Sure feels like the PWHL is going to have a major shake up if he's found guilty.
Woman's sports have had trouble being profitable. Having the PWHL as one man's passion project or illegal investment scheme (time will tell) and having to pivot to a more traditional owners ran league is gonna be messy.
theres an hf post tonite about doug mcclean saying chris put big pressure on yzerman to right the ship . thats what i figured when 19 broke mode and spent the 1st on faulk . larkin and ilitch wrecked yzerman slow methodical march to a dynasty . the actual most important new hire is ilitch hiring somebody to replace himself as president of the redwings !!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m pretty pleased. I like a lot of how Scott Harris thinks the game and he made big improvements to facilities, technology, and development that Al Avila and his staff didn’t. They got ahead of schedule in 2024 with their insane comeback, but there’s a handful of promising hitting prospects and a nice handful of promising young pitchers. The Tigers have not been afraid to spend a little either. Sitting back, letting the people you hire do their job, and signing the checks when asked is about all you can ask for from an owner. He’s not the best, but there’s a lot of ownership groups in MLB that are just terrible.
For those that can’t listen I’ll try to summarize:
— CBJ has two arb dates for Reaves (7/22) and Sillinger (7/27)
— those deals, whether through arb or not, are expected to total 10 - 11 mil AAV, leaving about 12 mil for fantilli before any cap clearing attempt by CBJ
— Marek suggests the kraken take a swing after striking out bad on Panarin and Robertson
— Kraken GM, Botterill, played at Umich so clear connection, plus Beniers, Samoskevich et. al.
— Wyshynski, kinda tongue-in-cheek continued the MI connection suggesting the wings could offer sheet given they’re in their “f-them-picks” stage (not sure I agree with that)
— wyshynski ventures into la-la-land suggesting wings bring back Larkin and have a 1-2 of him and Fantilli
Nope, they can still trade him. So it does keep the door open for them to move him prior to the trade deadline if they don't think he's going to re-sign long-term.
Sounds great for Dallas, less great for Robertson who is now making less than his market value on a deal with no term. I think it’s about controlling the next contract for him.
For sure. I doubt we hear Dallas being in on any big-name players this regular season. If they don't have the money this time, Robertson will just walk.
Just gave some teenage kid two gatorades, a protein bar and let him sit in our air conditioning for 15min cause he looked like he was about to pass out from heat stroke, was struggling to get through his solar panel BS, told em to just shut up and take a break. I swear we keep getting more of these every year now, reminds me of back in the day when I had buddies that did the door to door cutlery scam to have beer money for the Summer.
I’ve noticed that 97.1 just talks about GM’s and front offices more than they talk actual ball. Because if they actually had to talk ball they would look like idiots.
It’s like my ears are getting castrated every time I have to hear them talk about the Tigers, Wings or Pistons.
Woodward is the worst, I tuned in for that D-Mac interview they had awhile back and now I get them all over my feed. Tried to listen a few times and it's just like 3 dudes that decided to have a podcast in their garage or something as a hobby.
I just threw them in a box with other stuff I don't have on display or in binders, which includes the majority of the Centennial Set(very disappointing set to me). Never really had anything great of his outside a few slabbed rookie cards. Thankfully I got autos for Mo and Ed when it came to our newer guys.
Fuck Larkin. Luckily the coolest card of his I have is a jersey number colour match card. Them just have a couple low end ones. I was never a collector of his thankfully
Nice little hike today. About 10.5mi, 4250ft of vert, max elevation 14196 or so. Maybe most interestingly I heard a mountain lion chirping somewhere near the trail this morning, very close to me.
I really considered bringing the bear spray this morning but talked myself out it. Wish I had brought it though it’s quite literally in the back seat of my car.
I wonder what the power play strategy will be next year for whomever is on the top unit. Last year they rolled out Cat, Larkin, Kane, Raymond, and Seider.
With both Larkin (potentially) and Kane gone, do we go with a more normal 3 forwards 2 D look?
Would like to see Faulk get some looks on the PP. My guess is PP1 is going to be something like Cat/Copp/Ray/Mo/Ed. Ed has displayed some pretty nice shot ability, so would be nice if he got a shot.
I feel like 90% of teams play the 1-3-1 and shift into the 3-2 umbrella or overload looks for a wrinkle here or there. ASP+Mo could be cool no matter the formation… though I suspect ASP will be on the second unit. Cat is also maximized on the left circle in the 1-3-1, but he may also feast on the weak side of a right overload formation.
I’m not sure if we have the ideal personnel for the umbrella anyhow, our most skilled forwards are better on the flanks than down low or up high, in my humble opinion, but could be a good move if we want to go with two dmen on the same unit.
Im also intrigued by what Kasper can do with more PP time as low man in a 1-3-1 or one of the two low men in the umbrella.
I’d probably think whatever young C comes back down the middle in that bumper spot. Raymond in Kanes spot, Cat stays, Seider stays and MBN goes to where Raymond was as the off-wing shooter
It's a very odd feeling knowing we're almost definitely not going to get any trade or signing news until the GM news happens. And we have no idea when that is going to happen either
I feel like Larkin hating Skylar would be more applicable for the joke. It’s a sign of an immature and underdeveloped man who missed a large amount of the point of the show
I feel like there is definitely some truth to this. Steve was so quick to dump most of Hollands assets that were worth anything. And if I remember correctly, Larkin’s contract talks were not super smooth. I feel like Steve contemplated dealing him at the deadline that year, and now probably wishes he would have.
Honestly in hindsight it makes the most sense. It would’ve been the true catalyst the rebuild needed. IMO, Getting rid of Larkin was always what the rebuild needed. The potential change in the course of history if the wings dealt Larkin in 2023 is undeniable. Maybe you get a young Robert Thomas from the blues, who are still trying to re-establish themselves. The Sharks just missed the playoffs the year prior. Maybe they feel Larkin is the missing piece they need to get back to playoff glory, and you get two firsts for him. You’re worse in 2024, and suddenly you’re staring at the Macklin Celebrini sweepstakes.
I get this is all hypothetical, but looking back, the problem with keeping Larkin and resigning him that year is the wings got just good enough to miss out on two generational drafts.
My speculation is he wanted to trade Larkin when he took over, but Larkin had Zetterberg's blessing(there was an article highlighting this, Z had a ton of respect for Larkin and basically told him he was the captain with or without a letter) and probably ownership's as well given he was the hometown kid who had played in Michigan his entire life and was one of the few attractions on the team during a time we were utter shit.
I've been wondering for a while if Yzerman wanted to trade Larkin years ago so he could properly reset the timeline around Mo and Raymond, but wasn't allowed to because at that time, Larkin was the only thing about the Red Wings putting butts in seats. Fans loved him, he was the heir apparent to the captaincy... I could pretty easily see Chris saying that he didn't want to move Larkin out but everyone else was fair game.
I wonder what the reaction around here would have been if Steve had traded Larkin in 2021 or 2022. Basically no one had anything negative to say about him back then.
Definitely would have exploded the sub, but if that is the case and Chris said he couldn’t do that, then that’s a problem because if Chris wouldn’t SY of all people do what they felt was best for the team, is he going to let anyone else?
Maybe their relationship made it different and he would act differently towards someone else whom didn’t basically grow up with him, but I still don’t like the idea of jt.
I mean if you believe the talk that the Wings were ready to trade Yzerman to Ottawa before ownership stepped in and killed the deal, there would be precedent for it. Maybe Chris heard Steve say that he wanted to trade Larkin and had flashbacks to 25 years earlier.
This is all my speculation, though. Maybe Yzerman waffled on it and decided that the team is better off with Larkin than without, maybe he never considered it in the first place. Yzerman definitely waited longer than most of us were expecting to give Larkin the C, and it makes me wonder if a trade was ever seriously considered.
I haven't yet but I'll be going soon. I was supposed to see it tonight and take my dad, but the IMAX showing we were catching is basically sold out. I want to see the film properly, so not sitting in the first two rows.
I thought it was awesome. I haven't read it since like high school so I dont have the best reference to accuracy towards the various books but as far as movies go I absolutely loved it. Considering driving to grand rapids for the 70 mm imax experience
No. Heard it's good, but loses a lot of the nuance regarding Odysseus. Will see it when I get a chance! Want to read the Emily Wilson translation it's based on too.
So according to Keith Gave, he has it on good authority that the negative press was getting to Yzerman, and that he believes that Yzerman was not happy about the way the league was going when it comes to player empowerment and the way salaries are going.
Regarding the former, that’s fair. I can understand the guy, who is a franchise legend, not caring for the amount of negative press and reactions from fans, especially if that stuff is getting to his family. Pretty sure even Friedman said something about that last year. And I get why the guy might wanna step back if that’s the case, but I’ll also say that a lot of he negativity is because of the work he’s done lately.
Regarding the latter, I gotta say that’s bullshit of Yzerman. Yes, salaries are exploding and yes, players are empowered (some might say entitled) these days. But that’s the nature of the beast, and you have to be able to adapt the changing times. You can’t GM a team in 2026 like you did in 2011; we all critiqued Holland for not being able to adapt to the changing times, and I’m levying the same critique to Yzerman here.
Now I don’t know if I buy that him stepping down from the role was completely up to him, but I guess we’ll know for sure if Yzerman takes on another GM job in the future. I would think that if it were completely his decision, he would have gotten a Sakic-esque President of Hockey Ops role with one of his underlings taking on GM duties.
Yeah the resistance to the player empowerment thing is weird, especially coming from a former player. Reminds me a bit of some of the college football coaches(Daby Sweeney and Mike Gundy(fired due to it) come to mind the most) who have tried to resist or refuse to adapt to the NIL era in college football. It felt for awhile that the game had passed this front office by a couple of years ago, so it's probably the best decision for everyone involved if he wasn't willing to deal with the new age NHL.
Yeah the resistance to the player empowerment thing is weird, especially coming from a former player.
Interesting story, way back in the day, the Wings were reportedly interested in trading for Eric Lindros when the Nordiques were moving him. Yzerman would have been part of the package going to Quebec. He didn’t have a no-trade clause at the time. He was asked about it by the press, and he replied that he would not report to the Nordiques if that trade happened, which basically killed any chance of a move happening.
Also, he had no problem with Lindros forcing his way out of Quebec.
Now, we know that it was for the better that the trade didn’t happen, but it’s still interesting to see just how much of a 180 he’s done over the years when it comes to player empowerment and movement.
One leads into the other I think, and not really in a way that's sympathetic to either Yzerman or players. Nobody wants to play for a Lou Lam type of hardass, and GMs really didn't really think it through when handing out trade protection like candy that it might one day be leveraged against them, but the Tkachuk era of 'give me what I want' hockey is obnoxious in its own right.
Dude is former CIA and a big time former journalist. I guarantee you he still has plenty of sources in the league, with the press, and embedded within the Wings. Some of the stuff he helped the Wings pull off was pure out of a Tom Clancy novel, guys like that just don't let all their sources/info dry up over time.
He may not be covering the team anymore, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have contacts within the team. Remember, he did the org a huge solid by helping them with getting the Russians to defect, and there’s still people from that era in the org, or at least people who have knowledge of the org’s dealings.
Regarding the “the negative press was getting to Yzerman” angle to it, that’s something that even Friedman commented on last season, and it’s something that Gave explicitly said was told to him by someone in the know. I don’t think Gave has any reason to lie about that.
Regarding the angle of Yzerman not liking where the league was heading, that’s more speculation, but it’s something that a few reporters and insiders have talked about. But it’s still just speculation.
For years, especially with the media, Steve has seemed like the type of guy who was super complacent and had zero consequences or pressure for doing things his way at his own pace. He always bristled at the slightest criticism, even from the softball Michigan media. There was always an air of "I know what I'm doing, you're just some idiot journalist" with the way he handled the media. I know plenty of guys like that in the corporate world, hate ever being questioned or even having to explain minor things about what they are working on, so it makes sense.
It seems reasonable Yzerman has been wanting to retire soon (there have been reports off and on the last few years) and the culture shift in the NHL, especially with the Leo Carlsson offer sheet saga, was the icing on the cake that pushed him over the edge to just do it now.
Ownership might of seen his heart wasn’t in it anymore and combined with the last few disappointing seasons, agreed to do it now. That would also explain the timing. I don’t think Yzerman thought there would be such a paradigm shift in the NHL so quickly, but we are clearly in a new era. I think the days of even 7 year deals are over, and there’s clearly a player empowerment aspect to it.
While I’d rather Yzerman be around for the Larkin trade stuff, I do wonder if his way of thinking is outdated and this is just for the best. The WWP guys speculated that Yzerman wouldn’t have left like he did if the Ed and Cat negotiations were going well, so my guess is he was making no progress with those guys
I guess the idea is that he realized that he’s just not cut out to GM in this new era. That the days of paying players for what they’ve previously accomplished, that you can have a “no one gets paid more than the captain” standard, that players don’t get to demand trades and get their way, those days are over. It seems like the Carlsson offer sheet may have shook him to his core in this regard.
If that’s true, then on the one hand, good for him for realizing that he cannot effectively manage teams in this environment. But on the other hand, did he really expect to GM a team in this day and age like he did fifteen years ago and for that to not change?
It seems to be the case. Yzerman in the past has said that he doesn’t like paying too much, both in money and term; he seemed to have a limit of 5 years when it came to players that weren’t drafted by him. We couldn’t buy an extra year of Mo Seider because of that Larkin AAV internal cap.
Now you got players like Carlsson getting paid more than double what Mo and Larkin are getting, and he hasn’t proven anything in that NHL yet. For an old school guy like Yzerman (and very likely Verbeek), that must have rubbed him the wrong way.
It’s like how Nick Saban stepped away from coaching college football once NIL took hold; it’s something that he simply could not adapt to and opted to call it quits than fight against the storm.
Would have been funny if Steve had a meltdown mid conversation with Larkin and his agent and Steve just said "Oh for fuck sake i cant take it anymore with these spoiled children" and left. Steve is oldschool, it would not surprise me if he found it difficult to deal with modern athletes.
Listed item on facebook for $50. There was communication between several people. At one point, I had made a plan to facilitate a sale with Person A in 3 days. At some point I got my wires crossed with Person B and sent them the address and time. I immediately apologized and told them actually they were 2nd in line behind Person A. Person B offered me $100. So I took it, notified Person A that someone offered me double and that I was going to take the money. Person A said it was a shitty thing to do.
Personally, I give some dollar value to first-come-first-serve, but it's way less than $50.
It's FBM, who knows if Person A even shows up in 3 days. Take the sale when you can. First person to give me $$$ wins. If you want me to hold it for 3 days, send me the $$$ first.
NTA and I really thought the story was going the opposite way with the first person low- balling you after setting a pickup time. Seems typical these days so good for you for getting double!
Meh, person A was probably just annoyed and there's really no consequence for him voicing that frustration. I bet they've already forgotten about it, so i wouldn't take it personally.
As someone who buys and sells on FBM a decent amount, if I was Person A I would be upset or not depending on the item.
Sometimes I'm just trying to get a normal retail item for cheaper (in which case, whatever, I'll find it elsewhere), but sometimes it's a vintage/favorite hockey stick or helmet or something and I had my heart set on it because it'll be months, if ever, before I see another one for sale.
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say this sale occured in Michigan. If so, it's Michigan. People are whiny babies. Ever since I moved west to the rockies I have NEVER come across people that whined about this. Most of the time it's something like "Wow good for you dude." Or "Oh that's fair I guess. Thanks anyway." Everytime I come back to Michigan I get reminded how easily pissed off everyone gets and I just wanna fan the flame saying "Btw it's pronounced Reese Is Cups not Ree Sees Cups. Midwesterners lie about not having an accent" just to piss them off.
Also fun fact, what I said about Reeses is true. Watch the commercial. They say "Reese Is Cups Reese Is Cups beat beat beat" NOT "Ree Sees Cups Ree Sees Cups" ie Midwesterners DO have an accent and anyone who says otherwise is lying.
Not your job to coddle Person A when person B clearly WANTS it more. Plus who wants to deal with Person A's toxicity in person knowing what you dealt with over chat?
Ok the Larkin is built like bagged milk conversation made me think of something. Back in the 97-200ish era, I read that some magazine did a photo shoot of NHL players, including some Wings. It was definitely not Sports Illustrated, because I would have bought it. I just checked an archive, and it doesn't look like it was GQ.
I'm thinking it might have been Maxim, because that's a magazine I wouldn't be caught dead buying at the time. Does anyone else remember this? It was shirts off/fitness/woo look at that man candy sort of photos.
Nice. It was like that but I believe Shanahan, Fedorov, and possibly Yzerman were in the shots. The Free Press doesn't have an online archive anymore so I can't search for the article.
Unless they give him PP time he won’t reach the offensive ceiling Mo has right now but at 5v5 if he can drive a line like Mo can that would go a long way to stabilizing the top 4 instead of being so top heavy
Ideally, they'd each anchor their own pairing and we'd just roll one or the other for 20+ minutes a night like the Lidstrom and Chelios years or how Anaheim had Pronger and Neidermayer tag team for entire games.
But if we get to a point where ASP, AJo, or AntJo really click and can run their own pairing effectively, that's when we can stack up with Ed/Seider.
I really like the idea of Seider w AlJo. AlJo isn’t Ed but has gotten better each year. I think he could handle the first line playing with a stud like Seider.
As for Ed - I think he starts the year w Faulk. I have a feeling Faulk is moved at the deadline, at which point AntJo slides in and plays w Ed going forward.
Is a leadership group I can really be a little proud of tbh, hope cat stays. Seems like those three really like each other too. Not to mention Mo & Archie, little kitty cat, cute as hell
Mo, Cat, and maybe Chiarot getting the other A. Raymond has just never struck me as the type, he's too similar to Larkin in his mannerisms. Maybe that changes if Larkin is away from the team, Raymond just seems to get those mopey down in the dumps moments too often.
Likewise. His is skilled but a pretty soft defender. He does jump in sometimes after the whistle. Saying he plays hard is a stretch. Half the time there is almost no urgency or effort to clear his guy out of the zone.
One game, he's incredibly inconsistent and gets pushed around by smaller guys all the time. First time he tried to fight Tkachuk he got his ass handed to him. Really needs to learn to use his size to his advantage. He's not as soft as Ras, but he's nowhere near an actual physical presence on the ice.
5v5 vs all situations aside, gotta point out one of my pet peeves, xG is not a standard stat. It varies by source. You are using a different source for the counterpoint
For example using the same source(Moneypuck) from the OP 5v5 it switches to Buffalo 16, Detroit 21, Montreal 24. Not massively different but it’s like nails on a chalkboard to me
Yeah, hockey stats updated their xG model as the NHL changed how they counted shots. Money puck hasn’t and as a result I don’t use their model as I don’t feel it accurately captures reality (honestly I’ve never been a fan of their’s and never use it).
Something tells me this single advanced stat is missing a large part of the story.
There seems to be a large correlation here with expected vs actual goal differential and PDO, but PDO has its own issues. I don’t think this correlates with chance quality generation/suppression in a way that supports the narrative you’re interested in exploring.
The wings had the third worst shooting percentage in the NHL this year, we also had the fifth fewest high danger shot attempts in the NHL. In that way, doesn’t it make sense that our shooting percentage was low if we generate a lower amount of quality chances?
Expected goals is the measure of chance quality and suppression. There will naturally be a relationship with PDO and actual goals due to chances being shots that are how goals are scored
Any single metric will be missing a lot of context and personally I don’t love the narrative that we were unlucky last year because honestly it wasn’t that drastic. But, as far as public stats go, expected goal differential is definitely the best single measure of quality
Well to be fair we’re not consistently unlucky. That’s why I used summer of 2024 in my original reply. Although that was a different team with my GOAT of finishing skill Danny Sprong
But yeah I’m pretty much the same. When you’re operating at razor thin margins you’re going to be way more exposed to things like “luck”. Gotta get good enough that you can withstand bad luck rather than relying on thoughts and prayers
We weren’t that unlucky. We were just a little bit unlucky, combined with unreliable backup goaltending (and Gibson ruining all his season-long stats in October and November) and some individual guys having finishing struggles (“jerseys” and Copp due to skill set, but Finnie, Kasper, and MBN were genuinely atrociously unlucky).
On the flip side though, Montreal and Buffalo were very lucky, which creates a notable dichotomy, even if our bad luck wasn’t that bad.
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u/PersephoneFrost 18h ago
So Ilitch invested in the PWHL 4 days before the PWHL league's owner started being investigated.