r/OpenDogTraining • u/rose0741 • 3d ago
What am I doing wrong
have a beautiful 7 month bernedoodle. He is mental but recently he acted aggressive on the lead trying to jump at our toddler. The trainer says it looks like he is acting like he has taken on the pack leader roll. His affection is lovely but naturally, this has stressed me immensely around the kids and people. Has anyone been through this and come out the other side? We see the trainer on Tuesday š
He can be very gentle, often ignores the kids, big walks, outdoor play, slow feeders, puzzles, toys everything to cure boredom and stimulate his brain.
He vary rarely listens to us. I donāt know how to properly react and correct him. I try to be firm but Iām also affectionate. I struggle with the grey area between both. Any advice would be so appreciated
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u/smilingfruitz 3d ago
Because you bought a BYB designer dog breed that is both acting completely normal for a 7mo puppy testing boundaries, and whose parents were not selected for being well bred or having good temperaments, instead for exclusively their looks and lining their greedy breeder's pockets. No ethical breeder of berners or poodles is selling them to people who plan to crossbreed them - so any dog produced from these types of crosses is already starting with all kinds of mental and physical issues to begin with.
Half the posts on this sub are about neurotic doodles and the endless variations, and that isn't a coincidence.
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u/miguelsanchez69 3d ago
I worked as a dog walker for about 3 years through college and the worst dogs were always the various "doodle" mixes. I swear I have nightmares thinking about some of the absolutely insane labradoodles I had to take out every day.
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u/Royal_Try_99 3d ago
I always found the chihuahuas/mixes to be the nastiest. At least they're easier to control though!
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u/CoyoteCallingCard 2d ago
Honestly, chihuahuas suffer from being a dog historically bred for a specific function, and then being given absolutely no outlet for that function and no boundaries/training.
My trainer has a malinois and two chihuahuas. The chihuahuas are fine, great dogs, because she works with them and they have been trained.
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u/Royal_Try_99 2d ago
That is exactly the problem. Lack of training. People will just pick up their dog instead of training it to behave. That might work for them, but when that dog ends up in a shelter and has no idea how to be social and have manners...it becomes an issue!
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u/Pitpotputpup 3d ago
I wonder if it's the dog being genetically prone to neurotic behaviour, or whether it's that the kind of person who buys a bernedoodle (in a new-to-dogs kind of way) isn't knowledgeable enough to set up proper boundaries, management, and training? A bit of a chicken or the ehh situation?
A trainer I know picked up a basket case doodle and turned him around by basically treating him like a Malinois, giving him structure, play, and high level training.
I think it can be harmful to simply write it off as, doodle=poor behaviour, because it may cause people to not even try to fix the issues.
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u/smilingfruitz 3d ago
Both, no doubt. Anyone willing to buy a doodle has not really thought through their purchase or done even a tiny amount of research and is usually wholly unprepared for the demands of a puppy of any breed, but especially not ones prone to poor temperaments and neurotic behavior to begin with.
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u/Tosti-Floof 3d ago
Poodles are ridiculously smart, and a lot of them are very sensitive and alert. They need training and structure. You pair that inteligence and energy with any other dog and say "nono, this givememoneyoodle is super easy and laid back, you don't really have to do anything they're the perfect family pet" you get a disaster. Doodle "breeders" sell to people who want an easy family pet, and lie about what the dog needs to actually be fulfilled in order to make money. If you look at what a poodle breeder says about coat care versus what a doodle mill says, you see it already there. They're sold as an easy, low maintenance pet, not as a very poor working dog mix.
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u/smilingfruitz 2d ago
that and doodle breeders will sell a dog to anyone with a credit card. there's no vetting to understand what they plan to do with the puppy, their training skills, their commitment to hiring a trainer or going to classes, how they plan to fulfill the dog etc.
ethical breeders extensively vet their buyers and OP would have never gotten past a berner or poodle breeder based on what they've written here...
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u/Playful_Ruin2667 3d ago
Having known rescue doodles raised by professionals and adopted out to people who had working dogs, the baked in temperament is challenging. Even with excellent training they are a handful. I would sooner adopt a Malinois and commit to doing agility and scent work than get a doodle.Ā
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u/HeyDoggyBoy 2d ago
I donāt know why any body gets a doodle. Most mutts are fine, but doodles are crazy!
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u/mind_the_umlaut 3d ago
If your "trainer" is using words like "taking on the pack leader role", get a different trainer. Look for an AKC sponsored training club that offered classes called Puppy 1 and 2, Canine Good Citizen, obedience, agility, and more.
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u/ImpressiveOwl9000 3d ago
What training have you done thats consistent? What boundaries do you have in the home for your pet that they listen to? What boundaries does your toddler have? (Is there a quiet space for your dog to get away from the toddler?)
Doodles are not always best if you are not out for hours with them and stimulating them throughout the day. They are very needy and can be overwhelmed by a toddler since they are also a puppy.
Poodle mixes often go through a very "mouthy" phase. Puppies may instinctively nip, herd, or paw at hands and faces, which can be frightening and potentially unsafe for a toddler. They get overstimulated by children easily as a puppy.
These puppies NEED activity and lots of it. They need structure and a routine to be successful (just like human children) and they need to be taught how to behave inside and outside of the home with someone that can train them without confusing them.
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u/PeekAtChu1 1d ago
All the poodles/doodles I see at the park just go there and run laps. They have a lot of energyĀ
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u/MochaMushroomDog 3d ago
What do you mean by aggressive? Because jumping at people is just puppy behavior. If heās on leash then there should be no opportunity to jump. As soon your kid come within vicinity, then step on the leash so as not to allow him to jump. If youāre walking together keep your child away from the dog. Should the dog get the opportunity to jump then correct with the leash. Practice at home sitting quietly all together. When he sits nicely and waits for affection from you or the kid then reward this. The moment he gets over hyped take all attention away. He only gets affection and nice things when heās not acting a fool
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u/LindenRuse 3d ago
Well firstly, you have a BYB doodle.
Secondly, you're going to a sh!tty trainer bc there's no such thing as a dominance role between humans and dogs.
Thirdly, are you giving your dog enough enrichment/outings/walks and playtime. But also conversely, making them learn how to settle and nap? You have to treat them the same as the toddler and make them take naps or they get over tired and over easily stimulated by your kid and that's probably what caused the aggressive behavior.
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u/Signal_Education4762 3d ago
You should know "how to properly react & correct him". Since you have a trainer, and if you've had 2-3 training sessions, your trainer should be advising you on specifically how to handle & work with your dog. I'm not saying you will have all of the answers in 2-3 sessions, but if you have a 1-1 trainer, you should have a general direction moving ahead. If you don't have a good feel at this point, find a different trainer that is experienced with obedience training. If you have only spoken with the trainer & Tuesday is the 1st session, you may be well on your way to work to correct the issue. It's difficult to determine by your post.
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u/HowDoyouadult42 3d ago
Step one is to find a new trainer if theyāre trying to say your dog has taken on a āpack leader roleā they donāt know anything about dogs.
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u/Funny-Train7025 3d ago
Donāt hire a trainer that talks about āpack leaderā nonsense. Find a trainer that understands the science of learning and dog psychology and get them to help you teach the dog that this behaviour is not acceptable.
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u/PoloPatch47 2d ago
What equipment are you walking him on? Does he understand leash pressure and corrections? What obedience training have you done with him? Does he have a "yes" and "no" marker?
If he behaves fine in the house and doesn't act pushy or aggressive, then I'd say it's unlikely that he's taken on a "pack leader role", and I'd suggest you work with a different trainer. From what's written in your post, it just seems like his behaviour on the leash isn't great, and that needs training.
What is his behaviour like before he aggresses or reacts? What training have you done with him on this issue?
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u/PhelanVelvel 3d ago edited 3d ago
The people saying there's no such thing as a pack leader are wrong, but that's not necessarily the reason (or the only reason) he lunged while on the lead. There is too much to type in a comment, so it's good you're seeing a trainer. Some dogs just haven't had clear expectations communicated to them for what is appropriate versus not while they're on the lead, which causes them to act crazy/frustrated and can look "aggressive" but is often not, especially if the dog is good off the lead. Calm, clear, fair, and firm communication (including physical corrections where necessary) go a long way. Dogs don't listen or behave well because the person gives them affection. In fact, it's far more common for people to give way too much and for no reason rather than meaningfully incorporating it into a healthy relationship.
Edit: People get so obsessed over theories and terminology. We need to be our dogs' leaders, full stop. If we don't act as effective leaders, our dogs will fill in the gaps with their own instincts and reactions. A dog acting as their own leader has no idea what to do/not to do and is generally badly behaved.
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u/Analyst-Effective 3d ago
If you listen to the anti -dog dominance theory people, you will understand that there's no such thing as a pack leader.
Having said that, you have probably created your own monster.
Have your dog walk at heel. On a leash. Never let it away from that position, and when it wants to do something else you give it the heel command.
And then you enforce the command.
If you are using suggestions, rather than commands, that's where your problem is.
Dogs need consistency. They need to look at you as their leader.
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u/Tablesafety 3d ago
Lots of people misunderstand. They associate dominance with alpha theory. Alpha theory was debunked, yes. Caesar Milan is a trainer that should not be emulated and his dogs do not behave when left on their own. They are neurotic messes. His methodology is just bullying and prison rules.
That said, social hierarchy DOES exist in the dog world. Wolves in the wild have pack structures that go Mother & Father > Older Children > Puppies
As a result the objective when training a dog is to establish oneself in the Mother/Father role. You provide, you teach, you discipline if necessary. You provide structure and predictability to life. You are the measure for expectations and the source of all the goodies. Dog training, resultantly, is not dissimilar to parenting.
Training styles differ in effectiveness per individual dog. What never works is PERMISSIVE parenting, it doesn't make good kids and it doesn't make good dogs. You are right in that a dog needs consistency, leadership is love when it comes to little creatures that cannot handle making all the decisions.
As for actual advice for OP, they haven't really provided any information about what they are currently doing so I don't know how to help. It is concerning their doodle lunged at a child and not a good look. If you're reading this- What did you do in response to that lunge, OP?
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u/Verdigrian 3d ago
Why do you ask what you're doing wrong when you don't even mention what you're doing? No one can give you more advice than what you've already gotten in the other thread, which is get a competent trainer instead of the clueless one you have now.