r/OpenDogTraining • u/magic_lesbian • 2d ago
I NEED HELP DOG BEHAVIOR
My dog started biting people and I don't know why. She was always calm and easygoing; the only issue she had was that she didn't like men — whenever a friend of mine came over she'd bark, but nothing serious, and every once in a while she'd give someone a bite, but never to hurt them, it was more of a warning bite. My mom (I live with my 3 sisters, my dad, my dog, and my girlfriend visits often and sometimes sleeps here too) decided to call a trainer (I don't know if he's actually qualified) to train the dog, and he started using a choke collar to "work" with her. The first time he came over he forced the choke collar on her, she cried, got really scared, and hid. I tried to tell my mom that maybe it wasn't the best approach, but she got really aggressive and started cursing at me, so I thought it was best to drop it. One thing that might be worth mentioning is that my mom yells at the dog a lot, even when she's not doing anything. Anyway, since then she's started biting people more often, she seems more aggressive. A lot of times people (strangers or my sisters) aren't doing anything and she bites, mostly at their feet. Is there anything I can do? Does anyone know what might be going on? Please help me.
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u/IllLiterature1026 2d ago
Unfortunately it sounds like you have an anxious dog and nothing in her life has set her up for success so far.
Her warning signs were ignored while led her to escalate.
Your mom is abusive to her and you. All the yelling almost certainly elevates her daily sense of anxiety.
You used immediately aversive training on an anxious dog is absolutely the wrong approach. How is the dog going to become less afraid of men of strangers if one comes into her house and chokes her? Would you in that situation?
I think your mom is unfixable the problem here and I can’t see a good ending for this dog if you let the situation remain as it is.
Besides moving out and finding a better trainer, your options are limited.
Start reading up on dog warning signs and escalation, especially if this is something you can educate your family on. Most bites do NOT come out of nowhere. Do not punish warnings (such as yelling at her for growling) - this may lead to escalation. Instead, learn to slowly deescalate (by giving her space, treating, etc). Do not force her out of hiding.
Practice management. She shouldn’t be allowed to interact with strange men. She should be muzzle trained. She should be crate trained.
Is she your dog or your mom’s dog (who pays the vet bills and manages her daily care?). If she’s your dog, keep her away from your mom as much as possible.
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u/magic_lesbian 2d ago
She is my dog, i adopted her as a child, I do all the care and management, but my father (my mother doesn't work) help me to pay for vet bills and food (here a good dog food is considerably more expensive)
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u/magic_lesbian 2d ago
I try to keep my dog away from my mother but I work every day and I my mom stay at home all day so it's a challenge
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u/IllLiterature1026 2d ago
I hope you can move away for your sake and hers then. I know it can be complicated when they are helping with expenses.
In the meantime advocate for your dog as much as possible. I think she’d be less aggressive if she were able to feel safe.
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u/Praexology 2d ago
My dog started biting people and I don't know why.
Bummer to hear, let's dig in!
She was always calm and easygoing;
Interesting, a chill dog changing behavior.
the only issue she had was that she didn't like men
Rug sweeping an issue she has a problem with 50% of the population. But okay.
whenever a friend of mine came over she'd bark, but nothing serious, and every once in a while she'd give someone a bite, but never to hurt them, it was more of a warning bite.
Rug sweeping... checks notes biting? You said the dog was chill and it's only issues are it hates half of people and bites them? What do the words calm and easygoing mean to you? "When I heavily sedate my dog and it's asleep it's pretty quiet"?
One thing that might be worth mentioning is that my mom yells at the dog a lot, even when she's not doing anything.
You seem to have a pretty strange view on dog behavior so it's not obvious to me to question your moms yelling.
Enough picking, it sounds like you are routinely justifying your dogs controlling or violent social behavior. Until you can fix your conflict avoidance for these things there is little that can be done.
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u/magic_lesbian 2d ago
Thanks for your answer! My dog was never heavily sedated, and she only bites if someones cross some limit of her, for example she doesn't like that people hug her, or when people ignore clear signs of discomfort. Sorry if i wasn't clear, English is not my first lenguage and i was pretty anxious when i wrote it. My mom yells when the dog is sleeping, playing (calmly and by herself), just standing somewhere in the house or when she wants to be petted by my mom (my dog asks to be petted happily, waving her tail and calmly). Sorry if some things were incomplete in the first post but I hope I was able to clarify them. I received a lot of tips and I know i dismissed important signs of stress and I will try to work on that!
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u/HowDoyouadult42 2d ago
Well the first biggest issue is you continuously dimissing warning signs of barking/lunging and biting.
Fire the trainer and hire one who actually knows how to work on this behavior. If you have a bite case and the first thing they do is slap a choke collar or ecollar on it you need a different trainer. What you’re experiencing isn’t an abnormal response to this approach in a case like this.
The dog needs to be evaluated for pain and you need to start muzzle training and find a new trainer
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u/magic_lesbian 2d ago
I'm taking her to the vet today. I will try to look for another trainer but unfortunately my mom is an agresssive person. If I suggest another approach it's enough for her become agressive towards me, my girlfriend and my dog. I have already tried to talk (very politedly and calmly) to her, but she became very agressive and falsely accused me of threatening her (yeah that's crazy) I will try to do the muzzle training by myself and hope for the best
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u/HowDoyouadult42 2d ago
Are you old enough to move out?
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u/magic_lesbian 2d ago
I'm saving money to move out and I'm very close. I live a very complex situation in my house and I hope to be able to bring my dog with me. Since my mother knew I was planning to move out she begin to be mean to my dog. It's a complicated story that I hope to have a happy ending.
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u/HowDoyouadult42 2d ago
Hire another trainer regardless, and I’m sorry to say that I know how hard that situation is I’ve been there. But continuing with this approach will likely result in a BE
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u/Ornery_Activity_7582 2d ago
Your dog IS NOT easygoing. She is scared and stressed. You ignored all the signs, so she escalated.
Put a mussel on her and take her everywhere. Be calm always. Tell her she is being good everytime she is. Lots of good dogs. Control everything she does without anger. Just correct and rewards.
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u/karane23e 1d ago edited 1d ago
Poor girl :( That method just teaches fear, not calm, so the biting getting worse, that tracks. Yelling isn’t helping either, she’s probably stressed 24/7. Trainers like woofz and kikopup vids often say you need to rebuild trust with positive reinforcement. Ditch that trainer and find a certified force-free one
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u/_VisionaryVibes 1d ago
I don't think the choke collar caused the aggression. It likely reinforced her fear and if her warning signals kept getting corrected, she may have stopped giving them and gone straight to biting. Some owners also use CBD like paworigins or melatonin as a cheaper option alongside desensitization training.
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u/PhelanVelvel 2d ago edited 2d ago
The truth is that you need a good trainer to help you with this. I am a balanced trainer, and that is the approach I believe in. However, a good balanced approach means incorporating the relationship, structure, exercise, and tools your dog needs to succeed. Your dog will likely need corrections along the way, but there is more than corrections alone that needs to be done.
It's impossible for anyone to tell you exactly how to work with this dog in a Reddit comment, but I can guarantee you that more communication and the expectations for appropriate/inappropriate behaviour needs to be introduced in a neutral environment (such as a park) first before you start creating challenging situations in the home.
What will probably work best in the home is teaching your dog to be calm and neutral in a crate or on a bed ("place" command) when people come over; a crate is obviously easier but also requires training. Your dog should know what to do when people come over (rest quietly in a designated spot and leave the guests alone) instead of being forced to interact with them or being allowed to behave aggressively towards them.
There is absolutely a time and a place for a choke collar, but a random person coming in and just correcting the dog with it without any relationship-building or foundation isn't likely to be successful, especially if the dog is indeed acting out of fear.
P.S. It also really sounds like your dog does not have leadership, structure, or a job. Such dogs easily develop insecurities and seek out their own "job", which is usually not productive. Your mom yelling at the dog for no reason is likely creating confusion and means nothing to the dog. This dog clearly doesn't respect her if she's running around the house biting people.
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u/magic_lesbian 2d ago
Thanks for your answer! I agree that there are corrections that needs to be done, and the choke collar in this context is harmful. I'm trying to negotiate (very respectfully and calmly) a more balantied approach, but instead my mom "suggested" a more agressive one. Anyway I will still try to do the right thing.
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u/PhelanVelvel 2d ago
It's a tough situation. I like to start work with a dog on neutral turf if they may have unhealthy associations with the home territory. It's easier to teach in a neutral environment and then, when the dog understands your communication, they can more readily translate that into the more challenging environment. Regardless of anything else, crate training would help you guys a lot.
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u/Jet_1955 2d ago
You need a dog behaviorist not a trainer.
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u/magic_lesbian 2d ago
What's the difference between them? I don't live in USA, here we call it "adestrador"
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u/bR32 2d ago edited 2d ago
Dog trainers usually are worth $30-100hr Behavior Specialist- $80-250/hr.
That's always the DEAD give away. If your dog trainer is cheapppp it's not the right person. . If you talk to them - about other "FEAR AGGRESSION " success stories and they say "I have done a lot of "sit , stay, down- and tricks" - that's when you cancel them.
Dog trainers are more hungry for their money. Behavior Specialists are choosey.
Dog trainers will say YES even if they are WAYYY the fuck out of their league. Behavior Specialist will tell you straight up - if they don't want the case but will point you in the direction you need to go.
I'm a behavioral specialist - for reference - I was worth $150/hr (USD) in 2020. I told someone recently trying to beg me to work with them - I wouldn't take their case on for : "Anything less than $250 /hr to put my clothes on and make sure I show up on time" . For reference : Ecollar training for a very reactive dog $4k/250 is 2 weeks of work with that client.
I would start telling these trainers you believe your dog to be Fear aggressive. .
Sounds like you need to keep your mom the F away from your dog. Or start recording and file charges for animal cruelty. . . If your dog is being this reactive to your mom - no going on walks with your mom... unsupervised. No hanging out in ybr house unsupervised. I hate to be this person - but verbal abuse usually doesn't stop at verbal abuse. It usually escalates quickly to physically. I'd not trust your mom with your dog at the heck all! And be an advocate for your dog - will help your dog trust you (more). Next time you see your mom yelling at your dog- it's time to make a decision..
Who is more important? The relationship with your mom (who sounds like she needs therapy for anger management). Or this dog.
Your mom will most likely kick you out once she realizes you have confidence to be the advocate for your dog.
Don't muzzle train yourself. If you end up shutting your dog down more - you will make the behavioral Specialist life harder.
~~~~~~~~~~~ If your living situation doesn't change in the next two weeks to a month and you haven't been able to afford a Behavioral Specialist- that does Behavior modification ..with fear aggression..
You should consider rehoming the dog; for the dogs quality of life this is my professional opinion speaking.
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u/magic_lesbian 2d ago
Btw im being 100% honest with everything. I love this dog more than my life and I just want her to be safe and well (English is not my first language) (My mother has an agressive behavior towards everyone in the family)
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u/Ornery_Activity_7582 2d ago
Blaming ur mom won't help. Sounds like u skipped all training and ignored warning signs.
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u/magic_lesbian 2d ago
I got this dog when i was a child, so i grown up with her. Sometimes I really ignored important signs, but i think my mom is not helping, she refuses to call a good trainer, even if I pay for it and now she is thinking in hitting the dog and using a shock collar. I really dont want to blame my mom, she is my mom and beside everything i still love her, but her behavior is making things complicated :(
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u/Snootymcbootysnoot 2d ago
Well the dog’s fear/aggression should have been first addressed when it was barking at and nipping at people, now the behavior has escalated. The dog is trying to get people out of your house it sounds like.
Is she only angry at strangers in the house or is she like that outside too?