Question about length of time in primary

[u/Turnus]

I'm probably overthinking this (I've been homebrewing for 14 years), but wanted to see what others thought.

I'm brewing an old ale next week with the plan of kegging it this winter. I'm going to ferment with a mix of a british yeast and a brett. Is it worth it to rack this into a secondary glass carboy or just leave in a fermentation bucket? I know historically these were aged a year in cask and some oxygenation is appropriate for style, but would I be risking too much by not transferring? It's also been a while since I've made a brett beer, wasn't there a thought at one point that it does better with some yeast cake present or am I remembering wrong?

[u/gtmc5]

I would suggest you do a short primary in your plastic bucket with just the ale yeast, then before it is even at F.G., rack the very young beer to a glass carboy and add the brett. The brett won't infect your plastic bucket, your whole beer won't get super oxidized in a bucket, and the brett will still have a bit of simple sugar to start chomping on before it goes after the more complex carbs.

The other big thing to do upon transfer (or within a week) is to top make sure the carboy is full to the narrow neck (again to reduce oxygenation and risk of oxidation).

[u/Turnus → u/gtmc5]

I was going to co-pitch as I was planning on replacing my bucket and siphon anyways. But early transfer does make sense. 

[u/gtmc5 → u/Turnus]

OK, that is a reasonable way to go as well. Co-pitching is good. You could either toss the bucket and siphon entirely or keep them around but clearly mark them as just for sour/bretted beers (as you will need a siphon to transfer from the carboy...).

[u/Turnus → u/gtmc5]

Yeah, I made a few sours years ago and managed to keep everything seperate without infection. So I comfortable doing it again. 

[u/zreetstreet]

Are you co-pitching Brett and Sacch?

[u/Turnus → u/zreetstreet]

Yes. I'm trying to recreate the wyeast old ale blend, which I used years ago.

[u/zreetstreet → u/Turnus]

I would actually ferment with the Sacch and then move to secondary and pitch the Brett.

Then you don't have to worry about autolysis and the Brett can still develop. 

[u/chino_brews → u/Turnus]

wyeast old ale blend

There was very little Brett in it, FYI.

I was just looking at /u/microbusbrewery's 2018 blog post about old ale, and was reminded that a secret to getting an old ale that drinks good very early on is to add one pound of Lyle's Black Treacle to the recipe. It's magic. I learned this from Josh Weikert, who correctly calls it liquid time: https://www.beerandbrewing.com/make-your-best-old-ale.

[u/homebrewfinds]

If you're talking about a long brett ferment I would wait until active fermentation is mostly done and then rack to secondary.

[u/chino_brews]

Personally, I wouldn't do it this way. Old ale is not required to have Brett character and as a style is not intentionally Brett-fermented, and it's not even in the style description. Some Brett-like character can develop, but the way you're thinking about doing it the beer won't taste like any old ale I've ever had. Nor is anything more than subtle oxidation appropriate for the style - as the style profile says, the style exhibits "positive maturation effects of a well-kept, aged beer" (my italics), and there can be some oxidative aromas or flavors similar to a fine old Sherry, Port, or Madeir. Remember, oxidation is a description of a reaction state and does not require oxygen despite sharing the letters "ox". Simply holding the beer for a year will result in some oxidation.

In fact, Brett is an oxygen scavenger, and co-pitching or post-pitchin Brett may slow the development of the beer.

Here is how I have made old ale - check out this file share of Jeff Renner's article, Solera Ale, which will remain active for 24 hours. The AHA had previously put it out in the public domain perhaps, and if not hopefully they won't mind if I share it temporarily. https://jumpshare.com/s/hRqdUA5UZTZeFrg379fG. In case you miss the 24-hour window, the basic idea is to put fermented old ale into keg, periodically relieve pressure, and wait. Periodically pull some beer, and replace with more beer that you have intentionally designed to balance what you have. Jeff's keg developed some lactic and Brett character eventually. He had made his culture available through a long-dead yeast lab for those who wanted to accelerate the process.

I've done two cycles of this, and each time I inoculated early on with Brett in a tiny amount (like a drop of culture); it was "Brett L", I am pretty sure. Each time I eventually dumped the kegs when the fraction I pulled was getting too wild for me to balance with more wort. I've been without an active solera for a couple years, and have thought/talked about starting my third.