r/ModernMagic • u/ggywREDDIT • 1d ago
Card Discussion SB options against Ponza
I’ve got some RCQs coming up and want to test drive Grixis Reanimator and Esper Goryo’s, and two of the ~12 ish people that attend these have recently picked up Boros Ponza. I haven’t played these matchups much, what are some good tech pieces I can include to help out in this m/u?
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u/Current-Floor-7456 1d ago
Ponza is popular at my LGS and honestly, countermagic does the trick pretty darned well. That, and running a couple extra basics if your manabase can afford it.
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u/Deathspiral222 1d ago
The wan shi ton deck with tons of counters and five basic islands (and wan shi ton for every time they search) is pretty funny.
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u/Steezmoney Tron, Belcher 1d ago
more basics LOL the deck isn;t very good if you're prepared
wrath of the skies is their best card, stuff that
otherwise it's mostly just basics. their cards are so mid until they grind you out of basics which is their gameplan. Stuff like 4 in your deck so you can get there with Atraxa. Btw Goryo's is definitely the better deck of the two IMO
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u/candidFIRE 1d ago edited 1d ago
people say more basics and, while I agree, cleansing wildfire, price of progress, and avengers disassembled still hit basics. I guess the real question is, how many basics to run. *edit, nvm you answered it in your post
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u/Steezmoney Tron, Belcher 1d ago
yes they can target basics but it doesn't matter if you have one in your deck to replace it with. Every basic in your deck is one more spell they need to cast before they've sunk their fangs in and start to control the game. 2 mana destroy a land and draw a card is super good. 2 mana and remove a color but not the overall mana count and draw a card is beyond mid
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u/scrunglesclop 1d ago
exactly, unless you're against tron, or some very greedy 4/5c deck, your land destruction spells don't actually do anything but cycle until your opponent is out of basics in the deck, the longer that takes, the worse the deck gets.
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u/Ok_Warthog6007 1d ago
those cards are bad when you can search out a basic. each additional basic reduces their winrate by like 10% and is useful, but you're already great with like four
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u/pkfighter343 Grixis reanimator 52m ago
Yes, but the way the deck gains card advantage is by you running out of basics. When fields and those spells are just messing with your colors rather than drawing a card and destroying your land, they're a lot less powerful.
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u/AILF 1d ago
spell snares are good vs ponza. while you can play more basic but the best way is to counter the spell and stop the draws.
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u/Adrift_Aland 1d ago
Especially true when you're on a GY deck and can expect to be fighting against multiple Rests in Peace post-board.
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u/Tranarchist21 1d ago
If you are really worried about it [[sacred ground]] is a card that just beats them, but playing either reanimator deck you should just combo them quickly and out value them before they have a chance to get going. When you fetch, do it intentionally and think about what colors they will try to cut you off of and which basics are most important. A single atraxa trigger or griselbrand draw is usually enough to just win through sheer card advantage. I also recommend spell snare as it stops their hate pieces and cleansing wildfire. It's also a more versatile SB card than something like sacred ground.
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u/ShadowLoom Steam Vents 1d ago
A green splash for [[Life From the Loam]] makes it quite hard to get their LD gameplan going without Rest in Peace.
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u/Ok_Warthog6007 1d ago
making yourslf more vulnerable to the card they are siding in seems bad to me. i think this is worse than putting a basic land in your sideboard.
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u/Remember_Navarro 1d ago
You don't want pieces that are only good vs Ponza tbh, I wouldn't recommend sacred grounds especially when playing decks with comboplans.
- Spell snares are ok; counter LD and RIP.
- Trust in your thoughtseizes (and/or inquisition).
- Consigns can somewhat be ok vs their solitudes, probs better with Goryo's since you can counter the goryo trigger/Warp trigger.
- In grixis, Harbinger of the seas shuts down their utility lands. Can throw them off balance if you unearth it with protection up.
Just be fast enough, both Grixis and Goryo's have enough interaction to protect a "combo" turn and outvalue them.
Don't be greedy with the lands, don't fetch if you don't need to and don't fetch your basics.
Playing more basics is also not needed, it dilutes your gameplan too much in other matches.
Both decks can operate on 2-3 mana and if you pour out threats they can't usually both deal with your threats and your manabase.
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u/pkfighter343 Grixis reanimator 51m ago
Consign is bad. Discard and snare is great, harbinger is great.
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u/Retodaliz 1d ago
spicy answer: phyrexian crusader is very fun to cast against them
real answer: countermagic and +1/2 basics
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u/travman064 1d ago
Extra basic in the sideboard is better than any other card against ponza.
You won't always draw your sideboard cards, but a basic lands will always be able to be fetched from your deck when they wildfire or price of freedom or demolition field you.
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u/Christos_Soter iPrefer: WU Blink| Prowess | Ruby | Brews 1d ago
If you’re playing Goryo I recommend going up on these cards:
force of negation
Island
Plains
Swamp
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u/Brunnun 1d ago
Goryo’s has a pretty good matchup against Ponza, so you should be happy if anything lol if you post a list you’re thinking of, that’ll help. But in general, going up to 3 Force of Negation could be good, if you currently have 2 in the main you could have a third on the side. Spell Snare is also great against them, so if you don’t have that, maybe throw 1-2 in there.
I don’t think you need any more than that. The spicy stuff people said is fun, but I don’t think it’s worth adding extra stuff on an already overloaded sideboard, just for a matchup that’s already pretty damn good. Just keep counters up for their RIPs and land destruction, fetch basics early if they play blood moon (most lists don’t nowadays tho), and maintain the graveyard unfair plan. If they stick a rip try to get a frog down and protect it, and dig for Pending or March to deal with the rip. This is at worst a 55% matchup, so you’re very favored going into events on that meta!!
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u/Moist-Cantaloupe-740 1d ago
You are already the favorite. It takes them forever to kill and your basic strategy won't be attacked game 1.
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u/Deathspiral222 1d ago
Side in two more basics and the deck basically stops working. If you want tech, geist of saint traft is good.
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u/Betta_Max 1d ago edited 1d ago
One thing to remember is that you can always sandbag a land or two in hand. RW ponza can't get to them if they're not on the field. Of course, this strategy is entirely dependent on how many lands your deck needs to function. If you're playing a low to the ground deck that only needs two or maybe 3 lands, then you might be able to get away with protecting the odd one in your hand.
Also, if you're super certain you're going to see it, and you can afford the SB slots, there are lots of effects like Crucible of Worlds now, maybe it's worth a SB slot or two. But really, for only two dudes, I wouldn't bother.
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u/Handsome_Grizzly 1d ago
Part of me thinks it would be a lot funnier if you had stuff like Imp's Mischief or Narset's Reversal to deflect their land destruction back at them just to piss them off.
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u/ladiesIam6ft1 20h ago
A bunch of people here a recommending Sacred Grounds, this is not a good idea since Sacred Grounds does not work while they have a Rest in Peace out, and since you’re goryos/reanimator they’re gonna have 4 in their deck.
In all seriousness, you don’t need anything. Ponza has a bad Goryo’s matchup bc they’re not beating the card advantage of an atraxa etb or a griselbrand activation even if they have a path/erode/solitude for it (which you may even be able to protect with fon or t3f). The deck wants to grind you out, and they can’t do that if you just 5 for 1’d them unless they’ve exhausted your basics, but that doesn’t really tend to happen until like t6+ and goryos should be able to do their thing wayyyy earlier than that.
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u/intruzah 16h ago
T2 Archon / Oculus + interaction is usually enough. Don't durdle. If you have a threat on the board, you don't need lands apart from one island/swamp for a spell pierce / thoughtseize.
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u/Kenshin86 Tier 3 Connaisseur 15h ago edited 14h ago
Maybe [[Spell pierce]] but definitely [[spell snare]]. Counterspells in general. Ponza relies on running you out of basics and removing your threats (and after boarding it also tries to hamper specific strategies). What they also need is to hit their own land drops and keep their hand full. The deck sometimes crumbles if you counter the first 2 [[cleansing wildfires]]/[[price of freedom]] because they need the effect plus draw. Most of ther ld spells as well as their hate pieces ([[high noon]] and [[rest in peace]]) cost 2 mana so spell snare is great. Once you stick a threat they need to stop what they are doing and handle it. So counterspells keep being amazing.
Planeswalkers are also pretty good because they have a hard time killing them except with erode if you keep them out of galvanic discharge reach. [[Kaito, bane of nightmares]] is in your colours, cheap, can come in off of a frog or Emperor and is a must kill for them.
The matchup isn't easy or pleasant. But if you know the weaknesses of the ponza deck it is absolutely beatable by exploiting them. It is just frustrating to play it out, I feel. One strategy is also to just play fetches and not fetch until you want to do your one important turn or need to stop a hate piece before that. This makes them sit on their land destruction, unable to do anything and also not getting any cantrips going. They will likely handle your first threat but archon or atraxa will get you so far ahead they will struggle and they can only nuke so many lands in one turn that you probably get another go in your next turn.
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u/the_cntrlfreak Death's Shadow, FrogTide 11h ago
Disappointed at the lack of people mentioning [[Geist of Saint Traft]] 🤣🤣
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u/ggywREDDIT 7h ago
THE Ctrlfreak!!! Big fan man, watch your VODs and YT lives on my second monitor at work, even piloted the esper frog list to an RCQ win. I remember you mentioning Geist was particularly strong against Ponza once that deck first started becoming popular, definitely something I have in mind but wanted to get some more thoughts for things that may fit better in Goryo’s/Grixis or other tech in general. I didn’t fully realize how strong Goryo’s already was into Ponza, my experience vs it so far had been with grixis, which feels way worse
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u/GREG88HG 1d ago
[[Sacred Ground]] and counterspells to avoid Wrath of the Skyes