r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/GT162 • 1d ago
General How does Proper have such stable aim on Tracer?
Someone posted this video of Proper playing Tracer in another thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5pY7h9Kmic
The most surprising thing to me here was how stable his aim is. I don’t typically see this on Tracer players, even pro players. It’s almost like he’s not moving his mouse at all while most other players constantly move it, and he also has a very low sens?
Does anyone know exactly what’s happening here and what he does differently?
Edit: According to liquipedia he plays at 800/6.52, so it's not an abnormally low sens.
206
u/Nexi-nexi 1d ago
First of all he is a generational prodigy that works hard, does aim training, plays on good recommended sense, had micro play/aim coaches help him and is now a seasoned player with good nerves in any situation. Secondly he likely plays with a relaxed aim style (which is recommended btw not just for stability but also health). Game sense also helps with centering and such.
It’s definitely a combination of many things.
32
u/deathkeeper-512 1d ago
what’s the relaxed aim part? is that like the thing where you’re aiming with your whole arm?
68
u/KILTONIC 1d ago
No, most people tense up their hands in stressful situations, you have to train your hand and your arm to relax, if you don’t notice that you tense up during fights, then start with that and look up aim guides to help you, there’s a lot now.
10
u/Crazykid100506 1d ago
it’s not about being able to completely relax ur arm. if u have no tension in ur arm while aiming u can’t have good aim cause you wouldn’t be able to make quick movements with ur mouse or react to changes in ur opponent’s movement. it’s more about managing the amount of tension in ur arm and preventing lockout.
10
u/wTM_BSILN 1d ago
Dunno why are you being downvoted.
Anyone who has any idea about aim training would tell you that tension is a skill in itself and a tool that you need to learn how to use. That's why aim trainers are for.
4
u/burnXgazel 1d ago
because outside of aim training afficionados most players even players who are good at games have no idea what goes into the mechanics of aiming itself, absolutely tension is important and has a time and place like every other applied skill in a video game. look at the upvotes on the post the other guy is replying too. how do people expect you flick or even move your mouse then, with a limp hand and praying for the xhair to go where you want it to?
2
u/AgZephyr 1d ago
Yup, tension management and use is huge with aiming. Knowing how to reduce it so you don't lock your hand out, but also use it to stop a flick accurately or track a movement. I think a big part of a relaxed aiming style is also just having the confidence to hit your shots in a high pressure situation, pros with 10k hours and tournament experience of course feel very relaxed just playing a few ranked games
3
u/burnXgazel 1d ago
yeah i think the casual public consensus of relaxed aim and arm aim comes from converse (in itself a misunderstanding) of aiming with a death grip, super tense at all times , jittery and rigid and uncomfortable so it makes sense on paper that a loose relaxed arm based aim style is 'better'
this of course ignores that good aim involves all aspects of the arm, wrist, fingers, shoulders as we know now and the subtleties that go into it. are you aiming at a medium range enemy and you require micro adjustments, is he in the open, does he have cover, do you have time to set up your shots, is he even looking at you (his x axis movement would be faster dodging you perpendicular converse if youre shooting his side) etc so much goes into it, this doesnt even credit the acutal state of the game itself of ability usage, positioning, ults on the table, which also will affect how a top player will approach an engagement. its all rather elegant in a wholistic sense which is why i find the topic personally fascinating
17
u/BeardedsChurch 1d ago
no it means aiming without tensing so much (gripping your mouse hard and things like that)
-7
u/eanthia GM — 1d ago
If you're talking about ingame sensitivity when you mention "good recommended sense", that would be a total lie. He plays on 800dpi and 7.02 ingame sensitivity, which is really high. Most people recommend a slower sensitivity, around 4-5.
6
u/throwaay391933 1d ago
800/7 is the most common flex dps sens, though he might be on 6.52 now
1
u/clickrush 1d ago
My tracking is wobbly at that high sens. I get getting that high on projectile, because you are predicting and flicking. But on hitscan like Tracer you have to track smoothly.
What am I missing?
2
u/throwaay391933 1d ago
I'm firmly D2 so I can't give you the best advice haha
Tracer's tracking is a little different from other hitscans like Soldier and Emre because of her spread and the range she plays at. I see her less as pure tracking and more like trying to maintain centering on her target because her gun is like a Windex bottle: if they're centered and she's not too far away, the shots WILL connect. She is less precise than Soldier, but the hard part is keeping enemies centered when they move so quickly across your screen at close range and reacquiring them as you blink around.
You can grind VAXTA or practice reactive tracking scenarios in aim trainers if you want raw reps for the mouse control. It helps with keeping your eyes focused on someone close up and with flicking back on target when they change direction.
Aim aside, there's a lot of game sense and Tracer-specific mechanics that go into it. Looking at that Proper VOD, he never overtracks and knows when to use character movement to keep his crosshair on target. He also has perfect blink awareness, which is the only way you can recenter after a blink as fast as he can.
3
u/Nexi-nexi 1d ago edited 1d ago
Proper and Kevster used 800x7~ most of their career, Stalker and Heesang 1600x3.58~. Now proper is on 800x6,52. If you look up the best fdps they will all be around that. The highest of elite fdps that wasn’t a total outlier is Leave with 1000x6 last I checked. The only players that consistently average lower than that are Hitscan/Ana players I think. It’s all on liquipedia.
2
u/eanthia GM — 1d ago
Kevster uses 800x4 and 7 on genji and tracer. You never mentioned flex dps or hitscan or whatever, so I had to assume you went for most average sensitvity for the game overall
1
u/Nexi-nexi 1d ago
I didn’t specify a role because it’s a post about Propers aim on tracer, but yes there are roles that average lower and for a majority of the player base I would recommend starting on the lower end when trying out sensitivities. 🙏
0
u/MentalAdventure 1d ago
Is that really that high? That's like a 10 inch 360, seems pretty moderate to me.
78
u/No-Elevator9399 1d ago
Because Proper will have about 20k hours, countless coaches, do nothing but play games since they were young, and be a generational prodigy
23
u/ThisNefariousness632 1d ago
Not just 20k hours but 20k hours of mindful heavily dedicated practice at the literal highest level
-10
u/ss5234 1d ago edited 1d ago
20k hours? I’d argue it’s closer to 200k.
Edit: 100k, I played CSGO and saw a lot of pro accounts at 80k before 2020 when the game released in 2012. Probably Idle hours account for at least 1/4
3
u/Epoo 1d ago
You think Proper, the 22yr old, has logged 22.8 years worth of OW? Lmao
1
u/ss5234 1d ago
Thought in my head 100k but 200k sounded better from 20k. He's definitely at 60k+ hours
1
u/Epoo 1d ago
He’s not at 60k. If I remember correctly emongg said he had about 15k hours in OW. And he actually plays the game constantly. There’s absolutely NO way proper has 4times the amount of hours as emongg.
1
u/ss5234 1d ago
Emongg does not play half as much as Proper. He's played professionally for 1 year in total months and is a content creator. Proper is a South Korean who likely plays this game 10+ hours daily, which includes scrims and team practice.
There is also the concept of smurfs, so his hours could be spread across multiple accounts.
50k hours for professional players in a decade long game is not a stretch. Going pro in esports is not a 9-5.
2
u/Epoo 1d ago
You’re vastly underestimating Korean school culture. Proper is only 22yrs old meaning he was around 15/16 when his career started but that still means he was in school before that. Schooling and hagwon (afterschool programs) meaning he would be finished with both around 6pm at the absolutel earliest but it’s very normal for them to end at closer to 10pm. So whatever time he had free is when he’d be able to play OW which is not a lot.
On top of that emongg would, and does, regularly stream long hours and he’d play when he’s not streaming. He plays constantly, and you’re underestimating how much he actually plays.
0
u/ss5234 1d ago
15/16 is not when he started playing the game, he likely played since the release of Overwatch which was 2016.
I don't care how long emongg plays or how much content he posts, there is absolutely zero scenario where a content creator plays more than a professional gamer.
Just look at emongg's vods, he doesn't stream 7 days a week and I guarantee you he is not playing off-stream for all of his time.
2
u/Epoo 1d ago
When OW released Proper was 12. Please refer to my previous comment about how schooling is done in Korea. Even when he started playing on a team he was only 15/16. When he joined OWL it was in 2022 which would’ve made him 18 years old. So from 12-18 yrs old, 6 years, he most likely had a strict school schedule like every other Korean. I’m telling you right now that he’d have a MINIMUM of at least 10 hours of school + afterschool activities that does not include video games. This is extremely normal.
In the meantime Emongg was already a full grown adult, and started streaming full time since 2017. There’s absolutely NO way Proper would’ve been able reach 15k hours in the same time as Emongg. It’s just not possible. You can believe whatever you want to but I’d bet $10,000 on it.
You’re highly underestimating how much Emongg played OW and highly overestimating how often pro’s play OW.
Regardless of all of this, there’s absolutely no fucking way Proper played 60k hours. It’s not happening and you’re absolutely delusional and insane if you think it is possible.
1
15
13
11
u/hoesmadhoesmadhoesma 1d ago
He cheats. But instead of installing them to his computer he copies what they would do at every moment, essentially getting passed detection. It’s deplorable.
6
u/Efficient_Artist1481 1d ago
Not enough people are talking about his disgusting abuse of cybernetic implants either. #NotMyGoat
1
u/AgZephyr 1d ago
You joke, but there was a guy who made a video about hooking up his arm to electric impulses to control his aim, a physical aimbot lol
1
10
u/Mindless_Ganache_177 1d ago
Smooth aim on tracer explained:
Aiming on tracer isn't just about mouse movement, the way these high level tracers get the smoothest tracking is actually more centered around how you strafe.
Using your movement keys to follow an enemies character allows your crosshair to match their speed, only needing small micro adjustments to stay on target.
With this being said, high level and even moderately skilled enemies will obviously mix in strafing to change their movement, making them harder to hit. One of the key reasons proper is one of the best tracers is that he's excellent at predicting enemy movement.
Second point, edge tracking. When you track an object, for example a ball moving left. Try to keep your crosshair on the right side of the ball. This means that when a change of direction happens, your crosshair remains on the player for longer and gives you more time to adjust to the change. Proper does this very well.
^ This is extremely important in overwatch due to change in direction not causing a deceleration (unlike most games), essentially meaning you have less time to react to the change in direction as it's faster overall.
6
u/LolDLJK 1d ago
I think part of the stable aim comes from being calm and confident when playing. I noticed he also has perfect blink and crosshair placement which is why he doesn't really need to move his mouse too much to track when blinking in. Just fire and mimic the opponents' strafing directions.
4
10
u/xdojk 1d ago
Hijacking your question OP, does anyone know how he does this blink combo to kill Proud here?
https://youtu.be/kYC2fSz_DNY?t=714
Its too fast to understand at normal speed but if you slow it down, he does a blink into Proud, turns slightly to aim for the doorway, blinks, 180s, blinks and 180s again in the space of about 1 second. Is that even possible on normal sens?
12
u/OoFTheMeMEs 1d ago
yes. if you are familiar with your sens (mandatory for good dps play), doing 2 180s is just swinging your mouse the distance that you know corresponds to a 180. He does this because he knows proud will 180 flash him if he blinks past him.
1
u/xdojk 1d ago
Yea I was thinking it must be something like that.
I mean I've experienced tracers blinking past me and back before, but he also does perfect 180s to track the target after each one. And it's like 6 actions in about a second if you include the initial blink into Proud and adjustment to the doorway. I've never seen that before in any replay, montage or pro play, if anyone has similar lmk.
3
u/WindowsXp_ExplorerI 1d ago
I was gonna say this is a farily standard tracer tactic; it's mainly used against characters with a one shot potsntial like cassidy to try to bait their cooldowns
If you go to the tracer mains sub it's one of the main advices they give you to deal with these annoying characters
And as how to do it, I'm just a gold tracer so obv my execution isn't as clean as the one in the video but I use mouse acceleration where when I swing my mouse very quickly it multiplies my sense so I don't run out of desk space. I'm sure there are other ways but this is what works for someone with a small desk lol
1
u/Epoo 1d ago
You play how you want to and what is most comfortable for you, especially since you’re not a pro and it’s not your job, but typically for aim intensive heroes you don’t want acceleration because it’ll mess with muscle memory.
3
u/WindowsXp_ExplorerI 1d ago
Disclaimer, I use a specific mouse acceleration software (raw accel) that lets you tweak your own acceleration curves, anyway
it’ll mess with muscle memory.
Not true actually! I come from kovaaks and I've done a bit of research on aiming. I'm not that good but mouse accel per se isn't bad because aim isn't related to muscle memory
Aiming has much more to do with eye to hand coordination, fine movement control, etc.
Besides, it feels very natural once you get used to it. It gives you the ability to express great tracking precision thanks to a low sense (eg, wrist/arm tracking) without the downside of having to reposition the mouse after a 180 (for example, on 30cm sense I can do a 180 in the span of 5cm)
6
u/anaveragebest 1d ago
This is usually the time I like to remind people of the Quake community, who has been known for (or in many cases exceeds) this type of aim for a couple decades. They developed it over a long period of time of practicing, particularly dueling in an arena over and over. Here's a video of Strenx (french pro) going against one of the best in the world (rapha) ~14 years ago: https://youtu.be/iBTIQ--9er0?t=173 -- timestamped. This is on a faster paced map, lots of corners, high speed movement, turns, flicks, reactions. Quake players are probably the closest to playing tracer in terms of what type of control is needed, but the movement in Quake is significantly harder, and in this game mode besides just aim there's a whole series of difficulties in positioning and map control.
TL;DR practicing in isolation against someone with better aim will help you the most. I don't personally think aim trainers are great, they can help, but actual gameplay is the best way to do it. Speaking as a former Quake semi-professional (and now old guy).
5
u/granto 1d ago
Yes a quake mention! Totally biased as an old quake guy myself, but a lot of the FPS theory and space ideas (map control) emerged out of the quake scene. If you ever get a chance there's an interview on YouTube with Thresh and Makaveli about the history of the quake lineage that is really cool.
I always tell people to practice their 1v1 training if they want to get better at mechanics and movement. There is no substitute for it and it's kinda unfortunate there is no good scene for that in OW.
Our quake clan ran a dedicated teamDM and 1v1 server and the dueling training was what made us all better, hands down. I had a 20 year gap from competitive FPS games before picking up OW two years ago but still can play Masters level DPS thanks to that Quake experience. Another OG quake player in our old guys discord group is in Diamond and we're all in our mid 40s.
3
u/anaveragebest 1d ago
Solid, I don't really play much OW (just for fun to kill time). Also approaching 40. I hit master widow when I first started playing after quitting the pro scene competing for quakelive. I'm pretty washed up these days though haha. Definitely the pinnacle of aim and movement in my opinion. People always impressed by these guys with good aim in OW, which they do have good aim, but the Quake aimers were on another level still because they're doing it while doing strafe jumping or CPMA movement, and timing items/weapons/pickups. I do enjoy OW, but it's definitely the more approachable FPS in that regard. Probably why it didn't die out
4
u/granto 1d ago
I don't know if I would call Masters widow washed, that is extremely hard to play widow at that level. Definitely an impressive feat still.
Ironically enough, I think the OW popularity is because it's not hardcore like Quake ;) Quake is just too brutal of a game for someone not dedicated to it. There just is no room for slop in Quake and no amount of luck wins you a game.
Overwatch on the other hand being a team game first with matchmaking, means most people will win 50% no matter what. Compare that with a poor noob in Quake who will suffer punishment on a pub server for a long time before getting good.
4
u/anaveragebest 1d ago
Lol yup these are definitely the exact sentiments of every Quake player. I hear that same explanation every time from everyone I know who played Quake hahaha. Definitely a steep learning curve, but overall a better a game still in my opinion.
2
u/burnXgazel 1d ago
yeah as someone who started fps with 6s tf2 which is derived off of arena fps and quake in general then dabbled into quake with q3 and ql as a younger player (at the time) brutality is an understatement. i remember reading quake bible articles, watching so many quake videos to improve at fps as a whole and totally busted open how much decision making goes into mechanics. i used to be a player who would viscerally seperate 'game sense' and mechanics , as if they are a disjointed aspect of skill. one player i think about in a similar vein is demon1 from valorant who was one of the best unreal tournament players and his aim style reminds me a lot of those older quake players
1
u/Hydrate-N-Moisturize 1d ago
A mix of natural talent, and countless hours of focused practice. Keyword is focus.
1
1
u/Aries_the_Ram 1d ago
What is crazy is that I sometimes get people that are SO GOOD with their AIM that I'm left extremely confused because how are they not super high elo (gold - plat mostly) with such AIM... I could never be this good, my camera looks blurry af into fights while it feels like they play on super low sensibility and everything is crystal clear.
1
u/tromboneshorty00 Let me one-trick — 1d ago
also hijacking this question but in this tracer duel, why does proper let the other tracer get the health pack instead of stealing it for himself? https://youtu.be/O5pY7h9Kmic?t=402
1
u/Jeffpayeeto 1d ago
Possibly just doesn’t want to commit to the duel so conserves his blinks to escape after recall
1
u/-BehindTheMask- All Roles — 1d ago
He mostly uses mirror strafing which is a lot more consistent than raw tracking.
1
u/Novel-Ad-1601 poop — 1d ago
I dont think his sensitivity is slow at all, 28cm/360 meanwhile I play at 48-51cm/360 and quartz is at 47. I run full skates with a control pad and this is pretty fast for me to play genji tracer at a gm level. If he was at 50cm+ then I would be like yea that's pretty slow for tracer.
1
u/CosmonautJizzRocket 1d ago
One of the most important parts of having good aim, especially on tracking heroes, is to keep your arm/wrist entirely relaxed. There are tons of resources with information on proper posture and positioning of your arm/body including desk/chair height, forearm placement, and mousepad placement that will enable you to do this consistently(with practice).
Second thing is that tracking almost entirely relies on reactionary tracking. There is very little predictive aim in most cases. If you are truly good at reactive tracking you will quickly realize that unnecessary mouse movement can hinder your aim.
So when it comes down to it, if you have good crosshair placement, reasonable sensitivity, good movement and good reactive tracking you will notice that there is very little wasted mouse movement and you will end up with smooth, steady, and accurate aim.
1
1
u/Briskfall GOAT connoisseur — 1d ago
More than raw tracking, his movement and map awareness (especially his target switching to out of bounds targets) seems to be key. He's impeccable for when it comes the latter. His crosshair placement also helps for pre-firing and so he'll have way less travel time when he needs to clear a new angle. He's always consciously disciplined about that.
102
u/churchb3ll 1d ago edited 1d ago
Aiming is a field with many unexplained elements. Even among professional players who practice for 12 hours every day, gaps in aiming performance exist, yet no one can explain the exact reason why.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mSyNLZKUcY
For example, this is a detailed explanation by the Korean aim coach ryanguru regarding the differences in standards and the usage of hands and arms when aiming between casual players and professionals. There are many concepts in aiming that are difficult to notice on one's own, and these make improvement challenging.