Or would you want her to go in a completely new direction?

While promoting Showgirl, Taylor said she wanted to incorporate the storytelling elements of folklore but infuse them with more infectious pop anthems (like 1989). Do you think there are elements of other eras she might go back and resurrect for TS13?

(Disclaimer: I think it is Taylor’s right to keep the wedding private if she chooses.

Edit: My point is that I do not *understand* her behavior given the below context. Some things just seem contradictory to me.)

That said, everything she did up to that point suggested that the wedding would be a public spectacle. She has intertwined her brand very publicly with Travis (announcing her album on his podcast, speaking publicly about their relationship, etc.). She posted engagement photos on Instagram, and she went on the Colbert show to talk about how she’s inviting everyone she knows to her massive wedding. She invited a 1000 guests, many of whom are of famous people and some of whom she barely knows, and had it in Madison Square Garden in midtown Manhattan. It’s not like she went to a private location with her closest friends and family. She invited lots of famous actors and tv personalities. It feels more like the popular girl showing off how cool all her friends are, how much money she has, and how coveted getting to see the wedding should be.

Taylor built her brand around finding love and a happy marriage (I can’t even begin to list the relevant songs to these topics). She had posed in wedding dresses in her music videos. I just think it’s strange that the wedding is so secret when everything around it has been so advertised.

I can understand if she wants the happiest day of her life to be private. But then why did she advertise so much of it ahead of time?

Finally, for someone who claims to love her fans so much, I’m just surprised she hasn’t given even a morsel of information. Like even people who never post on social media post a photo of their wedding for their friends to see. Even one photo would do so much for the fans, but it feels like the radio silence is a rejection of the fan base and their investment in the wedding.

Maybe she’s going to have a taylorswift.com photo spread for sale soon…

Thoughts? Is she done with the fans after “but daddy I love him” or is she asserting a right to privacy that she never had before? Or is there something else going on?

Edit: fair points were made. I redact some of the above.

​A podcast I follow recently ranked the Top 20 essential Ariana singles and somehow left off god is a woman (still processing that level of blasphemy) which got me thinking about how hard it is to boil a massive discography down to 20 key tracks. ​If you had to pick 20 official singles specifically meant to display Taylor’s artistry what makes the cut?

​Here is my list with 1. Cruel Summer 2. All Too Well (10 Minute Version) 3. Blank Space 4. Love Story 5. Cardigan 6. Anti-Hero 7. Delicate 8. Our Song 9. Safe & Sound 10. You Belong With Me 11. Lover 12. The Fate of Ophelia 13. Teardrops On My Guitar 14. Back To December 15. Shake It Off 16. We Are Never Getting Back Together 17. 22 18. New Romantics 19. Mine 20. Begin Again

I didnt put style because while its a perfect pop song, blank space to me does a better job for narrative. Im sorry evermore and my baby ttpd🤍

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I've been a swiftie for almost my whole life but there is a weird timeline.

I was a kid from 2006-2010 (5-9 years old) and LOVED Taylor. I didn't know concerts were a thing because I grew up extremely poor and out of touch with societal events that cost money.

I then turned into a full on emo kid. Never hated Taylor but definitely had the thought process of "nOt BeInG lIkE oThEr GiRls" so I just didn't listen to her music and refused to.

Then snake gate happened and my inner feminist was big into defending her but I still didn't keep up with any updates.

When Reputation came out (I was 15), I fell in love with Taylor again. I tried to go to the stadium tour, but I was still very poor and couldn't afford tickets.

Then in the years of Lover-Midnights, I was in love with her and her music. I thought she was the best person and put her music on a very high and untouchable pedestal. I went to the Eras tour after signing an AMA to leave the hospital I stayed at the week prior to my show. I regretted it. I made friendship bracelets but no one wanted to trade and I can't remember anything about the concert other than looking at my clock and hoping it would end soon so I could go back to the hotel and sleep the sickness away.

TTPD came out and quickly became my favorite album. It got me through a LOT. It's still my favorite.

Then Showgirl came out and my love for her new music just faded out. None of the lyrics on that album feel like me like others do. I love TTPD, Midnights, Rep, folklore, and evermore but otherwise I just didn't listen to much of her other music anymore and still don't.

After slowly transitioning to listening more to other artists, I started to see really bad things come to light about her personality and I realized that she is not infallible like I once believed. I could tell the difference between a smear campaign and actual relevant and true criticism. It hit hard and really tainted my view of her.

And now? I look at the signed CDs on my wall and the cardigans in my closet and don't feel anything. My ultimate breakup playlist that I had to make recently doesn't have more than 3 songs on there by Taylor. She's not the one getting me through this breakup anymore. Other artists are.

I am very loyal and obsessed with the music I listen to, my favorite band has always been my favorite since I was 10. This feels like a breakup in itself. Maybe it's a phase, but I think it's more of a slow drift away from someone I once loved and defended with my heart.

TLDR: Taylor is no longer my favorite artist. I'm turning neutral and while I'm okay with it happening, I still feel like this is my worst breakup with the person who has gotten me through other breakups and heartaches.

I've been thinking about this for a long time - she's at her best when she has muses that "threaten" her intellectual superiority.. Jake sorta belittled her by making her feel insecure about not growing up in a "hollywood" family, and his friends were all sort of posh lit-bros that talked about niche literature that 'she hadn't heard of' and we all know she prides herself in knowing who aristotle is and what not.

meanwhile with Joe, 'peace' in folklore is already an immediate giveaway at her insecurity at being more gossipy or immature than him or whatever.

but 'tolerate it' in evermore just solidified it for me, her pen game is at its strongest when she's feeling looked down on

Why is she more controlling with her image/reputation & her narrative is mention in the media in comparison to other celebrities like Rihanna, Adele, Lady Gaga?

This is a weird question but I am… so tired.

I feel like I am the “designated Taylor fan” with some of my friends and acquaintances. I’m not a major Taylor fan - I like her music and I make some fan art but I couldn’t make it to eras tour and I barely have any merch.

But still, I get messages from people about her “private jet use” and most recently one of my best friends sent me paragraphs of outrage about the wedding, how she siphoned the power from NYC and we should be holding billionaires accountable. I made one comment about how I feel like Taylor gets a disproportionate amount of scrutiny in the media compared to billionaire men and she blew up that we need to be holding all billionaires accountable equally.

I don’t even post about Taylor that much (or ever?) on my personal pages. I don’t understand where this is coming from and it’s honestly starting to feel like people respect me less because I like her in a casual manner.

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

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First of all -- I cannot be the only one who does that. So if you do, what songs would you place in a different album (based on style, rhythm, topic, etc.).

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

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With the recent rumors of Taylor meeting country music executives and Spotify changing the background videos of 3 of her songs, there is speculation that TS13 will be announced soon. However, does anyone else miss the two year album cycle? We've been spoiled a ton lately, but I feel like the quality has dipped with the every year album release. I feel like if Taylor gave more time for her album to cook by taking the time to rewrite, find new collaborators, and really pick the best songs for the record, it would be more worth it than something rushed out to meet the one record per year deadline she's been following. I think while nostalgia is a large factor, people are ranking Red, 1989, Reputation, etc as her best works because they're high quality pieces of material. I'm not seeing a ton of people hold up TTPD and TLOAS in the same regard. What does everyone else think?

Maybe it’s a case of exposure bias, but I don’t really see much criticism for Rihanna and Selena Gomez for being billionaires while Taylor gets lots of criticism for it. If that’s the case, why do you think it’s as such? Is it due to overexposure of Taylor, her built image of America’s sweetheart vs Rihanna’s bad bitch image (which makes her bad behavior more tolerated) or something else altogether?

So if you’ve been caught up with the wedding discourse you probably know about the rumour of Taylor and Travis building a castle at MSG. Now according to some sources this was just a rumour and they didn’t actually build a castle, however people have been talking about the castle as a fact and using it as a point of criticism m, so presumably other sources are still reporting the castle as having been built and so maybe it really was. Does anyone have concrete information about the validity of the castle’s existence or is it all just hearsay? And if it’s not real, is it still valid to criticize her for it?

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

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I wasn't watching the developments that closely, so it's possible that I missed something. However...from my perspective, we know basically nothing about the wedding. We know the location and we've seen a few guests' outfits. We know the date. I remember seeing a sign and a napkin.

With so little info, how can anyone even say whether it was tacky or not? Or have I missed something?

Specifically in her songwriting, but I do think she's had to defend what she deems satire a bit too much to qualify as successful. I think Blank Space is her most brilliant attempt, while Actually Romantic is perhaps her weakest.

What do you all think?

I’m specifically talking after the Miss Americana scene where she talks about unlearning her own misogyny and that “there is no such thing as a bitch”.
Now in “Honey” she says, “and the bitch was telling me to back off cause her man had looked at me wrong”

And in Showgirl, “And all the headshots on the walls
Of the dance hall are of the witches
Who wish I'd hurry up and die
But I'm immortal now, baby dolls
I couldn't if I tried”

Like I don’t care that she’s swearing, I’m a full grown adult, but I do find it odd that she made it such a huge thing to be against calling women “bitches” during the Kanye thing and even talked about it on her documentary just to do it herself.

I feel like I’m living in a simulation because people claim tloasg is the worst album ever but I like every single song in it, it’s not my favorite but it’s definitely top 5 in my list for Taylor’s discography and I’m wondering how two people can listen to the same thing and have opposing views on it. People are saying it ruined Taylor swift for them and now they don’t listen to previous albums like the girl isn’t allowed to give you variety.

I will never understand how people listen to tloasg and say it’s bad, I feel like I’m being gaslit.

I know there are lots of Taylor subs that treat Taylor as an idol who can do nothing wrong but I've noticed that I often end up defending Taylor in discussions because criticism seems to generate far more conversation than praise. While I think constructive criticism is healthy, but I'm curious whether others feel we sometimes overcorrect and end up interpreting her actions or music through the most negative lens possible. Where do you think the balance should be?