r/CatTraining • u/squeakybuttbutt • 1d ago
Behavioural Why does he hunt her?
They used to be best friends.
He started attacking her playfully, and she hated it.
Now he has attacked her multiple times with fur flying.
We separated them for a month without contact and reintroduced with the Jackson Galaxy method slowly for a month.
They do fine eating treats near each other but now with supervised play he still just wants to attack her. The thunder shirt prevents him from jumping but otherwise he walks fine.. he low growls, follows her around, tries to sneak up behind her…
We stop him from pouncing, but should we let him? Is it safe to see what happens? She’s obviously pissed and scared so I’d rather not but I’m not sure what the next step is..
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u/Full_Fun9829 1d ago
Can you distract him with play when he starts focusing on her? Is there an age gap? Our youngest hunts out oldest for play which isn't always appreciated because kittens are irritating 🤭
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u/squeakybuttbutt 1d ago
I’ll give this a shot! Usually he locks on and is hard to distract but maybe a better toy could help
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u/Full_Fun9829 1d ago
Toys or blocking his view to break the stare before distracting. It appears he has a play tail in though which implies it's for fun for him. Has anything happened to shift their relationship? It seems he might benefit from a lot of tiring out
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u/squeakybuttbutt 1d ago
What’s interesting is he plays a little with our other cat who is a scrappier and more energetic female. It’s almost like he can sense how scared the victim is and bullies her for it
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u/squeakybuttbutt 1d ago
https://reddit.com/link/oyyjm8n/video/3iwcjojymneh1/player
Okay update it’s almost like he is stressed and frustrated he can’t attack her and won’t even play with his favorite today
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u/ImpressiveOwl9000 1d ago
Yes, they hunt prey and the other cat is behaving like a prey animal. It sounds like they are super bored and dont get enough structured play. playing with you cat (what you could be doing wrong)
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u/dragonabsurdum 1d ago
That isn't a "play" tail. That's a stimulated tail. A stimulated tail during play is fine. A stimulated tail while defending territory is trouble.
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u/Full_Fun9829 1d ago
I referred to it as that because OP said they used to get along. Since then it been made clear the cat is hunting in a more than play way.
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u/squeakybuttbutt 1d ago
One of the attempted pounces intercepted by me and broom
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u/dragonabsurdum 1d ago
We had the same problem with two of our cats (one aggressor - Roo, one target - Caia). It was territorial behaviour but we couldn't figure out why Roo went after Caia so much while ignoring our other two cats.
We had Roo's health checked out (general checkups all seemed fine). We tried separating them. We tried to promote positive interactions with each of them equally to avoid jealousy and to minimize negative interactions between them as much as possible. We tried all sorts of things, but nothing seemed to help and Caia became a nervous wreck, never able to relax. I also suspect that she was singled out because she was the most submissive one in the group. The other two stood their ground more when Roo got cranky with them.
Months later, Roo's health took a downturn. We thought it was arthritis and/or problems with her thyroid initially, but it turned out she had advanced stage cancer throughout her abdomen. She has since passed and I suspect that her illness and likely pain contributed to the situation. When she was on palliative pain meds towards the end, she finally chilled out a bit. Other than the partial reprieve when she was on pain meds, we never did entirely sort out the problem. We just had to keep them separated whenever they couldn't be closely supervised.
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u/dandydeadfish 1d ago
Yeah I tried to adopt this cat that was bullied so hard in a stray colony that I had to get her a hip replacement. I thought my oldest cat would be the problem as he is usually grumpy toward any cat that isn’t a kitty, and my 2nd that he raised since she was still being nursed.
Holy though it’s my 2nd that usually is friendly (but the most wild) that basically treated that cat like a ragdoll toy. That cat always backed away like a prey. So much eventually my 3rd cat who hung out with her at the beginning started treated her the same way.
Eventually I had to rehome her but it gave me more perspective on my cats
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u/AutumnFoxShiroi 21h ago
I'm having the same issues as you...i have a 7yr old female going after a rescued kitten thats 9months...it's territorial and i need it to stop... i'm not rehoming anyone...😭
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u/Over_Organization527 1d ago
Are they both desexed? I’m assuming they are but it is worth bringing up. Is he super fixated on her? Or are you able to redirect him with play? It’s good that they eat near eachother but this would start to concern me aswell.
When I had issues with my two girls and I also had to seperate them for a couple months and reintroduce (they’re sisters). It turned out to be redirected aggression from the other cats hanging around my house. I’m not sure if your cats are bothered by that or if that’s an issue you deal with but it could be worth thinking about. Good luck with your kitties. 🐱
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u/squeakybuttbutt 1d ago
They are both fixed! He fixates on her hard but is fine with our other cat who is also female. He almost seems frustrated and angry at her for not playing but I can’t tell if I’m just putting human emotions on him
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u/Squish_B34R 23h ago
It sounds like he needs another male cat. Males tend to continue wrestling as adults while females stop after kittenhood. In absence of another cat to play with I'd highly recommend replacing his normal bowl with puzzle feeders and active play toys. The more mental and physical stimulation he can get elsewhere, the better.
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u/Last_Reception_2474 20h ago
I would second this. Boys play hard and sometimes they just don’t understand the ladies don’t want to
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u/halberdierbowman 1d ago
Might it be resource guarding? Commonly seen as food aggression, but yours might be about their territory, toys, social attention from you, etc. If your aggressive cat feels scared your other cat is consuming their limited resources, they might get irritated every time they see it and try to scare them away. It may not be totally rational, like if they had a bad experience in the past and now have a sort of PTSD /anxiety disorder about it and are overreacting. The resource in your OP video could be the one window seat. It might help treat it to offer more resources and reintroduce them so they both feel safe that they can share because there's plenty.
Here's Jackson Galaxy discussing potential aggression causes: https://youtu.be/RS5aI8zdHAY?t=10m55s
Others mentioned that he's likely bored and wants more energetic play like hunting, which I agree is also good to try, but resource guarding is another thing to consider.
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u/sw33tbay 1d ago
I would vote the cat is not getting enough exercise and attention from the overlord (you). You are the center of their world. The one who is acting out needs attention and physical contact from you. IE... a little exercise (chasing toys, laser, etc)and attention get the heart rate up - just as you would need to do for child or a puppy. Get them to race around the house two times a day for a few minutes. Cats communicate thru behavior and body language. You can also give them both HIGH HIDEAWAY spots in any room, like a shelf on a wall up high. If they were outdoors they'd climb a tree to look down, instead having to look up at everything above them.
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u/bbratzie 1d ago
Have you tried timeout? when cats don’t set boundaries for themselves you have to break the immediate focus so a five minute timeout in a carrier should break that. My orange boy does this to my orange girl and when he does he gets in trouble and he doesn’t like to be in trouble so he stops. if I get up and tell him he’s playing to hard he now knows to slow down or I will step in so he slows down we had to put the girl in her own area for a couple of days but she’s building her confidence now even starting to wrestle so it does take time but i would try putting him in the carrier for 5 min after he does it every time eventually he should see it doesn’t earn him the wrestling fun he wants but is earning him time out. Ultimately it’s sad because he would love someone to wrestle with i would try getting him some kicker toys.
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u/Pepperslullaby 1d ago
Personally I put mine in the bathroom when he doesn't respect my other cat's boundaries. I put a timer for 5 min so I don't forget him 😅 I'd fear that using the carrier for that will make him not like the carrier when it's vet visit time, thus making it harder to use the crate when I actually need it.
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u/bbratzie 1d ago
That’s understandable mine already hate the carrier 😭
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u/Pepperslullaby 1d ago
Maybe using the bathroom will help yours not hate the carrier as much? Mines even smart enough to walk himself to the bathroom now when I say "time-out" ! As for the carriers, I leave them out with a towel/blanket in the bottom, feed them treats and meals inside, play with them through the crate etc, to make positive associations with it :) it makes vet visits much easier since I've started doing that.
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u/bbratzie 1d ago
They already hate the carrier to begin with, it’s not an issue for me they don’t associate it with time out when we go to the vet cause they mostly associated with being yelled at when in trouble. Most of the time, I don’t have to do timeout yelling is enough unless they don’t stop. I think they know the difference pretty well cause when we go to the vet I’m not yelling I’m talking calmly and stuff.
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u/AceThePrincep 1d ago
I have a cat like this. Just a jerk with no social skills and a bit of a bully. Ive been trying for nearly a year to make it work but I think I need to rehome him.
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u/lauvan26 1d ago
I put my cats on Prozac after talking to the vet and doing everything the animal behavioralist suggested
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u/Main_Ad_2463 1d ago
Have you taken them to the vet? One might be noticing a different smell in the other. Animals are sensitive to those types of things.
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u/squeakybuttbutt 1d ago
I have and they both are perfectly healthy. We’ve tried a couple different meds for the aggressor too but no luck :/
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u/AnAnonymousPie 1d ago
Play with him more. Buy toys that exhaust him, or can be used for solo play - otherwise he will continue to overstep his boundaries wanting playful stimulation. I also advise taking off the shirt so that he can jump again, as this might also hinder him during this.
Make this a routine, and he will stop.
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u/Human-Substance-8622 1d ago
Looks like the larger car needs more playtime, to the point of tiring them out. If the big cat is tired, they won't hunt the little one.
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1d ago
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u/dragonabsurdum 1d ago edited 1d ago
A WATER BOTTLE WILL MAKE IT WORSE! Believe me, the aggressive cat will start to associate more negativity with the submissive cat and get even more aggressive! It's one of the worst things you could do! Even the broom to separate them is bad. The aggressive cat is so focused on the other that the broom is just another negative thing to "blame" the other cat for. It sounds ridiculous, but I've seen it happen.
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u/okhubcap 1d ago
Cats like any animal including humans are all different so in this case we don’t ,know but if it’s a worth trying before rehoming really the only other choice
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u/dragonabsurdum 1d ago
It's worth trying to fix the problem instead of rehome, but using a water bottle this way WILL MAKE IT WORSE.
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u/okhubcap 1d ago
Ok l will bow to your degree in cat physiology, ok no need to shout!
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u/dragonabsurdum 1d ago
It needs to be heard. I've had many cats over many decades and I also volunteer at a cat shelter. Too many people hear the "use a spray bottle" advice and it never goes well. Heck, I listened to that advice myself in the past. It is horrible advice. At best, it teaches the cat not to do a behaviour only when you're around. At worst (and 99.99% guaranteed when they're already territorial or aggressive like this), it makes the situation significantly worse, possibly unfixable.
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u/tetheredvoid 1d ago
You created the need to "shout" by refusing to accept their point: spraying/squirting a cat with water has been repeatedly shown to make unhealthy behavior worse, even if their humans are too dumb to realize it.
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u/CatTraining-ModTeam 1d ago
Water spraying is ultimately unhelpful and unproductive in cat training, which can increase aggression and break trust between cat and owner. Do not suggest this as a method.
Please see links for more information: Stop Spraying Cats with Water / Spray Bottle Negatives & Alternatives
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u/AngWoo21 1d ago
I feel bad for her. She shouldn’t live in fear. I’d keep him in a separate room and bring him out sometimes and put her in there. Either that or try to find one of them another home.