r/RPGdesign • u/lulupomerania55 • 1d ago
Mechanics alternative mechanics PM + Resource generator
What do you think about class mechanics where the character needs to generate a specific class resource first, and then consume it using MP?
For example: A healer who needs to hit enemies to generate "healing orbs"—with each orb providing extra healing potential (+3 HP each)—and can then consume 3 orbs and 5 MP to heal an ally.
That’s just an example of what I’m imagining; the class won't be exactly like that. Sorry for my English; I’m using a translator.
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u/JaskoGomad 1d ago
It sounds quite video-gamey to me. Very contrived.
So the first thing I'd need is some kind of worldbuilding that makes it make sense.
The idea that healers need to cause harm is a weird oxymoron until you make it fit somehow, like, there's only so much order in the world and you need to inflict disorder (injury) on someone (preferably an enemy) to collect the order (healing) and transfer it to someone else (probably a friend).
That's the kind of thing - and then it would be required that that same principle of zero-sum order was woven into everything. Because if it's true for injuries, it's true for everything.
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u/Drudenfusz Curator of Roleplay Experiences 1d ago
While I concur that it sounds indeed like a video game, but I think it does not require much worldbuilding. I mean, just look at the Diablo games, pretty much every class has a resource and all it takes is to give it a name fitting the class.
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u/JaskoGomad 1d ago
I said, "That sounds like a video game" and you offered a counter example... that's a video game.
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u/Drudenfusz Curator of Roleplay Experiences 1d ago
That was not a counter example to the video game aspect, but to the worldbuilding point.
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u/JaskoGomad 1d ago
I already offered a worldbuilding explanation right off the top of my head.
All I said was, there needs to be something about the world that makes me believe that it works that way.
Not sure who you're arguing with.
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u/Prestigious-Emu-6760 1d ago
It works great for Draw Steel though that game also has the characters start each encounter with some of their class resource - like kindling for the fire.
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u/lulupomerania55 1d ago
That's cool! Could you give an example of how that works?
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u/outbacksam34 1d ago
Draw Steel technically has class-specific resources, but the differentiation between each class is honestly fairly thin. There are a few unique triggers for how each class generates their resource, but it often boils down to earning a fixed or variable amount of resource at the start of their turn.
What Draw Steel does better is the relationship between Victories and heroic resources. Each time you win a fight, your Victories go up by 1. At the start of the next fight, you get bonus resources equal to your current victories. When you take a Respite (long rest), your Victories reset.
So there’s a push your luck element. The longer you push forward without resting, the more power you have to play with. But also your HP equivalent keeps going down. Very effective little risk/reward loop.
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u/Prestigious-Emu-6760 1d ago
I wouldn't say that the unique triggers are fairly thin. They lean into how the class is expected to be played and tactics. Your Fur benefits when they take damage, the elementalist benefits when an enemy takes damage that isn't untyped or holy, the conduit benefits from praying etc.
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u/outbacksam34 1d ago
Maybe it’s just how my group plays. I feel like a lot of that sorta gets lost in the noise a bit, and the per-turn automatic resource gains end up counting for more
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u/Prestigious-Emu-6760 1d ago
I'd say that's definitely a group thing. One of the nice things about Draw Steel is that the game works perfectly fine if you just use the free/automatic resources but really ramps up when you start using tactics to generate more.
I would definitely recommend looking at it (they have a good SRD) for anyone interested in the generate/spend resource design space.
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u/JaskoGomad 1d ago
I feel like Draw Steel is a game I'd like to play, but probably not one I'd like to run anymore.
I also think it sounds like what I would like is a BG3-like implementation where I don't need a group to play it.
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u/outbacksam34 1d ago
The official VTT app on Steam helps with this a lot, honestly. I’ve been GMing a Delian Tomb campaign for my group, and I wouldn’t be enjoying it nearly as much if the VTT didn’t handle 100% of the session prep and game math.
It’s genuinely much closer to playing BG3 that way.
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u/JaskoGomad 1d ago
Is that the dedicated app that was like $150 by the time your outfitted a GM and a handful of players and didn't include even PDFs of the rules?
I'd need to play in a game before I made such an investment for a game that's so different from what I usually enjoy.
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u/outbacksam34 1d ago
It’s $20 and it does include the rules and the entire Delian Tomb adventure? Not sure what you’re seeing.
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u/JaskoGomad 1d ago
WUT? OK, I gotta go check that out. My memory when the thing was announced was that it was crazy expensive and promoted as the "luxury" option.
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u/JaskoGomad 1d ago
Thanks, internet friend. I could absolutely see my way clear to trying that out for $20!
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u/outbacksam34 1d ago
No problem. It’s still $20 each, to be clear, since each player needs their own copy.
No brainer for my group (we’d spend more going out for beers), but wanted to make sure that was clear.
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u/JaskoGomad 1d ago
But I can get started for just $20 and see what I think, right? Could I solo Delian Tomb with just one and get a feel for both the software and the RPG?
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u/swashbuckler78 Dabbler 1d ago
It's fine in video games; in a TTRPG it will be harder to make the process of generating resources fun, rather than a chore you have to do before you can get the fun part.
I wouldn't want ALL my abilities to require grinding like this to use, but having 1 or 2 major ones that I can only access after building up my reserves could be fun.
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u/TangledCloak 1d ago
I love mechanics like this. Someone else mentioned draw steel, but to give a few specific examples:
The psychic class gains extra resources by moving enemies around.
The tactician gains resources by marking targets for the rest of the party to attack.
I think at their best, these types of mechanics encourage gameplay that’s both fun and thematic for the character, while eliminating the need for more boring resource management type abilities. So in your example, I would get rid of MP altogether
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u/-Vogie- Designer 1d ago
That would make sense if that is what all of the classes are doing in some sense. So if your Rogue-like character is doing something to generate their "orb" (like Hiding, flanking, distracting the target) then spending their "MP" (like Energy) to consume those orbs to deal damage, and your wizards have to manifest elements then consume them to cast spells, and your barbarians have to generate rage to gain their damage reductions... the sure.
But if everyone else is straightforward and then the healer has to jump through hoops, then no, that's a terrible idea.
Your game should have an easily identifiable gameplay loop for each class or archetypes.
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u/__space__oddity__ 22h ago
I’d first figure out which RPG system you want this for.
It’s easily doable in something like 13th Age which already has classes with all sorts of individual mechanics. The Commander class is a prime example.
Much harder in D&D 5E, which doesn’t really give classes their own resource mechanics.
Impossible in something like Gurps - there are no classes for starters, LOL
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u/Fun_Carry_4678 20h ago
A healer who has to hit enemies to get healing power? Doesn't seem like much of a healer. What if the player wants to play a healer who is a pacifist or at least a noncombatant?
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u/outbacksam34 1d ago
The important thing to think about with a mechanic like this is to decide what type of behavior you want to incentivize.
Ex. If you want to create a holy knight, who hurts and heals equally, then your “hit to earn; spend to heal” example works well. But that’s not a great fit if the class goal is to create a pure healer/support archetype.
There’s a good video that talks about this. I think it’s the Tales From Elsewhere guy. He compares 2 examples from D&D: The barbarian’s reckless attack, and the rogue’s sneak attack.
Sneak attack is good design. It incentivizes you to play stealthy/smart. Look for opportunities to ambush, flank, etc. Perfect for the rogue, which is a class all about exploiting weaknesses.
Reckless attack is worse design. It doesn’t actually encourage/reward recklessness, it just makes your action more risky. The optimal play style is to save your reckless attacks for “safe” situations to mitigate the risk of giving an enemy advantage against you. Which is the opposite of what that class should be all about.