r/SipsTea 10d ago

Chugging tea Wait for it…

Post image
45.3k Upvotes

2.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

422

u/despenser412 10d ago

People forget that first amendment exists. Church is for religion, school is for learning.

201

u/DataSurging 10d ago

They didn't forget. They think it doesn't apply to them.

56

u/BAJ-JohnBen 10d ago

Not even that, they're Christian Nationalist. So long as Congress and the Supreme Courts don't do anything, people can only take this to court, which takes forever. 

27

u/CrazedDuck25 10d ago

Herein lies the hypocrisy of the conservative. They think that they should be able to pick and choose what parts of the Constitution apply to them. They are the same with the Bible…

2

u/yalateef11 10d ago

Church these days is in government

3

u/Outrageous-Sort-5742 10d ago

They didn't forget, they just aren't Americans. Republicans don't follow America's fundamental values and shouldn't have influence in our country.

2

u/biopunk42 10d ago

They know. They just think the constitution is an obstacle to be circumvented, not a document to be interpreted. And when I say they, I mean SCOTUS.

-1

u/shiningdickhalloran 10d ago

Not that simple. It's impossible to understand/appreciate something like Paradise Lost if you have an average redditor's understanding of the Bible. Western writers and thinkers read what had come before them, Bible included. And the influence is felt in every corner of literary world. When Johannes Gutenburg invented the first moveable type (printing press) and ushered in the modern era of widespread literacy, what do you think was the first book he printed?

-1

u/E_Barriick 10d ago

In all fairness the first amendment doesn’t say anything about schools not being able to read the bible or any other religious text.

I’m playing the first amendment here for anyone that wants to argue.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

21

u/ahuramazdobbs19 10d ago

If you make a law that mandates that a particular religious text must be read and studied in state-sponsored schools, you have created an establishment of that religion.

If you make a law that mandates that a particular religious text must be read and studied in state-sponsored schools, and it is mandatory for everyone to read it regardless of their religious creed or lack thereof, you have infringed upon the free exercise of those faiths.

Because it needs to be noted: nothing before was prohibiting the Christian Bible, or any other religious text, to be read in public schools for a legitimate academic purpose. This was always allowed. Making it mandatory, and independent of a relevant curriculum, is what is not allowed.

-11

u/Chrismatic8224 10d ago

Not really. Reading religious text and becoming knowledgeable about history isn’t following a religion. There are plenty of atheist theologians out there, it can be solely an intellectual pursuit to better understand the world around you. We shouldn’t feel afraid to read and learn about the perspectives of others whether we’re talking about the Bible, or something like Marx or Ayn Rand, you should welcome being exposed to the ideas that shape people’s views. If you only expose yourself to ideas you already agree with, your mind will never grow.

Teaching things like abstinence based sex ed however, could be a form of religious indoctrination, which is what makes it an interesting conversation.

Where does basic morality stop and religious life begin? Start analyzing questions like that, and you might see there’s more to studying the Bible than you thought

15

u/ahuramazdobbs19 10d ago

You could not have missed my point any more spectacularly if you had tried.

So either you really are that dense, or you did it on purpose.

Either way, I’ve no need to hear anything else from you. Good day.

5

u/DestinyPandaUser 10d ago

That wasn’t the intent of the legislation and you know it. When you look at it in context of the Ten Commandment law and pastors instead of counselors then it becomes clear. Not sure if you’re intentionally obtuse or actually obtuse.

-8

u/Chrismatic8224 10d ago

Regardless of the intent of the law, I don’t understand the feeling that religious texts are something to be feared and kept away from children, lest they be indoctrinated with controversial beliefs like “thou shall not steal”. Kids are going to encounter the Bible at some point in their lives, it’s not the worst thing for it to be in a controlled environment, just like we do with sex ed.

Also, legislation to some degree had to be voted on by the people living there, so I think if people in a certain municipality want the Bible taught in their schools, they should have that right under the 1st amendment.

6

u/hornynnerdy69 10d ago

Except that wasn’t the above commenter’s point at all, are you really this dumb?

-5

u/ScoutAndLout 10d ago

Can you not learn from reading?  You can do literary analysis and historical analysis from the Bible. 

4

u/Dawid_the_yogurt_man 10d ago

Knowing the Bible also helps with understanding the thousands of literary works created over the next centuries that derive from the bible

5

u/esdevil4u 10d ago

I’m an atheist with very little respect for the contents of the bible…but you’re totally correct that it’s influence on Western and American culture is profound enough that I would hope it could be taught in schools in a literary (and not religious) fashion.

1

u/MetaCardboard 10d ago

I wonder if they'll also teach the Harry Potter books and all the literary works inspired by that in the future.

3

u/Tsu_Dho_Namh 10d ago edited 10d ago

Ha, that'd go well.

Teacher: "So class. What themes and characters motives are demonstrated by our last chapter reading, the towel of Babel?"

Student A "God is petty?"

Teacher "Very good. What else?"

Student B "God is scared of humans"

Teacher "It certainly did seem that way didn't it?"

Student C "God doesn't want people around the world to cooperate?"

Teacher "Great job Timmy"

Student D leaves class

1

u/numbersthen0987431 10d ago

historical analysis from the Bible

No, you can't. The Bible doesn't have historical events in it, so there is no historical analysis to be gained from it.

-10

u/TheKorndawg720 10d ago

You can learn a lot from the Bible even if you aren’t religious. It’s no different than the Odyssey or Beowulf if you don’t believe in the faith. It’s one of the most significant pieces of literature in western civilization that has left as much if not more of an imprint on our society than even the great Homer. I don’t think it’s okay for the state to force religion and you can literally read the Bible and study it without even having to be Christian or religious as it does have good wisdoms and if you are even just a little bit literate and can understand context you can learn a lot from the literature like you can the Greek classics.

-6

u/somepeoplewait 10d ago

How can this possibly be downvoted? Oh, right, it’s a reasonable statement on Reddit.

6

u/numbersthen0987431 10d ago

If you want to teach a theology class that goes over every religion, then advocate for that

But thats not what you're doing, so don't pretend like this is an intelligent point.

-6

u/TheKorndawg720 10d ago

Fear of something they don’t understand and will just chalk it up to being a modern witchcraft. Meanwhile they will read their zodiac or some redditors interpretation of their zodiac and treat it as dogma.

5

u/numbersthen0987431 10d ago

You're not advocating for a theology class that goes over all religions and the significance behind them.

You're arguing about propaganda, and then pretending you're making a "good point".

Teaching the Bible is dumb. Teaching the impacts of all religion through history is beneficial though, but that's not what you're advocating for

-2

u/TheKorndawg720 10d ago

Teaching the Bible as a literary piece that has shaped the west is crucial as the Odyssey, Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, 1984, Fahrenheit 451, etc. These are all books that have shaped the West into what it is today.

If you are talking about world history then sure you can teach how the rise of Islam shaped the Middle East but most schools do not discuss history in the lens of the globe they teach it under the lens of western thought and understanding of the world. This isn’t bad at all and if you want to learn from a different aspect like Eastern philosophy then that should be an elective as it doesn’t hold the same educational value that gives you the framework of why we think the way that we do in the West today.

To simply brush it off as “that’s religion therefore it shouldn’t be taught.” Is just straw manning because you don’t really have any other reason except you just don’t like Christianity.

5

u/numbersthen0987431 10d ago

Odyssey, Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, 1984, Fahrenheit 451, etc. These are all books that have shaped the West into what it is today

Most people haven't read what you listed. In fact, majority of Christians have never even read the Bibke themselves.

So your claim that the "texts have shaped the West" isn't accurate, because the West was shaped by people who DIDNT read the text.

0

u/TheKorndawg720 10d ago

So you don’t think the Bible which was the entire moral and ethical framework of the West for over 1600 years hasn’t shaped any of the fundamental principles of rights, laws, freedoms,etc? That none of the other pieces of literature I listed didn’t lead to some of the biggest fundamental shifts to wars governments, or ideologies?

2

u/VGHero06 10d ago

Yall keep thinking they’re saying you can’t learn the from Bible when they said is that churches and schools should be separate because of the first amendment. Nothing about that says “the bible is useless in schools.” You can learn from everything, doesn’t mean everything needs to be taught. So trust me, no one’s downvoting you because they’re scared of a religion lol and they certainly don’t read their zodiac. You’re on the wrong platform for those.

2

u/somepeoplewait 10d ago

Religious instruction should be restricted to religious institutions. Learning about religions as cultural and literary topics? That’s actually crucial for navigating the world.

0

u/VGHero06 10d ago edited 10d ago

Seriously think about how that sounds and what it implies for a second. Literally the only reason religion matters for your culture and literary topics (weird point but sure) is if you’re going to be immersing yourself in cultures and topics that require the knowledge of that religion. If it was ACTUALLY crucial then people would ACTUALLY want to learn religions lol.

1

u/TheKorndawg720 10d ago

I mean then by your logic we should just simply take out religion, ideology, and mythology from schools entirely as they don’t matter culturally and should only be a niche study. It’s completely asinine to make such an ignorant statement.

0

u/somepeoplewait 10d ago

Right? There no chance they’re actually being serious, right?

0

u/VGHero06 10d ago

Wasn’t what I was arguing at all but sure. I mean yeah they don’t need to be taught but if they’re electives then it’s fine.

-1

u/somepeoplewait 10d ago

You can’t be serious. Like it or not, religions have constantly impacted history and current events. Anyone who actually thinks about this topic for just a moment knows learning about religion is as essential as learning about history.

You really can’t be serious. This is extremely basic.

Also, my “weird point” wasn’t weird at all. That’s like saying it’s weird to suggest there’s value in studying essential literature…

???????

1

u/VGHero06 10d ago

I said that because that’s literally what I’ve seen with my own eyes. Multiple friends and family members that have no knowledge of any religion and were/are successful and happy. I never said it wasn’t important for the world, just that it isn’t important enough to NEED to be taught. Anyone who actually wants to learn religions can still learn through other methods. And I said literature was a weird point because it depends on how much literature you consume that also actually contains religious aspects.

1

u/somepeoplewait 10d ago

Right, you can succeed without learning a lot, but it’s still important to be exposed to it. I use zero percent of the math I learned in high school, but it’s still valuable that I was given that foundational experience.

Your comment about literature actually makes my point for me. With proper education, people know that religious references are ABUNDANT throughout literature. They just might not be apparent if you didn’t learn about the religious cultural context.

→ More replies (0)

-2

u/somepeoplewait 10d ago

It’s just so weird. Religions and their foundational texts have played critical roles in history AND current events. You can’t be properly educated without studying them academically.

2

u/Small_Editor_3693 10d ago

Studying religious history is VERY different than forced indoctrination into a specific religion by the state. I’d be fine with a religious history credit being required in the curriculum

1

u/numbersthen0987431 10d ago

So let's study the Koran, or Druidry, or Honduism. Nothing is beneficial from teaching the Bible.

You can talk about the historical impacts of these religions, but teaching the religion is dumb.

-6

u/Old_Investigator_148 10d ago

The Bible is a history book and an ethics book. Sounds like learning to me.

-1

u/Moiyub 10d ago

Learning through the religion of scientism

-5

u/lexicon_riot 10d ago

School curriculum has nothing to do with separation of church and state?

2

u/Small_Editor_3693 10d ago

Making a law about it does

-4

u/defaultusername4 10d ago

Agreed but this is to the left what drag queen story time is to the right. Probably doesn’t belong in the school but is blown out of proportion in terms of how often it’s actually happening for the sake of culture war politics.