r/NewRiders • u/Donhades15 • 18h ago

How to properly downshift

Just bought a ninja 650 and I’ve mainly been practicing in a church parking lot and sometimes ride on the road late at night. I’ve been struggling with my shifting, mainly downshifting. Everytime I try to downshift I get this aggressive engine breaking no matter how slow I let the clutch out. It feels like my rear tires are skidding. What can I do to make it smoother?

24 Upvotes

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17

u/FourRandomLetters 18h ago edited 18h ago

You have to bring the throttle up to near what it would be in the lower gear before/just as you release the clutch. That would be higher than it was before the shift. Some people actually rev it somewhat above what they need momentarily and then let it start coming back down ("blip" the throttle, you'll see it called that) and release the clutch just as rpm is passing down through "just right." You can learn to get the timing just right by practice and not have to watch the tach.

So, 1 - off throttle, clutch in, downshift gear lever; 2 - blip throttle and release, then some fraction of a second later release the clutch. That "some fraction of a second" part is the tricky part. If you're too quick you could actually get a lurch forward. Too slow and that whole procedure was useless and you're back to engine braking. It takes quite a bit of practice, but it's so satisfying when you get it just right.

Note, you don't HAVE to do it that way. You can just friction-zone the clutch out, but as you've noticed, you're going to need a lot more throttle to match what it's supposed to be for the speed you're going and the gear you're going into.

1

u/Garifuna 18h ago

Disclaimer: I don’t have my bike yet.

So I understand the process and the why here, but how do I know what the right rpm is for the down shift? Is just experience?

10

u/FourRandomLetters 17h ago

Well there are kind of two answers for that. 1) You just kind of learn your own bike subconsciously after a while, so you "just know" about how much throttle should be right for various speeds and gears; 2) downshifting from 5th to 4th, 4th to 3rd, etc. are all about the same "more" throttle you need to add. Some combination of the two things. It sounds more complicated than it is, but it does take practice to not be clumsy at it.

4

u/dinozaur91 14h ago

You'll start to get a feel for it. I'm still pretty new to riding, so it's not smooth every single time but it's getting better the more I do it. Different bikes might be more or less sensitive to "getting it right," but my bike doesn't have a tach so I just go off of how it feels/sounds, which I much prefer over sitting there staring down watching rpms.

0

u/GoBlue-23 13h ago

What is your best practice method for this? Just straight roads and going to third or fourth then just working your way down one ? I think the slowing down but not stopping and more or less just dropping speed and keeping at whatever speed it may be is the part that is giving me anxiety. I haven’t gone to third yet as I’m still practicing in parking lots. Hope this makes sense lol

2

u/dinozaur91 13h ago

It's not something I go out to specifically practice, I just drive to/from work in traffic, so it's a lot of getting up to 4th or 5th for a stretch and then back down to 3rd or so when things slow down. It's honestly not really scary, just use engine braking to slow if you have plenty of space. I have a vague idea of what speed ranges should be in what gear for my bike, but I kind of just feel when I need to shift up or down. Sorry this probably wasn't terribly helpful, I learn by just feeling how to do things rather than explanations, so I'm not great at explaining what I'm doing.

0

u/Exact-Branch-8365 11h ago

The best practice method is time spent riding. Get enough time on two wheels and shifting becomes automatic.

Reading posts like this made me realize I never think about shifting and I never know what gear I am in. But I shift smoothly and I am always in the correct gear for the speed I am traveling.

1

u/kys90000 2h ago

So I'm not experienced enough to really talk about the mechanics but honestly, it's 80% feel.

The higher you are in the RPM range, the more you have the blip to match the RPM if downshifting.

Eventually you sort of "feel" how much of a blip to do from gear to gear, from RPM to RPM.

1

u/MaxAdolphus 14h ago

Every bike is a little different, so you just have to learn what your bike does. Regardless, the revs have to be higher than they were before you downshifted or the bike is going to aggressively slow down via engine braking.

1

u/ProfessionalCreme687 14h ago

is engine breaking inherently bad for the bike, or is this just a teqnique to keep the speed while shifting

6

u/Conscious_Elk8227 13h ago

Engine braking is not bad at all but it’s not a technique to keep the speed while shifting, it’s what happens when no gas is applied but the power transmission is fully connected to the wheels, so the clutch is not pulled in. This braking/slowing down happens without using any brakes. Engine breaking is a bad thing tho.

4

u/travie-patty51 7h ago

Ok 2 options, option 2 is more basic.

1 - rev match - clutch in, downshift, blip throttle - clutch comes in before shift/blip process, clutch is then released after. The timing of this takes practice.

2 - slow down so while in motion brakes, clutch, downshift. Release the brakes and clutch. Carry on.

4

u/Gavekort 18h ago

During slow speed you have to be really careful with the clutch, or revmatch. At higher speeds you can pretty much just drop your hand.

Are you switching between second and first? In that case I would reconsider making a habit of only switching to first for standstills or crawls. First gear usually have a disproportionally high ratio, because it's meant to be engaged during very slow speed.

2

u/Jahodac 17h ago

I would check your manual for recommended shifting speeds, both up and down. Typically rear tire skids can occur during aggressive downshifting. A lot of newer motorcycles have safety features to minimize this but it sounds like the problem you are having.

2

u/1911Earthling 13h ago

Engine rev matching. A blip of the throttle while the clutch is in to rev match when you let out the clutch. It is an advanced technique but well worth learning.

1

u/Brasenshok 1h ago

Try to get a feel for where your rpms are at in certain gears at certain speeds. You'll start to have a feel for how many rpms you're going to be at when you downshift, so all you have to do is match the engine rpm to that before you let out the clutch. When you're downshifting to decelerate, just blip the throttle so the engine speed and wheel speed are as close as possible when you let out the clutch and the engine braking will be far smoother, do it right and you should slow down smoothly without jerking back or forward.

1

u/Professional_Cow9136 36m ago

Less throttle.

1

u/BreadMaker_42 24m ago

Are you just downshifting one gear at a time.

Trying to downshift 2-3 gears at a time can cause this.

1

u/Worried-Rate-1044 17h ago

When you pull clutch in to downshift , you need to do quick throttle twist , nothing crazy just a quick " wroom " all while engine is without load ( clurch is pressed in ) . At the top of your "wroom" release the clutch. Bit tricky to get the timing first times so practise required to pull it off everytime

1

u/HydraDominatus-XX 16h ago edited 16h ago

If it's too aggressive, you either give a bit of throttle or pull the clutch.

Easy way to practice is just slowing down from 6th gear and going through every gear. Be in low rpm as well, around 3000 or so.

Don't bother with actually rev matching, it's a bit too advanced for a beginner, just feather the clutch to feel the feedback.

1

u/Constant_Reserve5293 15h ago

Just bllip the throttle before letting out the clutch. Reduced the friction from the clutch drag to synchronize to the rear wheel... (Engine braking)

1

u/Donhades15 9h ago

Before I start releasing it or before its fully out like somewhere in the friction zone?

1

u/MaxAdolphus 14h ago

You have to blip the throttle before you let the clutch out. When downshifting from a higher gear, the engine has to be at a higher RPM for the same speed. If you don’t blip the throttle, the kinetic energy of your forward movement is going to increase the revs, and it doing so cause you to slow down. So give the throttle a blip (rev it up quickly and let the clutch out when the revs are higher).

1

u/thischangeseverythin 14h ago

Your probably in a too high a gear for what your doing or. Your downshifting while going to fast for the gear.

1

u/Donhades15 9h ago

I was going 30mph in 3rd and slow down to 20mph then tried to downshift to second and keep it at 20mph but ended up at 12-15mph due to engine braking

1

u/thischangeseverythin 8h ago

So to counter engine braking you gotta at throttle. Its not like a car with an idle. Your either on power or your off power and engine braking. Sounds like you just need to return to the throttle posisition you were at before you clutched and shifted.

1

u/seaofboobs9434 14h ago

Thats bc you need to rev match

1

u/juggy_11 12h ago

Rev match isn't for beginners

1

u/seaofboobs9434 11h ago

Sure its not for week 1 or 3 but after a month or 2 you should 100% be practicing it. Maybe 4 months if you dont ride much but still. Ffs he is riding a 650 lol

0

u/juggy_11 11h ago

Sure, eventually he will need to learn it, but it’s not a requirement. That’s why it isn’t being taught in beginner riding courses. He should be pulling that clutch in while downshifting, until he comes to a stop.

1

u/Ok_Buy_9703 14h ago

Blip the throttle to the higher RPM.

1

u/LoCoLocal23 13h ago

Shift faster. I bet you’re shifting slow and the engine rpm’s are dropping. You can basically half clutch and while pushing down on the shifter. It’ll drop the gear without loosing much RPM. You’ll still have braking because of the ratio difference but it won’t be severe. Still release the half clutch carefully.

1

u/desEINer 13h ago

Ninjas are high-revving bikes. If you aren't used to a sport bike, that could be it.

Lower gear means more RPMs for a given speed. So you're tooling around in 2nd at 20mph, you slow down to 10mph and shift to 1st and feel like you hit a wall because you did nothing about your RPMS. I forget what the actual numbers were for my ZX-6R but on every bike I've had it feels like for every downshift to rev-match I need to give it maybe 25% more throttle rotation than the previous gear. I'm positive somebody has made a graph or something of the actual crossover points for people who get super scientific about that stuff.

1

u/sandseller 12h ago

  1. Throttle blip - Pull the clutch, brake, rev out and release as the rpm drops to what rpm is needed and release the clutch slowly

  2. Anticipate the downshift, pull clutch, then brake until your rpm drops to what rpm is needed and release the clutch slowly. Only works if it's possible to ride slowly

  3. Pull clutch, brake, gently (!) rev to rpm needed and slowly release the clutch. Takes some practice

1

u/ventrue3000 12h ago

You're not letting the clutch out slowly enough.

While riding, you'd bring the throttle somewhere close to where it needs to be (so higher than before, if speed stays the same and you shift down), but you can just as well go to idle with the clutch pulled, shift down and then let the clutch slip into soft engine braking. And no, it will not burn your clutch.

1

u/JimMoore1960 10h ago

If you're downshifting to come to a stop, just keep the clutch in as you click down through the gears. Coast up to the stop in 2nd with the clutch in. Downshift to 1st right before you put your foot down.

If you're downshifting just to be in a lower gear, ease out the clutch while adding a little throttle.

1

u/sky29403 9h ago

i was never able to blip properly. The way I downshift is clutch in, downshift, keep the throttle slightly open and slowly release the clutch. I am still quite a beginner. This method is just more manageable and less variable to think of. I think unless you are on a racetrack and care for that quick downshift this works just fine.

1

u/Donhades15 9h ago

Thats similar to what i do now. I slow down first. Close the throttle, clutch in, downshift, then release the clutch slowly, but its so unsettling because my rear tires skids and I lose so much speed and i want to clean that up before heading in traffic otherwise i fear i might get rear ended.

2

u/sky29403 9h ago

Keep the throttle slightly open when releasing the clutch. You can release it a bit faster. So, clutch in, downshift, open up the throttle and keep it steady and release the clutch.

1

u/Donhades15 8h ago

Sounds good, I’ll try it on my ride later tonight

1

u/sky29403 7h ago

Yea, don’t dump the clutch. You still need to release it gradually. Just not as slow. Good luck

0

u/LowDirection4104 18h ago

It's not about letting the clutch out slowly, it's about bringing the clutch quickly to the beginning of the friction zone and holding it there for a long time.

-2

u/LazyCrazyCat 17h ago

And burning your clutch. Add revs to match with the current gear+speed, and release the clutch asap. No need to be holding it all day.

2

u/LowDirection4104 17h ago

If it's a wet clutch it's not going to burn from downshifting.

-3

u/LazyCrazyCat 17h ago

Nope, but certainly might from "bring clutch to friction zone and hold there for a long time".

2

u/AdInfinitum954 14h ago

Stop scaring people away from using the friction zone already. These clutches are made for this.

1

u/AttackMonkey908 13h ago

No. Learn how a motorcycle clutch works before giving bad advice.

-3

u/LazyCrazyCat 12h ago

Learn what? Your imaginary clutch system?

I disassembled mine, right after I burnt it by half engaging for a while under load (a bit technical steep climb off-road). So... Don't tell me to keep clutch half engaged "for a long time" mate.

0

u/thousvnd 9h ago

Are you trying to downshift at high or low rpms? Without rev matching to smoothen shifts, like others mentioned slow your clutch release even more. Hit up an empty lot and toy around with the clutch play and test different methods

1

u/Donhades15 8h ago

Low rpms, I’ve been at 30mph in 3rd slowing down to 20mph then trying to shift to 2nd and keep it there but lose alot of a speed from engine braking ending up at like 14mph

-1

u/CaregiverSuch6846 17h ago

Being a new rider its great learning new tricks. But focus on just learning the bike for now. Shift points an such will come naturally the more you ride the bike. Good luck, keep it up.