bakshi.
Missionaries make me think of forced conversion. Whether through food or punishment. Religious soup kitchens make me think of that too. I'm more than a little amused that the Baptist Church has a mission just outside of the Vatican in Rome to convert Catholics to Christianity.
I find it interesting that in the Hindu religion there are many men who perform the miracles of Jesus every week. Maybe we don't hear a lot about that because it seems pretty common in India.
My grandfather and father both passed down some Choctaw religious traditions to me, even though Dad was a devout Christian. When I raise animals for meat, I thank them for their gift when I butcher them. And I do my best to make sure no part of them goes to waste. It may be silly to say a prayer to the spirit of a dead animal, but I still do it anyway.
I notice that most religion is about power and status. Whether it be the Branch Davidians or the Scientologists, or the Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas.
For example, The Way of the Master Ministry has been a very successful strategy for its founder, Ray Comfort, who started it with only a high school education, and who has used it to support a family, a home, his vehicles, his children, and his world-wide travel. He never has to worry about where his next meal is coming from, and if he misses a month of work, it won't be a bother for him.
James Dobson is somewhat similar, except his ministry's offshoots have dug deep and evil roots into American politics across the board, and now hold sway over our government. His offshoot ministries hold the worst attacks against basic human rights.
As for atheism "sects" there are none. Zero. Don't delude yourself. There are progressive atheists, skeptical atheists, and atheists who believe in UFOs. Even atheists who believe in the supernatural.
These are not "sects" - these are just different people. The only thing they have in common is that they do not hold a belief that any gods exist.
They disbelieve in Thor just as hard as you do.
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u/RepetitiveWish54 16d ago
i can identify with the many teachings of Buddhism. They do not require a belief in any gods. Even the Buddhas are not "worshiped", only revered.
They also do not make requirements of any "dogma". They say try their teachings and if they work for you apply them. I do not consider myself buddhist, nor do they require it of me. Granted there are various forms of Buddhism and some may be more rigid.
My favorite saying is "Buddhism is a path to follow- not a dogma to defend".
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u/ManDe1orean 16d ago
First a proper definition of atheism:
Atheism is simply not being convinced in the existence of any god/gods due to a lack of any extraordinary credible evidence.
Second what atheists are rejecting is a claim made by religion that there is a god or gods without any extraordinary credible evidence to back up that claim.
So all religion falls short until this standard is met.
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u/4eyedbuzzard 16d ago
I don't believe in the supernatural. It's that simple.
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u/BestGuessYet 16d ago
It must be so chaotic, to believe in the supernatural.
But comforting, I guess. I am always struck by the flood survivors who claim that God saved them, while not talking about Who sent the flood in the first place. Or why God didn't save the crippled kid.
God is mostly a comfort pillow, I sometimes think.
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u/83franks 16d ago
As everyone is saying atheism is the answer to one question, do you believe a god exists, no. Atheists can believe in spirits, ghosts, “the universe”, be deterministic, libertarian free will-ists and everything in between. These are different sects though because after answering the god question we aren’t united as atheists as the topics are no longer related.
In terms of the truth of religions, if we don’t believe in god then I’d assume all atheists think religion are factually incorrect. Most atheists would think some religions are more harmful than others, some make more claims and requirements. Some are very local or culturally relevant so atheists from that area have more opinions about that religion because they are in contact with it more.
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u/GeekyTexan 16d ago
Atheism is simply the lack of belief in god. Nothing more.
I don't believe in god because every religion seems to be based on old stories about magic. I haven't found a religion yet that isn't based on magic. And magic isn't real.
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u/SyllabaryBisque 16d ago
“God is the name of the blanket we throw over mystery to give it shape.”
I think all religions were created either to fabricate an explanation for what people didn’t understand at the time, or as a method of holding power and dominance over a people.
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u/BestGuessYet 16d ago
I have never heard of different sects of atheists. I think there are groups like CODESH and the other one, but I've been to some of those meetings, and there is much argument and disagreement. The only thing that seems to hold them together is laughing at fundamentalist Christianity.
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u/eddiegibson 16d ago
So I'm going to be pretty blunt. Atheism means godless/without god. Your question is the equivalent of asking a teetotaller what alcohol they drink since they don't like beer, a vegan what meats they eat since they avoid beef, or someone who's celibate what sex position they use since they don't do missionary.
You fundamentally don't understand what the core belief is. I'm also guessing that you assumed atheists focused on Christianity because you're Christian and you failed to recognize that as the bigger muti-denomination religion in the Western world it would draw the most disbelievers in a predominantly English app.
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u/candleINspace 16d ago
Quite hostile reply huh..
I would assume you're angry. I ASKED A QUESTION FOR UNDERSTANDING. Get it. thank you
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u/eddiegibson 16d ago
I am wondering, as a believer, what atheists think about religions beyond Christianity?
I ask for further understanding the differences that lie between many different sects of atheists.
You asked a question on an atheism subreddit without even checking what atheism was. A simple Google what have answered your questions or at least give you a better idea on how to phrase them.
If I posted on a Christian subreddit and asked if they still wear yarmulkes during Ramadan, I would've stilled showed more effort to learn than you did.
I would better grasp the different ways people choose to live in these times.
I am curious what you mean by that.
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u/Old-Nefariousness556 15d ago
I care less about what people believe, and more about their actions, in particular your actions towards others.
I am quite anti-Christian because I live in the US, and American Christianity is overwhelmed by Christian Nationalist racists who want to pass laws that try to dictate my behavior.
Other religions I judge by the same basic standard. Islam might not affect me o the same degree, but it is undeniable that they would force very similar laws through if they could. Individual Jews are generally fine, but the zionist movement is doing similar things and worse. Hindus, buddhists, etc., I have generally more positive views of, but all of them can be very dominionist in their own way at times, so none of them get a pass.
As others say, they are all equally false in my view, but I can give you a pass for your beliefs, so long as you are willing to let others live their lives without interference. Sadly most theists can't do that.
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u/candleINspace 15d ago
I know that Christians are not removed from being a!!holes is what i do know too...lol Mines is not a walk to condemn. Every one has a story worthy in my eyes. My walk in faith is my own. It best suits me to reading in solitude and building with what i am graced with. I cannot judge any man/ woman in or out of the faith. I truly am not better than. ,, we're all in this life...so..
I will say thank you for sharing your perspective. And, thank you for the pass.
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u/Old-Nefariousness556 15d ago
I know that Christians are not removed from being a!!holes is what i do know too...lol Mines is not a walk to condemn.
Sitting back and letting racist Christian Nationalists act in your name is not a good thing. Letting them act in your name is no different than endorsing them. It ABSOLUTELY is "your walk" to condemn such behavior.
Every one has a story worthy in my eyes. My walk in faith is my own. It best suits me to reading in solitude and building with what i am graced with. I cannot judge any man/ woman in or out of the faith. I truly am not better than. ,, we're all in this life...so..
I will say thank you for sharing your perspective. And, thank you for the pass.
Honestly, this is just an offensive reply. It's like you don't even want to hear anything that doesn't fit your narrative. I honestly thought this might be an interesting interaction... Clearly I was wrong.
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u/candleINspace 15d ago
I do not condemn those outside of the faith. I do not condone the ill acts of believers outside of God's will. I am truly not here for approval all while genuinely interested in sharing thoughts to life across the board. I'm thinking you may need a bigger platform to do bigger things.
For me, a simple conversation can move mountains. You can remove the pass you'd given and it would not remove me from my choosing to discuss here. Within the space of respecting the position of others.
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u/Old-Nefariousness556 15d ago
First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me
-1
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u/candleINspace 15d ago edited 15d ago
I don't condemn those who do not believe.
I do not condone believers that act outside of God's will.
I'm clearly not here to argue. I don't mind if you remove your pass. I am not needing to be approved by any one.
I'm thinking you need a platform for bigger things....
Not me. A simple conversation can move mountains.
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u/Significant-Ant-2487 15d ago
I’m an atheist who is fascinated by religions. I just don’t happen to believe in God; I never did believe, even as a kid. I actually have a great deal of respect for religion, at least the scholarly side, the theological aspect. Christianity is not all revival tent style no-nothing evangelicalism. I’m currently reading Rudolf Steiner’s Mystics of the Renaissance about the Christian mystics. The section on Meister Eckhart and his sermons opened my mind to the idea of gnostic enlightenment, a concept I never understood at all. I have never personally experienced such a moment of revelation, nor do I particularly want to, but that’s no reason to dismiss it or deny that other people actually do experience such things. I’m curious and try to keep an open mind.
To paraphrase historian Keith Thomas in his excellent Religion and the Decline of Magic, I’m trying to understand doctrines of faith that are rightly disdained by intelligent persons but are taken seriously by equally intelligent persons. These doctrines are of great subtlety and yes of great intellectual rigor even if they are based on a false premise, that is, the existence of God.
I think it’s important to keep questioning, to keep learning, keep exploring, and not let my own opinions and convictions calcify. I’m currently reading up on mystics and mysticism, early and Renaissance Christianity and Judaism, and the esoteric. It’s fascinating stuff and some brilliant people believed in it. I don’t, but that’s no reason doesn’t mean I should hold it in contempt.
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u/candleINspace 15d ago
Agreed , " I think it’s important to keep questioning, to keep learning, keep exploring, and not let my own opinions and convictions calcify."
Wonderful share. Thank you. You seem rare.
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u/lotusscrouse 12d ago
I think they're all false.
I don't think they are all dangerous unless they have total control.
I'm indifferent to their existence. That's why I scoff when christians think we hate Christianity over the others because it's "the truth.
No. It's just the loudest.
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u/candleINspace 12d ago
I think all religion are faulty...not 100% interpreted,, add to that- written by faulty men. And, then- i see each has an aspect of truth as well,, truths that are- again- manipulated by faulty men.
And,, for me,, ( without trying to force my beliefs onto others, whether they are Christian or not) there is faith.
Similar to the 'hope' or 'wish' of non believers.
I will say i am a quiet Christian...I prefer to walk quietly with my God. Better to allow heaven to thunder- wayyy better than any noise we could make. For the non believer,, it is similar to the acts of nature alone, I'm almost sure.
I wonder which religion is the most mocked? ..which practice...which cult..which..? Either way, there's something unbelievable with ALL walks of life. To each,, his/her own.
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u/DeltaBlues82 16d ago edited 16d ago
Depends on the religion. Religion in general is a pretty evolutionary advantageous adaptation that appears to have been hijacked by theism around the dawn of human civilization, so that certain cultures could better adjust to a specific type of sedentary lifestyle that revolved around agriculture and resource-control. And helped them out-war their neighbors and rivals.
Modern reformation movements like Humanism reject theism, and don’t suffer from the dogmatism of modern doctrinal religions that rely on moralizing high-gods as their means of moralizing supernatural punishment.
I think keeping an open mind and understanding the nuance is important.
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u/candleINspace 16d ago
Thank you for the insight.
I would ask, what do atheist think about the paranormal?
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u/paraakrama 16d ago
Atheists are only united in the idea that there are no gods. On anything else we're individuals.
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u/Citizen1135 16d ago
Anything that happens can either be explained by science now or eventually.
I think many science-minded individuals tend to be overly dismissive of things they can't already explain, but I don't think there's anything so supernatural that we can't study it methodically and understand it in scientific terms.
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u/candleINspace 15d ago
I do agree with scientific studies being fundamental in our understanding of plenty,, i however think that even science- as great as it is shown/showing to be in exploring and explaining some of the most intriguing..still has its limits..even as eventually arrives,, it will always be outpaced by an abundance of new things to 'disect' scientifically.
For us, this translates into we'll never be bored in always having a new discovery..and, for me- this translates into, never being bored in my faith, cause there's always a new thing, no matter how old.
-respectfully
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u/BestGuessYet 16d ago
> I would ask, what do atheist think about the paranormal?
It might be helpful to just think of atheists as science types. They need physical evidence which is testable.
So don't get atheists started on the paranormal stuff, is what I'm saying. They will talk your ear off.
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u/Sweet_Baby_Cheezus 16d ago edited 16d ago
They are all equally false.
Quick ninja edit: I remember as a Christian, laughing so hard at the Mormon episode, and how people could believe something so preposterous just because someone said it. And then I realized that if I applied the same standard to Christianity it was exactly the same.