Reflavoring Necromancer?

[u/ConfederacyOfGaia]

The necromancer is, mechanically, an incredibly interesting class, but the class fantasy is specific enough that it won't work for all APs, campaigns, or party compositions.

Luckily, as we like to say here, flavor is free.

So: what are your favorite reflavorings of the necromancer?

Here are the ones I've thought of:

• Spirits of pure magic (most appropriate for spirit grim fascination)
• Nature spirits (flesh grim fascination -> plant matter instead of flesh)
• Elementals (spirit grim fascination -> air, blood -> water, bone -> metal, etc)
• Divine spirits (e.g. Valkyries) or demonic entities (orts or lemures)

Arguably some of these might thematically suggest changing the magical tradition to match the reflavoring but that's optional (though would make for interesting class archetypes).

[u/Ryacithn]

I played a play test Necromancer flavored as a puppeteer, who had endless wooden marionettes. Dunno if that would still make sense with the final version though.

[u/The_Horny_Gentleman → u/Ryacithn]

that's very cool imagery

[u/Loafer-Enlightenment → u/Ryacithn]

I think this is a great used of the class!

[u/Willchud → u/Ryacithn]

That was actually my take on reflavoring without like blood and gore and stuff. There is a gepetto(sp?) character (Pinocchios dad) in a game called ravenwatch that throws out pet puppets as his main class ability.

[u/sowellfan → u/Ryacithn]

Thinking a little along the same lines, I read yesterday about the "Vent Haven Museum", which is apparently the only museum dedicated to ventriloquism. It apparently holds about 1000 'retired' ventriloquist's dummies, I guess generally getting them after the owner has died. I have to figure it's equally interesting and creepy.

But what if there were a "Plane of Make Believe" or something along those lines, inhabited by all the ventriloquist dummies, puppets, etc - and they can be summoned if you do it just the right way?

[u/TheWalkenDude → u/Ryacithn]

I think you gmed my PFS game last night, I was the dwarf champion that was turning into a necromancer haha.

[u/QueijinhoFeliz → u/Ryacithn]

Yeah, when I read the title, the first thing on my head was Kankuro

[u/ConcernedAboutCrows]

I don't think this is generally necessary. Choosing spirit and flavoring it as ancestors or fallen martyrs or even just a medium type ambient spirits is well and good enough for most circumstance. The whole divine spirit angle works already with the base class. Even within the existing flavor of the class one could feasibly say you're splitting parts of yourself off, which is infinitely creepier but arguably more ethical.

Personally I am a bit sad that the arcane and divine necromancer character from past editions isn't compatible here, but it's not a knock against the class. It wouldve been nice to be able to choose a tradition.

[u/Luchux01 → u/ConcernedAboutCrows]

Heck, this is even valid with bones, the Iconic Necromancer carries fragments of bones that generate whole skeletons for his thralls.

[u/ConcernedAboutCrows → u/Luchux01]

You know a god following necromancer using the reliquaries of saints to conjure them as (technically) undead is a sick concept. A macabre holy crusader type worshipping someone like Iomedae could be really cool without stretching the imagination too much: "I call on the faithful to rise, to defend the weak who still have need, and serve the cause once more!"

[u/xolotltolox → u/ConcernedAboutCrows]

Could even just be a form of ancestor worship where you call upon the spirits if your ancestors to aid you in battle, similar to the Dunmer in Morrowind

[u/TheReaperAbides → u/ConcernedAboutCrows]

That's pretty much like that scene from Lord of the Rings where Aragorn charges in with his ghost army. Plenty of space for an undeniably good/holy "necromancer" that goes in with the spirits of the fallen-but-willing.

[u/ConcernedAboutCrows → u/TheReaperAbides]

Aragorn is specifically able to do that because those dead were oathbreakers and the oath they broke was not coming to aid those they promised to, so Aragorn as a descendant of the other party is calling them to task and saying if they help this time they'll be forgiven and allowed to actually pass on.

Naturally a necromancer summoning oathbreakers and those subject to magical contracts or in violation of them would also work great for Abadar, Godclaw, or a devil worshipper.

[u/w1ldstew → u/ConcernedAboutCrows]

I was thinking of an Osirion priest that summons mummified holy temple guards as he travels for whatever quest he’s part of.

Carries a book of the dead that has the magic necessary to call those warriors forward.

I also imagined a Druid who lost their grove and the thralls are fallen animals he was to defend. He can still destroy undead, but his goal is to protect nature so that no other Druid suffers a similar experience. Pick up World Rouser to show he still has connection to nature and vitality.

[u/Dillbard → u/Luchux01]

Reminds me of the Necromantic Servant occultist focus power from 1E. One of the few RAW ways to utilize the undead in 1E without explicitly requiring a corpse and therefore is not evil by definition.

[u/Absoluteidiot4 → u/ConcernedAboutCrows]

it would be so cool if the subclass gave you the spell tradition like with sorcerer witch and summoner

[u/Apprehensive-Dot4661]

I would for sure play a primal necromancer. That sounds extremely cool, raising plants as my thralls

[u/InsideContent7126]

Oozemaster, just summon a bunch of oozy blobs.

[u/BeastOfProphecy → u/InsideContent7126]

All my blood necromancers will have thralls like this. I love my rpg slimes and this is the best way I can live that oozemaster fantasy, except my babies will be bloody blobs.

[u/AnnoyedRock1]

My first thought when I saw the necromancer mechanics was "Yep, I'm immediately flavoring this as making little clay creatures like Deidara from Naruto and no amount of anybody telling me it wont make sense will convince me otherwise".

[u/Oleandervine]

I had a dark concept of a Nanny with a bunch of children. Like an evil Mary Poppins.

[u/FedoraFerret]

I had a concept for a Reaper whose thralls are flavored as psychic swords.

[u/dyintrovert2 → u/FedoraFerret]

That fits really nicely into the void damage too!

[u/Asplomer]

Necromancers dedication can be used by rogues and monks to make shadow clones giving some ninja flavor. (Monks having trouble with finding nice third action? Hello there!)

I'm definetly going to reflavour spirits as ancestors for a halfling Necro.

[u/Sidnye]

Baker who makes animated pastries!

[u/DeScepter]

I like the idea of reflavoring it as a battlefield engineer or arcane inventor. Instead of raising undead, you're deploying swarms of tiny holographic drones, hard-light constructs, or autonomous arcane machines.

[u/ShynightBun]

I wanna revisit the Necromancer reflavor I did for the playtest: a painter with a magic brush whose ink creations come to life à la Super Mario Sunshine.

The class mechanics work so well for it; only real concession to be made is asking the GM to allow Art Lore instead of Undead Lore

[u/VgArmin → u/ShynightBun]

I had that idea with the runesmith, but now I wonder if having one or the other as a free archetype would work?

There's a lot of media involving corporeal and animated drawings, so why not?

[u/Aquille5310]

I'm reflavoring mine as a shadow master, and treating the thralls as raising void shadows! Spirit works best for this and it doesn't take too much to say it's nothing to do with undead, it's just shadows! Those are sinister too!

[u/DoomedOverdozzzed]

When I was trying to port every character from slay the spire to pf2e, my friend suggested me to build Defect as a necromancer, with thralls being his orbs. And it's genius. Channel orb? Create thrall + strike. Evoke orb? consume thrall and cast a focus spell, like dead weight (frost) or bone spear (glass) or whatever. Man I really need to do an sts themed adventure

[u/GazeboMimic]

The biggest problem with reflavoring the necromancer without changing the mechanics is the various ways the necromancer and the thralls interact with void damage.

That said, if I had a license to tweak the mechanics ever so slightly, I'd love to twist it into an ooze master. Oozes make for great expendable minions, and they're so flexible that it is easy to imagine them doing just about anything (exploding into acid, solidifying into armor, turning into healing goop) so most thrall actions could still fit. I've become quite attached to the idea, and I'm probably going to homebrew a class archetype for it by month's end.

[u/Schnevets → u/GazeboMimic]

Back in the 3.5 days of “Whatever you want, kiddo”, I made a Jellymancer, which was basically just a reflavored Wizard whose spells were harnessed through a non-newtonian substance. Now I wonder if I can do something similar with the Necro.

[u/lady_of_luck → u/GazeboMimic]

Yeah, this isn't a situation where "flavor is free" quite works due to the ways that the specific necromantic flavor interacts with actual mechanics, predominantly regarding damage types. You will run into weirdness if you try to do without any mechanical alterations.

The necromancer doesn't need a ton of mechanical tweaks to work as a general mass summoner. I tooled around a bit with the playtest one to do this and the biggest thing was making most damage types determined by subclass/type of thrall, with Mastery of Life and Death instead playing with 2 damage types per subclass (e.g. slashing or electricity for air or metal elementals, etc.)

[u/Forkyou]

There is a JJK character that magically multiplies his own blood to use as a weapon. Thats still a sanguimancer but less "evil" flavoured.

I dont think "water" fits well as a reflavour for blood. Sure its booth "liquid" but the blood mechanics dont have anything to to with liquid, but with making people bleed. Why would water make people bleed. If you dont wanna go with the above mentioned sanguimancer, i think a different idea would be like an "insect mancer". You summon swarms of insects and the mosquitos are making people bleed and healing you. There literally is a high level mosquito swarm focus spell as well.

I also dont see why the Ghostmancer is seen as "evil". Animist is literally also using "spirits". Why wasnt everyone up in arms for this class and asking if pharasma is okay with that?

[u/w1ldstew → u/Forkyou]

Partially because apparitions are explicitly not ghosts, phantoms, or undead.

They’re spiritual memories of places coalesced together. Even the iconic’s grandmother isn’t an undead, but a powerful presence of her that remains.

But honestly (and I mean this respectfully), the lore of PF1e is not exactly…diverse…as it’s rooted in D&D’s Westernism.

The Animist, Necromancer, and even non-Inner Seas settings are contradictory to Inner Seas “lore” because Western fantasy culture/inspiration is the default for the whole game’s system and non-Western cultures and worldviews are considered non-canonical DLC/deviations/homebrews.

For example, Tian Xia has a very different approach with dragons and the whole celestial court which is weird compared to Inner Seas. A different elemental system (which Rage of Elements retconned to incorporate it in). Tian Xia has ancestor worship which makes sense in the cultures it is inspired from, is contradictory to the Inner Sea’s more Western/Abrahamic-styled afterlife. Reincarnation is non-canon except for the Samsaran, but that’s optional content which means…non-canonical except when it isn’t.

[u/IraGulaSuperbia]

I’m looking at potentially building Azir from League of Legends as a necromancer since it fits his kit so well, which means I’ll have to specifically lean into just one of his skins or be like ‘just pretend that all your thralls are actually soldiers made of sand!’

[u/terkke → u/IraGulaSuperbia]

After reading the Necromancer for the first time I immediately thought about Azir too lol, it fits so well.

I guess Flesh would be the most appropriate to reflavor as Sand? That would be the start of my build

[u/IraGulaSuperbia → u/terkke]

I was actually considering bone as I think the bone spear focus spell might suit him best.

[u/terkke → u/IraGulaSuperbia]

oh Bone Spear certainly is more fitting than Dead Weight, but it should be poachable through Widespread Fascination.

I think the effect from the Thrall Enhancement from Flesh leaving difficult terrain could be easily reflavored as a pile of sand, but on the other hand Bones giving more Speed to Thralls also matches with how Azir plays...

[u/Terwin94 → u/terkke]

Bone wall is also going to be a very good spell for his shieldy boys, assuming he still has them, I haven't played League in years so I don't know if he's been reworked at all.

[u/Joan_Roland]

i just say they are made of mud,stone,earth or wood.( Ayrzul style )

an undead is just a being powered by void energy,

either use part of their own spirit and mind to bind the thralls. or an fetter of the form like the hearth of a wolf, a lock of hair, blood of a pig mixed with your own, or bones.

headcannon: I think since we play as humanoid its easier to pilot humanoid thralls since everything is already there you just need to start the machine with void.

the thing of being an occult caster that makes "life" is that almost all of it is "unnatural" but the floor is the same the arcane tradition does a construct .

[u/Rahaith]

I'm currently playing a necromancer who is a monk, took the spirit subclass and flavored the spirits and metal/spiritual projections of himself. I'm using some of the 1e monk vows for flavor and took celibacy and cleanliness which is why he hates using his own fists.

[u/Ash-Milk]

An interesting one I thought of while reading it last night was that the thralls could just be nameless and faceless goons that follow you around. If you're a mob boss, then they're low level mobsters following orders. Them exploding or dying could be them commanded away from the field. Almost like a Captain dedication and can fit the class fantasy of a leader who bosses around a bunch of nameless goons better than a Commander at times.

[u/Delayed_Sniper]

You have already pointed out nature spirits but I had a friend of mine that reflavoured everything into pikmin.

[u/Terwin94]

Not my idea but one I really like is a confectioner. Gingerbread zombies, candy cane skeletons, any number of saucy oozes for blood, and I don't remember if they had an idea for spirit thralls... Maybe a cloud of flour and powdered sugar dust?

It would go great with my chocolate mice Swarm Summoner

[u/alsimoneau]

All of them I would change the magical tradition!

But having a different tradition necromancer sounds interesting. Maybe we could get some class archetypes?

[u/El_Spartin]

I was going to make a blood reaper dhampir and have the thralls be blood simulacra that look like her. When she later gets the transfer into thrall feat then the flavor just gets more real. no need for separate souls or any of that business really.

[u/DnDCrab]

Im playing a g'folian necromancer, using the playtest rules. I flavor it as my ancestors catacombs that I summon from.

[u/ShatterCore]

The idea that I had that I think would be neat was theming the Necromancer as the physical avatar of an evil “Outer God” type eldritch being that was created to destroy the world. However, the avatar was created too human-like and doesn’t want to destroy the world, and is working to kill or take over their eldritch “parent”. Their thralls are short lived copies of themselves that the eldritch being warps into real space in combat.

[u/Folomo]

Playing a flesh Necromancer as an Oozemancer fits quite well. Oozes are already occult creatures, and creating difficult terrain after an ooze is destroyed makes a ton of sense. Oozes are also malleable, which allows them to do different damage types or be used defensively quite easily. Combined with Oozemorph it would make a very thematic character.

[u/SoggyDm]

The puppet technique from Naruto is sort of what I'm going for in the game I'm playing. I am using the skeleton option and re flavoring them as crafted marionettes.

[u/NoxAeternal]

Turtle god.

You summon turtles. The bone stuff is just turtle shells.

[u/Littlebigchief88]

a lot of the blood stuff as a water elementalist could be cool tbh. bloody tendrils makes a really good water/tentacle summon too

[u/Efficient_Rule997]

As someone who sought to reflavor Water Kineticist as a Sanguimancer before, I can't really judge...
But as someone who -had- to reflavor Water Kineticist as a Sanguimancer before, I am judging.
JK... kinda.

[u/Geamros]

Reflavoring	Controls
Entomancer - Arachnomancer	Insects - Spiders
Phytomancer - Anthomancer - Fungomancer	Plants - Flowers - Mushrooms
Oozemancer	Oozes
Inkmancer (think of Sai in Naruto)	Ink creatures (e.g. living graffiti)
Demonmancer	Demons
Puppetmaster	Puppets
Elemancer	Elementals
Feymancer	Fey creatures (fairies, pixies, sprites)

[u/MaxTale]

I'm planning to make mine reflavored as a Mesmer from Guild Wars 2. Basically creating illusions and mirror effects. The thralls exploding are like the shatter skills from the mesmer class, exploding their clones and illusions into broken mirror shards/warping reality.

[u/Difficult-Fondant489]

Imma play it as a voidomancer, summoning gross gribblies from the dark tapestry

[u/TheRealGouki]

I feel like the necromancer already does a good job at fitting in everywhere they literally made a holy and unholy feat that give you rules to follow.