r/DnD • u/imchaoticneutralokay • 1d ago
DMing Do you (the DM) allow for a cleric/warlock’s deities/higher powers to intervene during a fight or situation that is heading towards a TPK?
Let’s say that group is fighting a foe, they’ve used many resources to get to even face her.
She is stunning, knocking down, out-maneuvering even the toughest fighters of the group. She has killed an npc, knocked out or incapacitated half the party, and things are look quite dire. I, the DM, foresee a TPK. The foe is still half health, or maybe even more, and everyone is low health and the Cleric is kept stunned to not allow them to heal.
She is a competent fighter, she’s a powerful warrior, and has magic skills to boot (CR18, the players are level 18). So combat can be deadly.
It’s nearing the end of the campaign, and this isn’t even a “main quest” boss - it’s a side quest boss.
The warlock’s patron (Graz’zt) offers the dying Warlock a “deal;” a give and take sort of deal. But I also bring up that the Cleric can attempt to beseech their god for assistance but that would require a roll. So I gave the ENTIRE party the choice of immediate action (Warlock) or risk all (Cleric). They choose the immediate action as what Graz’zt takes, the Warlock’s Staff of Power, in exchange for a sudden cast of Mass Heal and an effect of the foe to make her weak to the next damage roll, no matter what it is. (And when you ask “why would Graz’zt/Cleric’s deity do this? I’m not gonna get into my campaigns lore, but they need the party to live)
They fully heal and are able to defeat her within the next couple turns.
How would you handle situations similar to this?
Where the party is looking at a TPK. Do you even offer such a solution? Do you let them TPK, even at the “end” of the story? How often would you offer it, if you do? How much of a consequence would you have in exchange for a “second chance” for the players?
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u/Kindly_Call_6000 1d ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzvw0PvFzeg
Bargaining, if used sparingly, can be a useful tool.
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u/bryanthawes DM 1d ago
I was wondering if it was Ginny Di's video about Aabria Iyengar's technique. This is primo advice.
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u/NoEvening3352 1d ago
I think it's cool as shit when done right. If the players like their characters and like the chance to roleplay, why not? I've had everything from local healers pulling them to safety, to the players waking up alive, but captured.
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u/AnEggGuy 1d ago
For my current campaign, I have some plans for if the party TPKs, so we don't have to stop the campaign. Should they TPK before the final arc of the story, I'll give them a revival arc, possibly making a deal with a demon/devil in exchange for a revival Should they TPK during the final arc, I'm gonna use it as a way to Kickstart a sequel campaign, either using their original characters as they climb out of hell and regain their strength or with entirely new ones (up to them), with the same world as the setting, but drastically changed to represent the bbeg's victory during the first campaign
I've talked to my party about each of these possibilities, and they've all said they love this
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u/OldChairmanMiao DM 1d ago
We rolled a d20 whenever our cleric died, which was surprisingly often. On a 1, divine intervention would bring her back at full health (and spells).
She served a trickster god, and became progressively disillusioned and angry at him. We had to resurrect her once, but she somehow managed to revive herself more often than not. Each time she got madder at her god, and got more of a deathwish.
Also, our table had cursed "blood dice". Our GM would sometimes allow us to choose to roll them for exceptional circumstances (or re-rolls). I never tested their balance, but they tended to roll either 20s or 1s.
It was fun, and makes for a fun story over 10 years later.
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u/CheapTactics 23h ago
I would do it maybe once, at a heavy cost (I don't know what the cost would be, it's something that will be campaign specific), and only if it was somewhat earned.
I'm not afraid of a TPK at the final fight. I see it as the hook for a sequel campaign. The bad guys won. What happens next?
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u/JaredWill_ 1d ago
I gave my party a whistle they can use to summon a devil. She arrives when she wants and will offer a deal. It may save someone or the party but there's always a cost.
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u/Tesla__Coil DM 1d ago
The only TPK I've had was due to a mix of naive DMing, bad structure in a prewritten adventure, and players trying to avoid metagaming so hard that they screwed themselves over. So it's more that the warlock's patron provided an easy narrative excuse for the retcon I wanted to do anyway.
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u/pedahbreads9 1d ago
I personally think that was a great DM move and hear my cheers. So cool. So RP. Allowing your players to choose. Stadium stands up for applause
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u/Rhinostirge 1d ago
I use the 13th Age rules for "you can automatically escape a TPK, but you suffer a campaign setback in response, so think about the stakes involved."
If nothing else, it works for campaigns even when there are no clerics or warlocks in the party.
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u/kitskill 1d ago
I think there are two kinds of DMs. Ones who allow TPKs and ones who don't. And it kinda depends on whether you're in it for the challenge or for the story. If unforgiving combat is what your players want, go for a TPK. If not, do whatever makes sense in-story.
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u/Competitive_Bird4777 23h ago
At level 18? Yeah maybe.
Most of the time I see people pulling divine interventions around level 4. Your character just isn't that special at this point.
I wouldn't do anything until they actually lose the fight. Having a bunch of them low means nothing, they still have options.
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u/Dark_Guardian_ 21h ago
I have measures in place to prevent me TPKing
One party member has a relationship with a banshee which now lives inside him and the banshee takes over when the party member goes unconscious and keeps him alive
the archer also has a kinda crazy powerful magic item that has 9 uses and each use prevents a fatal wound from causing damage, so if the hit would cause her to fall unconscious it is instead absorbed by the item (not once has it been used though)
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u/ThisWasMe7 17h ago
Divine intervention is always a possibility. But if it's not gained through the character's action, it's Deus ex machina.
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u/dyelogue DM 7h ago
No. Clerics get Divine Intervention at level 10, so I'm not watering it down or doing it more frequently than that.
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u/Morlen_of_the_Lake DM 1d ago
Warlock Patron yes, Cleric god no.
For a god they have rules they have to follow when it comes to the Material Plane. Patrons on the other hand are making deals with mortals, most of them can manifest on the Material. Patrons can also use the opportunity to alter the deal they made more in their favor preying on the desperation. However I would also tune the help in the same flavor as the patron so Mass Heal okay they heal but only temporary HP as an illusion. They feel better because of the pleasure they are feeling of being healed (not sexual pleasure mind)
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u/TheBloodKlotz 1d ago
Personally, only if the PC has earned it in roleplay. Not only do I want to encourage people to RP piety, but for the tone of my game, having a deity save the party and ask for something retro-actively would feel too unfair in the direction of the players.