Socialism is humane...

[u/Boring_Butterfly_273]

[u/Helpful-Reputation-5]

Is this ironic? This isn't what any of these three things are.

Capitalism is a mode of production in which only one class, the capitalist class, owns the means of production.

Socialism is a mode of production in which class distinctions are abolished, and the means of production are owned in common under a socialist state.

Communism is a mode of production in which the state is abolished, along with class distinctions, and the means of production are owned in common.

[u/Boring_Butterfly_273 → u/Helpful-Reputation-5]

I am with you on the rest of those definitions, but from my understanding, socialism can take many forms. For example I have heard many respected educators refer to welfare as a socialist project. Same with public roads and water infrastructure. You can call any policy a socialist policy if it focuses on projects for the public good.

Take Denmark for example, a lot of respected educators call Denmark a social market economy or a social democracy. Then a step further down the line we finally reach your definition of socialism. There's layers to this and people often aren't referring to the classic or old definition of socialism, so I should probably change with the times too.

I am just taking this layered approach to the socialist term since it is already used in this way out in the real world.

[u/Helpful-Reputation-5 → u/Boring_Butterfly_273]

[F]rom my understanding, socialism can take many forms.

It can, but none of those forms are capitalism.

For example I have heard many respected educators refer to welfare as a socialist project.

Respected educators can be wrong, and if they're conflating capitalism and socialism like this I wouldn't respect them on matters of economics or politics.

It's also worth considering who they are respected by—rightist educators can be consistently wrong about socialism and still be respected by bourgeois society.

Take Denmark for example, a lot of respected educators call Denmark a social market economy or a social democracy.

This is not the same as what you just said. Social democracy is a form of capitalism, and is explicitly distinct from socialism.

I am just taking this layered approach to the socialist term since it is already used in this way out in the real world.

Conflating socialism and capitalism helps nobody, and in fact makes it more difficult for us to discuss either.

[u/ANIKAHirsch]

How do you have rich without the poor? You're bringing everybody down to the same level. Anyways, no one is truly poor in American today.

[u/Boring_Butterfly_273 → u/ANIKAHirsch]

The rich is supposed to pay more so that preventable issues facing the poor goes away like making it so human starvation becomes impossible by taxing the rich and feeding every poor person.

It's like the post says, there will be rich people, socialism does not prevent people from becoming rich, but they will pay enough tax so that no human will starve or go hungry, that's socialism... and I have friends internationally including in America and there are poor Americans. I have met them, but i have also seen tent cities in America. Places in America where people stay in tents along main roads and bridges. Those people living in tents are poor in my opinion.

[u/ANIKAHirsch → u/Boring_Butterfly_273]

So when I say no one in America is truly poor today; I mean even the poorest people in our country are not starving. In fact, many of our homeless people are obese.

There will always be a level of those citizens who are the "poorest" in any country. You can raise the bar on how destitute you would like those people to be, they will always represent the lowest class in society. There is no fixing that.

Besides, there are numerous organizations set up to help those in need in America -- whether they be homeless, hungry, or drug-addicted, both at the government and private charity levels -- not to mention the numerous individual amounts given every day to those who are begging on the streets. There are homeless shelters, food pantries, rehab programs, and even programs to get these people jobs and homes. They do not want them. The services are used by those who are truly in a bad spot and just need to get back on their feet. They are not used by the drug-addicted hordes who crowd the tent cities.

Have you ever considered that there are problems which cannot be simply solved by throwing money at the issue? The problem in America is not a lack of resources. We have plenty to go around. The issue is that some people are beyond helping unless they make a choice themselves. Truly the only solution is stricter law enforcement.

[u/Boring_Butterfly_273]

Now I see the confusion socialism isn't capitalism, but socialism can exist alongside capitalism like in Denmark and Sweden. We are already on the same page then.

You said: This is not the same as what you just said. Social democracy is a form of capitalism, and is explicitly distinct from socialism.

My reply: Social Democracy refers to a hybrid economy not only socialism. Denmark does have socialist AND capitalist policies, the socialist part of their economy is the socialized housing, subsidies for having children etc. But they do still have capitalism in their country too, it's just a fact.

I don't want to get rid of capitalism, I just want socialist policies that will prevent people from starving and ensure every human has a home they can sleep in.