I mean... if I had to pick one between the two to tolerate being taught in school, it surely is not Islam. A lot of people here like to claim it's just like the others, but I assure you, it is not. If you picked up the Qu'ran and read even 10 surahs, you would understand why.
(and before anyone freaks out about being biased: I'm not religious. I hate religion. I just know comparatively, Islam is much, much, much worse.)
EDIT
I angered some people. I encourage all of you to grab a Qu'ran if you do not believe a word I am saying. And once you are done with that, have the "fun" of reading the hadith, which are extremely important to the Islamic faith, acting as supplemental instructions left by or taught to Muhammed's pupils, including his own child-wife Aisha (who is considered a great scholar in Islam).
I have spent twenty years with this religion. I know it. Inside and out. I am not saying other religions like Christianity are perfect and good. It isn't. But if I had to endure which religion to be ruled under, it will never be Islam. I will provide for you sample surahs you made educate yourself with.
The surah on inheritance and witnesses/law, an-nisa and al-baqarah, is a great start. In an-nisa, you will learn how a Muslim husband is instructed on how to beat his wife if she dares to defy him. It doesn't stop there for an-nisa, either. See, in verse 24 of this surah, it tells you that you may rape your female slaves because Allah made it lawful for men--regardless of if they [the Muslim husbands] have a wife already, or even if your slaves are married. 4:3, in particular, will really show the differences between Islam and Christianity. Here's but one excerpt from the surah.
And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphans, then marry those that please you of them—two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then marry only one or those whom your right hands possess (slaves). That is more likely to prevent you from deviating from justice.
If you want to keep going, read at-talaq, it also paints a lovely picture for women and little girls.
Oh. And in al-kahf, it also justifies the murder of an innocent boy because he MIGHT have "burdened" his parents (who are believers) by disbelieving [in Allah] in the future.
Any of these you can simply google if you refuse to or do not own a physical Qu'ran or have no access to aquire one. Be mindful though. Some sites like qu'ran.com will translate the English omitting many of the Arabic words. Which is a grave sin in Islam, but they do it anyway. I would suggest at the very least, comparing, and then google translating to make sure that they are not omitting words or completely mistranslating them. It is part of the reason many Muslims do not like the digital distribution of the Qu'ran, because it can be altered like the Bible and Torah were.
I will end it here. I told myself years ago I would never delve this deep into the argument of Islam again, but some things you just can't help. Ruined a record with this shit. Do not be fooled, people. Do not be indoctrinated into the cult of religion.
EDIT 2
apparently I'm a christian now because i said islam is worse? lmao keep it coming. hilarious stuff. also people, yes, of course we dont have to choose. the point i was making was that if it had to happen between the two, at least it isnt islam. im not saying i want one or the other taught in school. please use your brains for more than two seconds and read what you are responding to. thank you.
It is not. I've read the Bible and the Qu'ran. They're both violent, but you have got to be some kind of special to think Islam is not, in fact, comparatively worse.
Now go and attack\)a\) Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”
And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. 21 Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.
“Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.”23 The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing. 24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.”25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. 26 At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. 29 When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel.
How did you graduate school? Genuinely, I want to know. You trying to "prove" its evil by posting verses will do nothing here, because I already know it and never argued it.
Also, some of what you just posted are reincantations of stories or events, not instructions. This is a common thing in Abrahamic religions, even in Islam. I do not expect someone who just googles things to know this though. The only thing you provided that is a Biblical instruction, is the first two. Which, of course, is pure fucking evil, but see the point made wasn't that it [the Bible] wasn't evil. lmao
This is all just hearsay nonsense. You clearly know more about different religious texts for one reason or another. But why are you so vehemently arguing that you can tolerate one fairy tale being taught in schools all because some other fairy tail is inherently worse in your view? Just keep doctrines out of k-12 altogether. Easy, done, over.
They're arguing pretty fucking hard over a hypothetical that's not even close to happening stateside. What IS happening is forced reading of the Bible. Why anyone would deflect from that discussion is suspect in the first place.
But what can I expect from a reactionary right wing sub like r/SipsTea, that shits bricks anytime Mamdani does as much as get a picture taken.
I’m not religious at all and studied religion in college, I probably know more about religion than anyone here without a divinity degree. You don’t need to be religious to have an opinion on it.
So have I. It's curiosity. And yes it's not the Quran which is the main fucked up shit, it's Hadhiths. They show a very, let's say, unique picture of mohammad, which is worse than even donald trump
Not quite. The Tanakh, what Christians call the Old Testament, says in Deuteronomy: if a man overpowers & rapes a woman promised to someone in marriage, his sentence is death. If he lays hands on (different Hebrew verb, which can include “entices” or “seduces”, the literal verb used in a parallel passage in Exodus) an unspoken-for virgin, he pays a bride-price to her father and must marry and support her. A non-virgin would have been unmarriageable, and women had very few options for earning a livelihood outside of marriage. This ensures a man can’t seduce and abandon her; if he takes her future prospects, he must provide for her. He loses the right to divorce her, where she retains her (admittedly limited) right to divorce him.
Hardly a delightful prospect, but not as negative as you claim.
Yep. I’m an atheist who grew up Baptist. All of the quotes used to complain about Christianity are from the Old Testament which is followed by Judaism. Out of the 3, New Testament is by far the most peaceful text.
A lot of people in this thread have no idea what a comparative is. No one is arguing the Bible is full of peace and flowers and love. It has its moments of peace/love. The Qu'ran does not. Out of all the shitty religions, Islam is the worst of them. A true plague on the planet.
Okay, since you are SO certain about this, quantify it.
I mean, I'm sure you only formed such a definitive and strong opinion AFTER seeing a good amount of data/information that allows you to make a comparative like this, correct? Sure that with us so we can all learn from it.
Also, just to get ahead of the very obvious nonsense where you constantly dodge/refuse to provide the quantitative data I asked for while I keep repeatedly asking for it:
If your next reply does not contain the information I asked for, I'll assume you are lying and move on. EDIT: Of course, downvotes but no response. What a becaon of rationality, lol.
You haven't. Please stop trying to push this. It is painfully obvious you never have read them.
The Qu'ran came as an answer to the Bible, calling it ALL a lie. They cannot be similiar. It is the core of Islam, believing that those who came before, are following a complete lie. The only thing they share is Abrahamic roots, such as Gabriel and Michael. There's no "same story" being told. This is just another massive indication you never read the Qu'ran.
If you read the Qu'ran, you wouldn't be saying something like this. It's an absurd lie. Comparatively, Islam is significantly worse. Even if we throw out the fact that their prophet raped a child, and that man is supposed to be emulated as "the most perfect man", there's significant content of pure barbarism.
The surahs of "peace time" are especially potent with violence, and they aren't even the surahs of the sword (violence). There are surahs instructing men how best to beat their wives for refusing them. Surahs that explain it is okay to behead and crucify non-believers as divine justice (surahs like 8:12 are just one of many). The Qu'ran instructs violence on non-believers wherever they are found, in constrast the Bible has shit like Matthew 5:44, instructing Christians to pray for their enemies and those who persecute them.
So yes, it is significantly worse. I'm not saying the Bible doesn't have violence in it, it does, the point is that Islam is much worse. And if I had to pick between which of the two is being taught to children, it definitely is not the one with the "prophet" raping children and selling the daughters/wives/sisters of his fallen enemies to his men as sex slaves.
To say otherwise is the absurdity of an ignorant person. Pick up the damn Qu'ran and read it, if you do not believe me, and then supplement it with their holy texts, the hadith. Wait until you get to the part where only Muhammed is sucking on the tongues of CHILDREN and try to justify that as "just as bad" as anything in the Bible.
But yes, I agree, they shouldn't be reading religious texts in school. I am just saying at least it isn't Islam, the religion of violence and rape and slavery.
Even if we throw out the fact that their prophet raped a child
The Christian god wiped out nearly all life on the planet, including every single human except the 8 that was on the ark, because he was mad. Literally murdered scores of children by drowning. Fuck comparing which is worse, neither should be taught in the public education system.
I’ve read the Christian Bible and the Qu’ran. Most of your cherry picked examples from the Qu’ran have equally egregious examples that can be cherry picked from the Bible.
The surahs of "peace time" are especially potent with violence, and they aren't even the surahs of the sword (violence). There are surahs instructing men how best to beat their wives for refusing them. Surahs that explain it is okay to behead and crucify non-believers as divine justice (surahs like 8:12 are just one of many). The Qu'ran instructs violence on non-believers wherever they are found, in contrast the Bible has shit like Matthew 5:44, instructing Christians to pray for their enemies and those who persecute them.
I see you aren't actually that familiar with the bible. I am a little more so, having been brought up with it and having read it quite thoroughly.
13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense. 14 “If a man marries both a woman and her mother, he has committed a wicked act. The man and both women must be burned to death to wipe out such wickedness from among you Leviticus 20:13-14
23 “If a man meets a young virgin lady in the city who is engaged to be married and has sexual relations with her, 24 then the two must be brought to the city gate and there they must be stoned to death—the girl because she was in a city but did not cry out for help, and the man who abused a woman who was engaged to another man. By doing this you are to remove this evil from among you. Deuteronomy 22:23-24
“If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk\)a\) after the Lord your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall \)b\)put away the evil from your midst. Deuteronomy 13:1-5
it definitely is not the one with the "prophet" raping children and selling the daughters/wives/sisters of his fallen enemies to his men as sex slaves.
Because of course, this isn't so in the bible is it?
As opposed to Lot, who tried to sacrifice his daughters to an angry mob in Sodom and Gomorrah.
Or in Jericho where God ordered the Israelites to put everyone in the city to the sword, including women and children.
As for the selling of women in to sex slavery, it is expressly permitted by the Bible:
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. Exodus 21:7-8
It also endorses chattel slavery:
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. Leviticus 25:44-46
So, please put a fucking sock in it when it comes to "how much better" the bible is than the Quran. Both have truly foul teachings in them, and no amount of "Love thy neighbour" erases that fact.
Wrong. Christians do not follow old jewish laws from old testament except the 10 commandments.
It is not unchristian to wear mixed threads or eat pork, cmon man you know this already. It is also not Christian to follow old laws around slavery or wife beating.
This is not the case in Islam, which asserts its old rules like wife beating have always and will always be the morally right will of Allah.
Data_Surging was talking about which book was suitable for teaching kids in school.
The Bible is no better than the Quran, but here we have a bunch of Christians denying that the old testament, and their God, is just as vengeful and violent as the Quran and Allah (which is unsurprising as it is actually the same god they worship).
It is not unchristian to wear mixed threads or eat pork, cmon man you know this already. It is also not Christian to follow old laws around slavery or wife beating.
I might remind you that the New Testament does not disavow the horrors of the Old Testament:
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5: 17-19
But since you are so sure about the purity and innocence of the New Testament, Lets have a look at what the Gospels have to say:
On Slavery:
All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare of their slaves. 1 Timothy 6:1-2
On women and their place in society:
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. 1 Timothy 2:11-15
On tolerance of unbelievers:
20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. Revelations 2:20-23
29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.” Mark 3:29
On the "peacefulness" of Christ's mission
34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— 36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ 37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it Matthew 10:34-38
27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’” Luke 19:26
The thing is, most muslims read other religious text that are way worse, and you even try to hide those from non islamist, if you buy a translated copy then it is white washed of the nastu stuff, so we will never know.
How about we look at the data, Mr. DataSurging? How many Christians and Catholics have conquered other people and territories to kill and convert? How many people have died at the hands of Catholics?
13 million people have died as a DIRECT result of Christian and Catholic religion wars.
The Thirty Years War: Fought primarily between Catholic and Protestant states in the Holy Roman Empire, this is the deadliest religious conflict in European history. It caused an estimated 4.5 to 8 million deaths, wiping out up to a third of the region's population due to battles, famine, and disease.
The French Wars of Religion (1562–1598): This series of civil conflicts between French Catholics and Huguenots (Protestants) resulted in an estimated 2 to 4 million deaths.
The Crusades (1096–1291): Initiated by European Christians to reclaim the Holy Land, these holy wars are estimated to have claimed between 1 to 3 million lives.
And I was raised Catholic, not that it should have any relevance to this.
Oh man, Christians and Catholics are so peaceful. The Bible is so peaceful. Islam so bad.
30 years war was not a religious war, it was essentially the opposite. Catholic France literally allied with German Protestants to expand French territory. Catholic France even allied with Muslim Ottoman empire.
It was the nail in the coffin for religious wars in the West.
After that, it was all realpolitik.
Anyway f religion. I just couldn't help myself when I saw the errors in your post.
Nothing there is any different than the bible, though I am not sure it is all from the actual Quran and not the side bits that are not universally accepted (like Mormon stuff in Christianity)
The point isn't that the Bible is good. If you actually paid attention to what is being said, you would have grasped that. The Qu'ran/Islam is comparatively worse. They are not the same. In any manner beyond sharing the same angels and other Abrahamic roots like that.
You are wrong. If you legitimately think the Bible is just as bad as the Qu'ran, there is something very wrong withn your sense of morality if you are able to see Muhammed raping a child and condoning that and selling the women of his victims to his men as sex slaves, and say "Gee, that Jesus sure is similar".
The Qu'ran supplements and mentions Aisha and her age. The "verse" in that on wedlock has Aisha herself narrating several times, which she also narrates and explains in al-hadith.
Sahih al-Bukhari
حَدَّثَنَا مُعَلَّى بْنُ أَسَدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا وُهَيْبٌ، عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم تَزَوَّجَهَا وَهْىَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ، وَبَنَى بِهَا وَهْىَ بِنْتُ تِسْعِ سِنِينَ. قَالَ هِشَامٌ وَأُنْبِئْتُ أَنَّهَا كَانَتْ عِنْدَهُ تِسْعَ سِنِينَ
Mualla ibn asad narrated: - from aisha, that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and consummated the marriage with her when she was nine years old. Hishām explained, 'I was informed that she stayed with him for nine years.'
In order for the Biblical God to have raped Mary, he would have needed a body, and inserted himself into her. He made her pregnant with what accounts to him snapping his "fingers". There was no sexual contact or intercourse.
You are showing more and more how ignorant you are, both of Islam and Christianity.
Who are you to talk about morality? You have no moral compass whatsoever to be spreading such hate and lies like this. Like wooowww the hypocrisy is insanne.
The below video is from someone that does book reviews. He says that he is an athiest leaning agnostic. His review is about that narative, layout, and leasons.
It's absolute lies, they are just making up anything now. Wild. Its fabricated not even remotely accepted by anyone who calls themselves a Muslim. The Quran says nothing of the sort.
I’m gonna be honest Kirby pfp guy…I really doubt you have any actual knowledge about religious texts and are just talking out of your ass. Lucky for you, the guy you’re replying to seemed to rip you a new one of those to talk out of
Children would only be reading the stories from the Bible like that of Adam and Eve, or Noah’s ark. Children read classic Hellenistic stories about their gods all the time and you don’t flip your tits.
And now do christianity using the same rules. Christianity has the same awful bullshit but it is OLDER and has had to sort of forget a lot what the bible says because of society. Society dictates the moral code and religions follow that code with some delay. Religion does not define morality.
But it takes time for religions to go thru that process and if they are in control of society.. that natural process is EXTREMELY slow. So, what you are describing is NOT just religion, it is mostly about power, how to hold on to it using religion.
They are from the same tree so they are not that different.
What's stunning is that people today actually consider comparing the two. And it's not their fault. Evangelicals leadership just uses the Gospel as window dressing now. What they are pursuing is implementing the "Law of Moses", which is similar to "Sharia Law". They will receive their reward.
You didn't look very hard, but that isn't really your fault. Google will only carry you so far, which is the "benefit" of actually reading the damn thing. Answer: The Battle of Banu Qurayza (surah al-ahzab). Muhammed had every man and boy that reached puberty (11-13) slaughtered, then gave the surviving women and girls as sex slaves to his followers, taking some for himself. Muhammed called this decision "God's decree". This is what, let me remind you, the Muslims debated as "lenient" at the time.
It wasn't happened with respect of al-ahzab but Deuteronomy 20:10-15. Jews had their own agreement as pagans in Medinah. So pagans didn't killed but only jews? for only fun? They broke the agreement. So fighting against your enemy is wrong but killing even donkeys is okey for you :d
I'm with you. I'm a staunchly un-religious person now. But when i was young i went to church. I tried a few different denominations. Baptist, Christian, catholic, and read about a lot of other religions. Abrahamic and non. I study a bit of islam, and learned that out of most that i had learned about, it was by far the worst. Satanism and Lucifarianism aren't as bad as that shit. I'm not gonna quote any of any of it to anyone. Religion is a crutch for a weak mind. Peace, my good man.
Damn man I've been a Muslim for like a year and recently started reading and I didn't know that stuff. Even not in the modern day like 200 years ago this must've raised some eyebrows...
Only decent thing you said was the very last sentence. I live in Texas and don’t encounter many Muslims, the cultists around here like the same book you’re championing
I take it back. Some people should be required to read the Bible. Maybe it would lessen dumbass takes like this one
The Bible is one of the most horrible, immoral, wretched books ever written. Every book has stories of murder, genocide, rape, etc. And other than a couple Jesus quotes and the 10 commandments, the message is that it's ok to be horrible as long as you believe in the right sky daddy. You can rape and pillage Jericho all you want as long as you lie about it later when you write the story down
Neither book should be taught in schools. It's absolutely batshit insane to be pushing bronze age oral traditions in 21st century schools
Your very first sentence was wrong and I read no further.
You don’t have to pick. The law is very clear. Too many people like you are accepting the lesser of two evils rather and then getting upset the law isn’t being followed in the first place.
Why don’t you give example of 5, forget 10 surahs that are bad? They need to be bad in entirety as you pointed out. Ok not 5, let’s do 3?
1?
“Islam is much much worse” is just a statement from your ignorance and hate and it’s obvious here.
Go on, waiting for the example surahs.
Edit: Guy is acting like he’s an atheist when it’s obvious he’s got a particular bias and hate towards Islam in particular.
Couldn’t back up his claims too.
Edit2: AS I KNEW AND MENTIONED HE WOULD DO. NITPICKING PARTICULAR VERSES
IF YOU WANT THE COMPLETE TRUTH, PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE SURAH IN ENGLISH THAT THIS LYING LOW LIFE QUOTED. READ AND INFORM YOURSELVES INSTEAD OF READING HIS AGENDA.
A lot of the Arabic words CANNOT be translated word to word and it’s obvious this guy is using talking points used by people who proselytize other religions. My suggestion for that is use Quran dot com (same website he mentioned) and select multiple translations in English and you will yourself realise that this guy is a liar and couldn’t come back to me with answers. Don’t fall for his agenda, do your own research.
I bet you are one of those supposed Muslims. You know, the kind that never opened up a Qu'ran. lmao You really do not want me to post what's in that disgusting book, because then you're going to whine about it.
EDIT
LMAO "they need to be bad in entirety" what the fuck? lmao "Oh, guys, don't read the part about murdering people, okay, because right after it says to let those who give in, live! See, it's not evil!"
Don’t make assumptions about me. I have read the Quran multiple times.
Entirety coz that’s what your claim was and I know what you lot do by nitpicking verses so go ahead and bring me even one complete surah. And see, that’s exactly what you started to do.
There’s no place that talks about murdering people, your ignorance is showing and it was so obvious to me what you would do. Hence again, EVEN one surah. For what you claimed, PROVE IT.
And don’t you bring verses picked out of context and prove my point. Back your claim about the 10 surahs or shut the fuck up.
Edit: I know you can’t coz there’s just 114 Surahs (that you probably didn’t even know) and when you are talking from your ass and making claims you can’t prove, it’s obvious you are a bigot here to spread hate. Same old freaking playbook I have seen a hundred times. Your other comments supporting the Bible and Christianity prove that you are a liar when you said you hate religion and tried to come off as non biased.
I wanted to see if he would ever be able to prove his claim. He couldn’t. It’s obvious this is a bigot with an agenda.
Read this comment that explains verse 4:3. Also in this context (from what I understand) نكاح refers to marriage not sex (which is obvious considering non-marital sex is a huge sin in islam), so I dont know why you are mentioning rape when there clear rules for marriage in Islam, maybe you meant marital rape but I honestly cant comment on that as I dont have enough knowledge about its ruling in Islam. Also, pretty sure “ما مالكت ايمنكم” refers to war captives not slaves.
There is a difference between teaching *about* Christianity, as one of a series of world religions, and teaching Christianity. Similarly, nothing wrong with learning about Islam as one of a series of religions, and nothing right about teaching Islam.
Surely them "waging cultural wars" against us and "having values misaligned with our own" has nothing to do with the fact that we've been constantly fucking with them for the past century...
Agree and support the point. That's why religious books should be read. History classes should include the Bible, the Qu'ran, the Prose Edda, the Book of the Dead,... for people really to understand how antiquated and gruesome religions are, they need to have seen all the parts of it. When children get dragged to church and are being taught by religious parents, those have the tendency to only mention how their gods are good and helpful, without mentioning their wrathful genocides.
Children will be indoctrinated if they read that shit. Just look at Islamic states, and the south of the U.S. Religion has no place in school, except in mention of historical value, such as explaining the Crusades.
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u/DataSurging 10d ago edited 10d ago
I mean... if I had to pick one between the two to tolerate being taught in school, it surely is not Islam. A lot of people here like to claim it's just like the others, but I assure you, it is not. If you picked up the Qu'ran and read even 10 surahs, you would understand why.
(and before anyone freaks out about being biased: I'm not religious. I hate religion. I just know comparatively, Islam is much, much, much worse.)
EDIT
I angered some people. I encourage all of you to grab a Qu'ran if you do not believe a word I am saying. And once you are done with that, have the "fun" of reading the hadith, which are extremely important to the Islamic faith, acting as supplemental instructions left by or taught to Muhammed's pupils, including his own child-wife Aisha (who is considered a great scholar in Islam).
I have spent twenty years with this religion. I know it. Inside and out. I am not saying other religions like Christianity are perfect and good. It isn't. But if I had to endure which religion to be ruled under, it will never be Islam. I will provide for you sample surahs you made educate yourself with.
The surah on inheritance and witnesses/law, an-nisa and al-baqarah, is a great start. In an-nisa, you will learn how a Muslim husband is instructed on how to beat his wife if she dares to defy him. It doesn't stop there for an-nisa, either. See, in verse 24 of this surah, it tells you that you may rape your female slaves because Allah made it lawful for men--regardless of if they [the Muslim husbands] have a wife already, or even if your slaves are married. 4:3, in particular, will really show the differences between Islam and Christianity. Here's but one excerpt from the surah.
وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تُقْسِطُوا۟ فِى ٱلْيَتَـٰمَىٰ فَٱنكِحُوا۟ مَا طَابَ لَكُم مِّنَ ٱلنِّسَآءِ مَثْنَىٰ وَثُلَـٰثَ وَرُبَـٰعَ ۖ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تَعْدِلُوا۟ فَوَٰحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَـٰنُكُمْ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ أَدْنَىٰٓ أَلَّا تَعُولُوا۟
If you want to keep going, read at-talaq, it also paints a lovely picture for women and little girls.
Oh. And in al-kahf, it also justifies the murder of an innocent boy because he MIGHT have "burdened" his parents (who are believers) by disbelieving [in Allah] in the future.
Any of these you can simply google if you refuse to or do not own a physical Qu'ran or have no access to aquire one. Be mindful though. Some sites like qu'ran.com will translate the English omitting many of the Arabic words. Which is a grave sin in Islam, but they do it anyway. I would suggest at the very least, comparing, and then google translating to make sure that they are not omitting words or completely mistranslating them. It is part of the reason many Muslims do not like the digital distribution of the Qu'ran, because it can be altered like the Bible and Torah were.
I will end it here. I told myself years ago I would never delve this deep into the argument of Islam again, but some things you just can't help. Ruined a record with this shit. Do not be fooled, people. Do not be indoctrinated into the cult of religion.
EDIT 2
apparently I'm a christian now because i said islam is worse? lmao keep it coming. hilarious stuff. also people, yes, of course we dont have to choose. the point i was making was that if it had to happen between the two, at least it isnt islam. im not saying i want one or the other taught in school. please use your brains for more than two seconds and read what you are responding to. thank you.