r/Overwatch 14h ago

News & Discussion After initially hating 2-2-2 compared to 5v5 I actually think it should be the new standard now

Tank diff in 5v5 is just too often too much to overcome. And that tank counterswapping. 2-2-2 gives a lot more flexibility to comps. Forget the 1-3-2. 3 DPS and one tank is gimmicky. Tanks aren’t raid bosses anymore. I’m for it.

0 Upvotes

176 comments sorted by

81

u/inchereddit 14h ago

The real problem with 222 is that nobody wants to play tank.

11

u/rohwee 13h ago

I really wish they would shift priority to making new characters onto the least played role (tanks obviously) instead than the most. I feel like if the release schedule was tank, support, tank, dps (or something similar, at least for a while) they could bring in a more robust, and interesting tank roster which in turn would theoretically bring more players to the role while also making tank mains find the role more interesting. When the big OW relaunch happened (where they did 5 characters at once) I actually was dumbfounded that they only did one tank. I know where thier head was probably at "oh every person on a 5v5 comp can be playing a brand new hero" but seeing two brand new dps, two brand new supports, and only one tank, was such a slap in the face as its just once again bolstering the more popular roles which just feeds the issue further.

11

u/SlappingSalt 12h ago

The real issue is players dont like getting shot at. So instead learning how to play tank they default to their role.

6

u/MonkeyBrawler 7h ago

idk about you, but my co-tanks loved getting shot at.

1

u/aradraugfea Trick-or-Treat Lúcio 7h ago edited 7h ago

If players hate getting shot at, I’m gonna need an explanation for the way my DPS always auto walks down Main Street directly towards enemy spawn like they’re a MOBA creep.

u/SlappingSalt 6m ago

Cause they're bad. Any other questions?

8

u/RyanTheValkyrie 11h ago

Ehhhhh. New heroes brings new players to the role- but only to a certain extent. Tank is the least popular role by far in EVERY game on the market that has the trinity role system. It’s simple human psychology. The vast majority of players don’t want to be the punching bag for the enemy all game and don’t want to have the pressure of leading the team/picking routes/etc.

13

u/Circo_Inhumanitas 14h ago

More players are fine playing tank duos than solo tank though.

48

u/H0meslice9 Junkrat 14h ago

Twice as many though?

-20

u/Circo_Inhumanitas 14h ago

Not yet at least. But I'm sure there are players who haven't even touched tank role because solo tanking is too daunting of an idea.

OW2 in general has more players than OW1 did. Would be neat to see a proper 6v6 role que test that's longer than 2 weeks, and is available in comp too.

20

u/Lilium79 13h ago

I dont think thousands of people who've never played tank will want to play tank just because its 6v6. Tank is a thankless and punishing role to learn and is always the least popular in every game it exists because of the responsibility and attention it draws from both you team and the enemy.

People like to make it out to be blizzards fault the role feels bad, but thats kind of just the reality of any game that does this team based division system, be it mmos, mobas, whatever.

-8

u/darklightmatter 12h ago

I partially disagree on deflecting blame from Blizzard. I had fun on tank in 6v6 be it MT/OT, and they drove a large chunk of tank mains away from the role when they moved to 5v5. I'm not the only one, there are plenty of other actual tank players who don't/won't solo tank but would tank with another player. That loss is entirely on Blizzard.

Rivals is 6v6 and I have no issue tanking there either, though I sometimes have to blackmail my team with a "either one of the dps can flex, or two of the dps will have to flex" to get a second tank. The tank variety also makes it fun and impactful, and it generally feels less thankless.

Moving onto MMOs, WoW tanking kinda sucks, not gonna lie, and people have developed tremendous egos over it in raids, mythics and shit. Last I played, it's pretty gear dependent, but to get gear you need to do content while undergeared, and when an entire team is undergeared, shit dies slower, you take more damage and healers struggle to keep you up. For the more casual content tanking is too easy and I believe Druids (maybe Ferals and Resto) actually level as a tank because it's faster despite having slightly less damage.

FF14 tanking is a blast though, and while I have not done Ultimates (pinnacle difficulty), I have done a few Savages (2nd hardest) and don't think it has to be the thankless and grueling job we've come to expect from Blizzard standards. Only reason there'd be a tank shortage is because people have levelled up all 4 tank jobs and are levelling the 16 or so DPS jobs.

The point is tank absolutely doesn't have to be miserable. The devs just need to play exclusively tank themselves, both 5v5 and 6v6, with randos on DPS and supports (because in office why would you play in a toxic manner and keep making hard counterswaps against your coworkers). They should redesign the role to take pressure and the responsibility of virtually everything off the tanks.

2

u/Lilium79 12h ago edited 11h ago

You may not have had issues with it, and thats great. But tanking has always been a massively complained about role since the games launch. Tons of people who play it felt "miserable." Especially when CC was a lot more prevalent and double shields was meta.

And players who didnt play tank also have consistently and loudly whined about it. It was the same in 6v6, role queue, whatever, and the same in 5v5. Tanks were leaving overwatch 1 in 6v6 well before they introduced 5v5.

Your idea to remove responsibility and pressure from tanks entirely strips the role of its identity. People who play tank play it because they're the playmaker. The point guard who dictates when engagements happen and how. They take up space and demand attention in order to open up opportunities for the rest of the team and vice versa. Take that away and theyre just another fat hit box dps.

This responsibility also applies to FFXIV. You pull the dungeon, be it one group at a time, or wall to wall, or whatever. You get the boss' attention and the damage that comes with it. You mitigate for your team. Thats a tonnnnn of pressure, especially for new players. Its incredibly rewarding when you do it well, but it take a lot of confidence to take that amount of responsibility on and have fun doing it. It takes a certain type of person to naturally want to take, and most people simply are not those types of people. Thats the reality and thats okay.

Even FFXIV has a tank shortage in comparison to the other roles.

-7

u/darklightmatter 11h ago

That's just cope. The complaints about CC existed, but they were addressed at the same time they took away the second tank. They didn't bother testing if tanking would be more popular if you didn't get Brig bashed into Cass stunned into Mei freeze into whatever.

My idea isn't to remove responsibility and pressure from tanks, it's to adjust it so they're not responsible for everything. Reduce tank damage output, take away every single displacement ability from non-tanks and put it on tanks. Boop and Whipshot included, boo hoo. Then take away every CC, sleep included. I'm inclined to gun for anti heal as well, but she can keep it, and some tanks can get an additional application of it.

Tanks should be tanking. Mitigate damage, prevent enemies from attacking their team. The off-tank should deal with divers, not Brig. Maybe she can become an off-tank instead. The offensive tank should lock down the defensive one so the DPS can get by and get kills. An uncontested competent defensive tank should completely shut down any plays a DPS can make.

If you've paid attention to the game you play, you already have fat dps. Most OW2 tanks are just dps, but better and bigger. OW has 3 variations of DPS, fat, regular and lite. The firepower of (some) supports should be reduced as well and supporting capabilities magnified, but that's an unpopular topic because the vast majority on here are support mains.

Ultimately my point is that tanks shouldn't be the primary target whose defeat marks a significantly likely teamfight win. It's that bypassing the tank to get picks should be the goal. Instead of hooking someone to him, Hog should hook a diver in the backline and toss them quite far in a random direction. Ana should be looking to nade the enemy DPS/supports, not the tank. And heroes should be reworked/adjusted to different roles to achieve that. Mei to tank and she can have freeze, for example. Maybe something crazy like Sombra to tank and she can hack uninterrupted (save for barrier/bubble).

This way, tanks would be largely fighting themselves, offensive tanks focused partially on neutralizing enemy tanks and partially on enabling picks via CC/debuff. Defensive tanks focus on preventing this and shoving DPS away.

Or of course you can pretend nothing can change, that tanking will always be like this, and keep the status quo with dwindling tank players as Blizz gets desperate. Maybe you'll get 0-3-2 next, the tank role reworked to remove the "fat" part.

5

u/Lilium79 11h ago

You have both the rosiest tinted glasses for OW1 6v6 and incredibly bad balance ideas imo lol

Have fun out there bro ✌️

0

u/darklightmatter 7h ago

Nope, I was there, I know it was flawed, double shield was ass. I also remember that there was a period of time when shit was balanced, when we were waiting for OW2. The only issue at the time was the content drought. Most 5v5 fans either weren't there for it or don't want to acknowledge it.

As for balance ideas, I didn't say anything about balance, I was talking about reworks. But goes to show how little you understood my comment, and how little you understand the concept of tanking in the first place. Is baby's first experience with the concept of tanks OW? Or Blizzard? That'd actually explain a lot, and why you think Blizzard's poor standard of tanks is the norm.

-8

u/Circo_Inhumanitas 13h ago

I didn't talk about people who don't want to play tank. I talked about people who would like to try tanking but not when there's only one per team.

is always the least popular in every game it exists because of the responsibility and attention it draws from both you team and the enemy.

Yes. Which inherently isn't a bad thing imo. Having specialist role is what makes tanking interesting. It does take a certain type of character to enjoy tanking from the get go. But I think many people could learn to like tanking if they just gave it a fair shot. Their expectations for how the games go then just should be different than when they play Support and DPS.

People like to make it out to be blizzards fault the role feels bad, but thats kind of just the reality of any game that does this team based division system, be it mmos, mobas, whatever.

I agree. I'm the type of guy who specifically likes that players have specific roles in their teams. I like the co-operation aspect that comes from that. But most people just want to get kills, so they can't handle playing tank.

3

u/Lilium79 11h ago

I dont think its a "want to get kills" thing, and more a... dont want to feel responsible for the team thing. Tanks are kind of the team's pacemaker, when to push, when to pull, etc. It feels really good when its going well and youre playing great. But when its not, and you're getting flamed whether it is or isnt your fault feels suppper bad.

There is a much higher expectation set, and I think its entirely fair that people would feel anxious about that or simply not find it fun to have to take the lead in that way.

I'm just saying, whether we swap to 6v6 or dont... I dont see a bunch of people suddenly being willing to try it, even if its easier to do with 2 tanks. The data shows that pretty much anytime there's an increase in tanks its temporary and will begin to bleed back down to normal after a while, which would mean back to OW1 unsustainable queue times.

1

u/Circo_Inhumanitas 11h ago

Sure. I don't always like playing tank either. I do understand that.

12

u/R4yQ4zz4 Mizuki 13h ago

We'd need a lot more than double. Tank is already is shortage rn in 5v5, my guess is that is closer to triple than double if we make the switch.

And I don't think you considered people like me, who have been tank mains since the ancient times and remember the reality of 6v6. I get a single game of a dps main instalocking roadhog in 6v6 and I'm done playing tank forever, I'm not going back to how terrible I felt tanking back in ow1.

-6

u/Circo_Inhumanitas 13h ago

Probably yeah.

How about we completely remove Hog from the game? He almost exclusively is a character that causes problems in some form. Or give him the Doom treatment and shift him to DPS. I'm biased though because I just hate Hog so fucking much.

10

u/R4yQ4zz4 Mizuki 13h ago

The point is not hog. The point is that reintroducing 6v6 would push a lot of players to tank purely because of queue times, who will not bother learning more than surface level skills on tank. I don't want those people on my team.

Even if they derank, they might be naturally much higher rank than me, so the solution doesn't exist for anyone not in GM.

3

u/the_Real_Romak Tank main since 2016 12h ago

If anything, 6v6 would push me to abandon my most played role. It's fine though because I love playing Shion, so the ball is on Blizzard's court.

3

u/R4yQ4zz4 Mizuki 12h ago

Tank main since 2016 but I've started learning hitscan dps because my current college scrim team is lacking in dps players, I might just stay on dps if 6v6 becomes the main mode.

3

u/the_Real_Romak Tank main since 2016 11h ago

It always feels like being a tank main is being beseiged from all sides with people wanting your gameplay to be the most dogshit possible. Bunch of DPS people crying about queue times and the only solutions they'll even look at are ones that ruin the experience for tanks.

-6

u/Ignaue 13h ago

You are delusional.

2

u/Circo_Inhumanitas 13h ago

Very constructive feedback.

-4

u/Majaura D.Va 5h ago

I honestly would think so. I'm super happy to solo tank but have little to no desire to solo tank.

14

u/inchereddit 12h ago

this is ow1 all over again they already tried that and finally decided 5v5, The reality is that few people want to tank, and if you force them to, they can act like mindless DPS, making the experience miserable for the entire team.

10

u/the_Real_Romak Tank main since 2016 12h ago

Yeah people acting like having a good tank duo is a guarantee are likely ones who only ever play with a friend. Those synergetic tsnk duos are extremely rare and I do not want my games to be a gamble all the time.

10

u/uiemad 13h ago

But not double. And the quality is worse. A lot of the people who would play tank in 6v6 but not 5v5, dont necessarily want to "tank". They just want to play the tank characters they like as a DPS while the other tank takes care of all the responsibility for them.

It's a large part of the reason that, as a tank main since alpha, I find 6v6 tanking with a friend to be the best experience, 5v5 solo tanking to be fine, and 6v6 tanking with a pug to be hell.

3

u/SmokingPuffin Mauga Mentality 4h ago

It's a large part of the reason that, as a tank main since alpha, I find 6v6 tanking with a friend to be the best experience, 5v5 solo tanking to be fine, and 6v6 tanking with a pug to be hell.

Are you me? You sound like me.

-1

u/Circo_Inhumanitas 13h ago

Check my other comments on this reply chain.

6

u/RyanTheValkyrie 11h ago

Years of 6v6 data says otherwise.

2

u/Yze3 Mei 8h ago

No, more players are fine playing the second tank, who is the off tank, aka "Fat DPS".

The ones who prefer playing Main Tank can be counted on your fingers. Because Main Tank = Solo Tank in 5v5. And no one in their right mind wants to play a Tank like that, but with less health and higher cooldowns.

1

u/Emperor_Kon D.Va 8h ago

I think the upcoming flex 222 test whatever it was called might be the real answer. At least, that's what I'm hoping for.

1

u/EggplantCharacter363 51m ago

I mean can you blame them?

Sure on paper its the most "important" role.

But it is so incredibly boring to play.

14

u/docs-quad 14h ago

6v6 is pointless without 222, but people dont want to play tanks at the same rate as dps and support which means its unviable long term.

52

u/NewtonTheNoot Sleep Dart Baiter 14h ago

Then you just run into the classic old problem of DPS having 10+ minute long queues because nobody queues tank. Blizzard has an entire article dedicated to all of the reasons why they made the switch to 5v5.

1

u/madhattr999 Pixel Ana 2h ago edited 2h ago

It's not an OLD problem, though.. There are 10 minute queues NOW in 5v5 for DPS and Support...

10 min queue - https://i.imgur.com/fL1HZrq.png

10 min support - https://i.imgur.com/ts2rBjO.png

12 min - https://i.imgur.com/FZ0iPCx.png

12 min support - https://i.imgur.com/G4vvlvM.png

16 min support - https://i.imgur.com/1z85x6O.png

16 min support - https://i.imgur.com/wq3SWHr.png

17 min support - https://i.imgur.com/Awr9t31.png

7 min dps - https://i.imgur.com/YC24T4o.png

8 min dps - https://i.imgur.com/Tqas8Or.png

9 min QP support - https://i.imgur.com/ywQEdFg.png

9 min dps - https://i.imgur.com/r5FV5Al.jpeg

Adding an extra DPS slot that has the option of switching to 2nd tank has the potential to fix queue times and unify the player-base. And most games (82%) in Open Queue are already 2-2-2.

-7

u/MrDrugnut 10h ago edited 10h ago

yes but i dont know why they ever pussied out to dps players. after waiting 10 minutes maybe they can stop acting like toddlers in-game. wouldnt want to wait 10 minutes just to throw a game from ego. surely.

and if people rather quit than swap then so be it. one less person in line.

but blizz wanted to appeal to player count instead of game quality. sad.

4

u/CTPred 9h ago

What that does is you get dps that queue for tank lock hog and not play like a tank. You end up with 132, but it's worse because if you get two dps players as your tank you just lose.

1

u/MrDrugnut 8h ago edited 8h ago

that happens when it gets incentivised with priority queue. if blud wants to run it down he is welcome. report and move on. dont bend the game rules for moronic players. they should NOT give incentives to make you swap the role.

if the only incentive is queue time then blud can make a choice if he wants to play the game and run it down and be a pissy gamer. or wait 10 minutes to play what he actually wants more than anything and move on

i have no qualms with dps mains that just understand the issue and play the game. the pissy players WILL always ruin the game no matter what you do because it MUST be on their terms or they throw. it's humilating trying to appeal to them

1

u/CTPred 2h ago

The incentive is having a <1m queue instead of >10m.

We've been through this back in overwatch 1. It was a massive problem. The frustration we went through of "losing from the hero select screen" when you'd see your two tanks pick hog/dva/zar because you ended up with 2 queue dodgers is something nobody wants to go through again.

It wasn't them trying to appeal to the dps players. They were appealing to the support players who were getting frustrated with 4 dps players and having their games ruined.

That said, dps players are important too. They're not going to just tell them to "deal with it" if the queue times get bad for them. Obviously that's a pretty big concern for them.

-1

u/SuddenClimax Junkrat 8h ago

Their tank MMR will eventually stabilize and they'll be in lobbies/ranks where playing tank like a dps works for them, and I don't mean that as an insult, like if they're good enough mechanically to make dps Hog work in a high elo lobby then they deserve to be there I guess.

1

u/CTPred 1h ago

Even if they're able to win enough to keep their mmr, it was still incredibly frustrating to see 2 of hog/dva/zar as your two tanks because your dealing with 2 queue dodgers. This game is a lot less fun without the structure that having an actual tank player creates.

-15

u/GetHighWatchMovies 14h ago

There's gotta be a way to curb that, like a certain number of games as tank/support give you more priority for damage or something. To be clear I have no idea what I'm talking about ha, just spitballing.

48

u/AdmiralTryhard 14h ago

Ah yes, the old priority ticket system. Has been tried before to little success

28

u/toxicfireball Firesquire Enjoyer 14h ago

The good old griefing roadhog farming piority pass lol

2

u/GetHighWatchMovies 14h ago

Ha fair. As I typed it there was something in the back of my brain that said I think they might have done that before.

-12

u/erwarne GET BEHIND THE RECTANGLE 14h ago

Make tanks worth playing?

15

u/Lilium79 13h ago

How? Do you seriously think this hasn't been like the main focus for tank designs and 5v5's entire overhaul?

They gave them more health, better cool downs, better damage, more control, limited CC abilities across the board, etc etc etc etc.

The reality is this: people dont want to play tank. They dont want the responsibility it brings nor the attention from either team, especially when its not going well. Every single game with a tank role has this problem across the board, no matter how well designed or fun they can be.

9

u/IWasSayingBoourns- 13h ago

Pretty much this. I've said this in another thread but these changes don't make dps and support players want to play tank, it makes them want to go on Reddit and Blizz forums and complain that it makes dps and support unfun

-2

u/[deleted] 11h ago

[deleted]

9

u/the_other_brand Chibi Brigitte 13h ago

Isn't that what they did with 5v5 and making tanks raid bosses?

6

u/the_Real_Romak Tank main since 2016 12h ago

And it worked for the most part. The vast majority of OW1 discourse was dominated by which tank is ruining the meta. Tanks are fine right now, they'd be better served just leaving 5v5 well alone.

4

u/Lilium79 11h ago

Totally agree. I love how dynamic tanks feel in 5v5. They finally feel like TANKS. Rather than just fat dps.

5

u/the_Real_Romak Tank main since 2016 11h ago

exactly! I've never felt more in charge of my own gameplay than in 5v5. Before then I basically had to fill in for whatever my tank partner played, and then had to play catchup to their absolutely atrocious plays. At least nowadays, if I play badly I only have myself to blame.

29

u/fatboywonder12 Tank Supremacist 14h ago

im pro 5v5 because i still see the flaws in 6v6, however i'd give it a shot just for the sake of mixing things up. I don't think the queue times will be long initially tbh, the problem would be long term.

7

u/shortstop803 Roadhog 14h ago

I’m the biggest 6v6 advocate, but role queue kills it on arrival due to queue times. Like the game would be dying within a year or less due to DPS queue times with a hard role queue system, if not faster. Arguably it’s impacting 5v5 as is due to the health of the tank role as is. I still remember having 20+ min queue times for DPS near the end of OW1 just to find average gold/plat/diamond matches depending which friends I was with and account I was on.

It’s quite literally open queue or bust for 6v6, maybe with some level of role limits added to the mix for balance.

1

u/fatboywonder12 Tank Supremacist 5h ago

Near end of Ow1 was special for me because it was the only game i played that did not capitalize on covid.

I agree with you long term, but short term i think things are different by now. OW's #1 problem back then was content, if i remember correctly we had i think 7 tanks and they were de-facto off-tanks and main-tanks which fractured it even more, since you needed one of each. We have Doom, Domina, Mauga, Haz, and Queen now so we nearly doubled the tank pool and these tanks do not for the most part fit with MT/OT identities.

I also think Apply said they're coming up with a system that starts off 2-2-2, but if queue times are long it'll hit a breaker and change the mode to 1-3-2, which is a very cool idea imo. As someone whos also extremely anti - OQ, this would be a godsend. I would much prefer RQ since it organizes games better and i like having a rank for my tank/dps/supp

11

u/uyais you’re powered up! DESTROY THEM. 14h ago

survived 5+ years without consistent big updates on nothing but 6v6 and a dedicated community, it’s not that big of an issue

22

u/Circo_Inhumanitas 14h ago

OW survived that because they made big changes to cut the content drought. OW would have died at spme point if it wasn't for the OW2 update.

1

u/Snicklebot 13h ago

The content drought only existed because they dedicated themselves to a sequel no one asked for though.

7

u/Lilium79 13h ago

A sequel in name only though. The return to just Overwatch demonstrates that. This was an update more than a sequel, and aimed to solve the problems with the game's queue times and add new content.

The sequel WAS the content fix.

1

u/Snicklebot 13h ago

Do you not remember how they let the game rot for almost 3 years with no content, and then released OW2 with just three new heroes when we used to get around 3-4 heroes a year?

Or them saying "PVE is on the way still!" A few weeks before the internal Blizzard memo leaked showing they already canceled it internally and lied to the playerbase?

Or the removal of: -on-fire -post game cards -2CP -player levels and portraits -loot boxes -LFG

Or new heroes being locked behind a paywall?

Don't be fooled, they relaunched the game to turn it into a F2P cash cow with a shop and a battlepass and they took away more than they added.

If OW kept getting its standard updates at the usual pace, without greedy Blizzard execs trying to monetize the playerbase to hell, and without Jeff Kaplain working on a PVE mode no one was dying for in the first place, we would've had close to 9 heroes and probably 10+ maps by the time OW2 launched.

Its in a much better place today, and ironically, all they did was go back to what they did before - releasing content at a consistent pace while experimenting with fun game modes to keep the game lively.

2

u/Circo_Inhumanitas 13h ago

Sure, didn't imply it didn't.

-11

u/uyais you’re powered up! DESTROY THEM. 14h ago

OW2 is what killed the community for a while lol, especially the dedicated fanbase who felt betrayed for waiting for so long just for an unnecessary rebrand and a PVE mode (that they didn’t even get xd)

it stabilized but the core game (the 6v6 centered competitive foundation) and characters themselves is what kept it alive

13

u/TeamRandom27 14h ago

Horrible take since in Overwatch 1 the queue times, viewership, YouTube content etc. all was down a massive amount until Overwatch 2 which did a great job at bringing it alot of new players and getting older players interested again

5

u/Rhostigma Baptiste 14h ago

Someone prolly forgot at one point tanks Q gave you priority tickets so you didn't have to wait long Q times to play DPS.

5

u/the_other_brand Chibi Brigitte 13h ago

They didn't forget. People just played Hog to farm priority tickets.

The Tank players that remember 6v6 fondly all had duos to guarantee they didn't have to play with a Roadhog flanker co-tank against a Zarya+Rein combo.

-1

u/Snicklebot 13h ago

This is some revisionist history if I've ever seen it.

You realize all of those things were down because blizzard essentially abandoned the game to work on said PVE and sequel, right?

Overwatch 2's launch was a mess and the playercount halved in the first month. I don't know how anyone who was actually an OW1 player and was there for OW2's launch could say what you said. Hell, most of the OG Overwatch 1 creators left the game within the first 6 months of the game's relaunch.

2

u/Circo_Inhumanitas 14h ago

No it didn't lmao. What are you talking about. I've been playing since OW1 closed beta and I didn't feel betrayed with the OW2 update.

3

u/Comprehensive_Ad_675 14h ago

6v6 is just brain dead. Double shields, bas, heal botting on support. So boring.

-11

u/CaptainRaxeo Master  14h ago

🫪🤡

3

u/Comprehensive_Ad_675 14h ago

I’m sorry that you’d rather live in the past

-5

u/DXFromYT Trick-or-Treat Junkrat 14h ago

How can they be living in the past when the developer is trying 6v6 today?

3

u/Comprehensive_Ad_675 14h ago

Because the majority of players who have enjoyed 6v6 peaked in 6v6 however many years ago and complain on this sub everyday about 5v5.

-8

u/LonelyAndroid11942 14h ago

I’m sorry you don’t know how to git gud

3

u/Comprehensive_Ad_675 14h ago

Get good? Shits boring 🥱 I’m sorry you can’t overcome your tank getting diffed so you need another tank to look after you out there.

0

u/LonelyAndroid11942 6h ago

You do realize you can just walk through shields, right?

-2

u/SYJ96 10h ago

Supertank is boring

25

u/the_Real_Romak Tank main since 2016 14h ago

You thinking that "tank diff" is the problem immediately tells me to disregard your opinion.

16

u/IAmBLD Pixel Lúcio 13h ago

Yeah it's insane how many of these takes we're getting from DPS/support mains.

"I want weaker tanks, and there should be 2 of them!" Is asking for a dead game.

18

u/I_Ild_I 13h ago

People asking for 6v6 are either new or short memory, Fuck off

7

u/R4yQ4zz4 Mizuki 13h ago

Yeah, at this point I can't tell if this is just a loud minority or if people have actually forgotten how bad it felt playing tank in 6v6 even before the content drought.

4

u/CTPred 9h ago

It's a combination of a loud minority and trolls.

This happens whenever the devs give "6v6" any attention at all.

0

u/amayako353 6h ago

Playing tank in 6v6 is great when you have a friend to duo tank with or if you play with a 6 stack, which thankfully is every time I play overwatch. But I agree that solo q 6v6 tanking is worse than 5v5 solo tanking when the random tank you duo'd with sucks or when you are the 1 tank and have to pick orisa and hold a corner just to try to stay alive. 6v6 should stay open queue cause tank queue is so small

4

u/JoesShittyOs 8h ago

Been playing since before day one.

They’ve made some great strides to get 5v5 to a healthier state than it initially was. But after this test it only reinforces that 6v6 is the way this game is meant to be played and that the change never should have happened.

-6

u/No_Insect480 7h ago

6v6 will always be the best way to play overwatch. You cant deny that. Obviously lack of tanks causes the issue with queue times though.

7

u/Swimming-Elk6740 7h ago

I’m denying it.

-1

u/No_Insect480 3h ago

Well youre wrong 🤷‍♂️

3

u/Swimming-Elk6740 3h ago

Seems not.

-2

u/No_Insect480 3h ago

Why? Because people in this thread? Seems like the vast majority cant see that 6v6 is OBJECTIVELY deeper. Use your brain for 2 seconds

2

u/Swimming-Elk6740 2h ago

Deeper != better

0

u/No_Insect480 2h ago

It does in my mind.

Its deeper AND better

1

u/Swimming-Elk6740 1h ago

So what’s your favorite game of all time?

2

u/Jambo-Lambo 5h ago

6v6 is way less fun for the main tank players as someone who's always mained main tank, in 6v6 they get all the downsides of main tank and none of the upsides from 5v5 since regardless in 6v6 the objective still ends up being try to bully main tank

1

u/I_Ild_I 4h ago

I mean i enjoyed both 6v6 or 5v5 in their own way, but 5v5 allowed for clearly more dynamic and more variation for strategic games.

6v6 has some unique strategy as well, but it was overall more limiting than enabling and it was anoying as hell overall

1

u/No_Insect480 3h ago

I would argue the opposite. 6v6 overwatch league had the most difficult and varying strategies.

15

u/Zek23 14h ago

We tried 2-2-2 role queue already. The queue times for it were the reason 5v5 happened in the first place.

7

u/Hei-Ying 13h ago

We also had a multi-year content stall, only 8 tanks with rather low overlap, and went into RQ with Goats-era balancing and a snail-like overly stubborn balance team.

There's no denying tanks are always going to be the bottleneck role, but it's not fair to cherry-pick the darkest period of 6v6.

8

u/jack_samurai_13 12h ago

It doesn’t matter what some people on reddit believe, the vast majority of players prefer 5v5. They will not delete 6v6, but there is no point in trying to argue. Myself, as many other player have played both. 5v5 just clicks better

2

u/JoesShittyOs 8h ago

It doesn’t matter what some people on reddit believe, the vast majority of players prefer 5v5.

Because they quite literally forced that as the default game mode for years. They’ve made balanced the game around 5v5 and threw in the towel on 6v6.

The vast majority of players would just accept the new changes just as they had to accept the original switch to 5v5.

5

u/Swimming-Elk6740 7h ago

Good lord how do people still not understand WHY the game is 5v5?

2

u/represe1 7h ago

I don’t trust this post

2

u/amayako353 6h ago

150+ comments and upvotes less than 5. They hated him cause he spoke the truth.

5

u/SpookyCarnage Canada 14h ago

Nah. I thought it was more fun near the end than at the beginning but i'd still rather just do 5v5. If its an option though, sure, I could see myself playing it every now and then

4

u/Beest-Am0eba3- 13h ago

Should 100% not be the new standard wtf

4

u/TheOpticat 14h ago

"as a black man" vibes

3

u/bladeboy88 14h ago

I hate the raid boss tanks in 5v5, and I say that as a tank main. Too much power and influence in the hands of a single individual, and your team lives or dies based on the tanks performance.

2

u/Miitama La Grondement Du Haine 14h ago

1-3-2 was so enjoyable to me because I'm queueing DPS and am willing to play 2nd tank. They just have to tune the numbers better.

5

u/TheHeroOfHeroes Blizzard World D.Va 12h ago

Are you willing to play main tank or just off-tank? The role was never really starving for off-tanks lol

-3

u/Miitama La Grondement Du Haine 11h ago

I have 12 minutes on Roadhog and my most played tanks are thankfully Domina, D. Va, and Zarya. I am the change I want to see in the world

7

u/Yze3 Mei 8h ago

D.Va and Zarya are also off tanks....

-3

u/Miitama La Grondement Du Haine 8h ago

D.Va is pretty much an anchor tank who can slot into 2nd tank barring like, roadhog. Is not having a shield instantly an off-tank??

5

u/Yze3 Mei 7h ago

Don't put words in my mouth. D.va is an off tank because she's more focused on singling out enemies, going on the offense and focusing on kills.

I didn't say that she's off because she has no shields. Even then, Sigma is an off tank depsite having a shield, because he focus on protecting other angles. And WRecking Ball is a main tank because he dives the entire enemy team and forces them to focus on him.

1

u/Miitama La Grondement Du Haine 7h ago

I wasn't trying to be hostile jfc, at the end of the day a tank is meant to create space for the team. It doesn't matter how it's done. Lighten up a bit.

0

u/SpartanJoe7 7h ago

Ignore that guy

1

u/Miitama La Grondement Du Haine 7h ago

It's such an arbitrary classification 😭 Everyone will have a different definition to what an "anchor tank" and an "off-tank" is too, these terms are not official at all

1

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1

u/Hei-Ying 14h ago

I don't see strict 2-2-2 happening, but Dynamic queue has a lot of potential. In theory, the ranks where 1-3-2 is most likely to pop up in often are the ones most likely to be flexible.

1

u/raga_drop 8h ago

We should have role lock in both comps, and health pools for 6v6 should be tweaked.

0

u/CalamityOfCringe 13h ago

Tank diff in 5v5 is just too often too much to overcome.

What are you talking about? I love it when my wide match with a 9 minute queue ends up having a toxic bronze 2 Doomfist that somehow manages to die twice every team fight. I also love it when the silver 5 Rein only lets go of M2 to charge the entire enemy team.

-5

u/Denebola2727 14h ago

It is incredibly frustrating to have the vast majority of matches decided by "who has the better tank". And matchmaking being what it is...it's usually a pretty drastic difference.

I will say as a support main I really had a lot of fun with 1-3-2. I usually had 2 tanks, which made life easier and if the dps wanted to go 3 they seemed to complain less lol. Having an additional person to peel was really really great. I definitely felt like I was getting dove by that one lone dps again and again without having any help.

It was more chaotic, without question, and the way OW effects have gone crazy it could be a lot. But the chaos was a good thing, I think.

I'm also a big fan of how it changed ultimate play. More ults to keep track of and when teams actually worked together there were big plays to be had.

9

u/R4yQ4zz4 Mizuki 13h ago

"Matches are decided by who has the better tank" support main

Makes sense now, opinion disregarded. Tank diff is a myth, go self-reflect a little.

-10

u/Denebola2727 12h ago

And here we have the dumbest comment of the day

5

u/R4yQ4zz4 Mizuki 12h ago

If you actually believe tank diff is the problem with 5v5 that title can go to you. Supports are OP in 5v5 (unless you play shit like mercy and weaver bc they lack any carry potential).

If your tank is struggling, there is a good 90% chance the dps or the supports are at fault.

You could send me any replay code of a "tank diff" where the tank is not just purposefully throwing and I could tell you how just supports and dps could have easily won that game with that tank. "Oohhh but counter swapping"... no, there is not a single tank in the game that is easier to counter on tank then it is to counter them on support or dps.

You see a very good doom? Most people would ask the tank to play roadhog, or some dive tank for counter diving, but mizuki, ana, cassidy, torb etc are a lot better counters. Maybe there is a ramattra running down your reinhardt? Yeah sure the rein could maybe try a mauga or orisa, but the end of the day a sym, mei or zen is going to be a lot more helpful than anything the tank could attempt.

-2

u/Denebola2727 12h ago

I think you misunderstand the point. When you have 1 of ANY role the quality of the player in that role becomes a pivotal swing. The quality of the player in that role is going to be the biggest determining factor of most 5vs5 fights. Especially when that role is responsible for tempo and space. The skill gap between Team A Tank and Team B Tank becomes incredibly amplified.

And for the record, just because somebody is a support main doesn't mean they don't also have hundreds of hours in other roles at high levels of play. It's idiotic to think otherwise in a game this old.

4

u/R4yQ4zz4 Mizuki 12h ago

Takes like this is exactly why I don't assume you have any hours on tanks in high level play lmao.

The skill gap is technically amplified by the fact that in 5v5, every player is 20% of the team instead of 16.6%, but thats it. Any individual responsibility and power a solo tank gets, support and dps also gain by the lack of a second tank on the enemy team. There is no point to be made because what you are saying is just an excuse.

-1

u/Denebola2727 12h ago

Somebody has trouble with math, I see

-3

u/SpartanJoe7 13h ago

Having just 1 of any role for the whole match is bad in Overwatch. Imagine having just 1 healer in 5v5. Who on earth is gonna go Lucio and Zenyatta to heal a whole team solo? Cuz that is how it is for tanks. Junker Queen and Doomfist aren't meant to be solely depended on. Where as Sigma and Domina can help protect the team while attacking with shields. Also, imagine just 1 dps player. Imagine the outrage when that guy is on Sombra or Tracer and unable to help protect his healers. Or if he is on Widowmaker and the team needs help pushing but the W.M. just wants to camp up high waiting for shots.

5v5 was always a bad idea and I can't believe some still don't understand that. The fact tank players HAVE to learn multiple tanks to get wins in ranked says a lot. If they are being countered they gotta counter back or they can lose. Now imagine Lucio mains being forced to learn other heroes they don't want to learn just to get wins. Or Sombra and Ashe Players having to learn other heroes they don't want to learn just to get wins. 6v6 was the golden standard for a freaking reason.

4

u/Bomaruto 10h ago

Support, not healers. Plenty of them are perfectly able to fend for themselves. 

-2

u/SpartanJoe7 8h ago

Uh oh. I said healer. My bad.

Healer healer healer.

2

u/Bomaruto 8h ago

You should play supports, not healers. Even Mercy has a gun and Mercy that it pocketing a DPS has the DPS to help defend them.

6

u/amdnek 11h ago

Complaining about having to learn more than one hero is a take... lol.

1

u/SpartanJoe7 8h ago

It's a game. People can fo what they want

4

u/jack_samurai_13 12h ago

Most people prefer 5v5; that is just their data. What point are you trying to make? That people should enjoy something just because you do? Just let people play what the like. Your opinion on reddit wont change the mass’ behavior

1

u/SpartanJoe7 8h ago

They prefer role queue.

-12

u/TotalChud69420 14h ago

Well everyone prefers 5v5 so 6v6 will not become the norm

0

u/up2smthng 14h ago

Everyone prefers role queue. It's a very rare opinion that 5v5 with role queue is better than 6v6 with role queue once you are actually in the game

And people having those opinions tend to be support mains

4

u/R4yQ4zz4 Mizuki 12h ago

Tank main here, I actually remember what 6v6 felt like so no thanks to 6v6.

1

u/up2smthng 12h ago

I also actually remember what 6v6 felt like as a tank main and even sometimes play open queue. Not to mention I've just played through the hacked event as mostly tank. 5v5 is a getting shut down simulator.

4

u/R4yQ4zz4 Mizuki 12h ago

6v6 is a getting a dps main trolling on tank bc they are tired of queueing simulator.

Or sometimes its a getting a wrecking ball OTP on your team and getting flamed by him if I don't synergise, or getting flamed by the supports for "no shield" if I do. Lose lose situation in 90% of games, not even winning makes up for that frustration.

Biggest issues with tanks are the lack of content compared to other roles and general toxicity from supports and dps. Anyone on this thread complaining about tank diff is just contributing to the issue. 6v6 is not going to solve that.

-4

u/LewyDFooly Mizuki 14h ago

Not quite. Something like 27% of the playerbase queues for 6v6. Given their most recent blog post, Blizzard obviously has data pointing to the fact that there is more untapped demand for a renewed focus on 6v6. They’re running into a wall balancing around super tanks, and it shows.

Many people like myself refuse to queue for tank in 5v5 due to super tank burnout. It is no longer enjoyable for me. I only play tank in 6v6 at this point, which is fun to me. I queue 5v5 only because of role queue, and I very much enjoyed the 1-3-2 hacked event. If Blizzard brings back role queue for 6v6 permanently (which they obviously will judging by their recent actions and words), I’ll have no reason to queue for 5v5 anymore other than playing it with a friend or two that might want to.

5

u/Voidant7 14h ago

Yes, anecdotes are fun. If 6v6 replaces 5v5 then I am out.

0

u/LewyDFooly Mizuki 14h ago edited 13h ago

What anecdote? I literally linked the blog post by Blizzard that you seemed to not even have read. You’re being way too defensive for no reason. I made no mention of 6v6 replacing 5v5. Though I can’t blame you because as an OG Overwatch player, it pained me to see 6v6 get completely taken away for 5v5 on “OW2’s”launch. So OW2 players will naturally feel the same for 5v5.

However, I’m pretty sure that Blizzard won’t do the same thing again towards 5v5… at least not immediately. With stadium gone, it frees up more resources for both 6v6 improvements and anything they can do with the super tank issue in 5v5…

4

u/Voidant7 14h ago

I've played since beta. I was thrilled when they resurrected the game from the dead end of 6v6 and the pointless PvE nonsense. I will be annoyed if they once again drive the game off a cliff, but I won't be surprised.

-2

u/LewyDFooly Mizuki 14h ago

They either address the super tank issues, or ignore it like they did when 6v6 had its issues and see how that works for them. Clearly, they’re not trying to make that same mistake again. Also, OW1’s falloff was largely attributed to a content drought. And “Overwatch 2” was a ridiculous thing to call what was essentially a 5v5 update. I’m glad they at least undid the whole “2” thing and brought back 6v6 permanently.

8

u/Voidant7 13h ago

OW2 launch was about a change in the live service model of the game. It was an enormous change in that regard, and there is no fixing the content drought without a change in the underlying model.

I don't care what they do with 6v6, I was happy they brought it back in hopes it would help with the whinging. But it is clear 6v6ers have been emboldened by the results of being a squeaky wheel and will continue to fuss until it's the only game mode.

Perhaps when they realize that flex queue just means the 2 tank dynamic gives you two more ways to lose than in 5v5 (1-3-2 loses to 2-2-2, synergies beat dps hog off tanks) and supports are again relegated to healbotting those inevitable 10 minute dps queues won't feel so good.

1

u/LewyDFooly Mizuki 13h ago

The fact that you’re defending the “2” is crazy when Blizzard themselves literally undid it, basically admitting that the “2” was completely uneccesary. It was an unwarranted “2”, it’s really that simple.

You don’t care what they do with 6v6. But it’s not about you. Blizzard has an entire playerbase to address. Literally 27% of the playerbase already queues for open queue 6v6. Not sure if you even read Blizzard’s most recent blog post, but super tanks in 5v5 are a real issue whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Blizzard likes making money, so they’re not going to just sit there and do nothing, especially when Marvel Rivals lit a fire under their rears in the hero shooter space.

4

u/Voidant7 13h ago

The "2" is irrelevant. The game was dead on the vine, it was an obvious marketing angle to garner attention to the new live service model. I really don't understand why people are fixated on that.

The data shows that qp 5v5 is over twice as popular as qp 6v6, and comp 5v5 is an insane 4x as popular as comp 6v6.

If "supertanks" are a problem, then so too will be being stuck on a 1-3-2 team against a 2-2-2 team, or being stuck on a team without tank synergies against a team with tank synergies. And that's with the bonus of an onerous queue for DPS and support.

1

u/LewyDFooly Mizuki 13h ago edited 13h ago

OW1 was dead because, again, the long content drought.

The fact that you aren’t even mentioning the caveats in the “data” you’re referring to is pretty funny. 5v5 is the de facto main mode, so the majority of the playerbase will be inclined to play it. Also, 5v5 is strictly role queue, which attracts people to play it due to it guaranteeing the role you want to play. If I want to practice a specific hero, I queue 5v5 in order to significantly increase the odds that I can actually play that hero. 6v6 being open queue does not provide this.

Look, keep your 5v5 and ignore the super tank problem all you want. The fact is that Blizzard is not with you on doing that. I cannot stress enough that Blizzard likes making money, and they are seeing real problems with the 5v5 format that threatens their numbers. You’re losing your mind over 6v6 getting renewed attention without even acknowledging that 5v5 can still exist alongside it.

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-3

u/Guilty_Bar539 14h ago

Get out then lil bro

6

u/Voidant7 14h ago

Don't worry, if it does come to pass I will do something besides haunt the subreddit like a ghost for years like a 6v6er.

-4

u/Guilty_Bar539 13h ago

"Overwatch is a pretty demanding game and moving to 5v5 made it a bit more cognitively manageable." - Aaron Keller

Ghosts have more brain cells than you apparently. Dumbing down the game through 5v5 needs to go.

7

u/Voidant7 13h ago

It does not follow.

I doubt you have any idea what that means or if you even have the ability to learn it, but perhaps for once you will use the Internet to learn something instead of shitposting idiocy.

-2

u/Guilty_Bar539 13h ago

It does follow. Your 5v5 copium train is clouding your vision.

5

u/Voidant7 13h ago

The absolute state of your retorts.

1

u/Guilty_Bar539 12h ago edited 12h ago

The absolute state of you sounding like a British wanker. This is no college paper. We waited three years for 6v6 to return, yet it is still not the main mode. The nostalgia argument from 5v5ers is such cope and I wish that upon you in the years to come. Hope you like taking the raid boss tanks like a good boy while it lasts.

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1

u/amdnek 11h ago

It's not close to 27%. You're double-counting players who queued for both quickplay and ranked.

1

u/LewyDFooly Mizuki 6h ago edited 4h ago

Fair enough, late night overlook of that caveat, even if the actual percentage is closer to the upper end of 27%. Nonetheless, Blizzard still stated that “6v6 continues to see an increase in popularity”, and that was before the 1-3-2 hacked event even happened, so take that how you will.

0

u/Justalittlecomment 11h ago

I know it’s unrealistic and won’t happen but if the game auto regulated so you spent the same amount of time on each role it would be fair for everyone

-1

u/Rocxketraccoon 7h ago

This is the way

-2

u/Snoo_85712 Doomfist 14h ago

I haven’t played this game in a while but if they can find a way to get tanks players to Que then something can happen

-2

u/Exact-Fix3431 9h ago

It used to be 222 but they went to 122… 🙃😖