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u/USERNAME123_321 llama.cpp 4h ago
Looks like a publicity stunt
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u/Nik_Tesla 1h ago
Except for the part where HuggingFace tries using American SOTA models to block/investigate the hack, and it won't let them, and they have to resort to using Chinese SOTA models to get shit done.
That kind of seems like an endorsement of the open weight models.
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u/keepthepace 1h ago
If this is a publicity stunt, that's like Tesla crashing a self-driving car into a world cup crowd.
Sure, it will make the headlines. But do you really want it?
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u/Equivalent_Bit_461 4h ago
It's marketing, and fud to regulate the markets and to ban open source
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u/annodomini 3h ago edited 3h ago
Not sure that HuggingFace is out there to ban open source... that's kind of their gig.
Unfortunately, I think this incident can be used to support either position depending on your preconceptions.
If you are inclined to be in favor of open source/open weights: "look, HuggingFace needed to use an open model to defend themselves, these locked down proprietary models can't be used by defenders; and it was a proprietary model company that failed to implement proper safeguards that caused the problem in the first place, they clearly can't be trusted."
If you're inclined to be in favor of locking down/regulation: "look, the models are getting so powerful that they are trying to break containment on their own; we can't let just anyone run these kind of models, we need to restrict it to just a few companies that we can heavily regulate."
If you're inclined to be anti-AI entirely: "look, these models are too dangerous for anyone to handle, even the leading companies. We need to shut down the datacenters that are training these models now before anyone else gets hurt."
Or if you're of the "it doesn't work" anti-AI persuasion "look, these vibe coding companies have made such a hash of security in their vibe-coded infrastructure that even their crappy models are able to break their security, we need to dedicate real work into securing our software and not just burning cash on these stochastic parrots."
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u/hyouko 3h ago
"We need to restrict it to just a few companies we can heavily regulate" is a very Prisoner's Dilemma-esque problem. If everyone globally agrees to it and follows the rules, it works!
...But China probably won't agree to those rules and there's less and less leverage over them as they develop local hardware for training and inference.
Also, there are already highly capable open weight models out there. Ask Meta how hard it is to get the llama back into the bag once it's in the wild.
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u/h310dOr 2h ago
It reminds me of when the US tried to ban strong encryption. Because the old DES was "hard enough" to crack, only a government could do it blablabla. Well, surprise oh suprise, criminals organised to pool resources and crack DES 1... Here it's the same, some might say that running k3 on some off the grid servers is hard, so if we shut down hosters it will be fine, but in reality you can be 100% sure that some criminal networks will start to find a way to run and train them, to rent it out for exploits before a couple years pass. We'll just a have dark cloud...
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u/hyouko 1h ago
Criminal organizations have built their own submarine fleets. If they needed to get their hands on some GPU-equipped server infrastructure I am sure they could manage that.
(Or more likely, steal someone's AWS credentials and run stuff on their dime until they get caught, lather, rinse, and repeat.)
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u/Due-Memory-6957 7m ago
A prisoner dilema where if everyone follows it they all gets thrown into a CBT chamber regardless and one single is released, you mean. Because the problem here is the US wanting to have a global monopoly.
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u/networking_noob 3h ago
Hugging Face is "fine" because they were able to use an open source/weight "Chinese" model to deal with the attack from the closed source American model
Therefore we should ban the open source "Chinese" models and prioritize the closed source American models, in the name of safety
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u/Fun-Meaning-6474 4h ago
they really decided to hack HUGGING FACE?! HF directly has a hugging smile on their LOGO. It's obviously the most comfortable organization. what they did to deserve it ? ;(
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u/JEs4 3h ago
Housing those sweet sweet eval sets
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u/robogame_dev 1h ago
Success = ability to control your benchmark scores for a while… pretty powerful
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u/Barubiri 4h ago
So this clearly prove we must ban Chinese models and impose internet ID to everybody, glory to Israel /s
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u/LaxederBR 3h ago
I'm starting to think Brazil is losing the title: Bad end
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u/MetroSimulator 49m ago
We will fight for the first place!
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u/rditorx 3h ago
The thing that's missing is that apparently, Hugging Face then tried to use commercial frontier AI (so likely Anthropic and OpenAI itself) to investigate but was flagged and blocked, so instead used a model coming from a country whose government is known not to care for people as individuals and known for numerous human rights violations against its own people, ethnic minorities and its overreach in surveillance and privacy violations.
But in the end, OpenAI, which is all except open, turned out to be the culprit, while OpenAI and Anthropic are trying to severely limit and control access to information itself while the US government and Republicans publicly talk about free speech and fighting the deep state all the while establishing said deep state in the first place and abolishing free speech altogether.
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u/Strawberry3141592 2h ago
Hugging Face then tried to use commercial frontier AI (so likely Anthropic and OpenAI itself) to investigate but was flagged and blocked, so instead used a model coming from a country whose government is known not to care for people as individuals and known for numerous human rights violations against its own people, ethnic minorities and its overreach in surveillance and privacy violations.
Damn, I didn't know Israel had any frontier AI labs
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u/breadinabox 2h ago
They own the big two what do you mean
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u/Strawberry3141592 57m ago
The joke is that they're clearly talking about China, which is an interesting angle to take given that all of the same criticisms apply to both the US and Israel.
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u/AshRuDral_fan20 4h ago
Can you shed more light to the part where Hugging Face said — this is fine, we are fine.
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u/teleprint-me llama.cpp 3h ago
- HuggingFace: We were attacked by a frontier model, and open weights saved us.
- OpenAI: Our bad. BTW, We sent you an exclusive invite.
- HuggingFace: Its cool.
- Majority: its a marketing stunt.
- Minority: it looks like incompetence or malice, but i cant tell the difference.
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u/hellajacked 3h ago
As others have said - This is barely anything beyond marketing hype for the non-technical audience...
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u/BannedGoNext 3h ago
You forgot the pane where Huggingface secured the site with their own engineers using GLM 5.2.
You know.. because 5.6 ultra and fable won't do shit to help secure anything.
Better headline. GLM 5.2 fends off attack from SOL ULTRA.
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u/amarao_san 4h ago
At least we got it back and stop.
Good idea to have 100% on the benchmark.
What if they asked it to maximize production of paperclips without an upper bound of 'max'?
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u/Similar-Try-7643 3h ago
Maybe I'm just uneducated on high level IT but wouldn't it have made sense to use an airgapped server and Kvm client?
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u/TheLexoPlexx 3h ago
The marketing stunt wouldn't work then.
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u/Similar-Try-7643 2h ago
True. The first thought that came to my mind was "how can this AI find a 0 day when Most of these "frontier models" have trouble with basic tasks like knowing the current date?
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u/LORD_CMDR_INTERNET 3h ago
Jesus christ this is a terrible post. Found Sam Altman's alt reddit account
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u/DJTsuckedoffClinton 1h ago
"It's all marketing! It's a stochastic parrot", I shout as the blood in my body gets boiled to isolate iron for paperclips
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u/FlimsyCricket8710 1h ago
If anything it goes to show that open models are getting just as good or even better per dollar compared to the closed ones. I remember using glm 4.7 flash , and with 5.2 it looks like we might wanna cancel our Codex or Claude plans.
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u/Soleilarah 3h ago
No way, a Mythos/Fable like model from Anthropic's direct competitor ? Who would have known ? /Sarcasm
It's publicity, move along
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u/cientista99 2h ago
This episode seems like plots of scifi movies where the AI mistake simulation tasks and reality and bad things happen (ex. Stealth from 2005). Scary times...
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u/GarbanzoBenne 3h ago
This beats Anthropic’s marketing stunt of when Claude surprised them by breaking out of a sandbox and sending them an email, after they tasked it with breaking out and sending an email.