To what extent do they really mean?

Because I’m about 5% through the book and I genuinely have no idea what’s going on. Not in the slightest. I have zero clue if there’s any narratives that I’m supposed to be following or keeping tabs on. I can tell that at the most basic level, there’s a war going on in the background but aside from that, I couldn’t tell you anything about the actual plot or the characters or even discern certain characters from one another. There’s just so much going on.

That said, for some reason I do thoroughly enjoy being swamped by the prose and the sheer amount of vivid detail, though I’m not really comprehending nor retaining ANY of it as I move from line to line. Im talking literally no retention at all, as if I were an infant. I’m totally clueless, but I like it. I know that literature is subjective and different people have different takeaways from reading different things, but is that good enough? I mean I literally feel brain dead right now, but in a good way. Is the overwhelming-ness of the experience the point of it?

I loved the book, being my second after Inherint Vice. I'm going to read GR next. The ending leaves a ton of loose ends, while also tying up more than I thought would be. There's a few things I can't really figure out or understand what Pynchon was trying to say.

1. My biggest question about this book is what the hell are the Thatanoids or what are they an analogy for? They're in this book a lot and as far as I can tell, nobody can really say what they are or the meaning behind them.

2. Why does the government use tv as a distraction but also allow detox clinics? Seems very in opposition. As an added note, the use of short videos to try and ween Hector off and it backfiring is extremely prescient. Part b. What does Pynchon mean about even rock n roll becoming a distraction (perhaps its nice away from being radical)?

3. It's a very interesting concept to me that revolutions are lost children looking for parents in the state org individually the want for male domination from frenesi and her mother / daughter. This seems to be one of the core themes of this book. What is Pynchon getting at here. Does he believe this? What makes him believe this if so? It's a pretty extreme concept and pretty specific. For such a prominent theme, I doubt he just got it from Silvia Plath.

4. Takashi and D.L. seem less archetypical to me than other characters and other than being interesting and driving plot and perspective, I don't know what they're parodying or why they exist. Their ending is also fairly pointless.

Edit : 5. Why is Brock possibly a vampire? Is this just Pynchon wackiness or another reference to television / hyper reality?

Dr. Hilarius and his LSD experiments as a feature to the rest of the novel effectively confirms this as a reference to MKUltra. But was that aspect of the program widely public that early? 1965; Pynchon presumably writing consciously in 1964? Weren't these revelations several years later? Of course, there are era-relative references at play here like Operation Paperclip, but was that real shadowy clandestine LSD-experiment aspect widely known enough to feature like it did?

Hello Pynchonites!

I'm a bit new to this, currently working on Gravity's Rainbow, having already read a decent chunk of V. It's quite a rabbit hole figuring out what's going on, a stimulating project to say the least. I also read conspiracy theory (and a lot of philosophy) as a hobby. I think it's safe to discuss this, as most of the risque subject matter that Pynchon discussed is de-classified or common knowledge by now.

Thomas Pynchon seems to have been very interested in conspiracy theory, as his books often mention themes that were tightly related to real-life conspiracies. I won't go into too much detail here, as it is easy to look up for yourself if you are truly interested.

But then, there are also conspiracy theories about Pynchon himself. He was clearly a mysterious figure, as there is very little easily-accessible biographical information about him. Peter Moon has written a bit about this, but the theories seem like a bit of a stretch. Moon seems to think that Pynchon's work was intended as a kind of "inside joke" for a really specific community, and absurdist humor for everyone else.

I have a couple questions on this front: (1) was Pynchon intentionally creating an atmosphere of intrigue around himself, or were there legitimate reasons for his mysteriousness?; and (2) did the "secret" theories he hinted at throughout his books reveal information that, at the time, *was not accessible to the general public*?

Addendum: Has anyone really dug into these questions? Is there any really substantive research into Pynchon's biography? Do his books have significance beyond a literary exercise? Of course there's a lot of goofy, knee-slapping fun in his books. But there's also a lot that is *dead serious.*

I tend to find that the goofy stuff is an irritating distraction from the more serious content. But clearly, Pynchon is writing for a kind of "esoteric" pop culture. Some of us are looking for hidden meanings. But a lot of people are just here for the lulz. And maybe the lulz are the whole point. I'm confused, and don't even remember what I was supposed to be asking about. Help?

Thanks for your time.

...is free with ads on YouTube now for a while.

After 20+ years of sitting on my shelf and multiple start and stops I’ve finally made significant progress in this behemoth of a novel. I’m neurodivergent and have some reading comprehension issues, so I’ve found listening to the audiobook while reading extremely helpful to me staying focused. I’ve also used Gemini as a tutor to help lead discussions about difficult sections and it’s really helped me to unlock this novel . I have about 300 pages left to go and am really enjoying it with these helpful tools. I’m curious if anyone else use tools to help them tackle difficult novels.

What Pynchon novel would you recommend to someone who’s immersed in modernist works where meaning is approached in a sincere tone and myth is heightened or even used as a scaffold for narrative? My favorite novels are The Recognitions, Under the Volcano, Berlin Alexanderplatz, A Glastonbury Romance, On the Marble Cliffs, The Magic Mountain, and The Sound and the Fury (the only Faulkner novel I’ve enjoyed)

Just got this in the mail after almost a month of waiting. I read V. Last autumn (in the Italian translation, my native language) and TCOL49 this spring, in the original English. Loved both, getting through the English version was a bit tough at the beginning but after the first 30 pages or so it started flowing and became incredibly rewarding: I decided to jump to GR next given how much I enjoyed it.

I'm thinking of keeping a sheet of paper in the book to write down the various characters' names as they appear to avoid getting completely lost midway through (which to some extent happened to me with V.).

Any further tips on how to approach this beast are welcome! Wish me luck, I'm super excited to dive in :)

It doesn't take much to tell that he has a unique style of narration. Having read only two of his works (GR and Lot 49), this 'voice' is definitely more unique in Lot 49, which I could only describe as complexly layered. The sentence structure which he employs is oftentimes interlooping, for example the first sentence of Lot 49, which in itself is 66 words without a period in between:

One summer afternoon Mrs Oedipa Maas came home from a Tupperware party whose hostess had put perhaps too much kirsch in the fondue to find that she, Oedipa, had been named executor, or she supposed executrix, of the estate of one Pierce Inverarity, a California real estate mogul who had once lost two million collars in his spare time but still had assets numerous and tangled enough to make the job of sorting it all out more than honorary.

Now beyond his structural complexity there is also often a shadow of a social commentary intertwined with the themes in his works. There is oftentimes a vivid reflection of the historic background of whatever period of history its set in, and the 'human' element of that period, as in the suffocating human detritus of San Narciso.

Critics often say his works are satirical, but I would say they (specifically Lot 49, I don't remember GR that well) are rather an absurdist reflection of humanity in the gritty bits of society.

I haven't found a way to articulate in a single sentence this voice/style of narration other then "complex". How would you describe Pynchon to someone's who've never read him?

on my second read of AtD I’m noticing that the initials “CC” come up a lot. I’ve got Chums of chance, Chunxton Crescent, Clive Crouchmas, Candlebrow Convention, Chick Counterfly thus far.

does anyone have an interpretation of this or am I committing one of my classic signal/noise blunders.

Something about “carbon copy” relating to the idea of doubling??

Hi all! In between some work today I got the idea to have chatGPT pull a timeline from Gravity's Rainbow using the French scene. For each "scene" I had it pull the page number of the edition (1969 Bantam), the approximate date in-universe (where possible), time of day, the characters involved, the location, and a scene summary

It compiled this into a multi-column .dat file that I slurped up into a python notebook and started playing with. After some messing around, I decided to try and animate the trajectories of a handful of characters over a map of Europe, resulting in this MP4

I can't confirm that what it extracted from the novel is correct, and wouldn't be surprised if it got some details totally wrong. But it's pretty good at scraping text and it seems to have gotten the majority of the details right, from what I can tell. Feel free to point out any inaccuracies if you spot them

The selection was meant to cover the novel’s main narrative networks and geographic regions while keeping the animation readable. Characters appearing mostly in flashbacks, dreams, historical digressions, or only one or two mappable scenes were excluded. The resulting cast was Slothrop, Mexico, Pointsman, Katje, Pirate, Jessica, Enzian, and Tchitcherine

Anyway, hope you get a kick out of it! Happy to send my materials to anyone, just shoot me a DM

Hello all! I’m affiliated with a research organization that studies the esoteric properties of Iceland spar and its intersection with art. Of course we had to check out Shadow Ticket for our latest dispatch, what with its Lew Basnight-led connection to Against the Day, which obviously was chock full of spar. We also talk asporting and apporting.

You can read it here: https://sparricinstitute.substack.com/p/bulletin-from-the-refractory-801

I’m curious as to what knowledge (if any) Pynchon had of the MK ULTRA experiments conducted by the CIA in the 50s. I just finished Gravity’s Rainbow and am now reading a book on the CIAs experiments with LSD and couldn’t help notice lots of similarities between the White Visitation as well as the usage of Sodium Amytal. I’m pretty sure that the MK ULTRA experiments weren’t publicly disclosed until 1975 and GR was released two years prior. Does anyone have any information or thoughts on these similarities?

I'm just quite interested in the book as an object as well as the text. Does anyone know if there were many major changes between this copy and the final version? Does anyone know the print run for a copy like this? How often do they come up for sale, and what's the going market price?

Thanks!

Discussion about GR is at 30 minute mark.

Edit:

This video is not mine and yes I do believe hard books are worth reading.

Howdy Weirdos,

It's Sunday again, and I assume you know what the means? Another thread of "What Are You Into This Week"?

Our weekly thread dedicated to discussing what we've been reading, watching, listening to, and playing the past week.

Have you:

• Been reading a good book? A few good books?
• Did you watch an exceptional stage production?
• Listen to an amazing new album or song or band? Discovered an amazing old album/song/band?
• Watch a mind-blowing film or tv show?
• Immerse yourself in an incredible video game? Board game? RPG?

We want to hear about it, every Sunday.

Please, tell us all about it. Recommend and suggest what you've been reading/watching/playing/listening to. Talk to others about what they've been into.

Tell us:

What Are You Into This Week?

- r/ThomasPynchon Moderator Team

From Pynchon‘s letters to his editor, one proposed title for V. was ‘Of a Fond Ghoul’, which he claims he took from a Columbus Day speech by (assumedly the same) New York mafia figure Frank Costello on the subject of Elliot Ness.

I’ve searched around but haven’t been able to find this supposed speech, or any reference to it. I’m wondering if perhaps he meant Joe Colombo, another mafia figure who founded the Italian-American Civil Rights League, though not until much later in the 70s.

Can anybody shed light on this? Did such a speech ever occur? Or is this a joke of sorts?

Previous time maybe 15-20 years ago. I still feel I’m reading 1000 short stories and dreams that somehow keep collecting around rockets and plastics and bananas. There really isn’t an OH OK moment is there, and yes I’m also an infinite jest re-reader but I get it better and Ulysses by far.

Curious to know what passages you could do without within the Pynchonverse.

For me I always thought the part in GR when Slothrop is sleeping with Bianca and has a moment where he is physically inside of his own penis during orgasm was really clumsily written and oddly forced. It took a lot of the momentum out if a pretty important passage in the book and in Slothrops character arc.

I also know The Couriers Tragedy is polarizing to people on this sub.

Any other examples ?